DDY Keswick Theater Show

[FormerDJMike]

DDY concert review.....aaannnddd yet another thread has gone to shit

It's pretty darn near impossible for a thread in this forum not to go in that direction. Guess this is what happens when you have a fractured fan base.

I'm done, I'll remain in lurk mode until there is an actual discussion and not a pissing contest

+1

[Monker]

"Be Good To Yourself" (#9 hit)
"Girl Can't Help It" (#17 hit)
"I'll Be Alright Without You" (#14 hit)


all these have been played extensively post Perry Journey,
In fact BGTY I bet is played 95% of the time

The only reason Journey does not play there lesser hits like Walks Like a Lady, WYLAM, Parties Over...ect
Is that Journey only does 2-3 band package deals and they know the casual fans only want to hear the FM radio hits that are still played on classic rock stations. Neal I bet would love to play ROR hits. Where have you heard he hates it?

Remember Journey Managment thinks we are all stupid so all we get is the DD and package tours.

This is a correct statement. Monker doesn't know shit. I've seen Journey more than I've seen Styx and they have played BGTY almost every time and the other two about half the time.[/quote

No it's not a correct statement.

I didn't see "Be Good To Yourself" in the first couple lists from this past tour, but they are playing it now.
"Girl Can't Help It" was never played "extensively". That is simply NOT TRUE. You may find a couple instances, but it was NEVER a regular in the set.
"I'll Be Alright Without You" was played with Augeri...but not much with Arnel at all. Again, you may find a couple instances...but it was never a regular in the set, especially now.

It's also untrue to say management is in control of the set lists. The first few shows from the current tour were very different. NEAL wants the change...but the audience doesn't. NEAL and the band let the crowd control what they play...not management.

And, "Journey only does 2-3 band package deals and they know the casual fans only want to hear the FM radio hits that are still played on classic rock stations."

Replace Journey with Styx and that is EXACTLY what I am saying. I'm glad you finally agree.

[Monker]

DDY concert review.....aaannnddd yet another thread has gone to shit

It's pretty darn near impossible for a thread in this forum not to go in that direction. Guess this is what happens when you have a fractured fan base.

The post you wrote to start this thread was laced with comparisons between DDY and Styx and references to the common arguments on this forum. You did not just write a concert review, but a review to continue the arguments in this forum.

[Monker]

DDY concert review.....aaannnddd yet another thread has gone to shit

Good ole topher.

Relook at the thread and you tell me who started the negativity of this discussion...Masque started the IQ discussion....

It was there from the beginning.

[masque]

thanks monker!

[Monker]

if ddy plays ALL the hits, was the main creative force and drove the band to success in spite of tommy and JY then why doesnt he get the tours with def lep and foreigner and reo and journey and pat bentar and bad company and ted nugent?

That's an easy to answer question. He's not looking to do package tours and be committed to the time it takes to do tours like them. Not to mention it's fairly well known that DY is\was not that found of multiple bill shows. I think if he was, there would be something out there for him to latch onto. In regards to the brand issue, it's not all bullshit. It's also part of it. If the branding was not a big deal and people are coming to see TS and JY simply on their name recognition and the songs they play then they would have not worried about being able to keep the use of the brand wen DDY filed the lawsuit.

and that explanation 100% answers why tommy and jy have gone their separate ways from ddy.

I would think that if DDY were still in Styx, than some form of DY or maybe Shaw/Blades would exist and Styx would do some form of small tour every few years, maybe, and never release another album.

[Monker]

And Styx is not defined by Mr. Roboto? Babe? and Best of Times? You've got to be kidding me.

IMO, to John Doe "dumb ass" (your word) public, Styx is "defined" by "Come Sail Away" and "Renegade". All of these other songs are just familiar songs, maybe....but they don't "define" the band.

To MANY people, Journey defined and/or perfected the rock ballad....and "Open Arms" and "Faithfully" are their defining rock ballads. But, in today's world, "Don't Stop Believin" is the song that really defines Journey...and the rest are just familiar songs but don't really "define" the band.

yIf anything, Journey is considered by most to be more "hard rocking" than Styx

[Boomchild]

and that explanation 100% answers why tommy and jy have gone their separate ways from ddy.

Somehow I think it's a little bit deeper then that. Not to mention that early on they painted a picture that DDY did not want to tour or perform on the road at all. Which as we now know is not the case.

[Boomchild]

The issue of "what defined the band" is subject to opinion and viewpoints. That goes for their fans as well as the band members themselves. So, it doesn't seem to me that you can define it with utter certainty.

