Even REO is remastering

[ztyxlynne]

I for one would love to see reissues, esp with bonus material. Also I would love to see some kind of box set. Doubt that would ever happen though.

[StyxCollector]

REO may be involved and Sony may not care. A lot of times bands pay for this stuff themselves to do archival releases. Styx does not own their masters. The record company makes the shots, and as I've said and in talking to record company folks in the past associated with Uni, there's no interest in doing anything new with the Styx catalog here in the US. Stuff like the PT release in Japan is not a widespread release.

So I guess this means there must be a decent demand for this stuff in the japan market. Hence the prior SHM releases and now the PT release. I think there would have to be some real $$ involved for anyone from Styx to be motivated to do something with it and that's not the case.

Yes and no. Japan does that kind of thing for a lot of bands. The Styx catalog has been largely out of print there for eons sans a few things. Japan likes packaging Other bands get reissued quite a bit. PT is one of the Styx albums that has basically remained in print or easily available there, along with Cornerstone. So if they do another, I wouldn't be shocked if it's that one. I'm just happy I'm getting one.

I for one would love to see reissues, esp with bonus material. Also I would love to see some kind of box set. Doubt that would ever happen though.

Do a search. This is retreading old ground. All won't happen because it takes involvement and agreement on what would be included. And to be honest, outside of demos, there is very little in the way of non-album stuff for Styx (not counting any possible live stuff). Rush is the same way.

Genesis did all the work for their reissues; the labels just put them out. I don't see JY lovingly putting out a reissue of, say, GI. You'll get the licensed (by UNI) stuff like the terrible Audio Fidelity.

[Toph]

REO may be involved and Sony may not care. A lot of times bands pay for this stuff themselves to do archival releases. Styx does not own their masters. The record company makes the shots, and as I've said and in talking to record company folks in the past associated with Uni, there's no interest in doing anything new with the Styx catalog here in the US. Stuff like the PT release in Japan is not a widespread release.

So I guess this means there must be a decent demand for this stuff in the japan market. Hence the prior SHM releases and now the PT release. I think there would have to be some real $$ involved for anyone from Styx to be motivated to do something with it and that's not the case.

Yes and no. Japan does that kind of thing for a lot of bands. The Styx catalog has been largely out of print there for eons sans a few things. Japan likes packaging Other bands get reissued quite a bit. PT is one of the Styx albums that has basically remained in print or easily available there, along with Cornerstone. So if they do another, I wouldn't be shocked if it's that one. I'm just happy I'm getting one.

I for one would love to see reissues, esp with bonus material. Also I would love to see some kind of box set. Doubt that would ever happen though.

Do a search. This is retreading old ground. All won't happen because it takes involvement and agreement on what would be included. And to be honest, outside of demos, there is very little in the way of non-album stuff for Styx (not counting any possible live stuff). Rush is the same way.

Genesis did all the work for their reissues; the labels just put them out. I don't see JY lovingly putting out a reissue of, say, GI. You'll get the licensed (by UNI) stuff like the terrible Audio Fidelity.

Does Dennis even have any say in anything that is put out? Hypothetical, if they put out a remastered Pieces of Eight with demos/bonus tracks (i.e. never have seen any original Po8 videos), does he have any say on what does or does not go out? I don't think he does because he clearly hasn't been involved with any of these multiple compilations (GOLD, ICON, 20th Century Masters, Rockers) on song selection. I note specifically no DDY tracks on Rockers and no "DLIE" on any other compilation, despite top 10 single status. I'm assuming the lawsuit says that TS/JY/Chuck, as sole owners of the name, can decided on what catalog product to put out, when, and what the contents of said catalog product will be. Just as assumption, though.

[Boomchild]

Does Dennis even have any say in anything that is put out? Hypothetical, if they put out a remastered Pieces of Eight with demos/bonus tracks (i.e. never have seen any original Po8 videos), does he have any say on what does or does not go out? I don't think he does because he clearly hasn't been involved with any of these multiple compilations (GOLD, ICON, 20th Century Masters, Rockers) on song selection. I note specifically no DDY tracks on Rockers and no "DLIE" on any other compilation, despite top 10 single status. I'm assuming the lawsuit says that TS/JY/Chuck, as sole owners of the name, can decided on what catalog product to put out, when, and what the contents of said catalog product will be. Just as assumption, though.

My thinking is that if the recordings in question are owned by the label, then none of them have any legal rights to what is done with them. The record labels may seek input from them but legally are not required to do so since they own the recordings.

