Dennis on Rockline

[StyxCollector]

I ought to clarify one thing: KILROY did not actually lose money. When the guys say it "lost money", they are comparing it to the previous tour in support of PT, which is somewhat of an unfair comparison because that tour was the most profitable in history at that time. They are basically saying it "lost" money that never was, by saying "If we had booked the tour straight and done the dates without the huge production, we would have made this much, whereas by doing it the way we did, we only made that much . . . the difference is this much, so that's what was lost." They actually all made money, just not as much as they might have preferred. BTM did not make that clear, and really neither did my book becuse I myself did not understand that point until after the fact. Those guys also still participated equally in the publisher's side of the royalties back then, so when "Roboto" and "Don't Let It End" got that massive radio play, it's safe to say those songs did very well for all involved. It's not like they had to stand in line at the soup kitchen because of KILROY. The album was a hit - but not as big a hit as they wanted it to be. The tour drew well - but not as well as they would have liked. A lot of what happened has to do with how spoiled everyone had gotten, as well.

And therein lies the rub - it's more about what they could have made instead of what they did actually make. Now, Tommy was unhappy tour or no tour; there's no debate on that. Chances are there would have been a "come to Jesus" moment with Tommy after that tour with no Kilroy drama. Whatever went on with Roboto and the KWH tour seemed to add fuel to the fire.

I've said this before as well: most successful bands have a great 6 - 10 year run in their history (think the Stones mid-60s to the early to mid-70s from a creative standpoint; they've done well for 40+ years, but I think creatively they peaked during that timeframe). The Beatles? Done by 1971 after starting in the early 60s. Styx? Together from the late 60s, but huge success from 1977 - 1983.

[yogi]

That is EXACTLY what I wrote. The tour made EVERYONE money. It just wasnt the type of coin that they could have made had they not chosen to play the smaller venues.

Even the huge festival shows made them money, but it has to be divided among soo many acts.

Had they done Kilroy like they did Paradise Theatre(hockey rinks/ baseball stadiums) they would have been rolling in the dough again.

They still made PLENTY of cash, but not what they could have.

P.S. Years ago I purchase the 1985 Billboard magazine( on E-Bay) that showed what the Kilroy tour made and they were 2nd or 3rd that year with the largest gross.

[Everett]

That is EXACTLY what I wrote. The tour made EVERYONE money. It just wasnt the type of coin that they could have made had they not chosen to play the smaller venues. Even the huge festival shows made them money, but it has to be divided among soo many acts. Had they done Kilroy like they did Paradise Theatre(hockey rinks/ baseball stadiums) they would have been rolling in the dough again. They still made PLENTY of cash, but not what they could have. P.S. Years ago I purchase the 1985 Billboard magazine( on E-Bay) that showed what the Kilroy tour made and they were 2nd or 3rd that year with the largest gross.

who was number one?

[Zan]

TO ME, it was sad when they introduced Chuck saying that it was him and his brother John that started the band, never mentioning Dennis, in which I KNOW they don't do that or even acknowledge him. I hope someone that was there pipes in and corrects me if I'm wrong, but I thought JY said on stage about America and that Tommy wrote the next song "Suite Madame Blue". One of my friends said, I thought Dennis wrote that and someone behind me said that Tommy wasn't even in the band when that album came out. Maybe we all heard it wrong, not sure.

I wasn't at that show, but I have been to 39 Styx shows since Dennis has been gone, and never have I heard JY introduce ANY Dennis-penned song and credited someone else for it on stage. For what it's worth.

I think it was so "sad" to you because of how you feel about Dennis & his family. I can't fault you for that. I think it's kinda sad too that they can't or won't acknowledge DeYoung at any cost. I think it's kinda cool that Dennis can mention them too. It's just one of those things...I can't live in a situation for anyone. I didn't live through any of it, so I likely will never understand the dynamics of it. I wish it was more civil between the camps, but for whatever reason, it isn't. I'm still going to see the shows and have fun. Not my battle. Hopefully one day, it'll be less tense, but if not, I'll still go and enjoy myself.

[yogi]

I think it was The Police. We have had three moves since I purchased the magazine and I dont know where half my music/Styx material is.

But I know The Police's Tour was ahead of Styx's Kilroy Was Here Tour

[StyxCollector]

That is EXACTLY what I wrote. The tour made EVERYONE money. It just wasnt the type of coin that they could have made had they not chosen to play the smaller venues.

Even the huge festival shows made them money, but it has to be divided among soo many acts.

Had they done Kilroy like they did Paradise Theatre(hockey rinks/ baseball stadiums) they would have been rolling in the dough again.

They still made PLENTY of cash, but not what they could have.

P.S. Years ago I purchase the 1985 Billboard magazine( on E-Bay) that showed what the Kilroy tour made and they were 2nd or 3rd that year with the largest gross.

The contention wasn't just choice of venues, but the cost of putting the show on. All of that stage stuff, acting, etc., cost a lot of money. The production cost was way higher than a more "simplistic" stage with just musicians and a standard light show. I remember Kilroy playing the Spectrum in Philly (where they played on the PT tour) so in some cases it wasn't smaller venues.

We're playing armchair quarterback 25+ years on, but the fact remains they didn't lose money.