In order to make Monker feel more comfortable I have re-posted my reply without attaching any other comments in the thread.

[Monker]

And Styx is not defined by Mr. Roboto? Babe? and Best of Times? You've got to be kidding me.

IMO, to John Doe "dumb ass" (your word) public, Styx is "defined" by "Come Sail Away" and "Renegade". All of these other songs are just familiar songs, maybe....but they don't "define" the band.

To MANY people, Journey defined and/or perfected the rock ballad....and "Open Arms" and "Faithfully" are their defining rock ballads. But, in today's world, "Don't Stop Believin" is the song that really defines Journey...and the rest are just familiar songs but don't really "define" the band.

yIf anything, Journey is considered by most to be more "hard rocking" than Styx

The issue of "what defined the band" is subject to opinion and viewpoints. That goes for their fans as well as the band members themselves. So, it doesn't seem to me that you can define it with utter certainty.

Which is why I said, "IMO' and "To MANY people..."

[Monker]

and that explanation 100% answers why tommy and jy have gone their separate ways from ddy.

Somehow I think it's a little bit deeper then that. Not to mention that early on they painted a picture that DDY did not want to tour or perform on the road at all. Which as we now know is not the case.

He had Hunchback on his brain. He put Hunchback on BNW. His first solo tour had Hunchback songs. He went on PBS and said he was trying to get a PBS Hunchback presentation (I have it on VHS). He even limited the last tour because he had Hunchback obligations.

So, you are right....it was deeper than just not wanting to tour because of light sensitivity.

[Toph]

And Styx is not defined by Mr. Roboto? Babe? and Best of Times? You've got to be kidding me.

IMO, to John Doe "dumb ass" (your word) public, Styx is "defined" by "Come Sail Away" and "Renegade". All of these other songs are just familiar songs, maybe....but they don't "define" the band.

To MANY people, Journey defined and/or perfected the rock ballad....and "Open Arms" and "Faithfully" are their defining rock ballads. But, in today's world, "Don't Stop Believin" is the song that really defines Journey...and the rest are just familiar songs but don't really "define" the band.

yIf anything, Journey is considered by most to be more "hard rocking" than Styx

Nope, they are defined by Roboto and Babe. Look at what gets the most applause at a DDY show.

[Toph]

and that explanation 100% answers why tommy and jy have gone their separate ways from ddy.

Somehow I think it's a little bit deeper then that. Not to mention that early on they painted a picture that DDY did not want to tour or perform on the road at all. Which as we now know is not the case.

He had Hunchback on his brain. He put Hunchback on BNW. His first solo tour had Hunchback songs. He went on PBS and said he was trying to get a PBS Hunchback presentation (I have it on VHS). He even limited the last tour because he had Hunchback obligations.

So, you are right....it was deeper than just not wanting to tour because of light sensitivity.

Ummm, the last tour wasn't even supposed to happen. He only did it because Tommy needed the money so bad. But we often forget about that because it diminishes the notion that DDY is an asshole.

[Boomchild]

Which is why I said, "IMO' and "To MANY people..."

Didn't say you didn't say that.

[Boomchild]

He had Hunchback on his brain. He put Hunchback on BNW. His first solo tour had Hunchback songs. He went on PBS and said he was trying to get a PBS Hunchback presentation (I have it on VHS). He even limited the last tour because he had Hunchback obligations.

So, you are right....it was deeper than just not wanting to tour because of light sensitivity.

The Hunchback stuff was in play before the reunion came up and he had commitments to meet. I wouldn't doubt DDY made them aware of it. In regards to the last tour being limited, they were supposed be on a break that year. They came to DDY and asked if he could do some touring dates because someone in the band needed the money. So even though there were no Styx plans at that time he agreed to do it. So it wasn't something planned out and then cut short by DDY.

[Monker]

And Styx is not defined by Mr. Roboto? Babe? and Best of Times? You've got to be kidding me.

IMO, to John Doe "dumb ass" (your word) public, Styx is "defined" by "Come Sail Away" and "Renegade". All of these other songs are just familiar songs, maybe....but they don't "define" the band.

To MANY people, Journey defined and/or perfected the rock ballad....and "Open Arms" and "Faithfully" are their defining rock ballads. But, in today's world, "Don't Stop Believin" is the song that really defines Journey...and the rest are just familiar songs but don't really "define" the band.

yIf anything, Journey is considered by most to be more "hard rocking" than Styx

Nope, they are defined by Roboto and Babe. Look at what gets the most applause at a DDY show.

