New Tommy Shaw Interview

[cittadeeno23]

You are right. We do way too much coulda, woulda, shoulda!
But I just think it is so obvious this band was primed for "Monster" status.

In the end we got what we got. 2 versions of the band playing in small venues. I guess it could be worse. We could have NOTHING! 1984-1989 was some lonely times for Styx fans!

[DerriD]

I've said this before and I will say it again.

If Styx had put out a STRAIGHT forward rock album instead of Kilroy, and if they had stayed together and put out another
STRAIGHT Forward rock album in 1985, they would have went over the top in popularity. 1983-1987 were prime MTV years.
Look how many dead-in-the-water bands had HUGE albums in those years.
Dire Straights, Heart, Yes. They are a few of the many bands who got most of their fame during those MTV years.
Styx missed the boat. If they had released rock albums in 1983, 1985 and 1987, I would guess they could have sold another 12-15 million albums between the 3 releases. MTV made many crappy bands bigger than they should have been.
Styx was the most talented band on the planet and would have went through the roof if they had played their cards right.
I don't think this is an over-estimate. I think if managed properly, Styx COULD have been one of the most poplular bands of all time. They broke up at the worst possible time. It is a huge missed opportunity in my opinion.
Styx sold 4 consecutive triple platinum albums WITHOUT the help of the Elitists who run the Music industry. Imagine what several more years of exposure on MTV could had done for them.

Kilroy killed the band! It's that simple.

I'm not sure how big Styx would have gotten under those circumstances, but certainly Aerosmith big. People overplay how big Aerosmith actually is. They had a couple of big albums in the 70's, but before they had their reunion they didn't have a hits package like Styx. After they reunited, they had 3 big albums (Vacation, Pump and Grip) and one huge single (Don't want to miss a thing). Since then, virtually nothing. 3 more big Styx albums would almost certainly put them up there with Aerosmith. Not to mention, once you put together 12-15 years of hit albums, you start getting respect from the critics since you've proven to be more than a flash in the pan. That's when you can be a Jimmy Buffet or a Bruce Springsteen and have no hits in 15 years and yet sell out every seat to every show.

[kipthekid]

A couple of years ago, "New Styx diehards" would chide "DeYoungians" for lamenting the fact that Dennis was no longer with Styx - there was an apparent unwritten "time table" in which people had to express their frustration over the situation. I always found that to be a bit silly and rather sanctimonious - Styx is "Styx" because of the lineup that included Tommy, JY and Dennis. If people wanted to embrace the new lineup...fine...if people wanted to discuss "what if?" and "why?" that's just as "fine."

What's INTERESTING to me was the fact that it was "New Styx" - namely JY with a little Chuck and Todd thrown in - who wouldn't "let it go" - and JY STILL isn't letting it go. Whatever media is still following Styx - and Dennis - still isn't letting it go. It's not a "dead issue" and probably won't be as long as some form of "Styx" continues to "play out."

In a similar veign, I don't see ANY issue with playing "woulda, coulda, shoulda" re: the history of Styx. If there wasn't an element of this, why would there be any interest in books like "The Grand Delusion?" It is, for some of us, "fun" surmising "what might have been." It's every bit as fun, IMHO, as warbling on about how long "New Styx" gets to play when they're warming up for Def Leppard (or, as I prefer it, Leopard).

In 1981, Paradise Theater received far better press than previous Styx efforts. Was it justified? Not necessarily - Styx didn't deserve much of the criticism they received before that. Bruce Springsteen was as bombastic and over the top as ANYONE with "Born To Run" and he was lauded. Still, better management and press relations made Paradise Theater an album that attracted some new fans and some new (positive) press. They had an IMMENSELY popular world tour. It was the first concert I ever saw and it was and still is the best concert I ever saw. Nothing Dennis or "New Styx" does today comes even REMOTELY close to that experience. Neither did several other acts I saw after that (including Springsteen). They were THAT good.

I realize that egos ultimately killed "the thing we loved." Still...egos or not...a suitable follow-up to Paradise Theater would have taken this band to easy HOF status. Forget the other U.S. "arena" bands - Styx would have been on par with Queen and similar world-wide arena acts. That kind of mega-success MAY have helped, for a time, assuage some of the egos that were tearing things apart.

[StyxCollector]

I realize that egos ultimately killed "the thing we loved." Still...egos or not...a suitable follow-up to Paradise Theater would have taken this band to easy HOF status. Forget the other U.S. "arena" bands - Styx would have been on par with Queen and similar world-wide arena acts. That kind of mega-success MAY have helped, for a time, assuage some of the egos that were tearing things apart.

