Triumph reuniting

[styxfanNH]

The classic Triumph line-up (Rik Emmett/Mike Levine/Gil Moore) could not have selected a better way to reunite after a two-decade absence - with what will undoubtedly be a show-stopping appearance at the 2008 Sweden Rock Festival.

[sniper16]

heel has now frozen over.

[Zan]

heel has now frozen over.

That explains why my foot is cold.

[KW]

Rik Emmett will be a guest on "Nights With Alice Cooper" tomorrow night, January 23rd.

More info: http://www.nightswithalicecooper.com

[Rockwriter]

The classic Triumph line-up (Rik Emmett/Mike Levine/Gil Moore) could not have selected a better way to reunite after a two-decade absence - with what will undoubtedly be a show-stopping appearance at the 2008 Sweden Rock Festival.

Wow! I interviewed Rik very in-depth for my book 'Unsung Heroes of Rock Guitar', and I have never, ever spoken to anyone in the business that had such extreme anger toward former business partners. This is the one reunion I would have thought could not happen. I'm in two minds about it. On the one hand, I'm happy for them, because bitterness and anger are so unhealthy, and I also think they are doing the right thing by satisfying their fan base, which has wanted this for a long time. On the other hand, I know Rik has grown far beyond the musical parameters of Triumph in the ensuing decades, and I suspect that in the end he will find this reunion musically unsatisfying and even embarrassing on some levels - like going back as an adult and putting on parachute pants and a Members Only jacket and wearing it out in public. I guess we'll see. Good luck to them.

I hope all is well.


Sterling

[bugsymalone]

This sounds like a "test the waters" kind of deal. I wonder if they are thinking of recording an album of new material? I am thinking they will see how this goes before they work up any future recording or touring plans.


Bugsy

[KW]

Here's an article from the Toronto Star with more info:

http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/article/295843

[brywool]

Rik can still do his other stuff, but Triumph could be a money maker for him (could also be too late for that).
I never knew the story behind his leaving. Why such bad blood?

[Blue Falcon]

The classic Triumph line-up (Rik Emmett/Mike Levine/Gil Moore) could not have selected a better way to reunite after a two-decade absence - with what will undoubtedly be a show-stopping appearance at the 2008 Sweden Rock Festival.

Wow! I interviewed Rik very in-depth for my book 'Unsung Heroes of Rock Guitar', and I have never, ever spoken to anyone in the business that had such extreme anger toward former business partners.

Sterling

From what I remember from the Triumph boards a few years back, his anger towards Gil and Mike seemed to be well-founded. Rik has always come off as a gentleman in everything he has done and it not known for diva-like behavior (like DDY was)...so that makes me think his anger was genuine.

I don't know the whole story, but I know that Mike produced the band and was more critical of Rik's material than he probably needed to be. Gil also wanted their albums to include 50% of his songs, which were rarely as good as Rik's. Apparently both Gil and Mike didn't like Rik doing acoustic instrumental numbers, which is something that added to Triumph's sound.

Basically, Mike and Gil wanted Triumph to be all hard rock all the time...like JY in Stynx. Rik added more progressive elements and was booted for it. I also believe that much of the anger has to do with the royalty money that Gil and Mike still owe Rik, and that Rik can't even reference Triumph's name on his solo tours.

Rik was BY FAR the best musician and singer in that band.

[Zan]

Rik was BY FAR the best musician and singer in that band.

BY FAR, maybe not, but I have to agree with the opinion that he was the reason most people liked Triumph. I thought Gil's playing was excellent (and had a decent voice), but Rik sings and plays like a freakin' angel...and yes, he is a really nice guy too boot.

[DarwinNebraska]

Who sings all the Triumph hits like "Lay It On The Line" and "Magic Power"?

[brywool]

Rik's gotta killer voice.

Nice of the idiots here to somehow turn an item about Triumph into a Jy/Styx bash...
jeez, gettagrippeople...

[bugsymalone]

Here's an article from the Toronto Star with more info:

http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/article/295843

Thanks for that link, KW. That shed a lot of light on the whole story. I wish them well with this.


Bugsy

[DarwinNebraska]

Rik's gotta killer voice.

Nice of the idiots here to somehow turn an item about Triumph into a Jy/Styx bash...
jeez, gettagrippeople...