Boomchild,

The above comment by Toph is what it looks like when someone believes their opinion is fact. When you decide to make a point that people do not know the difference, please reply to a post such as this...It would make much more sense.

[Monker]

He had Hunchback on his brain. He put Hunchback on BNW. His first solo tour had Hunchback songs. He went on PBS and said he was trying to get a PBS Hunchback presentation (I have it on VHS). He even limited the last tour because he had Hunchback obligations.

So, you are right....it was deeper than just not wanting to tour because of light sensitivity.

The Hunchback stuff was in play before the reunion came up and he had commitments to meet. I wouldn't doubt DDY made them aware of it. In regards to the last tour being limited, they were supposed be on a break that year. They came to DDY and asked if he could do some touring dates because someone in the band needed the money. So even though there were no Styx plans at that time he agreed to do it. So it wasn't something planned out and then cut short by DDY.

EXACTLY my point. The "Hunchback" stuff had been in play since the early 90's and continued through the early 2000's...who knows, it may still be in play today. The simple fact is he allowed it to distract himself from Styx. So, there are absolutely deeper reasons why he is no longer in the band.

[Boomchild]

He had Hunchback on his brain. He put Hunchback on BNW. His first solo tour had Hunchback songs. He went on PBS and said he was trying to get a PBS Hunchback presentation (I have it on VHS). He even limited the last tour because he had Hunchback obligations.

So, you are right....it was deeper than just not wanting to tour because of light sensitivity.

The Hunchback stuff was in play before the reunion came up and he had commitments to meet. I wouldn't doubt DDY made them aware of it. In regards to the last tour being limited, they were supposed be on a break that year. They came to DDY and asked if he could do some touring dates because someone in the band needed the money. So even though there were no Styx plans at that time he agreed to do it. So it wasn't something planned out and then cut short by DDY.

EXACTLY my point. The "Hunchback" stuff had been in play since the early 90's and continued through the early 2000's...who knows, it may still be in play today. The simple fact is he allowed it to distract himself from Styx. So, there are absolutely deeper reasons why he is no longer in the band.

That's not it exactly. Due to the fact that when you brought up the tour following the RTP tour you painted a picture as if the tour was planned and DDY changed the plans. This is just more rehash of the same old stuff which I don't think long new threads need to be created. That being said, only the band members can shed light on how it effected the bands plans. The only thing I have really seen them comment about was that Hunchback was an example of the artistic differences between DDY and the others.

[gr8dane]

DDY concert review.....aaannnddd yet another thread has gone to shit

Good ole topher.

Relook at the thread and you tell me who started the negativity of this discussion...Masque started the IQ discussion....

Guess you must have missed the very first reply,which just happened to be yours.
Starting to bring masque,monker et al into your reply.

[gr8dane]

DDY concert review.....aaannnddd yet another thread has gone to shit

It's pretty darn near impossible for a thread in this forum not to go in that direction. Guess this is what happens when you have a fractured fan base.

I'm done, I'll remain in lurk mode until there is an actual discussion and not a pissing contest

You could try and be part of the discussion,by saying your bit ,before the pissing contest starts.
But of course that will be hard ,when the title of the thread starts with,
'Attendance is staggering'
'Illusion that folks want to hear the hits'
Sucks to be Don Felder'
Which is pissing match, starting right there and then,before any reply has even been posted.
Good ole topher.

[pinkfloyd1973]

You could try and be part of the discussion,by saying your bit ,before the pissing contest starts.
But of course that will be hard ,when the title of the thread starts with,
'Attendance is staggering'
'Illusion that folks want to hear the hits'
Sucks to be Don Felder'
Which is pissing match, starting right there and then,before any reply has even been posted.
Good ole topher.

Well seeing that this thread was about DDY's show at the Keswick Theatre, you would think it would be about that and not the same rehash of other threads. But silly me, I guess this whole thing should read DDY versus Styx, since even the most innocent of threads goes wrong after the third post.

[Boomchild]

You could try and be part of the discussion,by saying your bit ,before the pissing contest starts.
But of course that will be hard ,when the title of the thread starts with,
'Attendance is staggering'
'Illusion that folks want to hear the hits'
Sucks to be Don Felder'
Which is pissing match, starting right there and then,before any reply has even been posted.
Good ole topher.

Well seeing that this thread was about DDY's show at the Keswick Theatre, you would think it would be about that and not the same rehash of other threads. But silly me, I guess this whole thing should read DDY versus Styx, since even the most innocent of threads goes wrong after the third post.