100% disagree here with the Queen comparison. Queen was big everywhere including the US (but that dropped off after 1981). Styx was big here and in Canada, but had marginal success overall on the worldwide stage. I don't ever think they would have attained "Queen status".

[blt man]

Kilroy killed the band! It's that simple.

I'd like to chime in here for just one quick moment: KILROY may have been the stick the band members used to beat the entity and each other to death, but it was really just the excuse they had been looking for. EGO killed Styx. Differing ego agendas and the unwillingness to deal with each other anymore. First in 1983, and then again in 1999. That's the sad thing to me about this band . . . I know privately they have a lot of anger because they feel they could have been bigger, and the hell of it is, they really could. But they still seem incapable of seeing their own roles in that, choosing instead to blame one another and the people who guided them. That's a shame, because this is really something that this band chose to do to itself, rather than something that anyone else did to it.

I hope all is well.


Sterling

In the early 80s KILROY may have killed Styx or may have been the stick the band members used to beat the entity and each other to death. But, today, in 2007, it is the only thing that keeps them in the minds of millions of people. None of the other bands or groups mentioned can buy the publicity given to Styx by Mr. Roboto (though, it may not be the type of publicy that all of the band members want).

[StyxCollector]

In the early 80s KILROY may have killed Styx or may have been the stick the band members used to beat the entity and each other to death. But, today, in 2007, it is the only thing that keeps them in the minds of millions of people. None of the other bands or groups mentioned can buy the publicity given to Styx by Mr. Roboto (though, it may not be the type of publicy that all of the band members want).

So that leaves all involved with a dilemma: embrace it or "condemn" it. I've said numerous times if Styx embraced this stuff more - and had Tommy singing some of the DDY songs that Gowan just can't handle - they'd be fine. I'm not saying whip out "First Time". The path they've chosen isn't a bad one, it's just a different option than warmly embracing your past, "flaws" and all.

[kipthekid]

Paradise Theater was not only huge in the states - it made significant head way world wide. Styx had, BY FAR, it's most successful world tour to support that album. Even the "snooty" British rock press took notice of Styx and has commented in the past about Styx' failure to produce a "suitable" follow-up.

Whether they would have been "as big" as Queen we'll never truly know...but they were on their way to ascending to that level of mega-stardom. Many forget just how successful Paradise Theater was - particularly the tour to support it.

[StyxCollector]

Paradise Theater was not only huge in the states - it made significant head way world wide. Styx had, BY FAR, it's most successful world tour to support that album. Even the "snooty" British rock press took notice of Styx and has commented in the past about Styx' failure to produce a "suitable" follow-up.

Whether they would have been "as big" as Queen we'll never truly know...but they were on their way to ascending to that level of mega-stardom. Many forget just how successful Paradise Theater was - particularly the tour to support it.

Also remember at that time Styx had played Europe on three consecutive tours (mini-tour in 78, Cornerstone, PT). They tried to establish a market there. PT was a huge album overall in the grand scheme of Styxdom, but the only song that seemed to chart (highest #42) was "The Best of Times" in the UK. That's not very huge. I'm not sure what the album charted at, and we all know critical success does not equate to other success.

I'm confident in saying Styx would never be as big as Queen. Queen was huge in the 70s on the world stage and was even bigger in the 80s (look at the size venues they played in 1985/6). Styx had no such momentum. I like Styx, but they never had success on the level of Queen or were on track for it.

Even Journey, whose Escape album was bigger overall worldwide than PT, couldn't get Queen status outside of the USA.

[stabbim]

In a similar veign, I don't see ANY issue with playing "woulda, coulda, shoulda" re: the history of Styx. If there wasn't an element of this, why would there be any interest in books like "The Grand Delusion?" It is, for some of us, "fun" surmising "what might have been." It's every bit as fun, IMHO, as warbling on about how long "New Styx" gets to play when they're warming up for Def Leppard (or, as I prefer it, Leopard).

Sure, go nuts. This is all idle chat anyway, one topic's about as meaningful as another. But there's no point in being surprised &/or offended that some folks who've had their fill of "woulda coulda shoulda" over the past decade or so choose to roll their eyes when it comes to infest yet another thread.

[StyxCollector]

stabbim's on the money. Those of us who date back to the internet only e-mail lists (pre-dating the current Indra one) since the mid-90s are kinda played out. Understandably all of the newbies want in on everything that has been reheated 7,000 times over especially in the past 8 years.