[FormerDJMike]

I just want a Paradise remaster that will play on my turntable!

[Toph]

I just want a Paradise remaster that will play on my turntable!

Amen brother - there should be a federal law - album hits number 1, it should automatically get a remaster and a 180g vinyl.

[StyxCollector]

I just want a Paradise remaster that will play on my turntable!

Amen brother - there should be a federal law - album hits number 1, it should automatically get a remaster and a 180g vinyl.

Vinyl should die a horrible death. Hated it then, hate it now.

If you want audiophile PT on that terrible format, it existed in the 80s. There was the Canadian and the Nautilus pressing.

[StyxCollector]

Does Dennis even have any say in anything that is put out? Hypothetical, if they put out a remastered Pieces of Eight with demos/bonus tracks (i.e. never have seen any original Po8 videos), does he have any say on what does or does not go out? I don't think he does because he clearly hasn't been involved with any of these multiple compilations (GOLD, ICON, 20th Century Masters, Rockers) on song selection. I note specifically no DDY tracks on Rockers and no "DLIE" on any other compilation, despite top 10 single status. I'm assuming the lawsuit says that TS/JY/Chuck, as sole owners of the name, can decided on what catalog product to put out, when, and what the contents of said catalog product will be. Just as assumption, though.

We don't know the specifics of their deal with Universal or among themselves after the lawsuit, but some bands have say. A band like Styx may have once had the clout to have that in their contract, but these days, who knows. If JY/TS control this end of the world now, it's not in their best interests to put out super duper reissues which would obviously have to highlight someone like Dennis and acknowledge him in some major way. A straight reissue like the Japanese PT and the Audio Fidelity GI which do not have anything like bonus cuts, etc., are well within normal record company guidelines to put out (PT) or license (AF)

The Po8 videos are out there and have been for years. Example: Sing for the Day.

[Toph]

Does Dennis even have any say in anything that is put out? Hypothetical, if they put out a remastered Pieces of Eight with demos/bonus tracks (i.e. never have seen any original Po8 videos), does he have any say on what does or does not go out? I don't think he does because he clearly hasn't been involved with any of these multiple compilations (GOLD, ICON, 20th Century Masters, Rockers) on song selection. I note specifically no DDY tracks on Rockers and no "DLIE" on any other compilation, despite top 10 single status. I'm assuming the lawsuit says that TS/JY/Chuck, as sole owners of the name, can decided on what catalog product to put out, when, and what the contents of said catalog product will be. Just as assumption, though.

We don't know the specifics of their deal with Universal or among themselves after the lawsuit, but some bands have say. A band like Styx may have once had the clout to have that in their contract, but these days, who knows. If JY/TS control this end of the world now, it's not in their best interests to put out super duper reissues which would obviously have to highlight someone like Dennis and acknowledge him in some major way. A straight reissue like the Japanese PT and the Audio Fidelity GI which do not have anything like bonus cuts, etc., are well within normal record company guidelines to put out (PT) or license (AF)

The Po8 videos are out there and have been for years. Example: Sing for the Day.

Is it on YouTube? I cant find thrm. Also, Just the three singles as videos or anything more obscure like I'm ok, queen of spades, or title track?

[Boomchild]

We don't know the specifics of their deal with Universal or among themselves after the lawsuit, but some bands have say. A band like Styx may have once had the clout to have that in their contract, but these days, who knows. If JY/TS control this end of the world now, it's not in their best interests to put out super duper reissues which would obviously have to highlight someone like Dennis and acknowledge him in some major way. A straight reissue like the Japanese PT and the Audio Fidelity GI which do not have anything like bonus cuts, etc., are well within normal record company guidelines to put out (PT) or license (AF)

The Po8 videos are out there and have been for years. Example: Sing for the Day.

It makes sense that JY and TS are not going to be that much interested in having something released that is going to highlight when DDY was in the band. They have have done everything they can to distance themselves from that era.

[FormerDJMike]

I just want a Paradise remaster that will play on my turntable!

Amen brother - there should be a federal law - album hits number 1, it should automatically get a remaster and a 180g vinyl.

Vinyl should die a horrible death. Hated it then, hate it now.

If you want audiophile PT on that terrible format, it existed in the 80s. There was the Canadian and the Nautilus pressing.

Thanks, I may hunt it down! You and I have discussed this before but I love vinyl!