I would like to give my most humble apology for not coming up with a more antagonizing thread title.

[Monker]

You could try and be part of the discussion,by saying your bit ,before the pissing contest starts.
But of course that will be hard ,when the title of the thread starts with,
'Attendance is staggering'
'Illusion that folks want to hear the hits'
Sucks to be Don Felder'
Which is pissing match, starting right there and then,before any reply has even been posted.
Good ole topher.

Well seeing that this thread was about DDY's show at the Keswick Theatre, you would think it would be about that and not the same rehash of other threads. But silly me, I guess this whole thing should read DDY versus Styx, since even the most innocent of threads goes wrong after the third post.

It was wrong from the FIRST post:

Some interesting things that I observed that night was the crowd's reaction to Babe and DLIE. In other threads here people have commented that fans don't seem to want to hear those songs as much and how they are forgotten since radio does not play them anymore. Those two songs got more applause and crowd reaction then others in the set. So, I think the common perception from a casual fan standpoint is the reverse. Meaning that the casual fan is interested in hearing those songs since they don't hear them on the radio all the time. The other thing is the whole debate of just which act better represents Styx' music. Frankly, I think it comes down to which one you are seeing. When your seeing the current Styx you'll get the response that they do when talking to other fans. When you are seeing DDY you get the complete opposite response. So to me you can't use it as bench mark as to which is the most accurate answer.

Boom Boom brought arguments from OTHER THREADS into his FIRST POST. It was there from the beginning. Toph picked up on that and made his post. Then everything else followed. Innocent post about a DDY show is complete bullshit. It was a post to continue the arguments on other threads.

And, I made this complaint years and years ago that no pro-Styx thread can exist without it being hijacked. Too bad it took you and others so long to catch up.

[masque]

You could try and be part of the discussion,by saying your bit ,before the pissing contest starts.
But of course that will be hard ,when the title of the thread starts with,
'Attendance is staggering'
'Illusion that folks want to hear the hits'
Sucks to be Don Felder'
Which is pissing match, starting right there and then,before any reply has even been posted.
Good ole topher.

Well seeing that this thread was about DDY's show at the Keswick Theatre, you would think it would be about that and not the same rehash of other threads. But silly me, I guess this whole thing should read DDY versus Styx, since even the most innocent of threads goes wrong after the third post.

listen, i can HONESTLY tell you that I hate the stupid pissing match stuff.....i truly do.....i love the band, their music....all members of it! i wish both camps the best of luck. I wish they could work together but it's obvious they cant. for those of us who wish they were together it sucks.......so i try to make the best of it.

if you will look back at some of my posts you will see that only in recent months have I really ever been a part of the "pissing match".....i have been a member of this board for years and usually had little to say.

being an avid styx fan there are limited places you can go and find folks who still want to discuss the band or its members in great detail these days.....so to be here, with folks that do is great.

quite honestly, i have simply grown sooooooooooooooo tired of seeing thread after thread after thread of toph trying to start arguments and spread his hate that I finally had enough and dove into the world of useless debate with him.

in retrospect, i wish i had not done that.......but some things have been said that I just couldnt refrain from commenting on. I have no desire to make coming to the board less desirable for anyone else.....so I sincerely apologize to you or anybody else that feels that way.

[yogi]

The 'REAL' Styx does NOT exist without DDY. We now have an aggregate Styx. Which is great. I have seen their shows MANY MANY times and they do TOTAL justice to the Styx name and its brand. But are they the 'REAL' Styx - Hell no. Dennis will ALWAYS be the founding and the main member of the band STYX. He was and always will be Styx's SUPERSTAR. They are living and making a living off of what Dennis made them.

On the flip side Dennis band will also NEVER be Styx. Tommy and JY were far too important to the 'REAL' Styx so DDY's band is also Styx in the aggregate. Does DDY's band do justice to the Styx name.... Hell yes but its still an aggregate version of what Styx was.

We should all be happy as hell that in 2014 both aggregate bands are still out their trying to recreate the magic that was the REAL Styx.

Just watched Moneyball for the 100tH time and love the word aggregate!

[yogi]

Just read an article in USAToday www.usatoday.com where Jeremy Giambi will be replacing Ricky Phillips on guitar for the remainder of their current tour.

