ABOUT TO POST

[Ash]

I got your point, and you don't have the right to speak down to me - so I'd advise you not to do so.

OK, I like you and everything Ash, but...OMG, you have to be joking.

So, you GOT his point, but chose not to address it for the sake or having a logically void argument? Well, that makes more sense.

Ash, newsflash - this is an internet message board. Talking down to others is what happens allll the time (you know, like in many of your own posts). Welcome to the kitchen, Mr. Kettle.

It's not that I didn't address his point - it's that I don't find his point valid.

JY holds Dennis accountable for everything venues do to promote his shows.... so why should we allow him to abdicate accountibility of what is done to promote theirs? Is not what is true for one true for the other? So if DFB can no more control what songs the venue lists they will be performing is it safe to say that Dennis can't control when some venue promotes him as "Dennis DeYoung - Lead Singer of Styx"? Or is it only possible that JY is totally innocent and not Dennis.

Thats my point - which I guess neither of you got. You said "it's not his fault" to which I say "that may be true, but JY doesn't hold that same feeling when the shoe is placed on Dennis' foot". Of course, I felt this was obvious - but perhaps you needed it spelled out more. Thats ok - I get that a lot. :-\

[Ash]

To me the one thing that is 100% clear and it has taken me years to realize is that JY and Tommy want it both ways. Half of their actions contradict what they say.

Welcome to show business.

And I guess that makes it right? Or is it only right when your camp does it but not the other?

[bugsymalone]

t's not that I didn't address his point - it's that I don't find his point valid.

JY holds Dennis accountable for everything venues do to promote his shows.... so why should we allow him to abdicate accountibility of what is done to promote theirs? Is not what is true for one true for the other? So if DFB can no more control what songs the venue lists they will be performing is it safe to say that Dennis can't control when some venue promotes him as "Dennis DeYoung - Lead Singer of Styx"? Or is it only possible that JY is totally innocent and not Dennis.

Thats my point - which I guess neither of you got. You said "it's not his fault" to which I say "that may be true, but JY doesn't hold that same feeling when the shoe is placed on Dennis' foot". Of course, I felt this was obvious - but perhaps you needed it spelled out more. Thats ok - I get that a lot. :-\

Agree with you on this, Ash, but how we feel about it, and the basic unfairness of it, will not change a thing with Current Styx. They hold all the cards on this one.

And I guess that makes it right? Or is it only right when your camp does it but not the other?

Bingo!

Bugsy

[Zan]

And I guess that makes it right? Or is it only right when your camp does it but not the other?

Bingo!

Bugsy

No, not BINGO. You'll find that the only ones still complaining are the ones who are pro-Dennis in this mess. The rest of us don't care either way. We don't care that JY keeps shooting off his mouth (not that we agree with it), we don't care that Tommy's starting to age a little, we don't care who looks younger, or better, or who sings ballads vs. rock, who took drugs, who was faithful, who's an asshole, who's a saint, none of it. It has nothing to do with camps anymore for some of us. I'm sorry that some of you still live in that world, really, I am. We all have our preferences. Don't confuse that with giving a shit about specifics having to do with an organization we were never part of. Show business is show business. You can whine about it to death if it makes you feel better. Won't change a thing.

[Ash]

Agree with you on this, Ash, but how we feel about it, and the basic unfairness of it, will not change a thing with Current Styx. They hold all the cards on this one.

Honestly - as far as I am concerned, Dennis has outgrown the "Styx" name and he may, in fact, actually be bigger than DFB. So perhaps the satire like what VH1 has done with their latest press release will begin to bite DFB at some point not too far down the road.

I'm very much looking forward to Dennis' new record. I really, really, really wish I could say more of what I know because I'm dying to get it out. But I'll just wait for the spring like a good little bathwater drinker.

