HWBHB

[Toph]

I was able to purchase the new Caught In The Act DVD with the bonus videos, many of which I hadn't ever seen before.

The one that really stood out to me was "Haven't We Been Here Before" - what is going on in that video? Obviously they walked away from Kilroy at that point, but would someone who majored in film or even literature explain to me what the heck the meaning is supposed to be behind that video? Are they going back in time? Is the old man supposed to be one of the guys in the restaurant in the future? Someone clue me in...

Toph

[Bearded Clam]

I've alway wondered that too. I have a feeling that when they were in the planning stages of the video, they wanted to tie it in to the Kilroy stuff and then the band fell apart and Tommy said " Get me on a pendulum instead"

[Rockwriter]

I've alway wondered that too. I have a feeling that when they were in the planning stages of the video, they wanted to tie it in to the Kilroy stuff and then the band fell apart and Tommy said " Get me on a pendulum instead"

The band usually has little to no input into video storyboards. In the case of Kilroy I think the ones that tie into the movie were done at the same time, on the same sets as the movie, so that's a different story. "Haven't We Been Here Before" was done later, after the sets were taken down, and it would have been phenomenally expensive to put all that back up, so they went in a different direction. It's almost certainly a scenario where the director came in and said, "Okay, I'm shooting this, this and this . . . you stand there, he stands there, you walk over here . . ." and then edited it all together afterwards. It's visually interesting, but I don't think it makes any sense at all, doesn't tie in with the lyric of the song and arguably was never meant to. To search for a deeper meaning or an explanation . . . I kinda doubt there is one, LOL.

I hope all is well.


Sterling

[AnnieOprah]

I've alway wondered that too. I have a feeling that when they were in the planning stages of the video, they wanted to tie it in to the Kilroy stuff and then the band fell apart and Tommy said " Get me on a pendulum instead"

The band usually has little to no input into video storyboards. In the case of Kilroy I think the ones that tie into the movie were done at the same time, on the same sets as the movie, so that's a different story. "Haven't We Been Here Before" was done later, after the sets were taken down, and it would have been phenomenally expensive to put all that back up, so they went in a different direction. It's almost certainly a scenario where the director came in and said, "Okay, I'm shooting this, this and this . . . you stand there, he stands there, you walk over here . . ." and then edited it all together afterwards. It's visually interesting, but I don't think it makes any sense at all, doesn't tie in with the lyric of the song and arguably was never meant to. To search for a deeper meaning or an explanation . . . I kinda doubt there is one, LOL.

I hope all is well.


Sterling

I gotta disagree here. I would think that someone as perfectionist and controlling as Dennis DeYoung would be involved in every aspect of the video shoot including the storyboard and the message. I don't see him just handing it off to some director. As for what that video is supposed to communicate, though, I haven't the foggiest clue. Is it supposed to be taking place during prohibition? (the restaurant scene?)

[Bearded Clam]

I'm under the impression that Tommy has a lifelong obsession with riding on a pendulum and he finally saw his chance ( get it? Chance. Ha! score another one for Clammy!)

[elmotano]

I've alway wondered that too. I have a feeling that when they were in the planning stages of the video, they wanted to tie it in to the Kilroy stuff and then the band fell apart and Tommy said " Get me on a pendulum instead"

The band usually has little to no input into video storyboards. In the case of Kilroy I think the ones that tie into the movie were done at the same time, on the same sets as the movie, so that's a different story. "Haven't We Been Here Before" was done later, after the sets were taken down, and it would have been phenomenally expensive to put all that back up, so they went in a different direction. It's almost certainly a scenario where the director came in and said, "Okay, I'm shooting this, this and this . . . you stand there, he stands there, you walk over here . . ." and then edited it all together afterwards. It's visually interesting, but I don't think it makes any sense at all, doesn't tie in with the lyric of the song and arguably was never meant to. To search for a deeper meaning or an explanation . . . I kinda doubt there is one, LOL.

I hope all is well.


