Future possibilities for STYX...

[kmd2009]

for the record- tommy bulldozed the SHOP last year. no idea when he'll have a new studio up and running. but i'm pretty sure todd's would have a good drum room. LOL

I hope never. He should be a recluse forever and never do anything again. He needs to go away and die and on rocking chair and watch his years go by.

[sadie65]

for the record- tommy bulldozed the SHOP last year. no idea when he'll have a new studio up and running. but i'm pretty sure todd's would have a good drum room. LOL

I hope never. He should be a recluse forever and never do anything again. He needs to go away and die and on rocking chair and watch his years go by.

I'm really hoping this is a poor attempt at sarcasm.

[kmd2009]

I tried and I failed. lol

[shaka]

So I disagree with you Shaka - recording is more than a few day affair. Mixing takes quite a few days, and you want to live with mixes before you even consider mastering. Never mix everything all in one shot. It can take a few months to really only do 3 or 4 songs when all is said and done.

I'm actually going back in the studio in March to record with the covers project I'm playing with and am most likely recording another jazz album this year which will set me back big time in terms of cost since it's going to be a big band project.

The other thing about a studio is you have folks who can hopefully give you an objective ear on what's going on. I trust the guy I work with - he won't bullshit me.

You can disagree that's fine. However, I do have knowledge about that which I speak. I respect your opinion as a fellow musician.

It all depend on how prepared you are before you go into the studio. If you know exactly what's going to be put to tape going in and you have decent players you can cut a record in in as little as one to three days. I've been involved in these projects so I know it can happen.

I agree with you. Most of the time (not all the time) drums require a decent room and an engineer that is worth his salt. There are only about two recording engineers in my area who I will trust to record drums on my projects. With that said there are other avenues for drums. There are drum specific studios that will allow you to submit scratch tracks and they will record the drums for you for just over $100 per song. They even allow you to listen to their work and change things if need be. This can also be done if you have orchestral parts. You work out the string arrangements and then have them cut in eastern europe. My friend did this using a very good orchestra in Prague for far less than the cost if he'd have hired session people here. The bonus was he never had to leave his house!

Here's how I like to work:

1. preproduction to work on arrangements.

2. Rent Studio for for half a day to cut up to four songs live. The important thing with this session is to get the drums down. If nothing else can be kept but the drums are good that's ok. The drummers I use usually can pull off a song in one to three takes. If I'm able to get the drums down before my booked time is over I'll use the rest of the time to track bass.

3. Everything else can be done in my condo. Yes, even guitars when I crank my Matchless Lightning. If I have to I'll cruise over to my parents house with an interface and my laptop and crank a plexi or Twin. Usually I'm pretty happy with the tracks I can cut with my Champ, Lightning, Reverberocket, and 18 watt Marshall clone. The great thing about finishing tracking at home is it gives me time to be creative with my guitar arrangements and try new tones. It's also great for vocals as I can experiment with melody and harmonies without shelling out dough to a studio. My favorite thing is I can do all of this for FREE!

4. Repeat process until you have enough tracks to put out some product.


The art of mixing has changed. If your recording engineer is also going to be your mixing engineer there is no reason that it should take long to mix a song. He should already know where he's going. It also depends on how much outboard gear they are using. If the album is mixed entirely in the box (using only the computer and the plugins for effects) then the song will already be premixed by the time you get to the mixing stage.

It's a brave new world when it comes to the art of producing music. If you can embrace the newer ways of doing things you will save a ton of money. Of course with your big band project you're screwed. There's virtually no way you could do that at home. However it's no a rock record so comparing it is like comparing apples to oranges.

[StyxCollector]

It all depend on how prepared you are before you go into the studio. If you know exactly what's going to be put to tape going in and you have decent players you can cut a record in in as little as one to three days. I've been involved in these projects so I know it can happen.

I'm always prepared to go into the studio, and the basics never take more than a day or two when cutting about 4 tracks.

I just know from experience that projects should not be rushed. In a rock project, the beginning is always about drums and bass. After that, everyone can lay vocals or overdub keys and guitars 'til the cows come home. For jazz projects, things are cut live for the most part. Every now and then I'll overdub a new bass part or we'll save solos for later, but jazz more than rock has to be done as close to live as possible to retain feel.

