Why did Styx erase Dennis from it's history?

[Monker]

What I meant is that if JY felt that way then he should have opted to let the firing of DDY in '79 stand. As you have pointed out none of them are irreplaceable. So that being the case Styx would have been able to carry on just fine without DDY post '79 and the remaining members would be happy.

You are taking a quote looking at Styx in retrospect and saying that he knew the future in 1979 and that next number of years would be even worse. You're right, if he/they DID know that in 1979, maybe DDY would have stayed fired.

That is today's attitude...and is not a 'simple fact'. How many chances after Lady did Styx have to 'make it big?' In today's world, they wouldn't have lasted past their debut. They would definitely be gone after MoM and SiR. The bands that have lasted from the 70's and 80's had labels that nurtured them in their early years to give them a chance at long term success. Even a band like U2 was not so chart friendly in the early years and may have been canned early today. Bon Jovi only had "Runaway" from their debut, and it wasn't exactly a 'hit'. I doubt Def Leppard would last past High'n Dry. You can go on and on and on. Journey's first three albums did nothing on the charts, had NO memorable singles, and they were almost dropped because of it. The label either believes in their artists abilities, or they don't care and only want the cash. In today's world, they only want the cash...so you had better sell from the start. But, that is not the way it always was....and it didn't have to be that way from Styx in the early 80's.

Record labels have been this way for a long time. I would say more so starting around '80. It is just more evident now then before. They just drop artists at a faster pace today then before. Which is due to the dwindling profits in the business.

You are just simply wrong. AOR bands were given time to find an audience. If that was not true, Styx and Journey would have been dropped after only a couple albums. Nowadays, if the band doesn't have a hit, they are gone. What band that started their career in the last five years and was signed on a major label was given more then a couple albums to have a hit?

[StyxCollector]

You are just simply wrong. AOR bands were given time to find an audience. If that was not true, Styx and Journey would have been dropped after only a couple albums. Nowadays, if the band doesn't have a hit, they are gone. What band that started their career in the last five years and was signed on a major label was given more then a couple albums to have a hit?

Like I said, read Stan Cornyn's "Exploding". The business wasn't really any different at any time in history. When the money got bigger as time went on, the less rope bands had to hang themselves. This is why I said we will never see another Yes, Rush, Springsteen, Dylan, etc. The tolerances were arguably the same in the approach, but the timeframe may have been different.

EDIT: Walter Yetnikoff's "Howling at the Moon" is also pretty good for an insight into the business side of things. A bit more sordid, though. Stan worked for WEA, and Yetnikoff Columbia (CBS, Epic, etc.).

[Toph]

[quote="Monker
That is such a lame and baseless comment. These guys are artists and want to express themselves. Having Dennis at the wheel saying, "no, you have to express yourself within these boundaries and write songs within this specific concept..." Diminishes that ability. If he had done that in tho previous years, I doubt they would have released CB, GI, or POE...and Tommy probably would not have stuck around very long at all.

Monker, everytime you open your mouth, your logic is flawed. Maybe you just can't follow. Maybe you just aren't that bright. Regardless, you argument is flawed.

You bitch at DDY for setting boundaries with concept albums and then praise GI and PO8. Guess what Monker? They are both concept albums! They require the writers to write within a certain concept. They set boundaries. So, how can you praise those two concept albums and then complain about the "lack of freedom"" that poor baby Tommy had to write for Paradise Theater and Kilroy? And then, if Tommy was so upset about concept albums and hated them so much then why oh why, genius, did Tommy choose to have Brave New World be a concept album? That was Tommy's baby from the start. He made the association with Huxley's widow and decided that Styx should do a concept album - the same thing you (and he) bitched about - around Brave New World. Is that not putting boundaries on creativity? Is telling someone that they can't write a ballad putting boundaries on creativity? You're arguments are so logically flawed that it borders on being funny.

[Boomchild]

What I meant is that if JY felt that way then he should have opted to let the firing of DDY in '79 stand. As you have pointed out none of them are irreplaceable. So that being the case Styx would have been able to carry on just fine without DDY post '79 and the remaining members would be happy.

You are taking a quote looking at Styx in retrospect and saying that he knew the future in 1979 and that next number of years would be even worse. You're right, if he/they DID know that in 1979, maybe DDY would have stayed fired.

Sure JY made that comment after the fact. That doesn't mean that he didn't feel that was where things were heading. In fact it seems that he did. That is why he was not comfortable with "Babe" and the change in what Styx was doing at the time of Cornerstone. In '79 JY seemed to be concerned about changing the sound of Styx that they were known for at that time.

That is today's attitude...and is not a 'simple fact'. How many chances after Lady did Styx have to 'make it big?' In today's world, they wouldn't have lasted past their debut. They would definitely be gone after MoM and SiR. The bands that have lasted from the 70's and 80's had labels that nurtured them in their early years to give them a chance at long term success. Even a band like U2 was not so chart friendly in the early years and may have been canned early today. Bon Jovi only had "Runaway" from their debut, and it wasn't exactly a 'hit'. I doubt Def Leppard would last past High'n Dry. You can go on and on and on. Journey's first three albums did nothing on the charts, had NO memorable singles, and they were almost dropped because of it. The label either believes in their artists abilities, or they don't care and only want the cash. In today's world, they only want the cash...so you had better sell from the start. But, that is not the way it always was....and it didn't have to be that way from Styx in the early 80's.

Record labels have been this way for a long time. I would say more so starting around '80. It is just more evident now then before. They just drop artists at a faster pace today then before. Which is due to the dwindling profits in the business.

You are just simply wrong. AOR bands were given time to find an audience. If that was not true, Styx and Journey would have been dropped after only a couple albums. Nowadays, if the band doesn't have a hit, they are gone. What band that started their career in the last five years and was signed on a major label was given more then a couple albums to have a hit?

I am not talking about in the '70s. I said starting in the '80s. With the advent of MTV it put an even bigger focus by the record labels for focusing on hit singles.

[Boomchild]

Boomchild wrote:
Not according to JY. He has Stated "Dennis was good for Styx for the first ten years and after that it was alll about him". So according to JY they could have moved forward without him and Styx would have been better off.

Monker wrote:
What you said above does not disagree with what I said. In fact, it supports it in some ways. Dennis was not good for Styx in the last 10yrs. His attitude that only his opinion mattered is what tore the band apart.

Boomchild wrote:
What I meant is that if JY felt that way then he should have opted to let the firing of DDY in '79 stand. As you have pointed out none of them are irreplaceable. So that being the case Styx would have been able to carry on just fine without DDY post '79 and the remaining members would be happy.

There weren't enough "votes" to have him fired in 1979. 1 yes, 2 no, 1 on the border (from what I heard from a friend, who heard it from a friend - you can go in the REO song now)

That's interesting. In Behind the Music DDY himself stated that he was fired. So if there were not enough votes then I don't think he would have stated that. According to what was presented in BTM he was fired and since the other members could not come up with solution to replacing DDY they asked him to come back.