Maybe I just don't get it...?

[classicstyxfan]

OK, help me out here, I just want to see if someone can explain a few things to me. First a few facts.

1. Styx is a Rock and Roll band whose music we have all enjoyed.

2. As far as I know, none of us have a close personal friendship with any members of the band, past or present.

Right ?

While I find this bb interesting and everything, I cant muster the passion
many of you seem to have about the politics of the band...it's fun to argue a point on line, but many of you seem downright angry at times, and seem to take the whole thing very personally, and get upset about posts here.......is it really worth the emotional investment you have ?
speaking of which, why does that stong of an emotional bond with a rock group even exist ?

Would you be a drastically different person if Styx never existed ?

Help me to understand.

Beyond my family and a few close friends, I dont have that level of attachment to anything ! ( with the exception of the Green Bay Packers maybe......)

[Andrew]

Copy and paste into the Journey forum also....and if you get an answer that makes sense, let me know...

[styxfanNH]

Only one person on this board has what I would consider a direct relationship with a band member. And it Ain't me.

[styxfanNH]

Here's my take on this.

There are many things that shape who we are as people. Religion, personal relationships and I would also add those things that we attach to like music, the arts, and hobbies.

I believe in regards to music, you "latch" on to music that speaks to you in your teenage years and addresses the many issues you are facing at the time. For some (and I include myself in this) the lyrics speak to things they felt but were unable to put in words of their own.

Styx was the band that did this for me. As I identified with different songs or parts of songs they became as much a part of me as many other things. In a large way it is a part of who I am.

Although I don't know any of them personally, the larger than life personnas of the members and media attention, gave us to learn about them either individually or as a band, allowing us to have them become part of my extended family (very extended).

Add to that the shenanigans of all members, the various antics of the band, and the drama - it makes a very compelling soap opera.

I would also add that for me, I never latched on to one singer of Styx as the IT guy, instead I liked the various styles of the three lead singers, which has made it easier to move on than others. If you latched on to one singer and assumed the rest were supporting characters, then I could see your point. But to me Styx was the compliment of players not an individual like Prince, Sting or Madonna.

Like I said in my above post, only one person I know of has what I would consider a personal relationship with a member or immediate family mamber and I can understand how that would change your point of view, but for the rest of us, I can't tell you how or why we defend a particular point of view like the member was our little brother.

The passion I post from is more in response to those who fail to acknowledge that I have the right to listen to whatever music I like to listen to, the ability for me to let others know of what I believe to be good music, and the abilty to reminisce about the old times that are every much of who I am, was, and a part of who I came to be.

[swwskj]

StyxNH,

I'm glad you've gotten as much enjoyment over the years as you say. It's certainly a reason why many people post here. However for others this board is merely a vehicle to create headaches for the rest and take glee in an anonymous hit and run. For now that seems to be the rule rather than the exception around here, but it too will pass. Until then we will carry on. Thanks for the post.

Scott

[classicstyxfan]

SFNH,

A well thought out and articulate answer.....and an answer of a higher quality than I was expecting. ( thanks ) I hope others will weigh in on this too.

Perhaps there are those here who look at arguing as sport, or a sort of perverted debate/competition.......and that is where their passion lies vs with the topics at hand ?

[ek88]

SFNH: Well said (again).

Classic: I have never met any members, past or present, of the band. I do not want to meet any of them. I'm willing to support them to the extent of shelling out a few bucks for their music, if it's of a style and/or quality that appeals to me. Because so much of their past music has had such a strong appeal to me, in most cases I'm willing to purchase first and listen to the music later. I'm also willing to spend a reasonable amount to go see them perform live as long as I continue to enjoy the shows. Since I have very few friends that are Styx knowledgeable, I also enjoy reading and posting here regularly to hear the latest news, discuss old or new albums and songs, hear some really cool Styx stories from the various posters, and pick up the occasional tidbit of Styx trivia that only a Styx-nerd like myself would care about.

I also do not mind, within reason, to hear the objective opinions about why or why not a particular album (or lineup, for that matter) is liked or disliked. I can't honestly say that the seemingly endless comparisons and belittling of past and present members does a whole lot for me.

That just about sums up Styxworld according to ek88

[sadie65]

This board has become a place where there is contempt for civil discussion.
In the time that I've been on, I've seen ebb and flow to be sure, but as of late, I've no desire to be here.

