Dennis & Damn Yankees & EOTC

[SuiteMadameBlue]

I decided to start a new "thread" about Dennis / Tommy / Damn Yankees and the articles that I'll be finding. I'll also find articles from Edge of The Century.

Here is another article that's right from Andrew here at Melodic Rock:

http://www.melodicrock.com/interviews/d ... young.html

[sadie65]

Oops, I just responded on the other thread. Sorry.

Sadie

[SuiteMadameBlue]

Here's a Damn Yankees interview during that time:

http://lockgen.com/damnyankees/articles ... y1990.html

Here's a JY interview during the RTP time:

http://www.jamesyoung.ws/intviews/mnews.htm

[Monker]

I see. Thanks for making that so clear. Of course, any person who has a contract to honor, they should apparently not honor it and reunite and forget the record company to which they made the contract?

That is not what I said. I said he would not commit to a Styx reunion. There is a difference between saying that and saying he should drop his solo committments and start Styx.

You know, Dennis has certainly made his fair share of mistakes, and can/is certainly arrogant, but please. Tommy has also done his fair share of things to hurt the band. Walking out on the band comes to mind.

I'm not even arguing that. I'm simply saying that stating that Tommy didn't want to be a part of Styx is about as truthful as saying that Dennis didn't.

The "fact" is TS did voluntarily walk away.

Yep. But, in the given situation, what would you have him do? And, how can you possibly say that he did not want to be a part of the band after REPEATEDLY contacting Dennis about reuniting Styx?

Great he wanted to reunite. Too bad it didn't work out. Dennis didn't walk out. They all have said he asked for more time. Certainly they are allowed to feel he cried wolf. But it is a "fact" he asked for more time and was denied by his band mates.

And, what would you have the band do after Dennis takes them to court? Also, talking about committments, why shouldn't the band follow thru on their committments to promote the BNW album and tour to support it? Why does it seem your opinion (and it seems Dennis', BTW) is that that Dennis solo committments are more important then Styx' committments to their label and fans?

Let's not keep debating this.

If I said that Dennis no longer wanted to be a part of Styx, and that is why he was let go....would you or others debate that, since you know the facts do not support it? The facts do NOT support the statement that Tommy did not want to be a part of Styx. That's the truth.

[sadie65]

Monker....try to understand. We are talking about 2 different time periods. I understand TS walked away and then I understand he wanted to come back. At one time he didn't want to be a part of Styx. He walked away. Several articles were just posted about it in this thread. When he wanted to come back, Dennis was committed to other projects.

I can say TS didn't want to be a part of Styx because he said so. Put it into the time frame. Whether he decided to come back wasn't at issue. He himself said he didn't want to be a part of Styx. Dennis didn't say that. he said he had other commitments.

I am not saying reuniting with Styx was any more important than honoring a commitment to a solo project. Dennis' solo projects were not the reason for his asking for more time for BNW and you know it. Not even worth going there. I didn't say the band shouldn't honor their commitments to tour to support BNW. HE never said he didn't want to honor those same commitments. Nice try at twisiting that though.

Read those articles. While TS did eventually want to return to Styx, at one point he did not. The FACTS support that.

Peace,

Sadie

[bugsymalone]

Thanks Sadie. I posted on the old thread about this, but you have stated it well.

As I said, I was not talking about 1988. I was talking about 1983. Tommy wanted out. Pure and simple. And he left. Voluntarily.

2003. Glen wanted out and he left. Voluntarily.

1999. Dennis did NOT want out. The band left HIM. End of story.

There is a difference.

As Sadie put it:

Read those articles. While TS did eventually want to return to Styx, at one point he did not. The FACTS support that.

Bugsy

[yogi]

I just dubbed a copy of one of my Edge Of The Century boots that I own for a fellow Styx fan here. Late yesterday I watched the entire show for probably the very first time. The concert is from I believe St. Louis. The venue appears to be full and the place is Rockin. EVERYONE seems to be having a blast. Its a pretty good bootleg of a GREAT show. I wanted to print the set list here. 1991 is a looong time ago but when I saw this show in Minneapolis the set was somewhat different??? I think?? Here it is:

Best Of Times- short taped intro as band takes the stage
1. Edge Of The Century
2. Rockin The Paradise- Band Intro by Dennis
3. Love Is The Ritual
4. The Best of Times
5. Snowblind
6. Suite Madame Blue
7. Blue Collar Man ( Glen sings ALL Of Tommys Songs)
8. JY Guitar solo leads into a JY(Styx?) song NEVER heard before leading into
9. Homewrecker
10. Show Me The Way- then JY Chuck & John exit stage
11. All In A Days Work* ( Glen & Dennis only) JY,Chuck & John come back
12. Too Much Time On My Hands
13. World Tonight
14. Babe
15. Lady
16. Miss America
17. Come Sail Away ( show closes)
18. Renegade (encore)
19. Not Dead Yet ( Final encore show ends)
*=best in show my opinion

Great Show!!! Glen and Dennis both sing lead on 8 songs The entire Edge CD is covered minus Carrie Ann, Back To Chicago,& Love At First Sight all Dennis led tunes. Kind of makes me doubt about Dennis being such a control freak during this portion of the band.

