Is Joe starting to struggle live?

[TotoFan77]

Here's the setlist from yesterday, Feb 21.

http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/toto/2016 ... 35cda.html

Sorry but if that's the new norm, then that's ridiculous. He's been reduced to 5 full songs and one duet. Luke is literally singing a majority of the show now and carrying this thing. I wonder if almost 6 years of touring is starting to take it's toll.

EDIT: Actually, only 4 full songs. I forgot Joe doesn't sing Hold The Line solo, it's a duet too now.

[Andrew]

You anal retentive "fans" are so quick to jump on everything. Joe got pneumonia you beanpole. He had to stay put under doc orders the next day and the band did the next show without him.

I wish Joe well and well done Toto for running with what they had to work with.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Joe has impressed me every year. Bobby had range but never much technique and control. Watch the end of Orphan on that recent Switzerland show put online. Joe is in a class of his own. He also sings Africa better than any singer they have ever had. Bar none.

I think it's cool that Dave is singing Strange In Town. Time to add Manuela Run or Rockmaker.

[WalrusOct9]

He sounded great to me last summer. Only having to sing a third of the set definitely helps preserve a singers' voice on tour. I doubt they'll be adding "Only The Children" into the set, but I can dream.

[TotoFan77]

You anal retentive "fans" are so quick to jump on everything. Joe got pneumonia you beanpole. He had to stay put under doc orders the next day and the band did the next show without him.

I wish Joe well and well done Toto for running with what they had to work with.

Thank you sir! I recently lost 42 pounds and I'm in the best shape of my life physically. I'll gladly take that beanpole comment as a compliment. Certainly an improvement over how I looked before!

[DracIsBack]

I'm going to take some heat for this, but yes, I think he is.

I've seen them each of the last three summers. He was great in all of them, but he was sounding more hoarse and struggling a bit more to get the high notes. He also looked like he was struggling to maintain his stanima after putting on all that weight again.

Joe wth a bit more struggles is still outstanding though.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Mabvuto and Jenny can do the Bobby/Joe stuff easily. Hope Joe gets better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7LvgkEphJU

[TotoFan77]

This is seriously incredible, wow. I thought they should have originally cancelled the show but if this is how Mavbuto sings, then no wonder they still went on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSStmwSpTbQ

[The_Noble_Cause]

This is seriously incredible, wow. I thought they should have originally cancelled the show but if this is how Mavbuto sings, then no wonder they still went on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSStmwSpTbQ

The BG singers hit the highest notes in the set, so I am not remotely surprised by this.

[TotoFan77]

Tony Spinner sang the high notes and I thought he was terrible and didn't fit with the band at all. When he sang Stop Loving You, he sounded like he was reading lines off of a piece of paper with no emotion. Mavbuto sings Pamela like he actually wrote it himself and he sings with passion and soul. If Joe has to take an extended break for any reason in the future, they already have a singer that's more than capable of keeping the band going.

I seriously want an official recorded version of Pamela with him singing!

[Sundet]

You anal retentive "fans" are so quick to jump on everything. Joe got pneumonia you beanpole. He had to stay put under doc orders the next day and the band did the next show without him.

I wish Joe well and well done Toto for running with what they had to work with.

I am honestly starting to become put off by the level of aggression displayed by Mr. McNeice on this forum. Granted, I know he runs it and I also acknowledge his right to express himself in whichever way he wants, but I find the tone in some of his comments here utterly uncalled for. I normally wouldn't comment on forum behaviour, but in this instance I do find it unfortunate than the forum's owner and moderator is so often the first to pull up a verbal gun, as it were. The poster here was merely wondering why the setlist had changed and probably had no way of knowing that Joseph was down with illness; and wondered whether it was down to Joseph struggling ast the tail end of a tour. Why did this warrant such an aggressive reply?

Let me join in the well wishes for Joe and go on record to say that he sounded absolutely brilliant when I saw them about two weeks back.

[TotoFan77]

I appreciate that Sundet.

I don't let it bother me though because sadly, this is something that's been coming from Toto's camp for well over a decade. It was happening on the old Toto 99 message board, the Toto Network, their Facebook page, and now here. If you say anything that isn't total ass-kissing towards the band, you get attacked by one of their yes-men. I've never, ever seen anything like this with any other band in existance, it's just Toto for some reason.