But I don't think most people have a fucking clue when they do it at home (not saying you, but from what I've heard, it's a valid generalization). The other X factor is that studios generally have much better mics, isolation, etc.

There are drum specific studios that will allow you to submit scratch tracks and they will record the drums for you for just over $100 per song. They even allow you to listen to their work and change things if need be. This can also be done if you have orchestral parts.

I see the ads all the time in Sound on Sound. As a bass player, I'd never, ever hire a rent-a-drummer that way. I only cut it with people I would or do play with. I can't imagine a more horrible experience on my own projects.

You work out the string arrangements and then have them cut in eastern europe. My friend did this using a very good orchestra in Prague for far less than the cost if he'd have hired session people here. The bonus was he never had to leave his house!

And this is why so much music is shit - there's no interaction. You can hear it on Brave New World as an example. It's not organic. I'm sorry, if it works for you and your friend, more power to you.

Another thing about the studio is that it's usually a great environment to work in. I feel so much better in a studio - I'd be a studio rat if I knew it paid well lol The reality is that the studio is a great and creative place - much moreso than a home studio in my eyes. At home I'll do all my arrangements in Sibelius (yes, I do real scores and such) or transcribe things, but a studio is just magical.

The art of mixing has changed. If your recording engineer is also going to be your mixing engineer there is no reason that it should take long to mix a song. He should already know where he's going. It also depends on how much outboard gear they are using. If the album is mixed entirely in the box (using only the computer and the plugins for effects) then the song will already be premixed by the time you get to the mixing stage.

Well, duh. With automation you can do some premixing, but on my projects I never do any real EQ or balancing during tracking. ONce you start EQing and you get the drum mix down, everything usually changes.

It's a brave new world when it comes to the art of producing music. If you can embrace the newer ways of doing things you will save a ton of money. Of course with your big band project you're screwed. There's virtually no way you could do that at home. However it's no a rock record so comparing it is like comparing apples to oranges.

And while I could record at home, I never would. I have good gear, but I use it for demo stuff. The studio is just better for doing the real deal.

[Rowdy]

for the record- tommy bulldozed the SHOP last year. no idea when he'll have a new studio up and running. but i'm pretty sure todd's would have a good drum room. LOL

K, I wasn't sure about the SHOP, but I thought I'd remembered it being dismantled or at least no longer in use. Thanks for the clarification.

Rowdy

[shaka]

It all depend on how prepared you are before you go into the studio. If you know exactly what's going to be put to tape going in and you have decent players you can cut a record in in as little as one to three days. I've been involved in these projects so I know it can happen.

I'm always prepared to go into the studio, and the basics never take more than a day or two when cutting about 4 tracks.

I just know from experience that projects should not be rushed. In a rock project, the beginning is always about drums and bass. After that, everyone can lay vocals or overdub keys and guitars 'til the cows come home. For jazz projects, things are cut live for the most part. Every now and then I'll overdub a new bass part or we'll save solos for later, but jazz more than rock has to be done as close to live as possible to retain feel.

But I don't think most people have a fucking clue when they do it at home (not saying you, but from what I've heard, it's a valid generalization). The other X factor is that studios generally have much better mics, isolation, etc.

There are drum specific studios that will allow you to submit scratch tracks and they will record the drums for you for just over $100 per song. They even allow you to listen to their work and change things if need be. This can also be done if you have orchestral parts.

I see the ads all the time in Sound on Sound. As a bass player, I'd never, ever hire a rent-a-drummer that way. I only cut it with people I would or do play with. I can't imagine a more horrible experience on my own projects.

You work out the string arrangements and then have them cut in eastern europe. My friend did this using a very good orchestra in Prague for far less than the cost if he'd have hired session people here. The bonus was he never had to leave his house!

And this is why so much music is shit - there's no interaction. You can hear it on Brave New World as an example. It's not organic. I'm sorry, if it works for you and your friend, more power to you.

Another thing about the studio is that it's usually a great environment to work in. I feel so much better in a studio - I'd be a studio rat if I knew it paid well lol The reality is that the studio is a great and creative place - much moreso than a home studio in my eyes. At home I'll do all my arrangements in Sibelius (yes, I do real scores and such) or transcribe things, but a studio is just magical.