Almost forgot before The band starts playing Come Sail Away Dennis talks about he, Chuck & John forming the band way back when in Chicago. Its a really good funny tribute to Chuck and John and a great intro into that song.

[Adam]

Here's my prolonged differentiation, worth noting, on the endless argument.

It's true that Tommy and Glen left the band voluntarily, while Dennis was booted. It's been said here that it's two different things.

But there's always more to a three dimensional story than can be put into such simple terms. (Have you ever been part of, or close to, a friend's divorce? Each side is so damn righteous. But the reality often falls somewhere in the middle.)

Q: Why would John Curlewski want to quit the band?

A: We know the "Official" "Press Release" answer, which may or may not be completely true, that he wanted to spend more time with his family. I'll bet it also had to with the changing chemistry of the band.

Q: Why would Tommy want to quit the band?
A: Because he was very unhappy. Not because he didn't like being so successful. Not because he hated touring. Because he got tired of taking direction from Dennis DeYoung, who had, by this point, taken over.

Q: Why would Glen want to quit the band?
A: Again, the official word is he was tired of touring, but his Melodic Rock interview hints there could've been more to it as well. (Keep in mind he left the band twice. I recall hearing very little about his first exit.)

Q: Why would Dennis want to quit the band, when he was in charge? It was HIS BAND. He had manipulated the entire scenario so that he was in charge. When he wanted to impose his artistic visions, the others went along, spending equally on expensive hair-brained schemes that glorified him (watch the intro movie to the Kilroy tour and ask yourself how Chuck, John and JY might've felt about equally sharing in that $1 million cost. Think about how they took that tour into small theaters at Dennis' insistance, only to lose money in the end.) He stopped co-producing the records with the others. He renegotiated so to get paid more than the others. He had veto power over song selection and touring.
I don't think Curlewski, Shaw, Burtnik or any of the others ever had that kind of power in the band.

Well, Shaw does now actually.

A: He didn't.

And the band got tired of waiting. Dennis came up with the perfect excuse to impede the band's progress, a mystery disease. "Just give me time" he asked, but how long? Until a miracle cure was found to a disease that was undiagnosable - or until he felt like "getting better". DeYoung strikes me as a manipulator. I've known people like him who, if they can't get their way, will invent a method to get themselves whatever they want.

Of course, I could be wrong, and I'm certain a few heads are turning red while reading this...

[Ash]

LOL... from the interview... about Dennis' web site

It was originally called Grand Illusion Music.Com because somebody had taken my name. Now that's been turned over to me in the last 2 weeks. The fellow turned it over to me very nicely.

"The fellow" was me

glad I could help DDY at the time... little known fact, I also owned "tommyshaw.com" at one time.

[swwskj]

Hey Ash,

Perhaps you should add "I enjoy bragging" to your tagline too!

Did Dennis even offer up a signed album or something? Kinda like if you'd caught a homerun ball. Just curious.

Scott

[Ash]

He gave me the $70 that it cost for me to register it (thats what it cost at the time) and I also got a very nice personal/hand-written letter fron Dennis along with a copy of Ultimate Collection personally autographed. I still have a copy of the check. I wasn't going to cash it... but the wife did by mistake. I was just honored to be able to provide it to him.

The signature on the CD reads "To Michael, Thanks for all your help. Dennis DeYoung"

I was going to make a fan site of it, but never was able to find the time so I just held on to it as to preserve the "integrity" of the name. Same was true of when I held TommyShaw.com.... on that one I just let it expire. I assume Tommy's web master picked up the name after I had let it expire.

[classicstyxfan]

So Ash, Let's see if I have this straight....you held on to dennisdeyoung.com to preserve it's integrity, but you let
tommyshaw.com lapse ????

There are some who might read quite alot into those 2 moves !

DISCLAIMER the preceeding post was in no way meant to belittle, beleager or just plain offend or make anyone mad......it was written purely for the amusement of the posting party, and pehaps for anyone else who might visit this sight with ANY TRACE OF A SENSE OF HUMOR !!!!!!

The author wishes to express his "sincere" apologies to all humorless people out there who may not enjoy this post.

