This Is Very Sad

[Monker]

1. Styx vs. Dennis is getting pretty old. It's been almost 5 years now.

That doesn't seem to make much difference, does it? I mean, even you are letting yourself critique Styx every chance you get...even in this thread you go after JY. Then there is Froy who overflows with bitterness with every post.

2. Don't anyone compare the Styx situation to any break up of any band. Each band situation is completely different from each other.

You do realize that you are commanding, and not just suggesting, correct? What power do you have to enforce such an order? None?

I believe it's perfectly reasonable to compare Styx to Journey to LRB to whoever else anybody sees any comparable circumstances. In fact, I think it's a natural thing for people to do...and they should, unless ANDREW tells us not to.

3. Why would Steve Perry sue Journey?

For the same reason Dennis did - to stop them from touring without him. Instead, all of those issues were worked out before the tour or anything else...A smart move by both Journey and Perry. In the end, I think Perry ended up with a much sweeter deal then DeYoung did. Perry is basicaly still a silent partner in the Journey corporation...But, according to JY, DeYoung gave almost everything away.

He wasn't an original member of Journey.

Irrelevant...he was/is part owner of the Journey corporation, just as DeYoung was.

Did Steve Perry produce any of the Journey albums?

Also irrelevant...But, yes he did.

The Styx and Journey situations are very different from each other.

And, they are also similar.

4. Monker, how many times did you see Dennis in concert? It sounds like you've been to quite a knowing what he says at each concert.

Oh, come now...I've read the reviews,just as you have, on multiple forums. I know what goes on.

5. Why wouldn't Dennis sue the band?

Because the smart thing to do would be to get all of this worked out ahead of time, instead of retreating to the bat cave...The next smartest thing to do would be to confront the band after the tour was over and force their hands at that point. Dennis had all the cards (just as Perry did) he should have known that and used it to his advantage.

Monker, do you personally know what happened in 1999 & 2000? Were you there when they were talking about the tour? I don't think so. None of us were there. Do you actually know when Larry was contacted to tour with Styx? Do you know that there were a couple other singers contacted before Larry for auditions?

No I don't have personal information. I never claimed to. As for when Larry was contacted...I know Tommy talked to Jonathan Cain about replacing lead singers a couple months before the tour started...and some time before that he talked to Steve Smith about the Journey reunion tour. I would say they considered other singers...but from what I read on Tommy's old notes, it seemed they were always leaning towards Larry.

When a band records a reunion album like BNW (or TBF for Journey) there are all kinds of expectations being thrown around...Expectations from the label, the fans, the band members themselves...IMO, these things are set in motion long before the album release. The band is going to tour. When the lead singer decides he doesn't want to tour, or that he is 'sick' and can't tour, then the band moves on without him. It doesn't matter if the lead singer's name is Dennis DeYoung or Steve Perry, the band should do what it has to do - move on.

Late next year when Todd's gone, and they'll have a new drummer will that be the "best line up ever"? Yikes

You are jumping way too far into the future to make such statements with any accuracy or credibility. Styx could very easily take a break and give Tommy time for a DY album, or more time for Shaw/Blades...They would probably all enjoy the break, not just Todd. IMO, now is the perfect time for a DY album anyway...I would love it.

[sadie65]

This is silly. It has been 5 years. Dennis made a decision, as did the band. Was it the right decision? Who knows? I do know it splintered the fan base. All members of the band should take ownership for that. ALL OF THEM.

I don't know what I would have done. It's too simple to say he should ironed things out with the band before hand. I've seen print interviews over the last 5 years where each side has said different things. He says he tried to work things out for several months, only to not have his phone calls answered or returned. Thay say he didn't. We weren't there. Don't know, no longer care.

As to where his heart lies, or that of where the bands heart lies in terms of music, again we don't know. What we do know, is that each side is doing what they do best. Entertain their fans at these concerts. The band can claim it rocks out and is the best ever. From a marketing standpoint, that's what anyone would say. And yet, they did and do include ballads and sappy music as well, some of their own writing. Dennis includes rockers in his set list. He has admitted that he loves rock music, he just doesn't write it as easily as he does AC type music. So he plays to his strength. Nothing wrong with that.