Here's the thing Andrew, and this also applies to all the other people over the years that have acted as yes-men for Toto and rudely gone after fans of the band, when you behave like you did above, you're not helping the band's image in any way man, you're just making them look even worse and you're adding to the negative reptuation that Toto has struggled with for years. When you lash out like that towards members here, it just makes lose more and more respect for Luke and the rest of Toto because I know they're telling you to do this (I know they read this forum and you're close with Luke and the others) and it just reinforces more and more that just maybe, the negative reputation that Toto suffers with, is justified on some level.

It's just a really sad situation all around and I've never seen this from any other band.

[Andrew]

Dear (anonymous users) Sundet and Toto"Fan"77

1 - I'm nobody's yes man. I've given negative reviews to Toto as well as praise - when it is well deserved. Please partake in some research.

2 - My "rudeness" causes you to lose respect for Toto? Eh? What am I missing there?

3 - Level of aggression? I haven't posted on here for a year as I'm otherwise too busy. And if what I do offends you, then may I suggest you step away from the computer, disconnect the electricity, pack your belongings up and head for the hills, as you probably won't survive in the real world.

Ok, I'm off to suck some Toto pole.

[Sundet]

3 - Level of aggression? I haven't posted on here for a year as I'm otherwise too busy. And if what I do offends you, then may I suggest you step away from the computer, disconnect the electricity, pack your belongings up and head for the hills, as you probably won't survive in the real world.

Mr. McNeice,

If this is indeed your preferred way to communicate and interact with other people, and if it is what works for you, here or elsewhere, then I will leave you to it. But I will reiterate that I have found some of your reactions in this forum uncalled for, perhaps even more so as owner and moderator, and I did make a similar point about a year ago as well.

Even if there is occasionally a bit of unwarranted and unnecessary criticism of the band here (though this is far from the worst place in internet land) jumping down somebody’s throat is hardly conducive to a good environment either. That was, and is, my main point. I often have found this particular forum, by and large, to be a place for rather enlightened discussion of most things Toto, at least in comparison with most other outlets for information and opinions, and I suppose it is for this reason that I find such cases of jumping the gun here to be almost as destructive as unfair criticism of the band, insofar as both impedes proper civilized discussion.

That being said, I do not think the last post from TotoFan77 was much to write home about either and, perhaps ironically, I think it does more to warrant a bit of telling-off than did his initial post.

As such, a certain email was perhaps in place after all, but I must say that I felt very, very strange finding myself at the receiving end of that blast as well – to say nothing of being called an ‘idiot’ - after having merely pointed out that I found the tone in Mr. McNeice’s initial reply to TotoFan77 to be unduly harsh. I had not criticized the band as a whole nor its individual members; nor have I made any remarks as regards the band’s public relations. In this respect, reading this certain email as something directed at me personally felt a bit like being in the presence of ‘a deaf man answering questions no one has asked’ – to quote Tolstoy – and for this reason I am not quite sure how to reply to it, although I, as a university professor commuting between two different countries leaving me with well over 200 days of travel a year, can only sympathize with many of the sentiments and frustrations expressed in said email.

I guess that, on the back of this whole strange experience and all this shouting from seemingly all corners of the room, the only logical thing for me to do is to sign off from this forum, albeit to my regret.

[Andrew]

Around here folks call me Andrew. Or Wombat. Or dickhead perhaps. None of this Mr. business.

I'm sorry you found my tone objectionable. I merely was trying to point out the reason behind an unfair summary of Joe vocals.

There is no need to leave the forum.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Dear (anonymous users) Sundet and Toto"Fan"77

1 - I'm nobody's yes man. I've given negative reviews to Toto as well as praise - when it is well deserved. Please partake in some research.

In fairness, Drew gave a mediocre review to Mindfields - which, imo, is a better album than FIB and XIV!

[The_Noble_Cause]

Tony Spinner sang the high notes and I thought he was terrible and didn't fit with the band at all.

Regarding Spinner's vocals.....he may have been a background vocalist, but he wasn't really going for highs Bobby missed or skipped. He did a marginal version of "Can't Stop Loving You."

[DracIsBack]

In fairness, Drew gave a mediocre review to Mindfields - which, imo, is a better album than FIB and XIV!

Try as i might throughout the years, I just could not get into Mindfields. I loved Mad About You and liked one or two other tunes but I never reach for it after trying to like it.

Diff'rent strokes.

[WalrusOct9]

Dear (anonymous users) Sundet and Toto"Fan"77

1 - I'm nobody's yes man. I've given negative reviews to Toto as well as praise - when it is well deserved. Please partake in some research.