[yogi]

Hell, If ONLY I would have known...... Back in 1998 I was setting up a site StyxWorld. com or org. Back then, The Spice Girls were taking off. When their movie SpiceWorld hit the theatres I decided to move on to better things. I kind of felt alot of people didnt give Styx the credit they truly deserved, and I sure didnt want to lump them in with Sugar& Posh& Scary,The Indian, The Construction & The Fireman(or was that Froy's Village People web site?). Who can keep track????? Live and Learn!!!!!!! WELCOME TO HOLLYWOOD!!

[Ash]

So Ash, Let's see if I have this straight....you held on to dennisdeyoung.com to preserve it's integrity, but you let
tommyshaw.com lapse ????

There are some who might read quite alot into those 2 moves !

Just to clarify.... I had planned to build a DDY fan site. I registered both DDY's and TS's name at the same time. At that point, the shit was *starting* to hit the fan, but we weren't in full fecal spray mode yet. I figured it'd be a good idea to snap them both up (given the domain squatting nature of the time) and wait for the phone to ring.

At least I knew my motives... and that if DDY or TS ever called and say "hey, I want my name" I'd have no problem handing it over to them.

When the mess happened, I sided with Dennis. The reasons aren't important, I just felt "more connected" to Dennis having met him and talked with him prior. I renewed the domain when it came up for renewal and I let the shaw one expire because I didn't feel like paying for it.

I make no illusions about my allegience (no pun intended). I still enjoy Tommy's solo records and all the Styx stuff... I just find it hard to stomach everything that has happened since 1999. In fact, I'm on record saying that 7 Deadly Zens is perhaps the best solo record from any of the three Stygians who made solo records. Heck, I think it even surpasses Damn Yankees.

Just to clarify also, I'm not mad by your insinuation. I just figured I'd clarify since you asked. The good news is that Tommy and Dennis are both in control of their own domain names on the net... and that was my goal... so if my contribution means anything to anyone, thats great. I was just trying to be a decent human being.

[Monker]

Geez, we were going on in the other thread is about EotC and Glen and you bring up Tommy's exit from Styx and I am supposed to think of 1983? Was Kilroy even mentioned in that thread? Of course Tommy left on his own after Kilroy. But, the band didn't contue on either...like they did following BNW. What kinda comparison is that? What is your point? Following Kilroy, Tommy was so important to Styx that Dennis just couldn't go on without him?

Tommy wanted to be a part of Styx and several times he asked Dennis about a reunion. Dennis wouldn't commit and told him to do DY instead. By the time Dennis is ready to concede his solo career, Tommy was in DY and was replaced without a fuss.

Thanks Sadie. I posted on the old thread about this, but you have stated it well.

As I said, I was not talking about 1988. I was talking about 1983. Tommy wanted out. Pure and simple. And he left. Voluntarily.

2003. Glen wanted out and he left. Voluntarily.

1999. Dennis did NOT want out. The band left HIM. End of story.

There is a difference.

As Sadie put it:

Read those articles. While TS did eventually want to return to Styx, at one point he did not. The FACTS support that.

Bugsy

[DeeJaySTYX]

Here's my prolonged differentiation, worth noting, on the endless argument.

It's true that Tommy and Glen left the band voluntarily, while Dennis was booted. It's been said here that it's two different things.

But there's always more to a three dimensional story than can be put into such simple terms. (Have you ever been part of, or close to, a friend's divorce? Each side is so damn righteous. But the reality often falls somewhere in the middle.)

Q: Why would John Curlewski want to quit the band?

A: We know the "Official" "Press Release" answer, which may or may not be completely true, that he wanted to spend more time with his family. I'll bet it also had to with the changing chemistry of the band.

(JC wanting to be with his family was part of the problem...The management screwed him out of money of earlier recordings because of his age and the management was dipping into his part of the band accounts to pay for expenses...)

Q: Why would Tommy want to quit the band?
A: Because he was very unhappy. Not because he didn't like being so successful. Not because he hated touring. Because he got tired of taking direction from Dennis DeYoung, who had, by this point, taken over.

(Direction???? What direction are we talking about???? I think the control comments are way over rated...Dennis had Babe, First Time, and Borrowed Time while Tommy had Love In The Mid-night, Never Say Never, and Lights...So what are we controlling here..Tommy had his Rock N Roll... And keep in mind that Tommy based his Solo Albums on the Music that he supposedly left the band for(Lonely School and Count On You come to mind)...Side note that he was battling drug addiction at the time he left the band...)

Q: Why would Glen want to quit the band?
A: Again, the official word is he was tired of touring, but his Melodic Rock interview hints there could've been more to it as well. (Keep in mind he left the band twice. I recall hearing very little about his first exit.)