[Ash]

No, not BINGO. You'll find that the only ones still complaining are the ones who are pro-Dennis in this mess. The rest of us don't care either way. We don't care that JY keeps shooting off his mouth (not that we agree with it), we don't care that Tommy's starting to age a little, we don't care who looks younger, or better, or who sings ballads vs. rock, who took drugs, who was faithful, who's an asshole, who's a saint, none of it. It has nothing to do with camps anymore for some of us. I'm sorry that some of you still live in that world, really, I am. We all have our preferences. Don't confuse that with giving a shit about specifics having to do with an organization we were never part of. Show business is show business. You can whine about it to death if it makes you feel better. Won't change a thing.

Honestly tho, if you re-read what I said it had nothing to do with camps. I pointed out the injustice of JY allowing his band to be misrepresented by having songs they don't play used to promote their concerts while at the same time threatening to sue or actually suing Dennis everytime some club makes the mistake of using Styx in a way which causes the hairs on his ass to point the wrong way.

You were the one who said "Welcome to show business" which implied that you think it's OK or that it's too bad. Well then it's too damn bad when the she is on the other foot.

And BTW - we're not the only ones complaining. JY can't FUCKING STOP complaining about shit. Thats why he has his lawyers going after FAN WEB SITES FOR CHRIST'S SAKE. When will this retard learn?! All he does in every interview is god-damn complain about the band's history. And we're JUST as sick of THAT as you are about us. Trust me.

Still - I love ya Zan... but please don't act like we're the only ones out here causing a stink. JY's been the catalyst of that for SEVEN YEARS.

[Zan]

JY holds Dennis accountable for everything venues do to promote his shows.... so why should we allow him to abdicate accountibility of what is done to promote theirs? Is not what is true for one true for the other?

The answer is no. JY won the lawsuit, the rules are not the same for him as they are for Denny. believe me, if Dennis had a real case against JY, I'm sure he wouldn't hesitate to act on it. As far as what *we* should allow, lol, well, I think it's fairly safe to say that the only say *we* have is to choose whether or not to buy tickets. There's not a whole lot else you can do about it, least of all - HERE.

Incidentally, I got your point before. As did I the last several dozen times you made it (I get it, really, I do). Too bad it wasn't really relevant to what Eric was trying to say. You're both very lovely people, however.

[Zan]

You were the one who said "Welcome to show business" which implied that you think it's OK or that it's too bad. Well then it's too damn bad when the she is on the other foot.

Wrong again. It was said the context of: That's just the way it is. period. Nothing more, nothing less. My approval or disapproval makes no difference in this.

And BTW - we're not the only ones complaining. JY can't FUCKING STOP complaining about shit. Thats why he has his lawyers going after FAN WEB SITES FOR CHRIST'S SAKE. When will this retard learn?! All he does in every interview is god-damn complain about the band's history. And we're JUST as sick of THAT as you are about us. Trust me.

Still - I love ya Zan... but please don't act like we're the only ones out here causing a stink. JY's been the catalyst of that for SEVEN YEARS.

Let me me try and help you see the gaping difference here - JY is INVOLVED in this. He is a key player and a member of this band. He has every right or reason to keep complaining (as tiresome as it may get for us fans to hear) if he wants.

Perhaps I should have been very specific. I *meant* the only FANS still complaining are the Denny fans. Savvy?

Good.

[SuiteMadameBlue]

The answer is no. JY won the lawsuit, the rules are not the same for him as they are for Denny. believe me, if Dennis had a real case against JY, I'm sure he wouldn't hesitate to act on it. .

Actually Dennis did have a real case against JY and Styx and IN MY OPINION was planning to go full force. I bet any amount of money that he would've won, IMO. Due to personal circumstances that happened after he filed the lawsuit, he chose to settle out of court instead of going to trial and dragging it out.

[Blue Falcon]

And BTW - we're not the only ones complaining. JY can't FUCKING STOP complaining about shit. Thats why he has his lawyers going after FAN WEB SITES FOR CHRIST'S SAKE. When will this retard learn?! All he does in every interview is god-damn complain about the band's history. And we're JUST as sick of THAT as you are about us. Trust me.

JY is a bitter man seething with hatred...not healthy for a man his age. My guess is he seethed all through the successful years with DDY too, when his few songs failed to make much impression while DDY's scaled the charts.