I said it elsewhere: to me, everything after 1996 is a gift since I didn't even expect that to happen. People have lost touch with that. Anyone who had half a brain couldn't think it would last given this band's history. I didn't. I'm glad for 1996, surprised 1997 happened, and expected the mess of 1999.

[kipthekid]

like I said, sanctimony carries the day. It's especially ironic when someone else writes "why I like Cyclorama better than '100 Years'..etc." Again - I have NO problem with it, but that same sort of "infestation" - i.e. which Styx-related product is "better" than the other is arguably MORE grating/annoying/silly than simply pondering what Styx "might" have been.

IMHO, the bigger "infestation" are the individuals who, from day 1, thought that "everyone" should "move on" and not "dwell" on Styx losing arguably it's most influential founding member...ESPECIALLY given the fact that the current manifestation of Styx CONTINUES to discuss it to this day.

Finally, as I said, discussing what might have been is every bit as "interesting" - arguably far more so for many - than pondering which Church festival Tommy, JY and boys are playing next or whether a re-constituted Dokken will allow Styx 25 or 30 minutes to open for them.

What keeps the majority of fans coming to see Styx IS the past. The fact that Sterling can sell books is because people are interested in the Styx of the past and what made them tick/what made them fall apart.

[StyxCollector]

IMHO, the bigger "infestation" are the individuals who, from day 1, thought that "everyone" should "move on" and not "dwell" on Styx losing arguably it's most influential founding member...ESPECIALLY given the fact that the current manifestation of Styx CONTINUES to discuss it to this day.

No question DDY was crucial for their success. I've even been accused of siding with DDY (which everyone knows isn't the case; I'm in th emiddle here). However, I would argue without the addition of Tommy Shaw in 1975 to replace JC, Styx would be a pimple on the ass of rock music. The combination of that lineup allowed Styx to become what it did. Did DDY arguably have a big portion of the overall creative vision/direction? Most likely. However, it wasn't happening without Tommy. Can you imagine GI with JC still in the band? I sure can't. That's no knock on JC, either.

What keeps the majority of fans coming to see Styx IS the past.

And this is also why many of us are critical of them for ignoring a good deal of it. "Roboto" is a good example. I don't care if it's Tommy singing "The Best of Times" or you don't do it every night. Just do it enough to recognize your legacy. Hell, they're just getting around to doing songs like "Midnight Ride" which I've been bitching they should have done from the onset of those Evening With ... shows in 1999. If you are going to embrace a DDY-less legacy, they could have done it so much better over these years. I fear they're doing it too late for it to remotely matter.

[stabbim]

like I said, sanctimony carries the day.

"Sanctimony?"

Dude...I don't think Allan or I could have been more polite in expressing our views on the situation. Again: no one is trying to stop you from talking about whatever you want to be talking about. I just don't know how much more clear it can be made.

[Rockwriter]

like I said, sanctimony carries the day. It's especially ironic when someone else writes "why I like Cyclorama better than '100 Years'..etc." Again - I have NO problem with it, but that same sort of "infestation" - i.e. which Styx-related product is "better" than the other is arguably MORE grating/annoying/silly than simply pondering what Styx "might" have been.

IMHO, the bigger "infestation" are the individuals who, from day 1, thought that "everyone" should "move on" and not "dwell" on Styx losing arguably it's most influential founding member...ESPECIALLY given the fact that the current manifestation of Styx CONTINUES to discuss it to this day.

Finally, as I said, discussing what might have been is every bit as "interesting" - arguably far more so for many - than pondering which Church festival Tommy, JY and boys are playing next or whether a re-constituted Dokken will allow Styx 25 or 30 minutes to open for them.

What keeps the majority of fans coming to see Styx IS the past. The fact that Sterling can sell books is because people are interested in the Styx of the past and what made them tick/what made them fall apart.

Without wanting to get involved in any argument that I most sincerely don't care about - LOL - that last part is certainly true. For what it's worth, virtually ALL of the correspondence I get from Styx fans on either side of the equation is about the past, not the present, and the majority of it contains some permutation of "Will Dennis ever come back to Styx?" That's the money. It's not about Dennis, its not about Tommy . . . it's about Dennis AND Tommy together. That's what most fans want to see.

A friend of mine in the business here in Nashville put it to me like this once: if you are lucky enough to have success at all in the music biz, there will inevitably come a time when you will have to face that you are better-known for what you USED to do than what you're doing now. And that's where we are now. Tough to deal with for people with such substantial egos, but nonetheless, not such a bad fate in my view. Everyone should be happy with that, but if they were people that were fundamentally happy to begin with, then they wouldn't be artists, would they? It's a strange way to live and small wonder that most artists, whatvever their level of success, are deep down pretty unhappy, messed up people.

