Gowan article in today's Sun newspaper

[chowhall]

Ok but why wasin't GI/CSA on the cyo dvd?

Because they would have to split the money they made from that DVD with Dennis if they had included his songs on the DVD.

[Everett]

Ok but why wasin't GI/CSA on the cyo dvd?

Because they would have to split the money they made from that DVD with Dennis if they had included his songs on the DVD.

Yeah i get that it just seems strange to me that those songs aired on the new year's eve special but they weren't on the cyo show kind of a jip imo. Jodes how much of each song did they air?

[StyxCollector]

They actually played: Grand Illusion Too Much Time Criminal Mind Fooling Yourself Come Sail Away Renegade I think Styx played a full set, they just "cut" in for the above songs. They cut their songs for commericals just like they did for DDY's set back in 07. Happy New Year All..

I thought they couldin't play any ddy only songs on air or recorded or is the lawsuit now in void? Or does that only apply to the states? Where's sterling when ya need him?

I think any artist can play what they want. I think Styx avoids playing Dennis's songs because they have to pay him money to do so IMO.

Ok but why wasin't GI/CSA on the cyo dvd?

I love when people have no clue what they're talking about. Do some research on copyright law.

First, anyone here ever see the old Styxworld 2001 live CD? They had DDY tracks on there. All that requires is a mechanical license by the owner of the copyright. When you release video and sync audio with it, it's a whole different thing. The same goes for using samples. You need a synchronization and/or master recording license - depending. None of these has anything to do with lawsuits.

For the earlier Styx songs, I believe it's Almo Music (I could be wrong; I'm not near any music books) who handled Stygian Songs. Later Styx songs may carry DDY's Grand Illusion Music, which gives DDY total control. For example, songs on EOTC he wrote or co-wrote would need his OK. Grand Illusion Music I think was first used around 1980 or 81, so in the PT-era. I believe Cornerstone was still Stygian Songs/Almo. As part of the arrangement with Almo, DDY (or the other songwriters like JY or TS) may get the final approval say, but that's neither here nor there. Bottom line is that someone needs to approve or disapprove.


In fact, DDY has everything to gain by allowing people to use his songs if he owns the copyright. Could he say no to some uses of his songs? Sure, and I'm pretty confident he has (i.e. as a sample as part of a rap song that has some vulgar lyrics DDY didn't like). If Styx (and most likely, JY) do not want to give any money to DDY to spite him, well, that's a choice they make. Silly since it hurts them, too.

And for the record, NO ONE has talked about the details of the settled-out-of-court lawsuit, other than we know how DDY was able to use the Styx name in how he promotes himself. Everything else is between Styx, DDY, and their lawyers.

[Rockwriter]

They actually played: Grand Illusion Too Much Time Criminal Mind Fooling Yourself Come Sail Away Renegade I think Styx played a full set, they just "cut" in for the above songs. They cut their songs for commericals just like they did for DDY's set back in 07. Happy New Year All..

I thought they couldin't play any ddy only songs on air or recorded or is the lawsuit now in void? Or does that only apply to the states? Where's sterling when ya need him?

I think any artist can play what they want. I think Styx avoids playing Dennis's songs because they have to pay him money to do so IMO.

Ok but why wasin't GI/CSA on the cyo dvd?

I love when people have no clue what they're talking about. Do some research on copyright law.

First, anyone here ever see the old Styxworld 2001 live CD? They had DDY tracks on there. All that requires is a mechanical license by the owner of the copyright. When you release video and sync audio with it, it's a whole different thing. The same goes for using samples. You need a synchronization and/or master recording license - depending. None of these has anything to do with lawsuits.

For the earlier Styx songs, I believe it's Almo Music (I could be wrong; I'm not near any music books) who handled Stygian Songs. Later Styx songs may carry DDY's Grand Illusion Music, which gives DDY total control. For example, songs on EOTC he wrote or co-wrote would need his OK. Grand Illusion Music I think was first used around 1980 or 81, so in the PT-era. I believe Cornerstone was still Stygian Songs/Almo. As part of the arrangement with Almo, DDY (or the other songwriters like JY or TS) may get the final approval say, but that's neither here nor there. Bottom line is that someone needs to approve or disapprove.