I do not hold the men in this band in some vaunted position, but I do think that we here show less and less tolerance towards each other, and virtually no respect for the men in the band. It's become a place where even sincere attempts at discussion become nothing more than the latest in one upmanship.

Some are able to seperate the band from it's politics, and yet they are equally guilty of lashing out. I do get that it is human nature.

Then there is the ones that point out that favortism exists, which it does, in both camps. It is, for me, ridiculous the amount of justification that seems to be required these days in making your statements. We have people saying that only certain people are called on the carpet for their words, then saying that the complaining about what gets posted is predictable, then continuing with the idea that favortism exists because trolls are ignored. And yet, by golly, when they are called on the carpet, that gets ignored.

I used to honestly enjoy coming here. Now I read and shake my head. There are enough people here on both sides whose posts are beyond the pale, and yet, just today only one "side" was given blame for the disintegration of this board. My first thought in reading that particular post was to suggest looking in a mirror.

Scott posted about how exited he was to attend a Styx concert. Several here were happy for him. Where were the ones who complain about all the never ending posts and circle jerking?

I wish all here well, but sincerely for me, I've had it. Like it or not, there will always be decension, and that's healthy. What isn't is the idea that it's okay to slam and ridicule people for holding different opinions.

Perhaps we are all guilty of poor phrasing. Lord knows I am. Could we please try some tolerance and acceptance before we bring out the machetes?

Perhaps, as has been suggested, in time it will settle down. Until then I'm in read mode.

[Monker]

This board has become a place where there is contempt for civil discussion.

I would even take it further then this and say the dominent force in the 'discussion' here is expressing malcontept for whatever is being discussed.

but I do think that we here show less and less tolerance towards each other, and virtually no respect for the men in the band.

Absolutely true...and no respect for the forum itself and what it will become.

It's become a place where even sincere attempts at discussion become nothing more than the latest in one upmanship.

Yep! Or, attempts to show how low a person can go without getting in trouble from Andrew.

Some are able to seperate the band from it's politics, and yet they are equally guilty of lashing out. I do get that it is human nature.

"Lashing out", as you put it, is now the best way to express yourself on this forum. If you can't do that, I doubt your 'point' is going to be heard.

There are enough people here on both sides whose posts are beyond the pale, and yet, just today only one "side" was given blame for the disintegration of this board. My first thought in reading that particular post was to suggest looking in a mirror.

A forum isn't about 'sides'. It is about the entirity of the people who post. Some of the people in the group are more dominent then others. The dominent people in this group desire to express their malcontempt at every given opportunity. The rest, even though they outnumber the dominators by probably three to one, are no longer a strong enough force to sway the discussion back to sanity. So, you have what you have.

Scott posted about how exited he was to attend a Styx concert. Several here were happy for him. Where were the ones who complain about all the never ending posts and circle jerking?

And, one of the first posts was froy knocking it down...The only difference between that thread and others was IML didn't get into it with Froy...and then somebody else joining in, and somebody else...

Could we please try some tolerance and acceptance before we bring out the machetes?

Have you ever seen the ending to "Mars Attacks"? When you have this general "We must be heard!" attitude, the machete is always hidden up a sleeve. Maybe somebody here knows how to yodel in a key that will blow up some heads.

[Andrew]

Well, why doesn't EVERYONE have a little restraint and think twice before posting and perhaps things will smooth out...

[bugsymalone]

When I first signed onto this board, there was more of a sense of fun about everything. And we did get into some humorous banter that never really degenerated into nastiness or name calling. Perhaps a little, but always righted and we moved on.

Yesterday I found myself going somewhere that, upon retrospect, I found distasteful. It was in response to something I found distasteful and out-of-line, and, instead of just ignoring it, I decided to hit back at what I thought was a low-blow and an insult to many of us. Wisely, Andrew locked it.

Like Sadie, I am more inclined to stay in read-only mode and skip what I find is unappealing, at least to me. Something I guess we should all do.

Good threads pop up occasionally and, hopefully, we can keep it on the music and lay off the personal attacks.

I plead guilty to being some of the problem, but get in line. There are a lot of us who are. We range from childish name-callers to sarcastic commentators to pompous pontificators who feel they are the only ones with something wise to say. And some of this is just fine, if it is kept in check. It is when it gets out of hand, as it has done recently, that problems develop.