[fsutall]

I do think it's odd that A&M never released a boxed set for Styx. A nicely packaged 4 disc set with 3 CDs of hits, key album tracks, rarities (the few that are out there) and the solo hits (Desert Moon, Girls With Guns, High Enough, etc.) coupled with a DVD of vintage concert material would have been a solid seller back when people were purchasing CDs. At this point I don't think it will ever happen, unfortunately.

[Boomchild]

I do think it's odd that A&M never released a boxed set for Styx. A nicely packaged 4 disc set with 3 CDs of hits, key album tracks, rarities (the few that are out there) and the solo hits (Desert Moon, Girls With Guns, High Enough, etc.) coupled with a DVD of vintage concert material would have been a solid seller back when people were purchasing CDs. At this point I don't think it will ever happen, unfortunately.

I do think it is odd that A&M never did something like this based on the band's success and what it did for for the label. I guess it's possible that one of the reasons could be that some band members wished that the unreleased "rarities" not be released.

[Monker]

REO may be involved and Sony may not care. A lot of times bands pay for this stuff themselves to do archival releases. Styx does not own their masters. The record company makes the shots, and as I've said and in talking to record company folks in the past associated with Uni, there's no interest in doing anything new with the Styx catalog here in the US. Stuff like the PT release in Japan is not a widespread release.

So I guess this means there must be a decent demand for this stuff in the japan market. Hence the prior SHM releases and now the PT release. I think there would have to be some real $$ involved for anyone from Styx to be motivated to do something with it and that's not the case.

Or, it means that Universal makes more profit margin off a limited Japan release then it would on a US release.

Styx doesn't care about releases of the older albums...they do not make money off the album sales beyond writing credits...all that goes to Dennis via old contracts. They have absolutely no incentive to fund a remaster of those albums. Why is Dennis not funding the remasters since he is the one who will gain the most from the sales of the CD's? Why is that not the question being asked?

The bottom line is, it doesn't matter who pays for it, it seems to me that entity (Styx, Dennis, Universal, whoever) is going to lose money...if they were going to earn a profit, Universal would be doing it with or without Styx/Dennis help.

But, IMO, the above argument is irrelevant anyway. Universal is the label. They own the masters. They are in complete control. Even if someone else funded it, they don't have to allow it to happen.

[Toph]

REO may be involved and Sony may not care. A lot of times bands pay for this stuff themselves to do archival releases. Styx does not own their masters. The record company makes the shots, and as I've said and in talking to record company folks in the past associated with Uni, there's no interest in doing anything new with the Styx catalog here in the US. Stuff like the PT release in Japan is not a widespread release.

So I guess this means there must be a decent demand for this stuff in the japan market. Hence the prior SHM releases and now the PT release. I think there would have to be some real $$ involved for anyone from Styx to be motivated to do something with it and that's not the case.

Or, it means that Universal makes more profit margin off a limited Japan release then it would on a US release.

Styx doesn't care about releases of the older albums...they do not make money off the album sales beyond writing credits...all that goes to Dennis via old contracts. They have absolutely no incentive to fund a remaster of those albums. Why is Dennis not funding the remasters since he is the one who will gain the most from the sales of the CD's? Why is that not the question being asked?

The bottom line is, it doesn't matter who pays for it, it seems to me that entity (Styx, Dennis, Universal, whoever) is going to lose money...if they were going to earn a profit, Universal would be doing it with or without Styx/Dennis help.

But, IMO, the above argument is irrelevant anyway. Universal is the label. They own the masters. They are in complete control. Even if someone else funded it, they don't have to allow it to happen.

Dennis gets writing credits for his songs, Tommy for his, JY for his. Not quite Dennis gets everything....

[Boomchild]

Dennis gets writing credits for his songs, Tommy for his, JY for his. Not quite Dennis gets everything....

The reality of is that everyone involved missed the opportunity long ago to make a substantial profit off this idea.

[Monker]

Dennis gets writing credits for his songs, Tommy for his, JY for his. Not quite Dennis gets everything....

The reality of is that everyone involved missed the opportunity long ago to make a substantial profit off this idea.

Not when Dennis gets 100% of the sales revenue and the rest only get the writing cedits. What's the point of Styx trying to sell a CD where they get $0 of revenue? They'd make more money by continuing to rerecords the old songs with Gowan singing.

But, of course, nobody wants to admit that's an issue in those old contracts.

[Toph]

Dennis gets writing credits for his songs, Tommy for his, JY for his. Not quite Dennis gets everything....

The reality of is that everyone involved missed the opportunity long ago to make a substantial profit off this idea.