Why do we need to keep rehashing it?

And, while there are some similarities between Journey and Styx, there aren't enough to make the comparison. But of course, that's just my opinion.

Peace,

Sadie

[Monker]

And, while there are some similarities between Journey and Styx, there aren't enough to make the comparison. But of course, that's just my opinion.

Really?

Well, then let's start from the beginning...

Both bands had a lead singer who 'took the reigns' from the rest of the band. Both bands ALLOWED their lead singer to empower himself within the band. Both bands talked about replacing the lead singer at the apex of their careers (Styx prior to Paradise Theatre and Journey following Frontiers). Both bands replaced a founding member with a new member who brought synergy and raised the writing to another level...Tommy for Styx, JC for Journey. Both bands' had a huge ballad hit that added to the tension within the band..."Babe" for Styx, "Open Arms" for Journey. Both had lead singers who instisted upon absolute control for at least one album...Kilroy for Styx, Raised on Radio for Journey...That absolute control broke the band up for years. Both had lead singers who delayed the reuniting of the band in favor of their own "personal" reasonss. Both had a reunion album but a lead singer who refused to, or could not, tour for 'health' reasons. Although they went about it in different ways, both bands replaced their lead singers so the band could tour. Both bands eventualy signed agreements to allow them to continue on without their lead singer. Both bands released a new album with the new lead singer. Both bands had lukewarm response (at best) to their album without their lead singer. Both bands continue to tour to this day without their original lead singers. Both bands have over zealous fans on both sides of the fence that cause problems on internet forums like this one.

Not enough simularities? Sorry, but I STRONGLY disagree...There are MORE then enough simularities to draw comparisons between the two bands.

[GaryS]

[yogi]

Monker, I agree with most of what you say. These bands will ALWAYS be talked about in the same breath. The similarities then and now are uncanny.

Finally, Michael vs Todd on the skins. I'll take Todd over ANY drummer out there. Michael is GREAT, but Todd has NO EQUAL. Sit close and watch him perform during the A&M Cyclomeledy. Its almost religious its soo damn powerful.

[GaryS]

The drumming thing is a stylistic choice. I CAN'T STAND Todd's drumming. It has that Rush vibe AND I hear a bit of a "drag" in his tempo sometimes. Grand Illusion is a great example of this. I would take Michael over Todd without a second thought. Plus Michael has a great singing voice.

[SuiteMadameBlue]

My opinion, I think Neal Peart is one, if not the best drummer

I also like Phil Collins and Tommy Lee's drumming

[swwskj]

Gary,

I gotta agree with Yogi here concerning Todd. Just check out the drum fill on the live version of half penny two penny. If that doesn't convince you, then we will have to agree to disagree.

Scott

[GaryS]

Hey Scott, I don't disagree with ya'll at all. He is technically fine (with the exception of his tempo dragging from time to time).
Here is a good example of what I am talking about. Guns n' Roses had a good rock drummer in Steve Adler. The next guy, Matt sumthin' was a metal drummer and I happen to not like metal drummers or the Neil Peart/Todd Sucherman type. It is all a personal thing. I just don't like that style.
Pete Thomas (from E. Costello and the Attractions)
Ringo
Charlie Watts... These are the guys that I prefer. I'll tell ya another GREAT one is Dave Grohl.
Great drum fills are cool but the drums on In My Life are classic and will never be out done.

[M. J. Perry]

Suite, the Seperate Ways video was shot on a wharf in New Orleans. That is where I live. If any of you are in town you should give me a holler and I will show you around. The CITA video was shot in New Orleans too. At the Saenger Theater. You know that pic of Styx and REO sitting together a loading dock from 99 or 00? That was taken at the back of the Saenger Theater. Also the cemetary pic that was Styx' promo shot a couple of years ago was shot here too.
There is also the famous Royal Orleans from the Led Zep song. Ray Davies lives here (from the Kinks). Jimmy Page has a son that lives here so here is here a lot. Met him once. This is a great rock town.

Doesn't the guy from Nine Inch Nails live in the French Quarter??