I appreciate the comments all have made on this thread. Good points all. No question.

Maybe we can go back to being what we were in the past. I certainly hope so, and I, for one, hope to abide by a bit of restraint.

Bugsy

[styxfanNH]

some good posts for a change, but do any of these actually answer the original question?

Let's at least try to stay on topic.

[kansas666]

I don't have an emotional investment in STYX.

I just like baiting pinheads.

[SuiteMadameBlue]

Classic says:

1. Styx is a Rock and Roll band whose music we have all enjoyed.

Yes, Styx is my personal favorite band of all times and I enjoy their music. Agreed that most of us on here enjoy Styx in form or another

2. As far as I know, none of us have a close personal friendship with any members of the band, past or present.

Right ?

LOL

While I find this bb interesting and everything, I cant muster the passion
many of you seem to have about the politics of the band...it's fun to argue a point on line, but many of you seem downright angry at times, and seem to take the whole thing very personally, and get upset about posts here.......is it really worth the emotional investment you have ?
speaking of which, why does that stong of an emotional bond with a rock group even exist ?

I do take quite a few posts personally on this board and I do get angry. Yes, to me, it's really worth the emotional investment that I have with my favorite band.

Would you be a drastically different person if Styx never existed ?

Me??? You bet, I would be a whole different person - I'd probably be really boring - LOL I would have a totally different career and hobbies if Styx never existed.

Help me to understand.

I wish I could help you there, but as you know, I'm terrible at explaining anything - LOL

Beyond my family and a few close friends, I dont have that level of attachment to anything ! ( with the exception of the Green Bay Packers maybe......)

I have huge attachments to my family, friends, anything to do with Styx and Dennis and of course the Green Bay Packers!!! Go Packers Go!!! I'm really happy with my attachments!!

[sadie65]

Okay, to answer the question...

No I really don't any of the band members personally, and my life would be pretty much the same if the band had never existed.

I cherish my family, friends, my health...but in now way could I ever cherish...the Green Bay Packers! ACK!!!!! Never!!!!

[Zan]

Excellent post, Bugsy. Classic, I'm sorry you're not getting it. Maybe if more people got it, there'd be less tension around here.

My "emotional investment" (where DO we get these phrases?) in Styx is multi-faceted, and it involves all the members, past & present (except Ricky, who seems to be a very talented, nice human being, but I've never met) because in many ways, I grew up with them. Styx was around even when no one else was, entertained me when it was too rainy outside to do anything else, comforted me when I was sad, alone, or just deep inside of my own head. I "got to know them" through interviews, letters, articles, and watching performances.

I've been fortunate enough to have the chance to meet all of them except JC and Ricky over the years. Some I have met several times. For the most part, each experience has been delightful and even impressive. Each experience adds more texture to the painting. I LOVE this band. I loved it then, I love it now. I loved Damn Yankees. I loved Styx with GB in Tommy's place. I love Gowan & Todd (how could you not love that drummer?), Loved Jesus Christ Superstar, Ten On Broadway, Seven Deadly Zens, James Young Group, Palookaville....yada yada, And I loved the Dennis show I saw too.

To question my "fandom" is not only ignorant, it's pointless. It is what it is, and it's been developing over the last 23 years. Personalities, history, and preferences aside, I still consider all of them to be an extended family, of sorts.

[bugsymalone]

Oh yeah...Classic's question....

I think this, and all forums that start with the basis of a common interest, in this case Styx, but it could be Desperate Housewives, chess, Star Wars....as many topics as there are people to disucss them, can often lead to, uh, "spirited" discussions.

why does that stong of an emotional bond with a rock group even exist ?

We ARE invested in this band on many levels, but the basic one is how the music touched all of us.

We meet on a board such as this and, despite our differences, become "friends", sometimes just through posting, and sometimes in "real" life. Say what you will, but there is a certain comfort level there.

Beyond my family and a few close friends, I dont have that level of attachment to anything !

I do not believe for a second that Styx takes precedence over ANYthing of a personal nature in our lives.

This board is just a place to talk, visit, express ideas, and present a little diversion, and the common interest in this particular group is what brings everyone together.

(with the exception of the Green Bay Packers maybe......)