Not when Dennis gets 100% of the sales revenue and the rest only get the writing cedits. What's the point of Styx trying to sell a CD where they get $0 of revenue? They'd make more money by continuing to rerecords the old songs with Gowan singing.

But, of course, nobody wants to admit that's an issue in those old contracts.

That is just blatantly not true. Dennis gets percentages for his songs, Tommy for his, JY for his. So if an album has 9 songs, Dennis writes 5, Tommy 3, JY 1 then DDY gets 5/9, TS 3/9, JY 1/9. Not sure how that = 100%....

[StyxCollector]

I do think it's odd that A&M never released a boxed set for Styx. A nicely packaged 4 disc set with 3 CDs of hits, key album tracks, rarities (the few that are out there) and the solo hits (Desert Moon, Girls With Guns, High Enough, etc.) coupled with a DVD of vintage concert material would have been a solid seller back when people were purchasing CDs. At this point I don't think it will ever happen, unfortunately.

I do think it is odd that A&M never did something like this based on the band's success and what it did for for the label. I guess it's possible that one of the reasons could be that some band members wished that the unreleased "rarities" not be released.

If you read Sterling's book, you can pretty much guess why - after their heyday, and especially in the early 90s, they were not the favorite children. Labels have no real loyalty (for the most part) now that they're even more corporate entities than they ever were. The rarities are more demos and live shows; very few fully recorded band b-sides exist. I really only know of two, and one is purely in demo form. Styx, like Rush, really never recorded much outside of what got the albums. There are some interesting curios with outtakes that sound slightly different than their album counterparts, but unless you get into minutiae, not interesting for most folks. Live stuff would be interesting as well, plenty of that exists.

Technically, the 2CD Gold/CSA collection was considered a box set. So they got one ... just not what we as fans would have wanted.

I just hold out hope that as part of the new SHM-SACD/Platinum SHM-CD/SHM-CD series, we get a couple more Styx albums done.

[Boomchild]

If you read Sterling's book, you can pretty much guess why - after their heyday, and especially in the early 90s, they were not the favorite children. Labels have no real loyalty (for the most part) now that they're even more corporate entities than they ever were. The rarities are more demos and live shows; very few fully recorded band b-sides exist. I really only know of two, and one is purely in demo form. Styx, like Rush, really never recorded much outside of what got the albums. There are some interesting curios with outtakes that sound slightly different than their album counterparts, but unless you get into minutiae, not interesting for most folks. Live stuff would be interesting as well, plenty of that exists.

Technically, the 2CD Gold/CSA collection was considered a box set. So they got one ... just not what we as fans would have wanted.

I just hold out hope that as part of the new SHM-SACD/Platinum SHM-CD/SHM-CD series, we get a couple more Styx albums done.

It's been a long time since I read Sterling's book. But, I remember getting that impression. The interesting thing for me is that I have come across quite a few remasters and special edition releases from other bands and artists that were not as successful for the the label(s) as Styx. That is what makes this situation puzzling to me. Those other bands\artists where no longer the darlings of their respective labels either.

It will be interesting to see how the current royalty lawsuit between Styx and A&M\UNI will turn out.

[Toph]

If you read Sterling's book, you can pretty much guess why - after their heyday, and especially in the early 90s, they were not the favorite children. Labels have no real loyalty (for the most part) now that they're even more corporate entities than they ever were. The rarities are more demos and live shows; very few fully recorded band b-sides exist. I really only know of two, and one is purely in demo form. Styx, like Rush, really never recorded much outside of what got the albums. There are some interesting curios with outtakes that sound slightly different than their album counterparts, but unless you get into minutiae, not interesting for most folks. Live stuff would be interesting as well, plenty of that exists.

Technically, the 2CD Gold/CSA collection was considered a box set. So they got one ... just not what we as fans would have wanted.

I just hold out hope that as part of the new SHM-SACD/Platinum SHM-CD/SHM-CD series, we get a couple more Styx albums done.

It's been a long time since I read Sterling's book. But, I remember getting that impression. The interesting thing for me is that I have come across quite a few remasters and special edition releases from other bands and artists that were not as successful for the the label(s) as Styx. That is what makes this situation puzzling to me. Those other bands\artists where no longer the darlings of their respective labels either.

It will be interesting to see how the current royalty lawsuit between Styx and A&M\UNI will turn out.

What is the lawsuit between Styx and A&M about? When did that happen?