In fact, DDY has everything to gain by allowing people to use his songs if he owns the copyright. Could he say no to some uses of his songs? Sure, and I'm pretty confident he has (i.e. as a sample as part of a rap song that has some vulgar lyrics DDY didn't like). If Styx (and most likely, JY) do not want to give any money to DDY to spite him, well, that's a choice they make. Silly since it hurts them, too.

And for the record, NO ONE has talked about the details of the settled-out-of-court lawsuit, other than we know how DDY was able to use the Styx name in how he promotes himself. Everything else is between Styx, DDY, and their lawyers.

That's exactly right, with one possible caveat . . . someone close to the band told me at the Ryman gig here in Nashville a few years ago that when they film the band, they don't film Gowan doing Dennis songs anymore because they are not allowed. Now that's not from any band member or management, but it IS from someone who was filming that night, so take it for what you will. Basically anyone can play any song they want to . . . I for instance could go out and start a band and call it Pieces of Eight and play nothing but Styx songs and nobody could do anything about it. Once a song has been recorded you can cover it as long as you arrange the license fees through the performing rights societies. It's when you take a song and bring it into a new format that you have to get author permissions. Video, DVD, etc. And unless it's changed, Styx could play any DDY songs they wanted in their show without paying him. And one more thing: as far as I know, Tommy still owns his slice of those Dennis songs. He's the only one who does as far as I know.

Sterling

[mr.v]

They actually played: Grand Illusion Too Much Time Criminal Mind Fooling Yourself Come Sail Away Renegade I think Styx played a full set, they just "cut" in for the above songs. They cut their songs for commericals just like they did for DDY's set back in 07. Happy New Year All..

I thought they couldin't play any ddy only songs on air or recorded or is the lawsuit now in void? Or does that only apply to the states? Where's sterling when ya need him?

I think any artist can play what they want. I think Styx avoids playing Dennis's songs because they have to pay him money to do so IMO.

Ok but why wasin't GI/CSA on the cyo dvd?

I love when people have no clue what they're talking about. Do some research on copyright law.

First, anyone here ever see the old Styxworld 2001 live CD? They had DDY tracks on there. All that requires is a mechanical license by the owner of the copyright. When you release video and sync audio with it, it's a whole different thing. The same goes for using samples. You need a synchronization and/or master recording license - depending. None of these has anything to do with lawsuits.

For the earlier Styx songs, I believe it's Almo Music (I could be wrong; I'm not near any music books) who handled Stygian Songs. Later Styx songs may carry DDY's Grand Illusion Music, which gives DDY total control. For example, songs on EOTC he wrote or co-wrote would need his OK. Grand Illusion Music I think was first used around 1980 or 81, so in the PT-era. I believe Cornerstone was still Stygian Songs/Almo. As part of the arrangement with Almo, DDY (or the other songwriters like JY or TS) may get the final approval say, but that's neither here nor there. Bottom line is that someone needs to approve or disapprove.


In fact, DDY has everything to gain by allowing people to use his songs if he owns the copyright. Could he say no to some uses of his songs? Sure, and I'm pretty confident he has (i.e. as a sample as part of a rap song that has some vulgar lyrics DDY didn't like). If Styx (and most likely, JY) do not want to give any money to DDY to spite him, well, that's a choice they make. Silly since it hurts them, too.

And for the record, NO ONE has talked about the details of the settled-out-of-court lawsuit, other than we know how DDY was able to use the Styx name in how he promotes himself. Everything else is between Styx, DDY, and their lawyers.