(Both sides verified that the constant touring was taking Glen away from his family...Glen said that he had to put his children through school and he wanted to do a solo album....He had mainly positive things to say about Styx but:"In order for a song to become a hit with Styx it has to be sung by Tommy Shaw or Dennis Deyoung," or something along those lines is a very interesting comment..I agree with Andrew at the beginning of the article that he said that Glen's talents were not used enough in Styx..I also think that Glen's songs on Cyclorama and on Edge with the exception of World Tonight could have been hits( My opinion)...)


Q: Why would Dennis want to quit the band, when he was in charge? It was HIS BAND. He had manipulated the entire scenario so that he was in charge. When he wanted to impose his artistic visions, the others went along, spending equally on expensive hair-brained schemes that glorified him (watch the intro movie to the Kilroy tour and ask yourself how Chuck, John and JY might've felt about equally sharing in that $1 million cost. Think about how they took that tour into small theaters at Dennis' insistance, only to lose money in the end.) He stopped co-producing the records with the others. He renegotiated so to get paid more than the others. He had veto power over song selection and touring.
I don't think Curlewski, Shaw, Burtnik or any of the others ever had that kind of power in the band.

Well, Shaw does now actually.

A: He didn't.

(First, it doesn't matter who was in charge during the Kilroy tour, they all agreed to it, they should take a share of responsibility for the monetary loss...We're not talking about 5 year olds here, We're talking about 5 grown men at the peak or just beyond of the peak of their success...If they lost money because of Dennis talked( and the key word is talked) the rest of the band to performing in small theatres then that is a band decision..The Point is, unless Dennis held a gun to their heads, they could of said no...
Second, Do we have any proof that anybody else co-produce the albums along with Dennis besides the credit "Produced By Styx"???? Remember Dennis supposedly was fired because of writing Babe and releasing it as a single which went to number 1 and writing first time and adding a soft element to the band which supposedly caused the split in the band...I think this goes without saying why Dennis wanted veto power on band decisions...And if he's doing more, why shouldn't he get more....)


And the band got tired of waiting. Dennis came up with the perfect excuse to impede the band's progress, a mystery disease. "Just give me time" he asked, but how long? Until a miracle cure was found to a disease that was undiagnosable - or until he felt like "getting better". DeYoung strikes me as a manipulator. I've known people like him who, if they can't get their way, will invent a method to get themselves whatever they want.

(But wait, Tommy and JY's story of the Big Three break up keeps changing,

First, Dennis was warned and he didn't want to commit to a tour because he was ill...

Second, Tommy said in another interview that Dennis wasn't comfortable at what he was doing so he decided to step out...

Third," Dennis made Ten From Broadway for a solo album in 1994 and it was nowhere on the radar of what music I wanted to do so when Tommy came back we decided to make a change"(from the last JY interview)....It sounds like a premeditative motive to get rid of somebody you don't care for...)

Of course, I could be wrong, and I'm certain a few heads are turning red while reading this...

Hey, nobody's perfect and all we can offer is the way we see things..What really matters is the music and over all the Styx legacy has been a great one....


DeeJay....

[Adam]

"it doesn't matter who was in charge during the Kilroy tour, they all agreed to it, they should take a share of responsibility for the monetary loss...We're not talking about 5 year olds here, We're talking about 5 grown men at the peak or just beyond of the peak of their success...If they lost money because of Dennis talked( and the key word is talked) the rest of the band to performing in small theatres then that is a band decision..The Point is, unless Dennis held a gun to their heads, they could of said no... "

True. And then, when the band DOES take a stand and fires the leader diva guy who has all the big ideas, wants the lion's share of the money and is a major obstacle in the primary way the others can make money money, they get rid of him...then the pro-DeYoung fans scream that it's unfair. If you love Dennis, the only thing you will accept from Styx is what he wants to do, and anything to the contrary is seen as some act of unfair mutiny.

I think they ARE grown ups who got rid of the baby.

"Do we have any proof that anybody else co-produce the albums along with Dennis besides the credit 'Produced By Styx'????"

First, DeYoung is the only guy who has said that it was always him Producing. Just because he said it, that means it's true?

Second, the opening track on EOTC was written and close to entirely recorded before DeYoung ever HEARD the song. It was a completed recording. They took that recording, added a few overdubs and mixed it. Then DeYoung took credit as Producer. This tells us we're talking about a guy who will take credit for whatever he can.

Third, Cyclorama sounds awfully damn good to me. Put it up against DeYoung's thin, wimpy tracks on Brave New World. Cyclorama was Produced by JY & Tommy. Dennis' tinky drum machine tunes on BNW are all Dennis.