I hope all is well.


Sterling

[StyxCollector]

It's not about Dennis, its not about Tommy . . . it's about Dennis AND Tommy together. That's what most fans want to see.

What - no JY? LOL (and it's a joke people) I hit that above Sterling - we wouldn't be talking about Styx today if TS hadn't joined the band. Period.

A friend of mine in the business here in Nashville put it to me like this once: if you are lucky enough to have success at all in the music biz, there will inevitably come a time when you will have to face that you are better-known for what you USED to do than what you're doing now. And that's where we are now. Tough to deal with for people with such substantial egos, but nonetheless, not such a bad fate in my view. Everyone should be happy with that, but if they were people that were fundamentally happy to begin with, then they wouldn't be artists, would they? It's a strange way to live and small wonder that most artists, whatvever their level of success, are deep down pretty unhappy, messed up people.

Well, as I said earlier, you have two ways of dealing with your past. DDY seems to have made peace with it, and no one is expecting him to sing "Renegade". But Styx has not, and many fans still expect to hear certain songs.

It could be worse. They could be doing some desk job instead of touring and playing music. I feel bad for them

[Zan]

It could be worse. They could be doing some desk job instead of touring and playing music. I feel bad for them

Or, sitting around talking about someone else's music career on a message board all day! How bad would THAT suck?

[Zan]

like I said, sanctimony carries the day.

"Sanctimony?"

Dude...I don't think Allan or I could have been more polite in expressing our views on the situation. Again: no one is trying to stop you from talking about whatever you want to be talking about. I just don't know how much more clear it can be made.

I think you know, Stabbim.

[StyxCollector]

It could be worse. They could be doing some desk job instead of touring and playing music. I feel bad for them

Or, sitting around talking about someone else's music career on a message board all day! How bad would THAT suck?

Ha ... I think it's more like "sitting around worrying about someone else's music career on a message board all day"

[stabbim]

like I said, sanctimony carries the day.

"Sanctimony?"

Dude...I don't think Allan or I could have been more polite in expressing our views on the situation. Again: no one is trying to stop you from talking about whatever you want to be talking about. I just don't know how much more clear it can be made.

I think you know, Stabbim.

Fine ...Dan has a new addition to his dramatis personae, and I claim my $10.

Let us now speak of happier times.

[cinj]

we wouldn't be talking about Styx today if TS hadn't joined the band. Period.

Nor would we be talking about them if they hadn't changed musical direction in 1979 and sat on top of the world for a couple of years.
O.K. J.Y., maybe it did "alienate a core of your fans" but it also brought in a $#%*load more of them.

Cinj

[Zan]

Let us now speak of happier times.

OK!

Glen Burtnik in Atlanta, Baybee!!!! Wooo-friggin-hoooo!

[kipthekid]

intimating that individuals who speak of Styx' past as "infesting" message boards is the ultimate example of sanctimony. That's "polite?" I suppose it's all relative but I don't believe your choice of words would pass most individual's "politeness" test.

Not that it matters - it's actually pretty amusing.

[Rockwriter]

Let us now speak of happier times.

OK!

Glen Burtnik in Atlanta, Baybee!!!! Wooo-friggin-hoooo!

Is the actual date set for that? I guess I'm not up on that, LOL. But I'm hoping to go to that.


Sterling

[styxfansite]

Let us now speak of happier times.

OK!

Glen Burtnik in Atlanta, Baybee!!!! Wooo-friggin-hoooo!

Is the actual date set for that? I guess I'm not up on that, LOL. But I'm hoping to go to that.


Sterling

Is it this?

GLEN BURTNIK / RANDY JACKSON
(co-bill)
SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 15TH
The Redlight Cafe
553 Amsterdam Avenue
Atlanta, GA 30306
404-874-7828
www.redlightcafe.com

[styxfanNH]

Let us now speak of happier times.

OK!

Glen Burtnik in Atlanta, Baybee!!!! Wooo-friggin-hoooo!

Is the actual date set for that? I guess I'm not up on that, LOL. But I'm hoping to go to that.


Sterling

Is it this?

GLEN BURTNIK / RANDY JACKSON
(co-bill)
SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 15TH
The Redlight Cafe
553 Amsterdam Avenue
Atlanta, GA 30306
404-874-7828
www.redlightcafe.com

Thats it

[Zan]

intimating that individuals who speak of Styx' past as "infesting" message boards is the ultimate example of sanctimony. That's "polite?" I suppose it's all relative but I don't believe your choice of words would pass most individual's "politeness" test.

