Why Did It Go Down That Way

[BlackWall]

I'm sure just that about everyone who comes to this forum will agree that these guys are really tight and can craft one hell of a pop song; so, what happened? Why was the success so limited for this band in the U.S.?

Why wasn't "I'll Supply The Love", the follow up to "Hold The Line" a big smash?

I can almost understand why their second album, "Hydra" wasn't a huge success(people probably didn't get the concept), but honestly, I think "Turn Back" should have launched them into superstardom.

Even on an album as big as "Toto IV", "Make Believe", the single that followed "Rosanna", only made the bottom half of the top 40; why does it seem like the band was only allowed to have a minimal level of success?

Wasn't "Isolation" just as good, if not better than "Toto IV"; was it the lack of Bobby? The fact that they changed lead singers several times after him? The choice of singles? How did "How Does It Feel", "Till The End", and "Anna" not even crack the hot 100?

Does anyone have any theories?

[Toto_fan]

Well Fucking SONY!!!

you why the hell didn't Sony realese Stop loving you in the Us I mean it was one of the biggest hits in Europe and Japan in 1988 and I'm sure it would have been a big hit in the us to.

I can agree with it's very strange becouse its not that they don't have any good pop/rock songs that easilay be hits its something else and I'm sure its sonys foult!

[jrnyman28]

I would be willing to bet that the record label thought it was very difficult to promote a band like Toto in the video age without a consistant frontman/voice.

[brandonx76]

I would be willing to bet that the record label thought it was very difficult to promote a band like Toto in the video age without a consistant frontman/voice.

That could've been it...I think they tried really hard with The Seventh One to recreate Toto 4. Great songs on that record. Someone mentioned "Turn Back", what a dirty record!! hahaha...ahh well, Geoff Workman, didn't he produce that? I dunno, some cool rock tunes, but nothing that stood out as commercial. I'm no critic though...the band could piss on something and I would have dug it...lol

- Brandon

[BlackWall]

I agree that "Turn Back" wasn't the most commercial album, but some of those songs deserved to be hits: "Live For Today", "Goodbye Elenore", and maybe even "Gift With A Golden Gun". "Goodbye Elenore" is extremely catchy; the only possible thing working against it might have actually been the name "Elenore". "Gift With A Golden Gun" just screams top 40 radio to me, but I don't believe it was even released as a single. "English Eyes", while not really top 40 material, deserved to be a staple on rock radio.

If this album would have come before "Hydra", I bet there would have been some hits here.

"The Seventh One" is good, but I will admit, the band loses me a little after "Isolation".. I still think they deserved better than they got, and could write a quality pop song, but I liked the more rockin', funky sound of the first five albums.

[WalrusOct9]

I'm sure just that about everyone who comes to this forum will agree that these guys are really tight and can craft one hell of a pop song; so, what happened? Why was the success so limited for this band in the U.S.?

Why wasn't "I'll Supply The Love", the follow up to "Hold The Line" a big smash?

Because it's not as good of a song? I like the first album, but I think HTL was the only real solid single on it...

I can almost understand why their second album, "Hydra" wasn't a huge success(people probably didn't get the concept), but honestly, I think "Turn Back" should have launched them into superstardom.

On this I agree...it's my 2nd favorite album behind The Seventh One. On the other hand, I also don't think it had any really outstanding singles either...instead it was a collection of very consistently solid album tracks: "Goodbye Eleanor," "Million Miles Away," "English Eyes". Unfortunately by 1981 it was a singles enviornment, in contrast to the FM radio world that launched ELP and Yes to stadiums without singles.

Even on an album as big as "Toto IV", "Make Believe", the single that followed "Rosanna", only made the bottom half of the top 40; why does it seem like the band was only allowed to have a minimal level of success?

I'm confused..."Africa" was even bigger than "Rosanna," and "I Won't Hold You Back" was pretty successful too.

Wasn't "Isolation" just as good, if not better than "Toto IV"

No.

was it the lack of Bobby? The fact that they changed lead singers several times after him? The choice of singles? How did "How Does It Feel", "Till The End", and "Anna" not even crack the hot 100?

I do think part of Toto's problem in the U.S. was that they didn't fit into the superficial MTV era beyond "Rosanna" and "Africa." They didn't have a sound like Journey, Van Halen, Boston, or Duran Duran...all of which I love, but each of those bands had a very distinctive sound and very set boundaries on what their songs were going to sound like. Also, each of those bands had a very identifiable lead singer...a Perry or Delp was part of their bands' sound, so much that the second they opened their mouths, you knew who the band was even if you'd never heard the song. Sure, there were slow songs and fast songs, but face it, save for the extreme cheese of "Open Arms," Journey was Journey, and you knew exactly what that meant.

Toto was an entirely different beast, right from the first album...were they hard rock ("Goodbye Girl"), cheesy white-boy R&B ("Georgy Porgy"), pseudo pop-disco ("I'll Supply The Love"), pretentious art rockers ("Child's Anthem"), or balladeers ("Angela")?