[yogi]

If I remember correctly The Police was #1, Journey was at 2 and Styx was 3.

Many of the venues were exactly the same.

They also played the small intimate theatre type shows were they may have lost money, plus the Jams were they were splitting their take with 4 & 5 other acts.

For the Paradise Theatre Tour they only played the big gigs, and 99.9% of the time they were by themselves with not even an opening act. All that cash came straight to them.

Kilroy brought them major cash, it just wasnt the foutunes that they could have made had they chosen to play as they did The Paradise Theatre Tour.

[LordofDaRing]

The contention wasn't just choice of venues, but the cost of putting the show on. All of that stage stuff, acting, etc., cost a lot of money. The production cost was way higher than a more "simplistic" stage with just musicians and a standard light show. I remember Kilroy playing the Spectrum in Philly (where they played on the PT tour) so in some cases it wasn't smaller venues.

We're playing armchair quarterback 25+ years on, but the fact remains they didn't lose money.


I think they should have done the more intimate Kilroy stage shows in the smaller arenas, then when they switched to the stadium venues with Sammy Hagar and company just gone back to a basic rock show. That would have reduced overhead costs and probably soothed some of the bad feelings at the time. But your point is well taken, TS would have left regardless. I think he was being told at the time, just as Dennis was too, that he could survive as a solo act. So he gave it a shot and so did DDY and they found out it wasn't that easy.

"Hopefully one day, it'll be less tense, but if not, I'll still go and enjoy myself."

Sure, when they put Styx in the Hall of Fame. Yeah Right! I wonder who will be included in the next round of nominations: Britney Spears, Ashley Simpson and fill in the blank rap artist....

[stmonkeys]

getting back to BTM for a minute (i know... the horse is dead, but we're all so good at beating it!) Does anybody remember hearing that the BTM episode was totally re-edited a week before it aired? I am positive i heard about this, either from tommy in the aol chat, or from somewhere else. I'm curious to know what "spin" was on the earlier episode before they redid it, what was added, what was removed. we all know how it turned out, but i wonder if the producers decided to play up the "drama" angle, since it would mean better ratings. we all know that it became one of the favorite BTM episodes (at least, according to sting )

[Rockwriter]

getting back to BTM for a minute (i know... the horse is dead, but we're all so good at beating it!) Does anybody remember hearing that the BTM episode was totally re-edited a week before it aired? I am positive i heard about this, either from tommy in the aol chat, or from somewhere else. I'm curious to know what "spin" was on the earlier episode before they redid it, what was added, what was removed. we all know how it turned out, but i wonder if the producers decided to play up the "drama" angle, since it would mean better ratings. we all know that it became one of the favorite BTM episodes (at least, according to sting )

I know there was some additional editing, but I don't know when. I do know they had more pro-Dennis stuff they chose not to use, from his manager, some of his family, some Styx employees past and present, maybe a few others. It does seem that a very specific slant was chosen, at least to me. They chose to emphasize Dennis' negative elements to make him the antagonist and play up Tommy's positives and downplay his negatives to make him the protagonist. For instance, they somehow failed to mention that Tommy quit the band by storming off in the middle of a concert, LOL. Kind of a big thing to not put in. I'm not saying anything in it was a lie, per se, but it certainly was not evenly balanced in terms of editing. They had access to all of the same people I did and more, and still really failed to tell a complete story. Part of it is time constraint, but the major part of it is that VH1 is not journalism, it's infotainment. It's no more real than an episode of Gene Simmons Family Jewels.

I hope all is well.


Sterling

[Toph]

getting back to BTM for a minute (i know... the horse is dead, but we're all so good at beating it!) Does anybody remember hearing that the BTM episode was totally re-edited a week before it aired? I am positive i heard about this, either from tommy in the aol chat, or from somewhere else. I'm curious to know what "spin" was on the earlier episode before they redid it, what was added, what was removed. we all know how it turned out, but i wonder if the producers decided to play up the "drama" angle, since it would mean better ratings. we all know that it became one of the favorite BTM episodes (at least, according to sting )

I know there was some additional editing, but I don't know when. I do know they had more pro-Dennis stuff they chose not to use, from his manager, some of his family, some Styx employees past and present, maybe a few others. It does seem that a very specific slant was chosen, at least to me. They chose to emphasize Dennis' negative elements to make him the antagonist and play up Tommy's positives and downplay his negatives to make him the protagonist. For instance, they somehow failed to mention that Tommy quit the band by storming off in the middle of a concert, LOL. Kind of a big thing to not put in. I'm not saying anything in it was a lie, per se, but it certainly was not evenly balanced in terms of editing. They had access to all of the same people I did and more, and still really failed to tell a complete story. Part of it is time constraint, but the major part of it is that VH1 is not journalism, it's infotainment. It's no more real than an episode of Gene Simmons Family Jewels.

I hope all is well.


Sterling

I remember one thing that was in the preview on Vh-1's writeup of the show and didn't make it into the show, so there must have been some last minute cuts. One thing it said in the preview write up was somethig to the effect of "Learn how Styx was saved by the Gulf War." Clearly a reference to SMTW and it being such a smash hit single. But I don't remember them talking about that in the episode at all!