What the fuck are you talking about? There's no mention of Styx/JY anywhere in this thread.

[stmonkeys]

go re-read blue falcon's post.

[DarwinNebraska]

go re-read blue falcon's post.

Didn't see it, but ramrod made it more noticeable with his comment.

[froy]

The classic Triumph line-up (Rik Emmett/Mike Levine/Gil Moore) could not have selected a better way to reunite after a two-decade absence - with what will undoubtedly be a show-stopping appearance at the 2008 Sweden Rock Festival.

Fantastic
I have seen Triumph many times
They kick ass.

[Blue Falcon]

If I remember correctly, Gil and Mike referred to Rik as their "former guitarist" for the last 20 years or so, and refused to mention him by name. At least they didn't say that "Magic Power" and "Lay It On the Line" were 'cringe-inducing' songs that 'alienated half their fanbase.'

What's my point? If these goofballs can put aside such past bitterness and give the fans what they want (like the Eagles and the Police were able to do last year), maybe there's hope for a classic Styx reunion down the road.

Of course, that road leads to some ice hockey rink on the River Styx, from what I hear...

[Rockwriter]

Rik can still do his other stuff, but Triumph could be a money maker for him (could also be too late for that).
I never knew the story behind his leaving. Why such bad blood?

The same old thing that causes bad blood in EVERY band. Money, control, ego . . . blah blah blah. Rik joined Triumph after they had a record deal, but before they had a record out. The strength of Gil and Mike's marketing of the concept was enough to get them signed, and in Rik they found the fast guitarist they needed, plus a lot more. He came from a progressive rock band called Act III (I think), and he was a much more advanced musician, and he brought a sophisticated sense of composition that they lacked - and didn't really want. Gil in particular, his style was very simple power chord songs in the arena rock style, with screaming vocals and fast guitar solos, and that was his vision for Triumph. Mike shared that as well, but as the ad hoc producer for most of that Triumph stuff he also recognized that Rik was a great songwriter and a great singer, and audiences grabbed into him, so as the band's career propgressed Rik got pushed as the main man more and more. His songs became hits more often, and as it is in bands, it started to cause jealousy, in this case with Gil because Gil was the other writer/singer. So Mike was always mediating as a producer.

Gil and Mike actually managed the band as well, and since they were working so hard on the business end, Rik proposed a scenario where they started crediting all songs to all three and dividing up the money, so that he would not be earning so much more. It was a move he came to regret as his songs ultimately eclipsed Gil's by far, and as time went on Rik felt he was being pushed more and more to the side. At one point the label actually approached Rik and offered to make a Triumph record in which Gil and Mike would just manage the band, and the label would put Rik with players of equal talent, and that would be Triumph, and then Gil and Mike sued the label to get out of the contract, and MCA ended up buying out their contract. So for the last couple of Triumph records - Sport of Kings and Surveillance - they had outside producers, and outside material was brought in in what Rik felt was an attempt by the other guys to wrestle control of the band and score hit singles of which Gil was the lead singer.

During Surveillance a song of Rik's called "Rock You Down" was completely changed after his part in the record was done; it had originated as a song about rebellion through music, a Pete Townsend-esque type song, and Gil re-wrote the lyrics without permission and re-recorded it with himself singing lead. Rik never knew this until the day he heard final mixes, when it was too late. So he quit, but the guys had taken on a big loan from a t-shirt company to stage the previous tour, and they asked him to stay and play some dates until that debt was settled. He agreed, and went on tour, and as the tour progressed Rik claims he was not getting paid any of the touring revenue, so he quit before the tour was done. He claims that after he left, they stopped paying him out his one-third of the publishing money on ANY of the songs, and he went to court to try to obtain an equitable distribution of the partnership assets. The suit lasted EIGHT YEARS, and in that time they did a Triumph record without him that tanked, which de-valued the name so much that ultimately he wound up settling for what he felt was a very small amount of money compared to what Triumph had been earning in the peak years he was in it.

So yes, there are reasons for his extreme anger. Of course that's only the side I heard from interviewing Rik. I'm sure Gil and Mike would portray it very dfferently. But needless to say, I am very surprised to see them together again, and I'm also not too sure that the Triumph name will even carry a tour so many years after the fact. In Canada probably, but in the States I don't see Triumph drawing numbers sufficient to make one-third of it enough money to replace the income from Rik's solo career, much less Mike's career as a producer. I guess we'll see.