Moreover, if you heard "Hold The Line" in 1978 and "99" on the radio a year later, you wouldn't know David Paich from a pile of dirt, so how would you know that this weird "99" song was the same band? I think "Rosanna" and "Africa" were just the right songs with the right videos at the right time, just before MTV became completely youth-oriented and gave up on a lot of bands who didn't look like Bon Jovi or Duran Duran (no offense, I'm a fan of all of them, but the guys in Toto don't exactly look like Simon LeBon). But you basically had a different singer on every song, sometimes two leads in the same song...then Isolation comes out and there's another guy suddenly singing, with a huge mullet to boot. And then "Stranger In Town" was picked as the single, a song which sounded nothing like the hits from Toto IV, followed by two other relatively weak singles ("Hollyanna" and "Angel Don't Cry")...it just wasn't that strong of an album compared to what came before it. ("Endless" and the title song excepting...why weren't those singles?)

I do have a hunch that had Bobby still been in the band for that record, that "Endless" or "Isolation" would've been the first single, both strong rock tracks with big choruses that also would've potentially reinforced the idea of Toto as a rock band vs. the ballads and softer songs that got radio play. I wonder if the decision was made to go with "Stranger In Town" because it had a Dave vocal, rather than a song with Fergie, who's voice would be unfamiliar to radio audiences.[/i]

[BlackWall]

"Because it's not as good of a song? I like the first album, but I think HTL was the only real solid single on it..."

Walrus, I'll give you the fact that "I'll Supply The Love" wasn't as good of a song, but singles aren't always the best songs on an album. For the late '70s, it just seems that "I'll Supply The Love" was a perfect radio song.


"I'm confused..."Africa" was even bigger than "Rosanna," and "I Won't Hold You Back" was pretty successful too."

True; I was just stating that I was surprised that the first single, after a hit as big as "Rosanna", failed to even crack the top 25..

I always thought the success of "Africa" was the reason that "Stranger In Town" was picked as the lead single for "Isolation". If the MTV audience could embrace Paich on "Africa", why not "Stranger In Town" and "Holyanna"? It's a matter of opinion whether "Stranger In Town" was a good song or not, but to me, it seems like it would have been a perfect hit for 1984; especially considering that it was released around Halloween.

The argument could have even been made that they didn't really need Bobby(I don't agree with this) since "Africa" was even a bigger success than "Rosanna". It actually looks like Columbia might have agreed with this argument, since Paich did get the first two singles off of "Isolation". I'm not even sure if there was a "Fergie" single released in the U.S.?? They gave Steve "How Does It Feel", probably hoping for another "I Won't Hold You Back". However, when none of these attempts really worked, it looks like Columbia(and probably the band), realized that a Bobby like vocalist was essential after all, and hired Joseph to help bring the band out of their slump..

[WalrusOct9]

No, the best song isn't always the single. But I think what makes something a great song is different than what makes something a great single. A great single is instantly memorable, and accessible to people who might not otherwise know or like a particular band. For example, "Owner Of a Lonely Heart" isn't the best Yes song, nor IMO is it even the best song on 90125, but man was it a great single. It's punchy, catchy, has a great chorus and a great guitar riff.

I always thought the success of "Africa" was the reason that "Stranger In Town" was picked as the lead single for "Isolation". If the MTV audience could embrace Paich on "Africa", why not "Stranger In Town" and "Holyanna"? It's a matter of opinion whether "Stranger In Town" was a good song or not, but to me, it seems like it would have been a perfect hit for 1984; especially considering that it was released around Halloween.

That may be true as well...I just think both of those songs were pretty weak compared to "Endless" and "Isolation." We'll never really know, both of us are just speculating and trying to understand the thought process of a record company exec who knows nothing about music.


I think the reason Fergie was fired was because of his inability to sing in the studio. (I know, weird right?) Luke has said in several interviews that they literally had to go line by line to get a lead vocal out of him. (I'm sure someone can find an interview where he talks about this)

[BlackWall]

I didn't realize that about "Fergie"; interesting..

I actually like him on the album: "Lion", the title track, and even "Angel Don't Cry" are all some of my faves. Was there any kind of tour to promote the ablum, and if so, was Fergie a part of it? If that's true about his vocals during the recording of the album, I don't see how he could have been part of a tour. He had a unique sound, but almost reminded me a little of Steve Perry; especially on "Angel Don't Cry".

[WalrusOct9]

Yes, there was a tour, I have a bootleg from it.

I know, it sounds ridiculous, but according to Luke he really could sing live, just not in the studio. He sounds alright on the one bootleg I have...I think most of the tracks on Isolation were decent, it's just missing those couple standout tracks that would've made the album a big success. There's nothing that really blows me away like on other Toto records beyond the title track.

Apparently after Fergie left (or was fired, depending on who you ask), he went out touring under a name that implied that he was Toto, doing "Hold The Line" and "Africa" and all that, so when the real Toto tried to get gigs in the States, promoters would be like "you just played here" when in reality it was Fergie. I think Bobby was guilty of a bit of this as well while he was away from teh band, but obviously they've resolved that...I think there's still some animocity over that between Luke and Fergie, at least from interviews I've read.

[Toto_fan]

Yes they did a big tour in Us on the Isolation tour and it was on this tour Toto played on a spring brake in pensacola infront of 300 000!

and yes fergie couldn't sing in the studio but he was okay live. But I'm sure If they'd picked Endless as a fisrt single they would had a big hit and yes If bobby would have stayed in the band they would probleby been huge in the Us to.

But on the other hand why did it worked out so good in the rest o the world? I mean Toto was a huge band in the 80's and still are in the rest of the world?

[WalrusOct9]

Because they kept touring in the rest of the world and maintaining a presence there.

I don't think their record company was willing to support them in the States. Why bother when it was easier to just send them to Europe and Asia? Yeah, that's pretty dumb, but when have record companies done anything smart?