[M. J. Perry]

And another thing. Yes, JY has been quoted since last year that "this is the BEST line up ever". Um, he said that when Glen was in the band and now he's saying it with Ricky in the band. He says it with Chuck and he says it without Chuck. So which line-up is "the BEST line up ever"???? Does it depend on the week? Late next year when Todd's gone, and they'll have a new drummer will that be the "best line up ever"? Yikes

Doesn't every band think that the new line up is the best ever? Didn't Motley Crue think that when Vince Neil wasn't there? Didn't Van Halen think that when David Lee Roth wasn't there? When Sammy wasn't there? When David wasn't there again? When Gary wasn't there?

[GaryS]

Hey PJ... Trent Reznor lives in Uptown New Orleans, not in the FQ. His studio is on Magazine. I was in there once and it was very cool. He had almost every stomp box ever made. There were tons of them. Very cool. He also has a room (actually it is a huge hallway) with old classic arcade games lining the walls. I was playing robotron most of the time I was there.
Dave Pirner from Soul Asylum lives here too.
Lenny Kravitz and Bob Dylan have houses here although I have never seen Dylan in town. The list goes on and on.
and on.
and on.
and on.

[SuiteMadameBlue]

M.J. Perry says:

Doesn't every band think that the new line up is the best ever? Didn't Motley Crue think that when Vince Neil wasn't there? Didn't Van Halen think that when David Lee Roth wasn't there? When Sammy wasn't there? When David wasn't there again? When Gary wasn't there?

Yep, I agree with you, every band thinks that the new line up is the best ever. I'm sure they have to stay positive especially if there's a major change in the band - my opinion.

Gary, I forgot about Dave Grohl, he's good too. I didn't know all those musicians lived in that area. That's quite a list with the ones that you just mentioned.

[Adam]

If I may barge in here, and I'll try to stay civil/cordial, I think people overlook what they're reading when they read interviews and quotes.

Have you ever been interviewed?

I contend that it isn't like you're talking to your close friend or family member. YOU ARE WEARING YOUR GAME FACE. You are promoting your ideas/your product/yourself. If you are wise, you don't let on about some things, which could damage your cause, you will only say positive things, which present your case. It's sales.

And I believe Styx has ALWAYS tried to do this. I suspect they kept their differences away from interviews during their heyday. And then, eventually, the crap began to come out. It's been pretty sloppy ever since.

Have you ever had a news article written about you?

I believe those who are the subjects of articles rarely feel satisfied how the story comes out (unless it is hired "fluff").

JY is only going to say what serves his business - he is probably a businessman above all. Same with Dennis and Tommy. Unless lightning strikes again and one of their new projects eclipses Styx's past successes, they will most likely forever have to come up with answers regarding the "Styx Vs Dennis" controversy - which I'm sure JY at least must be fed up with (what's promotional about THAT story to EITHER side?).

So when JY says it's the best Styx yet, maybe he means it (I believe they ARE TECHNICALLY BETTER PLAYERS, though there are other ingredients which are of debatable importance), but he's certainly saying what he needs to say - what he SHOULD say at the time.

You think these guys love doing interviews? Why doesn't Tommy do any? Because they HATE it. It's work. Not the kind of work they love: making music. It is Politician's chore. Selecting the right words, giving the best spin...

They are out there trying to sell tickets (or albums).

If you're doing a show in Pittsburgh and the Promoter will give you a bonus if you sell a certain number of seats, you'll take an interview with the Pittsburgh-Whatever-Tribune in hopes that you'll get a prominently placed article that'll help sell tickets. Period. They don't do these things for the fun of it.

It seems obvious (to me) that John Curlewski was unhappy with Dennis' rise to power in Styx. They chose to not address that publicly. It seems obvious that the rest of band grew unhappy with Dennis' demand of power up to & during Kilroy. They chose to publicly address that as little as possible AT THE TIME. And now Dennis wants the world to come to HIS shows and JY wants the new STYX to return to their glory days.

They're just going to say what helps their cause(s).

My two cents. (Well, maybe three)

[bugsymalone]

Points well taken, Adam. And quite true, especially the "politician's chore" part.