That's exactly right, with one possible caveat . . . someone close to the band told me at the Ryman gig here in Nashville a few years ago that when they film the band, they don't film Gowan doing Dennis songs anymore because they are not allowed. Now that's not from any band member or management, but it IS from someone who was filming that night, so take it for what you will. Basically anyone can play any song they want to . . . I for instance could go out and start a band and call it Pieces of Eight and play nothing but Styx songs and nobody could do anything about it. Once a song has been recorded you can cover it as long as you arrange the license fees through the performing rights societies. It's when you take a song and bring it into a new format that you have to get author permissions. Video, DVD, etc. And unless it's changed, Styx could play any DDY songs they wanted in their show without paying him. And one more thing: as far as I know, Tommy still owns his slice of those Dennis songs. He's the only one who does as far as I know.

Sterling

I just spoke with a co-worker who shot video of Styx and REO at the Somet Center a month or so ago for the band's promotional use and he said he never stoped down regardless of what song they were playing. Now this video was not for release but will be what they pull from to make conmmercials for 2010. Many times this video will be quick cuts and the actual recorded audio won't be used, if that's the case then I'm sure it doesn't matter what song the video is from. Just FYI.

[Abitaman]

And one more thing: as far as I know, Tommy still owns his slice of those Dennis songs. He's the only one who does as far as I know.

Sterling

I was wondering what you meant by this? Like for the whole CD's or songs Tommy wrote with DDY.

[Rockwriter]

And one more thing: as far as I know, Tommy still owns his slice of those Dennis songs. He's the only one who does as far as I know.

Sterling

I was wondering what you meant by this? Like for the whole CD's or songs Tommy wrote with DDY.

The band used to have a publishing company and published songs collectively in a manner that the writer earned half the song, and the publisher earned half. So in scenario where Dennis wrote a song, he would earn half the money, and all 5 guys would split the other half evenly. Same with Tommy and JY. When they got back to do EOTC they re-negotiated, and from then on each writer owned his own publsihing and it has not been shared with non-writing members. (The exception to that was CYCLO, where everyone was listed as writers). Also at the time of EOTC the non-writing members (John and Chuck) signed over their rights to the 1/5 of 1/2 they had been earning, and the separate writers gave back their rights to each others' songs. So from then on when JY's songs get airplay, only JY earns the cash, same with Dennis. Of course Dennis got the best deal there because he wrote the most songs that earn airplay royalties. But since Tommy was not in the band at that time, he was not privy to that agreement and as far as I know he never signed it later on. So Tommy still earns his 1/5 of one-half of Dennis' hits. Interesting, huh? Some pretty convoluted business underlies a lot of the anger in that band.

Sterling

[StyxCollector]

That's exactly right, with one possible caveat . . . someone close to the band told me at the Ryman gig here in Nashville a few years ago that when they film the band, they don't film Gowan doing Dennis songs anymore because they are not allowed. Now that's not from any band member or management, but it IS from someone who was filming that night, so take it for what you will.

Hence why I said this

And for the record, NO ONE has talked about the details of the settled-out-of-court lawsuit, other than we know how DDY was able to use the Styx name in how he promotes himself. Everything else is between Styx, DDY, and their lawyers.

Now, that may have been part of the agreement, but we don't know. That part may be null and void at this point, but in effect at that time. Makes for fun speculation, but that's all it is.

And one more thing: as far as I know, Tommy still owns his slice of those Dennis songs. He's the only one who does as far as I know.

Not sure about that. I'll have to dig up the docs from the lawsuit, but from my recollection, TS sold all of his shares/stake from the old Styx agreement from 1980/81 in the early 90s. I could be wrong.

[SuiteMadameBlue]

That's exactly right, with one possible caveat . . . someone close to the band told me at the Ryman gig here in Nashville a few years ago that when they film the band, they don't film Gowan doing Dennis songs anymore because they are not allowed. Now that's not from any band member or management, but it IS from someone who was filming that night, so take it for what you will. Basically anyone can play any song they want to . . . I for instance could go out and start a band and call it Pieces of Eight and play nothing but Styx songs and nobody could do anything about it. Once a song has been recorded you can cover it as long as you arrange the license fees through the performing rights societies. It's when you take a song and bring it into a new format that you have to get author permissions. Video, DVD, etc. And unless it's changed, Styx could play any DDY songs they wanted in their show without paying him. And one more thing: as far as I know, Tommy still owns his slice of those Dennis songs. He's the only one who does as far as I know.

