I wanted to post a few words about the DDY show tonight...

[yogi]

This 'Assembly Line' that Zan started is by faaarrrr the best reads that have occured here. The picture of her with John is both soooo cool and yet soooo sad at the same time.

What I would really like to truly know is Glen's take on everything that has transpired since 1999.

Hell for Poth to come back and halfway make sense with a readable post gives this thread more credibility than just about any other threads from the past.

GREAT job Zan!!!!

[Monker]

First, the bathwater comment. Completely overblown by many folks and taken much worse than I believe it was ever intended. It was an analogy that was not the best choice of words, but in fact made a point that there will be die hards on each side. Yes, it was specifically calling out fans of the new Styx, but could be applied to rabid DDY fans as well. It was like Republicans and Democrats today - people dug in and took sides and there was no getting either off the ledge. Was it a poor analogy? Absolutely. Could have said "worshippers" or anything else. But it was also a time of very bad blood between both sides and the fans were stuck in the middle. I'm sorry you felt that it was being critical of you as a fan.

This is just totally inaccurate.

Tommy had been interacting with fans on the internet from the time he joined the Styx mailing list in the early mid-90's. Later he moved this interaction to blog posts chronicling the recording of 7DZ, Lady '95, and BNW. Dennis comment was directed at fans who followed Tommy's blog on the Styx website, and his solo website at the time..for those following Tommy BEFORE THE BREAKUP EVEN TOOK PLACE. This is a direct insult towards *STYX* fans. The ONLY insulting comment from either side directed explicitly at the fans of Styx.

It is not like comments between political parties. It's like the Tea Party making a general insult at all Republicans for those who read John McCain's blog, or whatever.

Your examples of how the band insults DDY fans are really examples of why you feel slighted by the band. They are not directly insulting DDY fans. A comparison would be if JY said something like, "Those silly DDY fans who read his website just love to drink his Kool-Aid." The band expressing their thoughts and feeling about certain albums and songs, and DDY's musical style, may offend you....but it is not a direct insult towards you.

[masque]

here's my story; i have an older brother that was way into styx by the mid-seventies and was following them daily during their heyday in the late 70's.

i was exposed heavily to the things he liked and some of it made a huge impression and styx certainly did. they became my favorite band as it was his.

he was always a huge fan of the big three and I grew up loving all three guys....BUT, my personal preferences were for the more rock oriented songs.....so long before the split or any issues that any of us knew of I liked renegade, miss america and songs like that millions of times better than babe and first time. BUT i didnt hate the softer songs, i just preferred the others.

the split, the feuding, the reunion, the more feuding and all that was hard on me because I loved all of them.....and like Zan I dont pretend to think that what we have been told is close to the whole story....i have no idea what it is like to work with JY or dennis or tommy...i have no idea what kind of tone of voice is used between these guys, tensions over things we have no idea about.....so i honestly never took ANY side in any of that stuff.

BUT I still follow both camps closely and I have more fondness over the Tommy and JY camp because I like more of what they do than what dennis does.

the only song that the current styx leaves out now that I wish they played was "best of times" which I believe is one of styx's best songs. dennis plays about 3-4 songs that EVEN IF HE WERE STILL IN STYX I would be fine if they replaced with other styx songs....EVEN SONGS THAT DENNIS SINGS. I would much prefer to hear castle walls over babe, queen of spades over roboto and pieces of eight over dont let it end.

so that's why i'm "more of a styx guy than a dennis guy".........plus i just flat out like tommy the best.....i prefer his voice, his songs, his stage presence etc..... not slamming dennis at he was/is great but i just like tommy better.......and you know what? that came about honestly because my brother is a hardcore dennis guy.....slams tommy and jy over and over and cant stand them anymore....so he didnt "teach" me to like tommy better it just happened because that's what my ears preferred. I will go see either one of them any chance I get.

[Monker]

Monker, the Styx forums might be trashed, but I'm telling ya, sitting in that show a couple weeks ago, I was 12 again. I felt all that gooey shit that I felt when I used to submerge myself in the music in my bedroom. The legacy is just fine. If we allow ourselves a little bit of time to step away from the negativity of the forums, throw on a pair of headphones, and put on Pieces of Eight, Grand Illusion, or even Kilroy Was Here, we would feel it. It hasn't gone anywhere. The only thing that's changed is life itself.