If DDY's ballads made JY so ill, why didn't JY quit back in 1980 or so, and start the James Young Experience?

Seriously, you have to wonder about JY when a man who is almost 60 is still getting pi$$y about things that happened 30 years ago! (And yes, I do think JY and TS are hypocrites for using DDY music in adverts...welcome to the hypocritcal human race!)

[Ash]

The answer is no. JY won the lawsuit, the rules are not the same for him as they are for Denny. believe me, if Dennis had a real case against JY, I'm sure he wouldn't hesitate to act on it. .

Then why does JY act like the loser constantly when he talks to people - constantly justifying what happened and trying to defend it by making more and more stupid and outrageous statements. Doesn't sound like a very secure person in his "victory".

[bugsymalone]

Bingo! Bingo! Bingo!

I dunno.....I just felt like saying that.

Bugsy

[Zan]

The answer is no. JY won the lawsuit, the rules are not the same for him as they are for Denny. believe me, if Dennis had a real case against JY, I'm sure he wouldn't hesitate to act on it. .

Then why does JY act like the loser constantly when he talks to people - constantly justifying what happened and trying to defend it by making more and more stupid and outrageous statements. Doesn't sound like a very secure person in his "victory".

I don't know. Probably for the same reasons you choose to bring it up at every opportnity. Some people just get "stuck." *shrug*

[Zan]

The answer is no. JY won the lawsuit, the rules are not the same for him as they are for Denny. believe me, if Dennis had a real case against JY, I'm sure he wouldn't hesitate to act on it. .

Actually Dennis did have a real case against JY and Styx and IN MY OPINION was planning to go full force. I bet any amount of money that he would've won, IMO. Due to personal circumstances that happened after he filed the lawsuit, he chose to settle out of court instead of going to trial and dragging it out.

try to catch up, Suite.

I was referring to now, with the whole "using DDY songs to promote concerts" thing. :-p

[sadie65]

And I guess that makes it right? Or is it only right when your camp does it but not the other?

Bingo!

Bugsy

No, not BINGO. You'll find that the only ones still complaining are the ones who are pro-Dennis in this mess. The rest of us don't care either way. We don't care that JY keeps shooting off his mouth (not that we agree with it), we don't care that Tommy's starting to age a little, we don't care who looks younger, or better, or who sings ballads vs. rock, who took drugs, who was faithful, who's an asshole, who's a saint, none of it. It has nothing to do with camps anymore for some of us. I'm sorry that some of you still live in that world, really, I am. We all have our preferences. Don't confuse that with giving a shit about specifics having to do with an organization we were never part of. Show business is show business. You can whine about it to death if it makes you feel better. Won't change a thing.

Zan,

I am sorry, but I find this post insulting and somewhat inaccurate. The "pro-current lineup" does plenty of complaining over things they find Dennis doing that miffs them.You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but please don't mistake that for "fact"...at least not in this case.

Peace

[Zan]

Zan,

I am sorry, but I find this post insulting and somewhat inaccurate. The "pro-current lineup" does plenty of complaining over things they find Dennis doing that miffs them.You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but please don't mistake that for "fact"...at least not in this case.

Peace

A) Please see what my post was in response to.

B) You have no reason to be insulted, as you are a very big exception to this rule because you really try to keep your feelings in check, unlike MANY (not ALL) of the posters here, who can't seem to go a single day without complaining about something.

C) I found Bugsy's and Ash's comments insulting as well as extremely innaccurate, since my words were misconstrued and then used to promote the same tired "you only have a problem with it when it favors your side" argument. It's lame already.

D) Forgive my saying so, but while it may not be 100% "fact," it is certainly a one mentality over another around here. Just go back and read some of the posts made on this board in the last month or four and count how many digs or complaints are made (and initiated) by each "side," and tell me I'm imagining things.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you.

[Ash]

C) I found Bugsy's and Ash's comments insulting as well as extremely innaccurate, since my words were misconstrued and then used to promote the same tired "you only have a problem with it when it favors your side" argument. It's lame already.

Look... it's just a point of view. I am not trying to insult anyone - honestly. But all I am doing is roughly the same thing others of opposing views are doing. I guess you never stop to think that what you say may be seen as insulting to some. I've not complained about being insulted in a while - because frankly, I'm over it. How you could get insulted over someone's opinion is a bit perplexing to me. I used to get insulted, but then I figured out that it had more to do about me than anyone else.


Anyway - live and let live. What each camp is doing stands on it's own and each's success and/or failure as the case may be is a testament to the actions they take. How anyone chooses to spin these events is up to their own interpretation and is usually tainted by their own perceived bias.


But don't waste your energy getting insulted by anything I've said - because I'm not about insulting people personally. I apologize if that is the way it was construed.


Perhaps we should just at this point agree to disagree and move on to something more constructive.

[Zan]

C) I found Bugsy's and Ash's comments insulting as well as extremely innaccurate, since my words were misconstrued and then used to promote the same tired "you only have a problem with it when it favors your side" argument. It's lame already.

Look... it's just a point of view. I am not trying to insult anyone - honestly. But all I am doing is roughly the same thing others of opposing views are doing. I guess you never stop to think that what you say may be seen as insulting to some. I've not complained about being insulted in a while - because frankly, I'm over it. How you could get insulted over someone's opinion is a bit perplexing to me. I used to get insulted, but then I figured out that it had more to do about me than anyone else.


Anyway - live and let live. What each camp is doing stands on it's own and each's success and/or failure as the case may be is a testament to the actions they take. How anyone chooses to spin these events is up to their own interpretation and is usually tainted by their own perceived bias.


But don't waste your energy getting insulted by anything I've said - because I'm not about insulting people personally. I apologize if that is the way it was construed.


Perhaps we should just at this point agree to disagree and move on to something more constructive.

Fair enough, and you're right - I think "insulting" was actualy the wrong word. I should have said "irritating," which would have been much more accurate.

Thank you for saying this too. It does help to hear it. I'm glad we agree on this subject more than it might have seemed.

[bugsymalone]

What each camp is doing stands on it's own and each's success and/or failure as the case may be is a testament to the actions they take. How anyone chooses to spin these events is up to their own interpretation and is usually tainted by their own perceived bias.

At the risk of "insulting" someone again. ( Or is it simply just "irritating" now? ) I say "bingo" to this one, too, Ash.

EVERYONE on this board has had his or her say in one way or another over the several years I have been a member. Nothing much has changed. It is simply a forum for opinion, for the most part, anyway. Everyone suffers a few "slings and arrows" here and seems no worse the wear for it, least of all Dennis and/or his former band.

Bugsy

[sadie65]

Zan,

I am sorry, but I find this post insulting and somewhat inaccurate. The "pro-current lineup" does plenty of complaining over things they find Dennis doing that miffs them.You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but please don't mistake that for "fact"...at least not in this case.

Peace

A) Please see what my post was in response to.

B) You have no reason to be insulted, as you are a very big exception to this rule because you really try to keep your feelings in check, unlike MANY (not ALL) of the posters here, who can't seem to go a single day without complaining about something.

C) I found Bugsy's and Ash's comments insulting as well as extremely innaccurate, since my words were misconstrued and then used to promote the same tired "you only have a problem with it when it favors your side" argument. It's lame already.

D) Forgive my saying so, but while it may not be 100% "fact," it is certainly a one mentality over another around here. Just go back and read some of the posts made on this board in the last month or four and count how many digs or complaints are made (and initiated) by each "side," and tell me I'm imagining things.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you.

I am not surprised that we disagree. I have long espoused the idea that people gravitate to what or how they themselves would view or handle things. Therefore, what some find insulting or irritating, others do not. Nature of the beast.

It is most certainly not a one mentality around here. Having been here for several years now, I can assure you of that. It is more than likely that because we each (ALL OF US) have our own point of view on things that we misread, misinterpret, or just plain disagree. In other words, we often see or read what we want to read. People as a norm tend to "cast" others in roles and have a hard time changing those roles once cast. I see this place as no different.