In fairness, Drew gave a mediocre review to Mindfields - which, imo, is a better album than FIB and XIV!

Mindfields would've been a really good album in the vinyl era, cut down to 8 songs and 40 minutes. Half of it is fantastic, half of it is total filler. I think FIB is my favorite of the post-Jeff era, because it's the most focused from start to finish.

[St.George]

I don't let it bother me though because sadly, this is something that's been coming from Toto's camp for well over a decade. It was happening on the old Toto 99 message board, the Toto Network, their Facebook page, and now here. If you say anything that isn't total ass-kissing towards the band, you get attacked by one of their yes-men. I've never, ever seen anything like this with any other band in existance, it's just Toto for some reason.

(This is) not helping the band's image in any way man, you're just making them look even worse and you're adding to the negative reptuation that Toto has struggled with for years .

It's just a really sad situation all around and I've never seen this from any other band.

This is SOOOOOOOOOOO true. I always thought that myself. I was one of the first and few members of the old messageboard and certain attitudes were pissing me off back then (and still now in most of the FB groups). I remember when the album TTLG was released, there were a few fans who were not happy with the record, and they were flamed by the mods (Sarlic, Will... and some other peers) and even Luke himself in a ridiculous rant. Face it, guys: that record was a turd, no matter what were your reasons for making it. It's pure rubbish!

Back with the messaboard/fan groups: I used to be a very active member, but not anymore. I just lurk in the shadows to get some news and that's it. It's not worthy. They're kind of a lovefest with no debate at all. No one is entitled to critisize anything, cos' it'll soon be banned. I saw LOTS of people banned just for being politely expressing an unpopular opinion. IMO this is not good for the band's image at all. I know some others who think the same way and, in the end, the band is guilty for permitting this. In fact I think they've been accomplice for letting some people rule their official sites (such as the old messageboard) or fan-groups in that way. Most of these idiots are over protective people who think they are their saviors, while they project another stigma towards the band. And it looks like the band doesn't realize about this (or maybe they doesn't want to). In fact, many people (including me) think that Toto is (sic) "the best band with the worst fans", because all of this shit.

Luke, Paich, Steve... I know you read this. I've been following you for years, travelling thousands of miles for your concerts and supporting you in every situation, but I won't permit that any moron ruling any of your FB groups tell me what is right and what is wrong about my opinions. Let people express themselves freely and don't be and accomplice of censorship!

[Sundet]

I am very sorry and even more ashamed to have opened this can of worms and maggots, and as such for being responsible for this disgusting hatefest to unfold.

Let me make one thing clear: I only objected to Andrew's tone, not the message he was putting across. Nor have I ever considered him, or anyone else, as Toto's 'yes boy' or whatever, let found any reason whatsoever to believe that the band are making an effort to control the flow of information and thwart free discussion. Quite the contrary. Few bands are as open to their fans as Toto.

Having now witnessed what has emerged on the back of my utterly misguided objection, I take it back - indeed, I can understand Andrew's frustration, and I share it. And I was very naive to think that we are all here for friendly discussion. Some are clearly not, as a couple of the posts here show, to say nothing of a private message I received from one forum member, which was nothing short of malicious, even if it was directed at someone else.

It is beyond me how certain people here appear to have so little in terms of a normal life that their whole world seems to revolve around the internet and the Toto camp, of which they know little and understand even less. The end result is a wide and disgusting array of conspiracy theories, intrigue, accusations, insults and, frankly, childish idiocy.

Why can't we just discuss the music, in a civilized manner? It is perfectly alright to prefer song A over song B, and it is perfectly alright to think that a mix or master sounds muddy, and it is perfectly alright to think that song B is brilliant and that the mix is pristine. But it is not alright, by any means, to gulp up the kind of sewage displayed here, and in that certain private message.

Think before you post. Please.

[WalrusOct9]

This is SOOOOOOOOOOO true. I always thought that myself. I was one of the first and few members of the old messageboard and certain attitudes were pissing me off back then (and still now in most of the FB groups). I remember when the album TTLG was released, there were a few fans who were not happy with the record, and they were flamed by the mods (Sarlic, Will... and some other peers) and even Luke himself in a ridiculous rant. Face it, guys: that record was a turd, no matter what were your reasons for making it. It's pure rubbish!