[FormerDJMike]

Dennis filed the suit on behalf of Styx so he must still have some type of interest in the band.

Styx has claimed that the band's label, A&M Records, has engaged in deceptive accounting practices in order to deprive them of royalties.
The band, according to TMZ, filed a lawsuit against A&M, alleging that "for every one dollar the band has received from A&M they should have been paid anywhere from two to five dollars." The lawsuit seeks unspecified damages.
The band also claims that the record company went as far as creating a "phony business model" in order to avoid paying them the money they were due. The funds Styx was shorted on, according to court documents, included monies from digital downloads and ringtones.

[StyxCollector]

Dennis filed the suit on behalf of Styx do he must stil have some type of interest in the band.

Styx has claimed that the band's label, A&M Records, has engaged in deceptive accounting practices in order to deprive them of royalties.
The band, according to TMZ, filed a lawsuit against A&M, alleging that "for every one dollar the band has received from A&M they should have been paid anywhere from two to five dollars." The lawsuit seeks unspecified damages.
The band also claims that the record company went as far as creating a "phony business model" in order to avoid paying them the money they were due. The funds Styx was shorted on, according to court documents, included monies from digital downloads and ringtones.

Most band divorces are never 100%, especially when there's things like back catalog involved where both parties have some financial interest.

Here's the article Mike references from last year: http://www.tmz.com/2013/02/27/styx-chea ... s-lawsuit/

And if you look at who is president ... 'nuff said.
http://www.bizapedia.com/ca/GELDERDISK-LTD.html
http://www.wysk.com/index/california/wo ... td/profile

JY may hate Dennis and could never be in the same room as him from a pure band setting, but I'm sure he's not complaining about this entanglement. Even if DDY profits the most from this, the others get some money, too.

[Boomchild]

Most band divorces are never 100%, especially when there's things like back catalog involved where both parties have some financial interest.

Here's the article Mike references from last year: http://www.tmz.com/2013/02/27/styx-chea ... s-lawsuit/

And if you look at who is president ... 'nuff said.
http://www.bizapedia.com/ca/GELDERDISK-LTD.html
http://www.wysk.com/index/california/wo ... td/profile

JY may hate Dennis and could never be in the same room as him from a pure band setting, but I'm sure he's not complaining about this entanglement. Even if DDY profits the most from this, the others get some money, too.

I've never seen public confirmation that it was DDY that brought the lawsuit. Is this just an assumption since DDY is still listed as President?

[StyxCollector]

Most band divorces are never 100%, especially when there's things like back catalog involved where both parties have some financial interest.

Here's the article Mike references from last year: http://www.tmz.com/2013/02/27/styx-chea ... s-lawsuit/

And if you look at who is president ... 'nuff said.
http://www.bizapedia.com/ca/GELDERDISK-LTD.html
http://www.wysk.com/index/california/wo ... td/profile

JY may hate Dennis and could never be in the same room as him from a pure band setting, but I'm sure he's not complaining about this entanglement. Even if DDY profits the most from this, the others get some money, too.

I've never seen public confirmation that it was DDY that brought the lawsuit. Is this just an assumption since DDY is still listed as President?

The corporation brought it, of which DDY is listed as the president. That stuff needs to be kept up to date as per state laws where you are incorporated. Assuming that JY & co are associated with Gelderdisk (and I would think they would be), there has to be some sort of voting which made them move forward internally in the company. In the original Styx lawsuit with Dennis in 1999, all of that was laid out in the partnership agreement from 1981 or so. In essence, all for one and one for all as long as there is majority. Since we don't have the Gelderdisk Ltd. agreement papers, we don't know what the structure is.

[Boomchild]

The corporation brought it, of which DDY is listed as the president. That stuff needs to be kept up to date as per state laws where you are incorporated. Assuming that JY & co are associated with Gelderdisk (and I would think they would be), there has to be some sort of voting which made them move forward internally in the company. In the original Styx lawsuit with Dennis in 1999, all of that was laid out in the partnership agreement from 1981 or so. In essence, all for one and one for all as long as there is majority. Since we don't have the Gelderdisk Ltd. agreement papers, we don't know what the structure is.

So then it could be JY, TS and CP that filed the suit with DDY being in agreement to do so. After all, it has been mentioned that JY was the "business man" of the group. He seems to be the one to sick his lawyers on anyone who he feels has did him wrong.

[ztyxlynne]

OMG! That means that they do communicate with each other! What could that lead too! Just kidding. Hope it works out for them.