Sterling

I gotta disagree here. I would think that someone as perfectionist and controlling as Dennis DeYoung would be involved in every aspect of the video shoot including the storyboard and the message. I don't see him just handing it off to some director. As for what that video is supposed to communicate, though, I haven't the foggiest clue. Is it supposed to be taking place during prohibition? (the restaurant scene?)

I have to agree with Annie, I would think there was a lot of input from Dennis or the whole band.

[bugsymalone]

I tend to think the band, including Dennis, had very little input for this video.

I believe the videographer was one whose work was popular at the time. There are a few other 80's vids that are very similar in the visuals to HWBHB and also were quite obscure as to meaning. I am guessing it was the same person, probably highly regarded at the time.

Again, this video has to be looked at in the context of the time it was created. It falls in line with a number of videos that got increasingly strange with complex graphics and that were completely beyond any interpretation, other than the creator's often wacky "concept", which only he or she understood.

A lot of those fell into the WTF category for me back in the heyday of MTV videos.

There was a wonderful video that Phil Collins did for "Don't Lose My Number" that was one of the most hilarious takes ever on the whole music video scene at the time. I always picture that Japanese couple being the ones who pitched the idea, and got the gig, for HWBHB.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0wxAp2mNkA

I have noted before on here before, the first time I saw this, it took me watching this whole thing before I even recognized which one Dennis was. Crazy as the whole thing is, I did love the gambling joint/burger joint scene.


Bugsy

[StyxCollector]

I would doubt Styx had much creative input into that video - same with "Music Time". If they were contracutally bound to do it (see: Tommy Shaw waving in the "Music TIme" video shot at an entirely different location and time), they just showed up.

[LordofDaRing]

Anybody besides me think that Tommy looked scared to death riding on that clock, looks like he actually slips on it (ouch).

[Rockwriter]

I tend to think the band, including Dennis, had very little input for this video.

I believe the videographer was one whose work was popular at the time. There are a few other 80's vids that are very similar in the visuals to HWBHB and also were quite obscure as to meaning. I am guessing it was the same person, probably highly regarded at the time.

Again, this video has to be looked at in the context of the time it was created. It falls in line with a number of videos that got increasingly strange with complex graphics and that were completely beyond any interpretation, other than the creator's often wacky "concept", which only he or she understood.

A lot of those fell into the WTF category for me back in the heyday of MTV videos.

There was a wonderful video that Phil Collins did for "Don't Lose My Number" that was one of the most hilarious takes ever on the whole music video scene at the time. I always picture that Japanese couple being the ones who pitched the idea, and got the gig, for HWBHB.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0wxAp2mNkA

I have noted before on here before, the first time I saw this, it took me watching this whole thing before I even recognized which one Dennis was. Crazy as the whole thing is, I did love the gambling joint/burger joint scene.


Bugsy

I posted the other day, a post that somehow never made it to the board (it's lost out there somewhere in limbo with one my socks!) pointing out that it's not like the band would have VOLUNTEERED to have no input. The way it generally works is, since video budgets come from the promotional money which is provided by the label - not the band - the label people can hire whatever director they feel is likely to make a video that will bring positive attention to their act, resulting in sales. Just like a movie director, that person then has free reign for the most part to do exactly as he pleases with the video whether a band likes it or not. They are merely his actors when they show up to film, and in fact it's not that unusual for a band not to know exactly what's going to be shot. I would bet that's what the scenario was with this video. With "Mr. Roboto" and "Don't Let It End", those were shot as the short film was being shot (which gets into an interesting question: since Styx paid for that movie itself, did A&M have to re-compensate them for those two videos? Otherwise Styx should technically own those videos) and thus had that kind of thematic continuity. With "Haven't We Been here Before", if I were going to guess I would say that it was done very late in the process of 'Kilroy', and that maybe A&M was trying a different tactic and trying to see if they could have a hit from the record that stood apart from the concept. Maybe it was an attempt to mollify certain band members (i.e. Tommy) who were unhappy with the concept and the fact that Dennis had had both singles. A lot of things might have come into play on this, but wow! All I can say is this video is a swing and a miss for me. Too bad, because I love this song, and in a different scenario I always felt "Haven't We Been Here Before" could have been a hit single. Great song, lousy video in my view.