Come on, it wasn't that bad. They needed some product (back when that mattered) for a tour, and it was the best thing they could do in like 6 weeks or whatever they had. The Steely Dan cover is good, Luke's solo on "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" and Bobby's vocal on the Elton tune totally shred, even if some of the other tracks didn't really hit the mark. I think the problem was the more obvious song choices, like the Cream and Animals tunes, it dragged the record down a bit. Oh well. Were people just thinking that if TTLG wasn't made, they'd have a new album of Toto originals in its place, even though no one had stuff written at the time? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[St.George]

Think before you post. Please.

I feel the need to reply because of some (indirect) allusions:

First: I love that band and the guys more than you or anyone else could question. Honestly, I KNOW my feelings about it, and I won't allow you or Luke himself questions that because of my comments. I know what I did for them, where I traveled for them and how much money I spent for them, so I won't allow ANYONE to question that.

Second: Though I love most of the things they do 99% of the times, there are certain things I don't like and I like to talk about them freely. I didn't like when Luke flamed Paich publicly because of licensing HIS music for an ad. And I didn't like the TTLG album, sorry. I understand WalrusOct9 reasons, but c'mon... after 4 years, we (fans) deserved a bit better... or nothing (I'd have preferred this, to tell u the truth).

And third: Regarding the band groups, I'm talking about FACTS, here. I SAW lots of banned people for stupid things. The last one was a guy who was talking positively about BK. That's sick, man! I know the guy is not welcome in the band camp anymore (and I fully support that), but you can't ban a fan for telling that he prefers BK than Joe. Ok, he might have been a bit passionate about it, but a ban is not justified, either way. I don't like that at all. Mods who treat other fans despotically cos' they think they are closer or befriended with the band.

What I like about Andrew is that he rarely deletes stuff, unless it's gone too far. He usually lets the debate ends. And this is what I miss the most in Toto camp: there's no place for debate. Everyone has to be happy and positive and politically correct. And that sucks. Big time!

So, in a nutshell: I LOVE the band, but I can't stand (many of) their fans!

[DracIsBack]

So, in a nutshell: I LOVE the band, but I can't stand (many of) their fans!

Heh. ever Hung around Chicago fans? There's a whole other level there ...

[The_Noble_Cause]

Why can't we just discuss the music, in a civilized manner? It is perfectly alright to prefer song A over song B, and it is perfectly alright to think that a mix or master sounds muddy, and it is perfectly alright to think that song B is brilliant and that the mix is pristine. But it is not alright, by any means, to gulp up the kind of sewage displayed here, and in that certain private message.

Think before you post. Please.

Well said.

[TotoFan77]

I stand by what I said.

For those that don't really know what Sundet is refering to, basically Andrew gave Luke my personal e-mail without telling me and Luke sent me this huge e-mail from his personal account. I'm serious, Luke e-mailed me directly from his personal AOL account lol The e-mail was in reply to me starting this thread and what I had said to Andrew.

I laughed for a good 5 minutes when I read his e-mail because it was so over the top, so hyperbolic, and parts of it made no sense whatsoever in regards to what he was supposedly replying to. I never replied back because I honestly have no idea what I would be replying "to" His e-mail was mostly a rant that was all over the place, how do you really reply to that? Also as you can expect from Luke, of course the e-mail had profanity and name calling lol

In any case, I blocked Luke cause I know he's going to read this and try e-mailing me again lol Luke, don't bother even trying, if you bothered to look at my other posts before contacting me, you would have seen that I've shown you alot of respect and love for what you've done as well as for Toto in general. Look at my post history from the past 2 years, you can see for yourself, I'm not posting examples.

Anyways, back to the original point. I simply asked if Joe was having some vocal issues as I noticed he was singing less. Never did I say he was "washed up" or "losing it" If Andrew had simply replied, "Joe contracted pneumonia which resulted in him singing less and he ended up missing last night's show completely but he's getting better and he will be back as good as before" This ENTIRE disucssion would have ended there. Oh well, Joe is back now 100%, the setlist is back to normal and all is well with the world again.

Have a great day everyone!

[JohnH]

You anal retentive "fans" are so quick to jump on everything. Joe got pneumonia you beanpole. He had to stay put under doc orders the next day and the band did the next show without him.

I wish Joe well and well done Toto for running with what they had to work with.

And Keith Emerson committed suicide - partly because of trolls who said "Keith shouldn't play anymore. " - He shouldn't have read comments about himself. He still played better maimed then most do healthy.

[Andrew]

I stand by what I said.

In any case, I blocked Luke cause I know he's going to read this and try e-mailing me again lol

Then you won't mind me blocking you also?