Oh and...you're imagining things

[Zan]

Having been here for several years now, I can assure you of that. It is more than likely that because we each (ALL OF US) have our own point of view on things that we misread, misinterpret, or just plain disagree. In other words, we often see or read what we want to read. People as a norm tend to "cast" others in roles and have a hard time changing those roles once cast. I see this place as no different.

Oh and...you're imagining things

Yeah, ok. Maybe several years ago, or even as recently as a year ago, things were more heated on both sides. But lately, there is really only one side still "fighting the good fight." Blame it on JY if it helps, but by doing so, you're no better than he is.

Not "you" as in Sadie, "you" as in anyone by whom it applies.

[RockInDetroit]

They don't play Come Sail Away anymore? I can swear I saw them a few years back and Gowan sang it.

[Ash]

Yeah, ok. Maybe several years ago, or even as recently as a year ago, things were more heated on both sides. But lately, there is really only one side still "fighting the good fight." Blame it on JY if it helps, but by doing so, you're no better than he is.

Not "you" as in Sadie, "you" as in anyone by whom it applies.

Guilty as charged. And I started when JY said he wanted to re-write Styx history. There are those of us who would like to ensure that it isn't forgotten. Of course, by doing so we're somehow assuming JY has the power to change anything - but I digress.

I really don't care about being better or no better than JY. Perhaps he'll learn someday that there will always be people to keep the things he says in check to some degree. I will say that if JY wouldn't provide so much ammunition, then it wouldn't be as necessary to keep pointing out the inconsistencies and outright untruths about some of the things he has said - even if he does believe them himself.

[Zan]

Guilty as charged. And I started when JY said he wanted to re-write Styx history. There are those of us who would like to ensure that it isn't forgotten. Of course, by doing so we're somehow assuming JY has the power to change anything - but I digress.

I really don't care about being better or no better than JY. Perhaps he'll learn someday that there will always be people to keep the things he says in check to some degree. I will say that if JY wouldn't provide so much ammunition, then it wouldn't be as necessary to keep pointing out the inconsistencies and outright untruths about some of the things he has said - even if he does believe them himself.

You hit it right the first time - he really doesn't have the power to erase Styx history. I think it's only the history in his mind that he wishes to erase anyway, I doubt he's that oblivious that he believes he could do anything else. Likewise, early in the Styx Wars, DDY was doing and saying some questionable things that I found to be wrong and untrue, which was why I felt compelled to "side" with the band at that time. He's since dropped his MO, and I've gained some respect for him. Ironically, it is the other camp who began riding the wave of negativity shortly thereafter, which doesn't sit right with me either. But by THAT time, so much had been said and done by both parties and groups of people, and I'd listened to it for so long, that I stopped really caring. I've larned that in this business, NO ONE is guiltless, NO ONE is 100% truthful, and no one seems to have the capability to see their own gaping flaws. Nothing I say or do will change that. Now, I just do what makes me happy, which is go see the shows every once in awhile, and nothing more. I went to CYO show because it was unique from the usual shows Styx has been playing, and it would be part of history (current, of course). But for the most part, i I travel to a show, it's a Glen Burtnik show of some sort. I will see Styx if they play locally, same goes for DDY, even though I can't stand sitting through two hours of Suzanne, but I digress too.

Look, all I'm trying to say is I just think these boards are more enjoyable when there is less negativity and mud-slinging, regardless of who "starts" it in the Styx camps. That's their problem and issue to work through, it shouldn't be ours too. It's time to embrace what we still like about the band and leave the rest where it belongs: in the dirt.

[Blue Falcon]

Despite all my digs at JY and DDY, the fact remains that these guys were stronger TOGETHER. It's truly a shame that all these words have caused so much of a rift that there's little chance they will play together again.

A reunited Styx with DDY would certainly be a bigger concert draw than the current one, or DDY on his own.

[Ash]

yeah and I'm sure Dennis still believes those things but in retrospect a lot of that was said "in the heat of the moment". I think he's done a good job of channeling it into something positive - while JY continues to let it eat away at him.

In war the biggest loser is always the civilians.

[Zan]

In war the biggest loser is always the civilians.

If only our worst problem was being distraught about Styx...