Sterling

Very interesting.

I was on a film crew that videotaped Styx that was going to be featured in a local movie some years ago. I don't remember anything about not filming Gowan singing any of Dennis' songs, I know at the time there was paperwork we all read & signed. I know we taped "Lady" for sure with Gowan singing and also JY singing "Lorelei", I have those tapes. I'll have to see what else we were able to tape.

[froy]

Nice article. I would think that it would ring 'okay' with rabid DeYoung fans... at least for Gowan's quotes if not the interviewer's. Gowan show's plenty of respect for the songs and admits he's not trying to sound like DeYoung and couldn't sound like him. That's cool of him.

On the other hand, the article acknowledges all those movie inclusions of Styx songs.... which were largely Dennis' songs, if I'm not mistaken. They should mention that fact.

The more I hear from Gowan in the press, the more I like him. He's not out to tarnish anyone's legacy, he's simply replacing a member that no longer can work with the band. He's doing a fine job. Now, if the band would just get up off of their creative butts and give us an album of new songs...

I definitely think Styx should take the high-road and acknowledge Dennis more in their bio. Pretty silly that they don't, but that's the way the music business is.

... And now, I'll pass you over to Froy.... Froy-hoy-hoy?

This is the same band that refers to Dennis as "our former keyboardist". Nice, huh?

Whats wrong with that? That's what he is. What would you like them to call him? How about the "Old Showtune Guy"

How about "the reason there is a band in the first place".
Maybe this new Styx should stop playing those "showtunes". Maybe they should stop playing showtunes like "Come Sail Away" and "Lady" and "Rockin' The Paradise" and all the other showtunes he wrote. Oh, they should also disavow the money and fame they sit on for showtunes that they are too cool to play like "Babe" and "Mr. Roboto" and "Show Me The Way". Yeah. They should drop all those stupid showtunes and play all those Tommy and JY rockers! You know, rockers like "She Cares" and "Sing For The Day" and "Fooling Yourself".

Happy fuckin new year, Douche.

Hey ass-wipe I never said he didn’t write some good songs in the past! I’ve been a fan of Styx since 1972. I’ve meet DDY many times and most of the time he was very nice. My point was that he has changed direction and just doesn’t fit in a rock band anymore unless the band was Air Supply! Why don’t you go back and read the last 5 years of my posts and learn something and then listen to 10 From Broadway.
Where the hell is Froy!

I have the freakin flu its tough typing so I will just watch.

[Zan]

I have the freakin flu its tough typing so I will just watch.

Probably for the best!

Feel better anyway.

[Jodes]

Just FYI, the Niagra Falls show was "removed" from Dime.. not sure why, but I downloaded the torrent but didn't get a chance to actually download the program.

Get better soon Froy!

[DerriD]

Nice article. I would think that it would ring 'okay' with rabid DeYoung fans... at least for Gowan's quotes if not the interviewer's. Gowan show's plenty of respect for the songs and admits he's not trying to sound like DeYoung and couldn't sound like him. That's cool of him.

On the other hand, the article acknowledges all those movie inclusions of Styx songs.... which were largely Dennis' songs, if I'm not mistaken. They should mention that fact.

The more I hear from Gowan in the press, the more I like him. He's not out to tarnish anyone's legacy, he's simply replacing a member that no longer can work with the band. He's doing a fine job. Now, if the band would just get up off of their creative butts and give us an album of new songs...

I definitely think Styx should take the high-road and acknowledge Dennis more in their bio. Pretty silly that they don't, but that's the way the music business is.

... And now, I'll pass you over to Froy.... Froy-hoy-hoy?

This is the same band that refers to Dennis as "our former keyboardist". Nice, huh?

Whats wrong with that? That's what he is. What would you like them to call him? How about the "Old Showtune Guy"

The keyboardist when we headlined.