The art of mixing has changed. If your recording engineer is also going to be your mixing engineer there is no reason that it should take long to mix a song. He should already know where he's going. It also depends on how much outboard gear they are using. If the album is mixed entirely in the box (using only the computer and the plugins for effects) then the song will already be premixed by the time you get to the mixing stage.

Well, duh. With automation you can do some premixing, but on my projects I never do any real EQ or balancing during tracking. ONce you start EQing and you get the drum mix down, everything usually changes.

It's a brave new world when it comes to the art of producing music. If you can embrace the newer ways of doing things you will save a ton of money. Of course with your big band project you're screwed. There's virtually no way you could do that at home. However it's no a rock record so comparing it is like comparing apples to oranges.

And while I could record at home, I never would. I have good gear, but I use it for demo stuff. The studio is just better for doing the real deal.

I agree, most hobby recordists have no idea how to get decent sounds in their own home. However it is possible and all it takes is experimentation and knowing what to listen for. That's the beauty of home recording, you have time to experiment until the sound is right without having to pay a huge bill. One of my favorite tricks for a dry mic'ed up amp song is to build a little house around an amp using couch cushions and hiding an sm57 inside. Perfectly viable technique and it mimics what a lot of studios do with baffles. Of course I've also been prone to throwing a guitar amp in the shower to get a wicked reverb effect. Learned that one from an interview done with Joe Perry. While Joe has a studio at his house he has a habit of placing amps in strange places in his home to achieve certain sounds.

In theory I can agree that the studio is better but not necessarily because the sound will be better. The studio is better because the room is a known factor. At home you have to work to find the sweet spot. Once you find those sweet spots it can be just as good as any studio.

[elmotano]

So I disagree with you Shaka - recording is more than a few day affair. Mixing takes quite a few days, and you want to live with mixes before you even consider mastering. Never mix everything all in one shot. It can take a few months to really only do 3 or 4 songs when all is said and done.

I'm actually going back in the studio in March to record with the covers project I'm playing with and am most likely recording another jazz album this year which will set me back big time in terms of cost since it's going to be a big band project.

The other thing about a studio is you have folks who can hopefully give you an objective ear on what's going on. I trust the guy I work with - he won't bullshit me.

You can disagree that's fine. However, I do have knowledge about that which I speak. I respect your opinion as a fellow musician.

It all depend on how prepared you are before you go into the studio. If you know exactly what's going to be put to tape going in and you have decent players you can cut a record in in as little as one to three days. I've been involved in these projects so I know it can happen.

I agree with you. Most of the time (not all the time) drums require a decent room and an engineer that is worth his salt. There are only about two recording engineers in my area who I will trust to record drums on my projects. With that said there are other avenues for drums. There are drum specific studios that will allow you to submit scratch tracks and they will record the drums for you for just over $100 per song. They even allow you to listen to their work and change things if need be. This can also be done if you have orchestral parts. You work out the string arrangements and then have them cut in eastern europe. My friend did this using a very good orchestra in Prague for far less than the cost if he'd have hired session people here. The bonus was he never had to leave his house!

Here's how I like to work:

1. preproduction to work on arrangements.

2. Rent Studio for for half a day to cut up to four songs live. The important thing with this session is to get the drums down. If nothing else can be kept but the drums are good that's ok. The drummers I use usually can pull off a song in one to three takes. If I'm able to get the drums down before my booked time is over I'll use the rest of the time to track bass.

3. Everything else can be done in my condo. Yes, even guitars when I crank my Matchless Lightning. If I have to I'll cruise over to my parents house with an interface and my laptop and crank a plexi or Twin. Usually I'm pretty happy with the tracks I can cut with my Champ, Lightning, Reverberocket, and 18 watt Marshall clone. The great thing about finishing tracking at home is it gives me time to be creative with my guitar arrangements and try new tones. It's also great for vocals as I can experiment with melody and harmonies without shelling out dough to a studio. My favorite thing is I can do all of this for FREE!

4. Repeat process until you have enough tracks to put out some product.


The art of mixing has changed. If your recording engineer is also going to be your mixing engineer there is no reason that it should take long to mix a song. He should already know where he's going. It also depends on how much outboard gear they are using. If the album is mixed entirely in the box (using only the computer and the plugins for effects) then the song will already be premixed by the time you get to the mixing stage.