I hope all is well.


Sterling

[bugsymalone]

the label people can hire whatever director they feel is likely to make a video that will bring positive attention to their act, resulting in sales. Just like a movie director, that person then has free reign for the most part to do exactly as he pleases with the video whether a band likes it or not.

Then that makes even more sense that the "hot" director(s) of the day would be hired. And I have seen other head-scratching videos of this era, with similar graphics, that I figure were probably from the same person. None of those made any sense either.

Side note: I always thought one of the best videos for Styx was the one for "Show Me the Way," which was directed by Michael Bay.


Bugsy

[bugsymalone]

AhHA! (Both literally and figuratively)

Check this out:

http://www.mvdbase.com/tech.php?last=Barron&first=Steve

And this:

http://members.aol.com/mg4273/musvideo.htm

Which had this:

Many of Steve Barron's video's are about the encounter between film and reality. It is not quite illusion and reality; rather it deals with the juxtaposition of worlds created out of film, and real life. In Human League's "Don't You Want Me Baby", we see the band acting in a film, and then watching themselves in scenes from the film. The video climaxes with a camera tracking over to a mirror, where we see the camera and the crew reflected, shooting themselves - an ingenious and atmospheric climax. Another video shows a woman comic book artist falling asleep over her drawings, dreaming that they have come to life. In A-Ha's "Take On Me", the characters alternate between animated comic book drawings and reality. A character we first thought was just a drawn illusion, eventually becomes a real young man, played by the band's lead singer. The return to waking is memorable too: three cuts on movement, including a spinning fan: a really beautiful figure of style.

We also have Brian Adams singing his haunting ballad Heaven, one of the best songs of the 80's, to a whole theater full of TV sets. The hotel rooms of Joe Jackson's "Stepping Out", shot through their windows, also give a two kinds of reality effect. Adams' "Cuts like a Knife" is done in a drained swimming pool, and has illusion vs. reality, but no filmic elements. The movements of the characters, combined with the camera movements, are especially striking and beautiful here. The camera tends to circle and swoop around the singers. The hero's black leather jacket returns in "Take On Me".

"Take on Me" is an awesome video.


Bugsy

[stabbim]

Side note: I always thought one of the best videos for Styx was the one for "Show Me the Way," which was directed by Michael Bay.

I never knew that, but looking back it makes perfect sense.

Take on Me" is an awesome video.

Indeed. Can't go wrong with Altered States references.

[bugsymalone]

Indeed. Can't go wrong with Altered States references.

LOL. Maybe it was his homage to that movie. ............ Or he was just ripping it off.


Bugsy

[stabbim]

Indeed. Can't go wrong with Altered States references.

LOL. Maybe it was his homage to that movie. ............ Or he was just ripping it off.

Oh, I definitely think it was an "homage." The movie wasn't exactly a huge blockbuster but it had only been out for a couple of years when the video was made, so the director couldn't have thought he was getting away with anything.

My favorite WTF moment in HWBHB is the bit where TS & DDY are singing in separately shot side-by-side frames, but the pic in the TS frame is clearly a videotape which has been kept on pause (in mid-syllable, it seems) until the vocal cue. As Fat Tony would say, it cracks me consistently up.

[FormerDJMike]

I believe this guy was supposed to direct the video for "Top Of The World". I remember in one of those letters from JY back in the day he said the director of "Take On Me" would be working with him on the video...

Speaking of videos, has anyone noticed "Edge" completely missing from "CITA"? It isn't even listed on the discogrophy but everything else is. It's a shame those videos are not on it but they completely ignore it as if it was never done.

[Zan]

I believe this guy was supposed to direct the video for "Top Of The World".

(Ash)ON TOOOOOOP OF THE WOOOOOOOOOORLD...(/Ash)

Sorry, had to - just in case Ash was out of town or something and missed this.