Excuse me, Kip, is it? Would you mind directly quoting Stabbim's disheartening comments here? I went back and read this entire thread, and I didn't see any example of rudeness from him.

If it's the post I think it might be, he didn't say any individuals were infesting message boards (even though we all know there are some who do, don't we?). He said not to be surprised when certain (same repeating) topics come to infest another thread. Big swinging mickeys. If you're that sensitive to all this, I suggest throwing on a coat to make up for the thin skin. No one is attacking anyone here.

As for 100 Years vs. Cyclo topics, I don't see those being old hat considering one of them was only released a month ago, and Cyclorama was Styx's most recent full-length album of original material. It makes sense to compare the two. If we're still doing it seven years from now, I might feel differently. LOL

Further, could you also maybe look up the word sanctimony? Because the ultimate definition has nothing to do with what you are saying. Thanks in advance.

[kipthekid]

what's that short for? Suzanne? Xanadu? Zanzabar? Just "curious"


Despite the fact you could have simply gone back a message or two, I'm happy to oblige - here's Stabbim's quote:

"Sure, go nuts. This is all idle chat anyway, one topic's about as meaningful as another. But there's no point in being surprised &/or offended that some folks who've had their fill of "woulda coulda shoulda" over the past decade or so choose to roll their eyes when it comes to infest yet another thread."

Now - about the word "Sanctimony" - I'm afraid you may wish to reconsider your interpretation of the definition, which is as follows:

"Feigned piety or righteousness; hypocritical devoutness or high-mindedness."

Now, you may not AGREE with my assessment of Stabbim's choice of words - but my use of the word in this context is appropriate in this context.

By the way, in all seriousness, your baby is BEAUTIFUL. Congratulations.

[StyxCollector]

Excuse me, Kip, is it? Would you mind directly quoting Stabbim's disheartening comments here? I went back and read this entire thread, and I didn't see what you were talking about - or any example of rudeness from him.

He didn't say any individuals were infesting message boards (even though we all know there are some who do, don't we?). He said not to be surprised when dertain (same repeating) topics come to infest a thread. If you're that sensitive to all this, I suggest throwing on a coat to make up for the thin skin. No one is attacking anyone here.

Further, could you also maybe look up the word sanctimony? Because the ultimate definition has nothing to do with what you are saying. Thanks in advance.

We all know every thread becomes a Styx vs. DDY or JY vs. DDY thread at some point. This is part of the whole "woulda, shoulda, coulda" thing, too. Sometimes it's fun if it's a new angle, but I would almost bet that there are very few angles not covered at this point except maybe boxers vs. briefs. Now, to some degree it's relevant here because TS does address the Dennis situation and a possible reunion scenario, but I think it's time for Zan to bring out the dead horse graphic.

People have to learn to have a thick skin because you could get eaten alive around here. We all have opinions, and throwing up a thin defense won't cut it. We've seen the likes of thin skinned folks come and go around here. None of us are being holier-than-thou hypocrites or rude.

Recently, someone on another board called me foul mouthed when I never even typed a curse word. It was amusing. This seems to be the same thing.

[styxfanNH]

what's that short for? Suzanne? Xanadu? Zanzabar? Just "curious"


Despite the fact you could have simply gone back a message or two, I'm happy to oblige - here's Stabbim's quote:

"Sure, go nuts. This is all idle chat anyway, one topic's about as meaningful as another. But there's no point in being surprised &/or offended that some folks who've had their fill of "woulda coulda shoulda" over the past decade or so choose to roll their eyes when it comes to infest yet another thread."

Now - about the word "Sanctimony" - I'm afraid you may wish to reconsider your interpretation of the definition, which is as follows:

"Feigned piety or righteousness; hypocritical devoutness or high-mindedness."

Now, you may not AGREE with my assessment of Stabbim's choice of words - but my use of the word in this context is appropriate in this context.

By the way, in all seriousness, your baby is BEAUTIFUL. Congratulations.

31 posts in and we are being told how this BB should go about it's business.

kipthekid
Still Green

Joined: 13 Jul 2007
Posts: 31

And what does it matter what Zan stands for??? Everyone knows it stands for "Queen"

[kipthekid]

"Zan" trotting out a "dead horse" caricature is EXACTLY the kind of thing I'm talking about. You don't like the conversation about the past - even though that's what Styx ultimately is about - fine, don't respond or take part. What you referred to is absolutely an example of being "sanctimonious."

We have few choices when it comes to Styx conversation - the past or whether Styx and/or Dennis are going to be performing at the next "game feed" or local "Tractor Pull"