[Boomchild]

It was wrong from the FIRST post:

Some interesting things that I observed that night was the crowd's reaction to Babe and DLIE. In other threads here people have commented that fans don't seem to want to hear those songs as much and how they are forgotten since radio does not play them anymore. Those two songs got more applause and crowd reaction then others in the set. So, I think the common perception from a casual fan standpoint is the reverse. Meaning that the casual fan is interested in hearing those songs since they don't hear them on the radio all the time. The other thing is the whole debate of just which act better represents Styx' music. Frankly, I think it comes down to which one you are seeing. When your seeing the current Styx you'll get the response that they do when talking to other fans. When you are seeing DDY you get the complete opposite response. So to me you can't use it as bench mark as to which is the most accurate answer.

Boom Boom brought arguments from OTHER THREADS into his FIRST POST. It was there from the beginning. Toph picked up on that and made his post. Then everything else followed. Innocent post about a DDY show is complete bullshit. It was a post to continue the arguments on other threads.

And, I made this complaint years and years ago that no pro-Styx thread can exist without it being hijacked. Too bad it took you and others so long to catch up.

Excuse me but just who are you to determine what is a correct or wrong posting here? My comments quoted above were thoughts I had after going to see DDY and the recent discussions here. If you don't agree with my viewpoints that's just fine and dandy. But it no way was it just to continue some "argument". The fact of the matter is that 99.9% of the time anything posted in this forum regardless of the topic or whether it is positive or negative about DDY or the the current Styx gets derailed. So the topic or content of a thread here really doesn't matter.

[Boomchild]

On the flip side Dennis band will also NEVER be Styx. Tommy and JY were far too important to the 'REAL' Styx so DDY's band is also Styx in the aggregate. Does DDY's band do justice to the Styx name.... Hell yes but its still an aggregate version of what Styx was.

We should all be happy as hell that in 2014 both aggregate bands are still out their trying to recreate the magic that was the REAL Styx.

I agree. Once you start replacing personnel it's never the same band. You right that we should be happy that these guys are even out there still doing shows.

[Toph]

if ddy plays ALL the hits, was the main creative force and drove the band to success in spite of tommy and JY then why doesnt he get the tours with def lep and foreigner and reo and journey and pat bentar and bad company and ted nugent?

That's an easy to answer question. He's not looking to do package tours and be committed to the time it takes to do tours like them. Not to mention it's fairly well known that DY is\was not that found of multiple bill shows. I think if he was, there would be something out there for him to latch onto. In regards to the brand issue, it's not all bullshit. It's also part of it. If the branding was not a big deal and people are coming to see TS and JY simply on their name recognition and the songs they play then they would have not worried about being able to keep the use of the brand wen DDY filed the lawsuit.

and that explanation 100% answers why tommy and jy have gone their separate ways from ddy.

Give him credit, DDY never wanted to water down the brand. He never saw Styx taking anything but a headline slot and he stuck to his guns. He would rather Styx not tour than do a package tours where you either split the headline role or God forbid, be an opening act (as was the case during the Journey tour.) I remember some interviews with him when the new lineup was opening up in which he specifically stated that the bands Styx was opening up for would have been opening up for them back in the day. He knew branding and felt that there was an air of specialness that you needed to create.

He also would never have released all the various live and greatest hits manifestations. Recall, he didn't even wanted to release GH2 as he felt it was watering down the brand since, let's face it, Styx doesn't have 2 CDs worth of greatest hits. I can count on one hand the number of songs of GH2 that were actual "hits".

From DDY's perspective, incessant touring and compilations/live albums over-saturated the market with Styx product. It made it less special. Its actually very smart business sense, but it takes tons of discipline. Other members of the band and that money grubber Charlie Bruscoe didn't understand the strategy or valued short term monetary gains more than longer term brand building. Happens in corporations all the time...

[Monker]

Excuse me but just who are you to determine what is a correct or wrong posting here?

PinkFloyd dude is telling people what is right/wrong to post. All I did was restate what was posted.

My comments quoted above were thoughts I had after going to see DDY and the recent discussions here.

EXACTLY. YOUR FIRST POST brought in arguments from other threads. It wasn't Toph, it wasn't me, it wasn't anybody else, it was YOU.

If you don't agree with my viewpoints that's just fine and dandy. But it no way was it just to continue some "argument".

Your own post disagrees with you. Reread the words I quoted.

The fact of the matter is that 99.9% of the time anything posted in this forum regardless of the topic or whether it is positive or negative about DDY or the the current Styx gets derailed. So the topic or content of a thread here really doesn't matter.

[/quote]

LOL...so what? I said that almost 10yrs ago. Get over it, or lurk, or leave the forum...as many others have.