As for reasons why Dennis was really booted, there were probably a million, including some we'll never know (don't think for a second that there are no Styx secrets kept from we the public). Firing that guy was a giant thing to do, they must've had a ton of reasons and they must've tried to find decent ways to discuss the action in interviews - things like "Dennis wasn't comfortable", which is half true, he didn't want to tour and he feined sickness to get out of it (be it psychosomatic or not).

Bottom line was he was a problem. The guy who wanted complete control wasn't writing good, his ideas were lousy, he was very expensive, and he was against touring (the way those lesser paid than he could make money). Who needs that? Appartently not Tommy and the others.

[sadie65]

Wow. That's an interesting perspective. Not one I agree with to be sure, but I think that pretty slanted. And isn't that the problem/issue here? we all look at this from different angles and try to make our case. And of course we all feel we've made our cases.

Isn't it time we basically just accept that each side had faults? You can call DDY a control freak, I can say TS & JY were whiners. We can cite chapter and verse specifics to make our cases. Won't change a doggone thing. And both will be right and wrong. And it seems to me, the principals in this whole debacle have made their decisions and moved forward with them. What you call people crying "unfair" and a skewed vision of what Styx is, others would call what draws them to Styx. It's personal choice.

Must we keep rehashing this over and over? Come on, both "sides" have stuff going on. Let's just be happy for them and accentuate the positives where we can.

Peace,

Sadie

[Adam]

Well said, Sadie. I whole heartedly agree.

However, I just can't help but speak up when the jabs are tossed up again - by one side. I involuntarily react to the "very slanted" in kind.

Both sides suck, by the way. There are no angels in the cast of Styx, which I suspect is harder for DeYoung fans to admit than others. We're talking about human nature here, and everyone is flawed in some area. Add in fame and money and it usually really gets ugly.

By the way, I've always felt the DeYoungian fans remind me of DeYoung, self-important, self-righteous and pompous... And on the Shaw/Young side of the fence the fans tend to appear like Tommy & JY as well: childish, naive & arrogant...

[MusicTime666]

Gowan rules!!!!

[classicstyxfan]

Adam,

wow........interesting take on each side sharing characteristics with the faction of the band they support.

I'm wondering if you believe that most of the posters here are squarely in one camp or the other ? and/or can a person be more of a fan of one members songs without being on that members side of the band politics ?

I personally feel like I am on both sides as far as enjoying the music, but a small part of me wants to hold on to the ( completely irrational ) hope they could one day mend fences and put out more great music......

looking forward to your answers..... -Classic

[bugsymalone]

the DeYoungian fans remind me of DeYoung, self-important, self-righteous and pompous

Yep. That's us all right!!!

Bugsy

[DeeJaySTYX]

"it doesn't matter who was in charge during the Kilroy tour, they all agreed to it, they should take a share of responsibility for the monetary loss...We're not talking about 5 year olds here, We're talking about 5 grown men at the peak or just beyond of the peak of their success...If they lost money because of Dennis talked( and the key word is talked) the rest of the band to performing in small theatres then that is a band decision..The Point is, unless Dennis held a gun to their heads, they could of said no... "

(I stand by this statement because I think they all should take responsability for the lost money and the fact that Dennis had to talk the rest of the band into this(these) idea(s) suggests that Dennis didn't have the control over the band like some people think in labeling Dennis a control freak....)


True. And then, when the band DOES take a stand and fires the leader diva guy who has all the big ideas, wants the lion's share of the money and is a major obstacle in the primary way the others can make money money, they get rid of him...then the pro-DeYoung fans scream that it's unfair. If you love Dennis, the only thing you will accept from Styx is what he wants to do, and anything to the contrary is seen as some act of unfair mutiny.

(Adam, We all have our views to the break-up wheather you agree or disagree..I think Dennis, JY, and Tommy are all leader diva guys that could of handle things differently...I actually grew up on Styx with Tommy being my favorite personality with Dennis coming in a close second, but knowing the music was like a triangle with Dennis on one side, Tommy/ JC on the second side, and JY on the third side with John and Chuck mixed in...I still enjoy the music including Cyclorama and Dennis's solo material....)

I think they ARE grown ups who got rid of the baby.

(I think they are all babies that still have some growing up to do...)

"Do we have any proof that anybody else co-produce the albums along with Dennis besides the credit 'Produced By Styx'????"

First, DeYoung is the only guy who has said that it was always him Producing. Just because he said it, that means it's true?

(Well, that's what I mean...Nobody is denying that Dennis was the only producer...And if that is the case, what does that say about Dennis who actually produced the albums and gave credit to the band....)

Second, the opening track on EOTC was written and close to entirely recorded before DeYoung ever HEARD the song. It was a completed recording. They took that recording, added a few overdubs and mixed it. Then DeYoung took credit as Producer. This tells us we're talking about a guy who will take credit for whatever he can.