Glad you bring that up because I think that the same sort of back and forth and often emotional responses people have could very well take place on a board devoted, to, oh say the Packers. It can happen anywhere. What goes on here just happens to involve a band we feel had a strong influence on one part of our lives -- the love of music.

Bugsy

[evileyes]

Classic, I know I'm late here, but...what a great discussion point! I think there are many layers to the Styx "fandom" from the casual to the passionate and everything in between. Obviously, the common ground is that we all like the product Styx has and, for some but not for others, continues to put out. But I think while this is also where our commonality ends.

While I have met all of the A&M era members, I do not in any way have any type of friendship, close or otherwise, with any member.

While I find this bb interesting and everything, I cant muster the passion many of you seem to have about the politics of the band...it's fun to argue a point on line, but many of you seem downright angry at times, and seem to take the whole thing very personally, and get upset about posts here.......is it really worth the emotional investment you have?

Well, I used to be a lot more passionate about the politics of the band than I am now. It took several years for me to "get over" the break up. Even now, I freely admit, I have little interest in what Styx is doing. Mind you 2 years ago that would've been NO interest. I mean, I even purchased BBT, the first time I've spent any money on Styx since RTP. Really, I realized 1) that I have way too many other things to worry about than who was right & who was wrong in the situation and 2) there really are two sides to every story and maybe, just maybe both sides can share the blame.

On the other hand, I am a very passionate "DeYoungian," something I've known since the release of Desert Moon. However, you will seldom see me involved in any of the, um, bickering that goes on around here. I try very hard to respect the opinions of others & their right to have & express those opinions (no matter how misguided I think they are ).

Now, on to what I think is the heart of your question:

...why does that stong of an emotional bond with a rock group even exist ?

Would you be a drastically different person if Styx never existed ?

I think this level of bonding speaks volumes about the skill of the musician and/or composer to reach into our lives and touch our hearts, our very souls if you will. That is what happened to me. This music touched me so deeply on so many levels during my adolescent & teenage years, expressing my emotions in ways I never could, pointing out how important it was to be true to myself--to ignore what the media or "in-crowd" said was important. This music was my friend, sometimes the only one who understood me. It was there during the fun times sure, but more importantly, it was there during the bad times. It was there when I was so lonely, feeling cut off from everyone and yet feeling like I had to find some way to escape. "Warning Shot" to this day is hard for me to listen to, even though I think that song may have saved my life. There were times I came so close to running away, yet this song was the voice of reason that stopped me. More than once. What if I had run away? Would I even be alive now?

Perhaps it's genetic. Where my mother would always turn to Elvis' music when life got her down, for me it was Styx, more specificly DeYoung's contributions or solo works. Still is for that matter. The hope that I find in this music...well it ranks right up there with the hope I have since found in my faith.

So, would I be a drastically different person if Styx had never existed? Most definitely YES.

[classicstyxfan]

ee, very cool that someones music could have that profound of an effect on the course of your life, and I'm pretty sure there are others her with similar stories. I suppose in "real life" people do take sides in a divorce and can get passionate about defending "their side".

I just think to be/get ( and the worst yet..... stay ) ANGRY over anything written on this bulletin board, ( to me ) seems over the top. But I am for the most part, a classic "Type B" personality, in that it takes a lot to really piss me off.

Sarcasm, on the other hand, is one of my favorite outlets for expression !

[swwskj]

EE,

That was a very well thought out and insightful post and has absolutely no business here.

Seriously, very nice read. Just keep in mind that there so many different types of people with varying opinions that you're probably not doing something right if you don't step on a toe here or there.

It tends to be the deliberate foot stomping that gets tiresome.

Thanks again for the insight.

Scott

[Adam]

Okay, allow me to stick up for those conspicuously missing in this intelligent conversation.

First, it is a credit to Dennis DeYoung that he has inspired such strong feelings in strangers. Maybe it's not just him, since, as I recall, it was the identical mirror image situation when Burtnik replaced Shaw in the early 90s. Maybe it was the passion of believers in the "classic" early days of the band.

Second, the "DeYoungians" are so vehement because of their way of seeing what went down - which is DENNIS's way of seeing. I believe that he explained it from his perspective, and Dennis fans take his word (likewise, Shaw fans do the same the other way). They feel that something terribly unfair went down, and are angered that it can continue.