I hope all is well.


Sterling

[brywool]

THANK YOU STERLING for that in-depth and great answer.

A similar thing happened to McCartney with "The Long and Winding Road". Phil Spector, who was brought in to sort out "the biggest load of shit" (John Lennon's quote) from the "Let it Be" sessions put strings and women's voices all over the track and Paul didn't hear it until it was too late to fix it. THAT was supposedly the last straw for him and prompted him to sue the Fabs and Allen Klein.

It's weird how there are so many bands out there that don't learn from those that've gone before them. As somebody said, ego and money. So true. However, (not at first) that's why bands get into record deals in the first place- TO MAKE MONEY.

The fact that the other two guys in Triumph had Emmett come in, and he was nothing like what they wanted in the first place, I mean- um, DUH! Of COURSE they're not going to last and of course there's going to be a break down in things.

You gotta hope that they can actually put this stuff aside and work. And to keep it relevant to Styx/DeYoung, you gotta hope that though these guys don't work together anymore that they can eventually become friendly with one another again. I'm sure that all sides realize the contributions of the other. I DO agree that JY should be a bit more diplomatic about it. "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything".


Ramrod

[yogi]

You know it seems like all these bands break up because of money, the bands name etc....

You would actually think that some of em would break up over women/ sex or some type of ' he stole my damn stash man'.

So have any famous bands broken up over women, or something like he took my last hit , or snort?????

[froy]

You know it seems like all these bands break up because of money, the bands name etc....

You would actually think that some of em would break up over women/ sex or some type of ' he stole my damn stash man'.

So have any famous bands broken up over women, or something like he took my last hit , or snort?????

Well you have to admit the Styx break up was a load of crap
The leader of the band gets sick so they throw him out and never want to play with him again
What does that say about there character?
They replace him with one of the chipmonks and do 1000 shows in 7 years
I do not think anyone wants to see a Styx reunion thanks to James Young
Styx is done

[stmonkeys]

You know it seems like all these bands break up because of money, the bands name etc....

You would actually think that some of em would break up over women/ sex or some type of ' he stole my damn stash man'.

So have any famous bands broken up over women, or something like he took my last hit , or snort?????

the beatles....LOL!!!

ok just kidding

[Zan]

Well you have to admit the Styx break up was a load of crap
The leader of the band gets sick so they throw him out and never want to play with him again
What does that say about there character?

That's a strange little world you live in, Froy. lol

One could argue that many here have put up with less crap from you (and for a lesser amount of time) who would relish an opportunity to kick you out and never hear from you again, and I'd hardly hold that against their character!

[LordofDaRing]

Yogi is right. I always shudder when I hear some sucessful musician say "its all about the music". Maybe, at one time, however after becoming sucessful, its all about the money. I use to hear from "cool" people growing up that Styx was too commerical, a sell out if you will. I never argued the point. The Beatles were commercial. Led Zeppllin was commerical. Hell even so called anti-establishment bands like the Sex Pistols and Nirvana were commercial, by actually putting on the persona of being anti-commercial.

The only band I can remember off the top of my head breaking up over somebody snagging somebody's girl may have been the Mamma's and the Pappa's. But even then Pappa John was commercial enough to make the two (Denny and Michelle) actually sing about it. I saw her again last night.

[sniper16]

my friend is a guitar player who knows rik, i have talked o him a few times, this was not a money issue, the final straw was rerecording/remixing of songs, and personal issues as stated by the earlier post.

[stabbim]

The leader of the band gets sick so they throw him out and never want to play with him again

Did you know that in Portland OR there's a code you can tap into your cell phone at stop lights to make them change colors?

[froy]

The leader of the band gets sick so they throw him out and never want to play with him again

Did you know that in Portland OR there's a code you can tap into your cell phone at stop lights to make them change colors?

I thought that was only done is albany Maine

[MCM]

Rik's gotta killer voice.

Nice of the idiots here to somehow turn an item about Triumph into a Jy/Styx bash...
jeez, gettagrippeople...

DITTO!!!!!!