Man, I wish I could adequately express how I can slip into another world and reminisce over the First Styx I came to love, yet be just as enthusiastic about hearing Todd "change things up" and do his thing, watch Gowan work the crowd, or watch Tommy play some understated, but utterly amazing guitar riff. The there's Glen's Tribute and ELO shows that I get to go and see sometimes. I guess there's just room in there to love all of it. I'm really stoked that all the crap didn't permanently sour that for me.

Well, that's because you can appreciate and embrace the changes that have occurred over the years. It's like people saying such and such band is the soundtrack to their life. Well, unless they stop living is that soundtrack not continually being written? A person/fan can either allow that soundtrack to continue being added to by Styx, or they move on to something else...or they continually complain that the changes are not worthy of their soundtrack and their soundtrack is in limbo.

The bottom line for me is the last Styx concert I went to, I was front row center, had picks handed to me by Ricky, got picks from JY and Tommy, got the set list sheet, got confetti dumped on us by goofy Gowan, shook JY's hand, seats were maybe 10 feet away from Todd's wife, and the whole thing was a blast that I would love to do it all again. That's adding to my life...and I can definitely appreciate it.

[Everett]

Great story masque. Your brother does the exact same thing a friend of mine does. Mostly
to bust my chops but that he's not that thrilled with larry but still won't see them unless
dennis is back in the band. I tell him good luck everytime

[Zan]

First, the bathwater comment. Completely overblown by many folks and taken much worse than I believe it was ever intended. It was an analogy that was not the best choice of words, but in fact made a point that there will be die hards on each side. Yes, it was specifically calling out fans of the new Styx, but could be applied to rabid DDY fans as well. It was like Republicans and Democrats today - people dug in and took sides and there was no getting either off the ledge. Was it a poor analogy? Absolutely. Could have said "worshippers" or anything else. But it was also a time of very bad blood between both sides and the fans were stuck in the middle. I'm sorry you felt that it was being critical of you as a fan.

This is just totally inaccurate.

Tommy had been interacting with fans on the internet from the time he joined the Styx mailing list in the early mid-90's. Later he moved this interaction to blog posts chronicling the recording of 7DZ, Lady '95, and BNW. Dennis comment was directed at fans who followed Tommy's blog on the Styx website, and his solo website at the time..for those following Tommy BEFORE THE BREAKUP EVEN TOOK PLACE. This is a direct insult towards *STYX* fans. The ONLY insulting comment from either side directed explicitly at the fans of Styx.

It is not like comments between political parties. It's like the Tea Party making a general insult at all Republicans for those who read John McCain's blog, or whatever.

Your examples of how the band insults DDY fans are really examples of why you feel slighted by the band. They are not directly insulting DDY fans. A comparison would be if JY said something like, "Those silly DDY fans who read his website just love to drink his Kool-Aid." The band expressing their thoughts and feeling about certain albums and songs, and DDY's musical style, may offend you....but it is not a direct insult towards you.

Toph and Monker - Much like the "accept no substitutes" comment, I'd really prefer it if the focus weren't on the negative things, but he was definitely speaking about Tommy's fans - because the question that was asked pertained to how he felt the split would affect the fans (or something similar), and he said that he felt the fans would be disappointed, accept for the ones in the chatrooms who will basically drink your bathwater if you ask them to. I, and many others, took that to mean that anyone who would be supportive of the new band structure was some sort of mindless, obsessive nutter. (Ohhh, yeah, they [still] are out there, for sure...there were certainly plenty of them in those chatrooms. But to be lumped in with those types of people on the sole basis that I supported the band did irk me on a personal level.)

I am sure it was blown out of proportion - some people went seriously monekyshit over it. That wasn't me. I was more in the (to self), "Ok then. Well, fuck you too, sir." camp. (Followed by) "Gosh, how could anyone think you are hard to get along with?" That in combination with the ENDLESS rants and bashing that went on by the self-proclaimed DeYoungians, I saw no reason to keep my thoughts to myself. Like I said, it wasn't any one isolated incident, it was a plethora of incidents that catapulted me over the fence that I was so vehemently straddling for months. lol

Off track a bit: I remember one post in particular the Lavista made. She said Glen should bow down and kiss Dennis' feet for giving him the opportunity to play with Styx in the first place. That Glen was, and I quote "lucky to have a job." lol

NOW, moving on, since this thread has managed to stay civil and nice, I'd greatly appreciate it if you guys are gonna have a war of words, as the two of you often do, that you please start another thread. Nobody is changing anyone's minds here, so if we could stay positive, that would be great. Thanks.