(If that is the case then Glen should have done that song on a solo album...The fact is that Glen contribued that song knowing that Dennis was going to be the producer of the album....Also, another point to consider, Killing That Thing You Love was also a completed song before Tommy and JY ever herd it...Are you going to say that Tommy and JY are taking credit for whatever they can...No I don't think so...)

Third, Cyclorama sounds awfully damn good to me. Put it up against DeYoung's thin, wimpy tracks on Brave New World. Cyclorama was Produced by JY & Tommy. Dennis' tinky drum machine tunes on BNW are all Dennis.

( I agree that Cyclorama is a good album..But why are you comparing it to BNW..Dennis's songs on BNW were missing the influence of JY and Tommy because the three didn't want to work together...Dennis did his recordings in Chicago and Tommy and JY did their work in Los Angeles and they remixed the album back and forth between the two cities, not a good way to do an album....
Again I blame all three for not working together and it goes back to my previous point that they all have some more growing up to do...)

As for reasons why Dennis was really booted, there were probably a million, including some we'll never know (don't think for a second that there are no Styx secrets kept from we the public). Firing that guy was a giant thing to do, they must've had a ton of reasons and they must've tried to find decent ways to discuss the action in interviews - things like "Dennis wasn't comfortable", which is half true, he didn't want to tour and he feined sickness to get out of it (be it psychosomatic or not).

(After watching behind the music I get the impression that something more personal happened between the frontmen but they choosed not to tell if it actually happened that way...I don't know, my instincts could be wrong, but I can only comment on what they're telling us...For example, Tommy accusing Dennis of straying into "Barry Manilow Territory" and then basing his(Tommy's) solo albums on that very same music..)

(Firing Dennis was a giant thing...Tommy said in one interview that they knew they had made a unpopular decision and they had to bite the bullet and replace Dennis and JY saying that they need to rescent the world with this new line-up...I respect those statements because it's true but the statement that Dennis stepped out is not entirely true...And Dennis did a broadway album and it is not anywhere on the radar on what I want to do(JY's interview)??? Again, grow up....)

Bottom line was he was a problem. The guy who wanted complete control wasn't writing good, his ideas were lousy, he was very expensive, and he was against touring (the way those lesser paid than he could make money). Who needs that? Appartently not Tommy and the others.

Wait a minute here...Jy said in another interview that they wanted Dennis to tour(changing stories), Dennis said no, and they had no choice to replace him which suggests that the comments that Dennis had lousy ideas, his writing wasn't good, he wanted complete control, he was a problem, and he was very expensive are not valid points...

Ask yourself did Jy and Tommy wanted Dennis to tour to support the Brave New World album...The answer should be yes because both sides said this...Also very interesting that DDY said on a radio interview that if He had not became ill that They would still be together and JY said on an interview that if DDY had toured when he was asked to that they would be still together.....

Now as far as taking jabs...I have been in this forum 16 months and both sides of the fan base have taken jabs... I can honestly say that your take on the fans personalities is right on with a few exceptions..Good call Adam...And the politics of the band sucks....The music is why I am a fan....


DeeJay....

[swwskj]

Although the opinions stated throughout this topic have run from one extreme to another concerning the break-up and consequent reunions of the band, one thing remains constant. Or nearly so. That is that Styx's heyday and most influential period ended sometime around 1982.

Most people agree that Dennis was valuable up until that point, regardless of how you feel about him now. The likewise is true for Tommy and JY.

When it came to classic Styx, the whole was greater than the SUM of the parts. Now all we have is SOME of the parts.

Scott

[Adam]

Classicstyxfan asked if I believed most of the posters here are in one camp or the other. Not that it should matter, but I feel like the pendulum swings back and forth a bit. Certainly, both sides have their arguments.

And then there are fans who go done the middle, accepting the unfortunate bickering and changes, but savor all the highlights of the best of each line up. I suggest these are the most mature posters, and I’m embarrassed to admit that everytime there’s a “Dennis was Styx” post I turn into a child myself and feel an urge to challenge it.

As for my comparing Productions, Dennis’ tracks on BNW were produced by Dennis – the guy DeeJaySTYX believes Produced ALL Styx albums. I raise those tracks to prove the point of how self-sufficient DDY is as a sole Producer AND to show my doubt as to his Producing Styx alone all those years. I believe they Produced their records as credited, collaboratively, and the sound of “Cyclorama” versus “Hip Hop Hipocracy” is proof that DDY isn’t the only Producer in that band, in fact, he’s not all that great! Again, I point out the “Love Is The Ritual” story. DeYoung was nowhere near that record when most of it was created. (And by the way, DeeJay, Glen DID release that on a solo album, if I’m not mistaken.)

Regarding the seeming “changing of stories” I think we’re ALL guilty of putting a lot into these interviews and not using our imaginations as to what’s being left OUT. Why would JY wake up early in the morning to call a radio station, only to be continually asked questions about a guy who sued him and was fired 5+ years ago? TO PROMOTE HIS BUSINESS. Therefore, his interviews, replies, quotes, etc. are mostly by a guy selling his product (think infomercial), and occaisionally he begrudgingly answers the annoying questions about his ex-partner with quick half stories, economically stated to be easily digested.

I say all the varying reasons given are true.

Think about the people you work with. Think about members of your family. Think about your siblings, your spouse. I’ll bet you have gripes with almost each one. You can choose to tell them how you feel or talk about them to others behind their back. But I bet more often than not, it’s wisest to just plain keep your mouth shut.

Until the day they really piss you off. Maybe they offend you, pass over you. Maybe they fire you. Maybe you get divorced. At that point, you let go and the floods gates are opened. Everything that’s ever driven you nuts about the person becomes another topic you wanna point out to everyone else around you.

JY said Dennis “chose” to step out of the band? It’s true to a certain extent. Just as Tommy, Chuck, John P, and JY must ‘grow up’ (to put it in DeeJaySTYX terms) and accept the consequences of going along with Dennis’ costly and imploding Kilroy concepts, so should Dennis step up and accept that there is risk in renegotiating. He changed the nature of the band contracturally. He insisted on being the Producer (no doubt getting paid a Producer’s fee the others didn’t share), insisted on no longer sharing Publishing revenues, insisted on veto power, insisted on when and how he wanted the band to tour. He had worked it out that the lion’s share of the money went to him. After all that, there was most likely resentment from the others. Yes, they agreed to it, but only because they compromised in order to continue their career.

The other members of Styx felt they had a right to tour, a right to promote their new music, at a time when South Park, VW & and Adam Sandler were setting the stage for a possible “comeback”.

They also were tired with dealing with the loose screw with all the money who had become more about holding them back than pressing on.

It’s probably true that, had Dennis agreed to tour, he might still be in the band (hypothetical and pointless to debate.

However, he said no and contracted the perfect “hypochondriac’s excuse”. So, the camel’s back was broken. Putting up with lousy ideas, bland writing, control/power issues, a problematic nature, on top of his counter-productive attitude was simply no longer worth it.

Again, there were many reasons they dumped him. And many mistakes he made, and there were consequences for his actions.

Then, when the interviewers asked the band about him, little bits of how they felt surfaced slowly.

Ultimately, I quote Sadie, “Isn't it time we basically just accept that each side had faults? You can call DDY a control freak, I can say TS & JY were whiners. We can cite chapter and verse specifics to make our cases. Won't change a doggone thing. And both will be right and wrong. And it seems to me, the principals in this whole debacle have made their decisions and moved forward with them. What you call people crying ‘unfair’ and a skewed vision of what Styx is, others would call what draws them to Styx. It's personal choice.”

Then again, if we DID accept it, what would there be left for us to to discuss?

[classicstyxfan]

Adam:

Then again, if we DID accept it, what would there be left for us to to discuss?

Answer: good question ! at the rate all of these guys are putting out new music, we'd be left with the "list" and "hypothetical" threads...which are OK once in a while, but get old quickly.

[DeeJaySTYX]

Adam, I guessed you missed my explaination of what Styx is to me...I pretty much stayed in the middle and when it comes to these six individuals making music with new albums, I'll show my respect the only way I know how, by buying their music and attending their concerts...

As far as what I believe on who produced the albums, I don't know for sure because I wasn't in the studio when these albums where made, were you???? All I asked if there is any other proof besides the Produced by Styx credit...Dennis in his interview takes credit for producing( actually I believe Dennis was head producer and Tommy and JY were co-producers) all the albums and nobody seems to be denying it...You can make all the comparisons all you want but that doesn't neccessarily make it true ....Thanks for saying that I believe Dennis produced all the albums...
And again Cyclorama vs. Brave New World is a bad comparison...You are comparing apples to oranges, band unity to total anarchy...Brave New World was the source of the break-up....DDY knew that BNW was a bad album and he wanted Tommy and JY to go back to the studio to redo the album but they want no part of it...At least JY in his last interview was being more truthful and respectful from his point of view on most counts but there will always be some doubt of credibilty because of their changing stories....Funny how you mention "Hip Hop Hipocracy" and not "Goodbye Roseland".....And Tommy had some bad songs on that album as well...."Just Fell In" is one that comes to mind....
As far as the "Love is the Ritual" story ,again Glen contributed that song knowing that DDY was the producer...Whether it was already complete or not it doesn't make a difference...Glen contributed that song so it can get national exposure and Edge Of The Century was on opprotunity for that song to make it to an album...(Oh Adam, You're are not mistaken....Love Is The Ritual did make it to a solo album...The album was Retrospective and the album was released in 1996 in Germany.....)
Now as far as the last interview again I think JY was more truthful and respectful from his point of view with most of his comments of the break-up..The only problem I had was with the comment of Dennis going to do his thing in 83 when asked about John Panozzo's Death...Now if he would of said Dennis and Tommy went and did there own thing I would have had no problem except the DJ's making total asses of themselves....

As far as family problems, I don't go public with my problems...If I ever got a divorce, I wouldn't go to VH1 for an episode of Behind The Marriage and drag my former wife through the mud publicly.. And Work..I'm glad you brought that up...I invite JY, Tommy, Dennis or any other band members to do what I have done and put up with for the last 20 years between 2 companies...I now work for a company for the last 9 years where seniority and busting your ass to get the job done means absolutely nothing....Where your shift preferences are denied even though you have considerable amount of time in the company only for them to hire temporaries and put them on the shift you want and to do the same job...But I can't quit because I have considerable amount of time in the company and of the economic situation....

The other members of Styx felt they had a right to tour, a right to promote their new music, at a time when South Park, VW and Adam Sandler were setting the stage for a possible "comeback".

Adam, I have always said that the two parties conflicted when it came to touring and JY's responses again were honest and true from his point of view....
As far as the Dennis was STYX comment, I would agree that that is an inaccurate assessment....But I really don't care for the DDY bashing...

The bottom line is that I look foward to Styx's new CD, and I look foward to Dennis's new CD and Movie....That is where I will be at....


DeeJay......

[piecesofeight]

Dennis has a lot going on right now and only time will tell here, but success is what it is to each of us.
Things aren't going to be just all about 'Dennis' anymore either. It won't be just him on the bill. His cd, and wait for more , will be released now on a larger scale.
I sort of believe that he should have, and wish he would have just continued to do things on his own and was surprised when I found out he wasn't. With how the biz is today, how Dennis is, and the point he is at in his life-I was just surprised on one end, but on the other too, I totally understood the motives.
The movie coming out next year is going to be huge. Even if/when the typical things get cut that always do, being that one of the main characters is a HUGE Styx fan-this one thing once again is going to rock the world of 'Styx.' How ironic that being it's about 'Styx' stuff and not Dennis' sole stuff, that they chose to use Dennis and mostly his songs. I understand why it was done this way and how it happened, but........
That was HUGE for Dennis to be on Rockline.
RIGHT NOW, he alone has so much going on than Styx does.
Dennis has always had good timing and this is also due to the perfectionist in him.
For the most part, it's been what Dennis created in Styx that keeps coming back to be a part of 'pop culture.'
All I know is that I can speak that Dennis is a very happy man and that's what really matters. Being happy plays such a huge roll in so many things in our life. I can not really speak for the others.
Do any of us really want to be as bitter as JY is! I think not!
I don't wish anything bad on Dennis or Styx. I even pray that JY will get to a 'happy' place someday and find some piece/peace. Peace with everuthing to is sooooo important!
God, love, peace and happiness.

[MusicTime666]

Dennis has a lot going on right now and only time will tell here, but success is what it is to each of us.
Things aren't going to be just all about 'Dennis' anymore either. It won't be just him on the bill. His cd, and wait for more , will be released now on a larger scale.
I sort of believe that he should have, and wish he would have just continued to do things on his own and was surprised when I found out he wasn't. With how the biz is today, how Dennis is, and the point he is at in his life-I was just surprised on one end, but on the other too, I totally understood the motives.
The movie coming out next year is going to be huge. Even if/when the typical things get cut that always do, being that one of the main characters is a HUGE Styx fan-this one thing once again is going to rock the world of 'Styx.' How ironic that being it's about 'Styx' stuff and not Dennis' sole stuff, that they chose to use Dennis and mostly his songs. I understand why it was done this way and how it happened, but........
That was HUGE for Dennis to be on Rockline.
RIGHT NOW, he alone has so much going on than Styx does.
Dennis has always had good timing and this is also due to the perfectionist in him.
For the most part, it's been what Dennis created in Styx that keeps coming back to be a part of 'pop culture.'
All I know is that I can speak that Dennis is a very happy man and that's what really matters. Being happy plays such a huge roll in so many things in our life. I can not really speak for the others.
Do any of us really want to be as bitter as JY is! I think not!
I don't wish anything bad on Dennis or Styx. I even pray that JY will get to a 'happy' place someday and find some piece/peace. Peace with everuthing to is sooooo important!
God, love, peace and happiness.

I hope to God that you have the inability to reproduce.