It's a brave new world when it comes to the art of producing music. If you can embrace the newer ways of doing things you will save a ton of money. Of course with your big band project you're screwed. There's virtually no way you could do that at home. However it's no a rock record so comparing it is like comparing apples to oranges.

I wish it were this easy for me...and I record at home. It takes me weeks and with help of other's ears to come close to getting it right.
You must have some serious skill!

[shaka]

Well, a major source of funding while I was in college was being a session musician. Any time I was in the studio I hung out in the control room and watched everything the engineers did. I also asked a lot of questions. It sounds funny but if the engineer would let me I'd plant a chair right behind his so that I could hear what he heard and pick up on what he was doing. Eventually I got to the point where I became a passable recording engineer. I also did a lot of work when I was an engineer/producer for a multimedia company. This gave me a lot of time to practice. Actually I wasn't hired as a sound engineer at all I was hire as a computer programmer. However they learned that I had a ton of audio related experience and the tapped it. Then along with my programming duties I also did all the audio production. It was fun because we had a small in-house studio yet sometimes I'd get to go work on my projects in one of the big dogs.

While I've drifted out of the programming, multimedia, and recording industries I still do sessions once in a while for people. I also get asked to help others from a production standpoint. I still do my own projects of course. My cousin and I currently have a project that's being shopped in europe of all places.

[shaka]

="StyxCollector

There are drum specific studios that will allow you to submit scratch tracks and they will record the drums for you for just over $100 per song. They even allow you to listen to their work and change things if need be. This can also be done if you have orchestral parts.

I see the ads all the time in Sound on Sound. As a bass player, I'd never, ever hire a rent-a-drummer that way. I only cut it with people I would or do play with. I can't imagine a more horrible experience on my own projects.

You work out the string arrangements and then have them cut in eastern europe. My friend did this using a very good orchestra in Prague for far less than the cost if he'd have hired session people here. The bonus was he never had to leave his house!

And this is why so much music is shit - there's no interaction. You can hear it on Brave New World as an example. It's not organic. I'm sorry, if it works for you and your friend, more power to you.

Another thing about the studio is that it's usually a great environment to work in. I feel so much better in a studio - I'd be a studio rat if I knew it paid well lol The reality is that the studio is a great and creative place - much moreso than a home studio in my eyes. At home I'll do all my arrangements in Sibelius (yes, I do real scores and such) or transcribe things, but a studio is just magical.


Well, duh. With automation you can do some premixing, but on my projects I never do any real EQ or balancing during tracking. ONce you start EQing and you get the drum mix down, everything usually changes.

And while I could record at home, I never would. I have good gear, but I use it for demo stuff. The studio is just better for doing the real deal.

Ahhh, don't sell the rent a drummers short. I know of a couple of places that do excellent jobs. They are cost effective because you don't have to spend hours setting up a kit and getting sounds to cut a decent track. These guys already have their drums mic'ed and ready to go. With most of them you can spec snares and kick sounds which gives some flexibility. I know a couple of these firms that do an excellent job. Keep in mind this is what Todd will be doing.

As far as the orchestra in Prague....They did a kick ass job. The tracks were cut at Smecky Studio which does a lot of stuff for movies and TV. Look at the client list in the link. My buddy was able to produce the session in LA (Sound Factory I think) with a linkup to the studio in Prague. However, it isn't necessary to be linked up via the net, ISDN, or satallite. Most guys do orchestral scores in Finale or Sibelius and then hand it off to the conductor anyway. This happens whether your in LA, New York, Salt Lake, or Prague. The musicians in Prague are all top rate but the price is in line with what a single musician funding his own project could afford. Previously the only other option for this guy would be to cut the orchestral tracks entirely on a sampler. I for one think it's great that this is now an option when previously it would be impossible for someone to add a real orchestra without major funding.

http://www.barrandov.cz/en/smecky-recording-studio

I firmly believe that these are becoming perfectly valid ways to cut a record.

Also, I never said that the mix was done by the time tracking had finished. I simply said that the song is pre-mixed. This saves huge amounts of time in mixing the final. Most guys know where they want to go with the mix when tracking is finished. It's nice to have some of those first stages already accomplished.