Oh, Toph, the September 3rd show was at the Hollywood Sportatorium in S. Florida. I checked on styxtoury.com and there is no record of a show in Orlando for that tour. is it possible you were at St. Petersburg or Ft. Myers?

Sep 01, 1983 St. Petersburg, FL Bayfront Center

Kilroy Was Here


Sep 02, 1983 Ft. Myers, FL Lee Civic Center

Kilroy Was Here


Sep 03, 1983 Hollywood, FL Hollywood Sportatorium

Kilroy Was Here


Not that it's of dire importance or anything. Just thought you might want to get the exact date for your own edification.

[Zan]

P.S. I sincerely do appreciate your reply, Toph. Since you were one of the ones who believed me to be a "hater," it is nice to see you chime in this way.

P.S.S. Thanks for sharing your story too, masque.

[Toph]

First, the bathwater comment. Completely overblown by many folks and taken much worse than I believe it was ever intended. It was an analogy that was not the best choice of words, but in fact made a point that there will be die hards on each side. Yes, it was specifically calling out fans of the new Styx, but could be applied to rabid DDY fans as well. It was like Republicans and Democrats today - people dug in and took sides and there was no getting either off the ledge. Was it a poor analogy? Absolutely. Could have said "worshippers" or anything else. But it was also a time of very bad blood between both sides and the fans were stuck in the middle. I'm sorry you felt that it was being critical of you as a fan.

This is just totally inaccurate.

Tommy had been interacting with fans on the internet from the time he joined the Styx mailing list in the early mid-90's. Later he moved this interaction to blog posts chronicling the recording of 7DZ, Lady '95, and BNW. Dennis comment was directed at fans who followed Tommy's blog on the Styx website, and his solo website at the time..for those following Tommy BEFORE THE BREAKUP EVEN TOOK PLACE. This is a direct insult towards *STYX* fans. The ONLY insulting comment from either side directed explicitly at the fans of Styx.

It is not like comments between political parties. It's like the Tea Party making a general insult at all Republicans for those who read John McCain's blog, or whatever.

Your examples of how the band insults DDY fans are really examples of why you feel slighted by the band. They are not directly insulting DDY fans. A comparison would be if JY said something like, "Those silly DDY fans who read his website just love to drink his Kool-Aid." The band expressing their thoughts and feeling about certain albums and songs, and DDY's musical style, may offend you....but it is not a direct insult towards you.

Toph and Monker - Much like the "accept no substitutes" comment, I'd really prefer it if the focus weren't on the negative things, but he was definitely speaking about Tommy's fans - because the question that was asked pertained to how he felt the split would affect the fans (or something similar), and he said that he felt the fans would be disappointed, accept for the ones in the chatrooms who will basically drink your bathwater if you ask them to. I, and many others, took that to mean that anyone who would be supportive of the new band structure was some sort of mindless, obsessive nutter. (Ohhh, yeah, they [still] are out there, for sure...there were certainly plenty of them in those chatrooms. But to be lumped in with those types of people on the sole basis that I supported the band did irk me on a personal level.)

I am sure it was blown out of proportion - some people went seriously monekyshit over it. That wasn't me. I was more in the (to self), "Ok then. Well, fuck you too, sir." camp. (Followed by) "Gosh, how could anyone think you are hard to get along with?" That in combination with the ENDLESS rants and bashing that went on by the self-proclaimed DeYoungians, I saw no reason to keep my thoughts to myself. Like I said, it wasn't any one isolated incident, it was a plethora of incidents that catapulted me over the fence that I was so vehemently straddling for months. lol

Off track a bit: I remember one post in particular the Lavista made. She said Glen should bow down and kiss Dennis' feet for giving him the opportunity to play with Styx in the first place. That Glen was, and I quote "lucky to have a job." lol

NOW, moving on, since this thread has managed to stay civil and nice, I'd greatly appreciate it if you guys are gonna have a war of words, as the two of you often do, that you please start another thread. Nobody is changing anyone's minds here, so if we could stay positive, that would be great. Thanks.