That said, there are diplomatic ways to deal with questions that are asked and I feel, at least in some interviews, JY has been less than diplomatic. He has let his outsized ego come through. Dennis is a bit more subtle at getting his "digs" in, so-to-speak and, overall, much more the diplomat. And he deflects many things with his sense of humor.

EVERY interview is also very colored by the attitude of the interviewer and the mood of the interviewee. And then, the final product, of course, is what the paper, magazine, TV show, etc. wants it be.

And all THAT said, you are right, I am sure none of these guys likes to do interviews, a necessary evil for promotion, but they soldier on. They will always, always have to answer the Styx break-up questions and with a member as influential as Dennis was, the new lineup are forever going to be asked about his absence and how it affects the music. Thus, the "best lineup ever" responses. What else can they say?

As to the Henley reference, I am one of those that rues the day Dennis ever got Styx back together again. I would have supported a solo career for this talented man from 1984 until the day he finally decided not to do it anymore. I truly believe he could have made a go of it had his heart been truly in it.

My, oh maybe .04 cents?

(And a bit of a PS edit: The Henley reference was on another thread and was made by Ash. Sorry, Adam)

Bugsy

[ek88]

You know, as far as JY goes, it could just be that back in the day he thought a lot of the same things he does now, but was afraid to say anything. The thought of life without Styx was probably pretty scary back then to a relatively young man, so maybe he kept his mouth shut because he was afraid of what might happen to his meal ticket. Nowadays, after having lived a fair chunk of the last 20 years without the existence of Styx, not to mention being older and wiser, he's probably less concerned with any repercussions his comments may have.

Just some more loose change to add to the pile

[SuiteMadameBlue]

ek88, I have a binder of old articles about Styx from the 1970's to 1990's. Tommy and Dennis were interviewed the most. There aren't many from JY until now. Maybe he never had a chance to say what was on his mind back then, who knows.

Since this was brought up earlier in this "thread" or "assembly line" - LOL about Ted Nugent and the "Babe" incident, did you know that in July 2002 Ted and Dennis played back to back at a festival?

Saturday July 13
Kewadin Casino presents Ted Nugent, Dennis de Young and Molly Hatchet. Outdoor concert, 7 p.m.

If someone knows the details, please correct me if I'm wrong. But I read on another board (back in 2002), that Styx was scheduled for that night but for some reason, they couldn't make it. So Dennis filled the spot. How weird is that? I also read that Dennis and Ted were talking back stage for quite some time. If I can find the past posts, I'll post the info on here

[kiddo]

A few years back Dennis and Ted Nugent were also on the same What's My 20? the VH1 show where celebs picked their music favorites in a designated category. Anyone remember them dancing together at the very end of the show? <BG>
During the taping their wives sat with each other while the guys were working.

kiddo

[yogi]

I read, or heard somewhere that because of that VH1 show Dennis and Ted have become pretty good friends.

[SuiteMadameBlue]

I forgot all about that VH1 show That seems like a long time ago and it was just a few years ago.

Does anyone have that one on tape?

[bugsymalone]

I have also heard about this show, but I thought it was called "the List"....not sure about that.
I know I used to watch that one fairly often and it was a fun show. The one with Dennis and Ted must have been a trip! Of course, it was one of the ones I missed .

Bugsy

[piecesofeight]

Yes, I have it on tape.

[swwskj]

I've still got the tape of Tommy and Kevin Cronin on Rock 'n' Roll Jeopardy. As nice as it was to see them, they frickin' lost...

...to Young MC and Gerardo!!!

Yes that's "rico suave" Gerardo, not "Capone's vault" Gera-l-do.

As Dr. Smith would say, "The pain, the pain."

Scott

[kiddo]

I have also heard about this show, but I thought it was called "the List"....not sure about that.
I know I used to watch that one fairly often and it was a fun show. The one with Dennis and Ted must have been a trip! Of course, it was one of the ones I missed :roll: .

Bugsy

Yes, you're right it was called The List. <Smack to the head> Thanks for refreshing my at times less than dependable memory. :-)

I think if I may say so, there is more common ground between Dennis and Nugent than differences.

kiddo