Lastly, music is emotional...and the artists responsible for the music that touches us most deeply in our formative years - our teenage years - and my theory is we NEVER get over it.

There were screaming Michael Jackson fans outside the Courthouse. When's the last time this guy made a decent record? It matters not. There were a slew of middle-aged woman outside his trial. They love him. WHY? They have absolutely nothing in common with this cosmetic surgery addicted/arrested developed/sexually confused millionaire. But his Thriller album connected with them at the point in their lives when their antennae were intensely receiving. His expression clicked with them and they'll forever consider him practically a God, no matter WHAT he does to his face (or pubescent boys).

Is this license to be rude and offensive to strangers in a public forum, ala IML & Froy? Naaaaaaaahhh.

[sadie65]

Okay, allow me to stick up for those conspicuously missing in this intelligent conversation.

First, it is a credit to Dennis DeYoung that he has inspired such strong feelings in strangers. Maybe it's not just him, since, as I recall, it was the identical mirror image situation when Burtnik replaced Shaw in the early 90s. Maybe it was the passion of believers in the "classic" early days of the band.

Second, the "DeYoungians" are so vehement becausae of their way of seeing what went down - which is DENNIS's way of seeing. I believe that he explained it from his perspective, and Dennis faqns take his word (likewise, Shaw fans do the same the other way). They feel that something terribly unfair went down, and are angered that it can continue.

Lastly, music is emotional...and the artists responsable for the music that touches us most deeply in our formative years - our teenage years - and my theory is we NEVER get over it.

There were screaming Michael Jackson fans outside the Courthouse. When's the last time this guy made a decent record? It matters not. There were a slew of middle-aged woman outside his trial. They love him. WHY? They have absolutely nothing in common with this cosmetic surgery addicted/arrested developed/sexually confused millionaire. But his Thriller album connected with them at the point in their lives when their antennae was intensly receiving. His expression clicked with them and they'll forever consider him practically a God, no matter WHAT he does to his face (or pubescent boys).

Is this license to be rude and offensive to strangers in a public forum, ala IML & Froy.

There you go again...sort of sounding like me. However I would caution you that fans (most fans) have no true way of knowing what the person they are a fan of really feels. So to say that DeYoung's or Shaw's fans feel a certain way because that is how those men feel is not necessarily so. It's "perception". I'd hazard a guess that the real feelings these men have haev many more layers than those of their fans in this matter.

Peace

[Adam]

good point Sadie.

[onestilllearning]

Quote:
Beyond my family and a few close friends, I dont have that level of attachment to anything !



I do not believe for a second that Styx takes precedence over ANYthing of a personal nature in our lives.

This board is just a place to talk, visit, express ideas, and present a little diversion, and the common interest in this particular group is what brings everyone together.

Quote:

(with the exception of the Green Bay Packers maybe......)


Glad you bring that up because I think that the same sort of back and forth and often emotional responses people have could very well take place on a board devoted, to, oh say the Packers. It can happen anywhere. What goes on here just happens to involve a band we feel had a strong influence on one part of our lives -- the love of music.

Bugsy

This was the best answer or I should say the closest to me own opinion. If Styx never existed I can not imagine it would that I would be any different. I am not even sure I meet the criteria of "fan" as I am not fanatical about the band. Having seen them in 1978 and then again with my daughter in 2002, 2003, 2004 and later this summer 2 times yes I enjoy the music but my real fan is my daughter who I am happy to share the yearly pilgramage with. I would have to say the New England Patriots are a bigger factor in my life.

This bb which I do not even remember how I found it is a fun place to meet people and share thoughts - for me the topic could be anything I have just grown to like the people here and it is a pleasant and comfortable place to visit. I honestly grow a little board with Styx as the topic. Sometimes when I come here I wish the people were the same but the topic was changed ei. kids today , politics , the meaning of life , sports...........

[bugsymalone]

Sometimes when I come here I wish the people were the same but the topic was changed ei. kids today , politics , the meaning of life , sports...........

OMG, OSL! We just THINK we argue over Styx! You get something like what you mention above and Katy! Bar the door!!!!

Bugsy

[onestilllearning]

Ya it would open the proverbial Pandoras Box -

Heres an example ....my take on politics - Liberisim is a mental disease that currupts the very fabric of a moral society!