Oh, Toph, the September 3rd show was at the Hollywood Sportatorium in S. Florida. I checked on styxtoury.com and there is no record of a show in Orlando for that tour. is it possible you were at St. Petersburg or Ft. Myers?

Sep 01, 1983 St. Petersburg, FL Bayfront Center

Kilroy Was Here


Sep 02, 1983 Ft. Myers, FL Lee Civic Center

Kilroy Was Here


Sep 03, 1983 Hollywood, FL Hollywood Sportatorium

Kilroy Was Here


Not that it's of dire importance or anything. Just thought you might want to get the exact date for your own edification.

Labor Day Orlando Florida 1983. I went.

[Zan]

Sept. 5th.

[Keiferb]

This has been a great thread, and I've thoroughly enjoyed reading everyone's perspectives (even those I may not agree with)....thought provoking.

Zan - thanks for your story. On retrospect, I'm not sure I meant to say that you were a "Voice of Reason". Rather, I think your points are very reasonably thought out and stated, and with that, you're hard to argue with! I'm still shocked at your love of Roboto. It's so Un-Glen.

You're step back into time made me go back and do the same. I then remembered posting something of a similar vein over a year ago. I've re-copied it here rather than try to re-create it. As context, I think the topic at the time was the 30th Anniversary of Paradise Theater. What's most interesting, is that I'm finally following through on my last comment, in spite of my "Gowan" misgivings! Admittedly, this re-counting is not as sexy as yours.....

30 years. Remarkable. I'm not sure PT is the best (I too favor Equinox, GI, and PO8), but it's definitely one of my favorites, if for nothing else, sentimental reasons. I've seen this album get panned out here pretty often, and I've not understood why. I like it all - beginning to end (even She Cares, which gets extra criticism, I believe, for being during TS's drug period). Nonetheless, I feel it's a great effort soup to nuts. Some of my favorites on the album were Nothing Ever Goes as Planned, Lonely People, and Half Penny Two Penny (yes, a JY tune - surprised?). In my opinion, very few current bands make music this good. I know, our parents said the same thing about Elvis when we were growing up.

I didn't pick up on Styx until about 1983 (I was 15), when KWH was big. PT was the first cassette tape I owned. I grew up in a Christian home, where rock music was "forbidden". My friends all had stereos, and I remember hearing The Best of Times on the radio, and was drawn to the harmonies. It was during this same period that my friends brother owned Supertramp's Breakfast in America, which is why they too are one of my favorites to this day. Yet I digress.

I saved my money from a part-time job, and secretly bought a "SOUNDDESIGN" (remember them??) AM/FM Cassette player with headphones. It was hard to hide, but I managed. I bought Paradise Theater, and listened to that thing for the first time, in it's entirety, with a pair of headphones strapped to my head. I remember exactly the room I was in, the color of the wall, curtains, the silver cassette player, the blue headphone pads, etc. I was blown away, and the rest is history. I owned pretty much the entire catalog, on cassette (including KWH, which was peaking when I made this "discovery"). I also remember coming home from my after school job one night later, with my parents waiting w/all of my Styx tapes in hand, wondering what in the hell had happened to their son. Thank God there was not internet at that time, so I don't think they knew Styx was a river in hell!

Anyway, I've always considered myself late to the game - I feel like I've picked up on bands after the majority of everyone else jumped ship. Heck, I didn't become a Floyd fan until about 10 years ago, and they are now, far and away, my favorite.

So, count me among the silly, melancholy, "I wish things were like they one were" crazies. Whether right or wrong, that's probably one of the reasons I've never warmed up to the Gowan years. That, and he just sounds bad on DDY's material. To this day, I still listen to all the pre-BNW CD's and continue to wonder how in the hell this fractured relationship has tarried so many years, given how good they were together (not looking to start yet another thread on this topic!). I'm 43 now, and one thing that is kind of cool to me is that my boys (12 & 11) both like the music I discovered "late" relative to when they were popular. Mr. Roboto (although one of my least favorites) is a regular on Band Hero. They have asked to go see them next time they are around. I'll probably take them if they come by.

[Zan]

Oh, here is the official photo from the aftershow. The one I posted was from my camera, but this was the one their guy was taking: