DDY Keswick Theater Show

[Monker]

Give him credit, DDY never wanted to water down the brand. He never saw Styx taking anything but a headline slot and he stuck to his guns. He would rather Styx not tour than do a package tours where you either split the headline role or God forbid, be an opening act (as was the case during the Journey tour.)

LOL...have to laugh at this since everything I read said the second slot was the best slot of Main Event...not a full crowd during the first act...and a band playing way too late and exhausted on the third slot.

It also wasn't "Journey's tour"...that's another one of your lies.

Styx essentially stole the show on that tour - it was an extremely good move for them to make. Journey may have been the inferred "headliner" because they negotiated to always close the show. But, it was three headlining bands...and there was no "opening band" with a short set. in fact, I believe Neal said he would never do this type of tour again because of how exhausting it was.

I remember some interviews with him when the new lineup was opening up in which he specifically stated that the bands Styx was opening up for would have been opening up for them back in the day. He knew branding and felt that there was an air of specialness that you needed to create.

Yeah, that was back when all his interviews made him sound extremely jealous and full of being a victim because he lost control over "his" band, that "he" founded, that "he" wrote all the songs for, that "he" produced and was responsible for the sound. So, it's not surprising at all the "he" was better at managing the band, too.

He also would never have released all the various live and greatest hits manifestations.

Of course not...because DDY is not a record company and couldn't release them. Styx isn't either so they didn't release them either.

Recall, he didn't even wanted to release GH2 as he felt it was watering down the brand since, let's face it, Styx doesn't have 2 CDs worth of greatest hits. I can count on one hand the number of songs of GH2 that were actual "hits".

Yep...but his god-like power over Styx could not stop a label from releasing an album. Shocking. Well, not really since he's just a singer/songwriter/keyboardist.

From DDY's perspective, incessant touring and compilations/live albums over-saturated the market with Styx product. It made it less special. Its actually very smart business sense, but it takes tons of discipline. Other members of the band and that money grubber Charlie Bruscoe didn't understand the strategy or valued short term monetary gains more than longer term brand building. Happens in corporations all the time...

For a band like Styx, it means nothing. Especially when the royalties for album sales go to DDY anyway. Maybe management promoted the idea, but the label released the album - NOT STYX.

[Toph]

Give him credit, DDY never wanted to water down the brand. He never saw Styx taking anything but a headline slot and he stuck to his guns. He would rather Styx not tour than do a package tours where you either split the headline role or God forbid, be an opening act (as was the case during the Journey tour.)

LOL...have to laugh at this since everything I read said the second slot was the best slot of Main Event...not a full crowd during the first act...and a band playing way too late and exhausted on the third slot.

It also wasn't "Journey's tour"...that's another one of your lies.

Styx essentially stole the show on that tour - it was an extremely good move for them to make. Journey may have been the inferred "headliner" because they negotiated to always close the show. But, it was three headlining bands...and there was no "opening band" with a short set. in fact, I believe Neal said he would never do this type of tour again because of how exhausting it was.

I remember some interviews with him when the new lineup was opening up in which he specifically stated that the bands Styx was opening up for would have been opening up for them back in the day. He knew branding and felt that there was an air of specialness that you needed to create.

Yeah, that was back when all his interviews made him sound extremely jealous and full of being a victim because he lost control over "his" band, that "he" founded, that "he" wrote all the songs for, that "he" produced and was responsible for the sound. So, it's not surprising at all the "he" was better at managing the band, too.

He also would never have released all the various live and greatest hits manifestations.

Of course not...because DDY is not a record company and couldn't release them. Styx isn't either so they didn't release them either.

Recall, he didn't even wanted to release GH2 as he felt it was watering down the brand since, let's face it, Styx doesn't have 2 CDs worth of greatest hits. I can count on one hand the number of songs of GH2 that were actual "hits".

Yep...but his god-like power over Styx could not stop a label from releasing an album. Shocking. Well, not really since he's just a singer/songwriter/keyboardist.

From DDY's perspective, incessant touring and compilations/live albums over-saturated the market with Styx product. It made it less special. Its actually very smart business sense, but it takes tons of discipline. Other members of the band and that money grubber Charlie Bruscoe didn't understand the strategy or valued short term monetary gains more than longer term brand building. Happens in corporations all the time...

For a band like Styx, it means nothing. Especially when the royalties for album sales go to DDY anyway. Maybe management promoted the idea, but the label released the album - NOT STYX.

You really need to stop posting because every time you do, you look like a bigger damn fool.

Here are the facts:
1. Styx has NOT been a headliner since 1997. They have either shared that role or shared the opening act slot for Journey.
2. Again you are replacing facts with your opinions on who was the best on that Journey tour. It was clear from the start that Journey was the headliner. Styx got the second slot half the time and the opening slot he other half of the time. While you as the bathwater drinking Styx fan believe that Styx stole the show there are many people who disagree with you and believe Journey did.
3. On the hits and compilations, prior to GH2, Styx had to approve any release with their name on it from A&M. Tommy and JY wanted to release GH2 and outvoted DDY. Then after DDY was ousted from the band, they gave permission and actively encouraged all record companies to release as many compilations as possible - that is why you have a number of these from 1998 onward. DDY out of the band and two folks that don't understand branding in charge.

Let me give you some advise monkey boy. Better to keep your mouth shut and let everyone think you're an idiot, then open it and prove it.

[Monker]

Let's keep this simple for your puny brain:

You said:
[quote}He also would never have released all the various live and greatest hits manifestations.[/quote]

I replied:

Of course not...because DDY is not a record company and couldn't release them. Styx isn't either so they didn't release them either.

You NOW say:

Then after DDY was ousted from the band, they gave permission and actively encouraged all record companies to release as many compilations as possible

CORRECT - the LABEL releases the album, not the band. I accept your apology.

And, again I will say - with all of his power and control, DDY STILL could not stop the release of a compilation.

Now, your latest bullshit...even if all you say is true, he STILL could not stop ANY compilation being released prior to GH2 because THE VOTE WOULD STILL BE THE SAME. YOUR argument makes absolutely NO SENSE.

LABELS release albums. NOT the band. Maybe management is going about encouraging compilations, I really don't care. But, if "Styx: Rockers" was proposed in 1982...the vote in the band would have been NO DIFFERENT than for GH2.

Get over yourself already.

The "Main Event" was a THREE headliner tour. They all had the same amount of time on stage. None of them were emphasized more than the other. The ONLY difference is Journey negotiated the closing spot for every show. All of your LIES to rewrite history and say there were two opening bands is not going to fly.

Yeah, it's my opinion that Styx stole the show. I can't tell you how many times on Journey old BackTalk forum that people posted that Journey looked tired and just wanted to get through the night...but Styx was energetic, fun, played songs off their album (which Journey barely did)...and their sound mix was fantastic compared to REO and Journey...and geez, could Kevin Cronin shut up and play some music?

Yeah, some people would prefer Journey, or even REO...I'm not denying that...but, when that tour ended Styx came out of it better off than they were before. REO and Journey did not really do that.

Let me give you some advise monkey boy. Better to keep your mouth shut and let everyone think you're an idiot, then open it and prove it.

Yeah, right. You go about on a rant full of lies and misinformation and all you can do is reply by contradicting your prior post, give "info" that makes no logical sense, and insist I needed an "IMO" You're like all superior and stuff. I'm like in awe of your abilities. It's like aliens abducted you, saw you didn't have a brain, and gave you froy's.

[Boomchild]

PinkFloyd dude is telling people what is right/wrong to post. All I did was restate what was posted.

EXACTLY. YOUR FIRST POST brought in arguments from other threads. It wasn't Toph, it wasn't me, it wasn't anybody else, it was YOU.

Your own post disagrees with you. Reread the words I quoted.

LOL...so what? I said that almost 10yrs ago. Get over it, or lurk, or leave the forum...as many others have.

Nice to see you like to deflect away from your own response. As I said the comments I made was just me posting my thoughts on conversations here after being at a current DDY show. It was not just to continue an argument. Well good for you that that you stated the same thing ten years ago. Sorry but I ran out of those little star stickers or I would send one to you. BTW, I don't need you to tell me to do anything.

[Baron Von Bielski]

Everything always turns into an argument around here. I mean, I could not visit this site for a month and when I finally do it's the same old arguments about pretty much the same thing by the same people. Who cares how many people see these shows, if you enjoyed it... then that's all that matters. Everyone knows I'd prefer Dennis back in Styx, but I still went and saw Styx early this year and it was a good show. Tommy carries the show... he still is truly awesome. He has an amazing voice and he's lost nothing all these years. I feel thew same about Dennis, even more so. He is gifted. It's crazy that he can still sing the way he does in his mid 60's. He sounds the same as he did in the 70's. Each band has a member that's fucking awesome, now if only the River Styx would freeze.

[Toph]

Monkeyboy

Maybe its time for you to go back to elementary school and learn to read for comprehension, dumb ass.

If you could read for understanding, you would understand that, as I said, Styx had the ultimate power over A&M to give permission for any and all releases. DDY was very strict on now letting A&M get access to their material to release on a number of compilations. When HE WAS KICKED OUT, Tommy and JY gave A&M back that power and also gave the same rights to Sancturary/CMC. As a result, we now have 350 different compilations and live albums. References for this are Sterling's book and numerous DDY interviews during that time period if you want confirmation. So, now, what part of that do you not understand?

Do I know why JY and TS changed their tune on releasing compilations? I have no idea, but in 1982 "Rockers" would never have been released. Why? because they had a philosophy at the time that they would not give the record company permission to release Styx product in order to keep it special and not flood the marketplace. And that was a good strategy. Stuff like "Rockers" was a joke release to begin with and was released solely with the idea of sticking it to DDY and telling the world that Styx was "ready to rock"

The main event tour was a Journey headline tour. Go back and look at the articles around that tour and also go back and look at how was promoted. I know being a fan of the current lineup, you are into revisionist history, but the facts are the facts. Journey was the headliner. REO and Styx were the support acts. It was the "Main Event" tour, but it was clear that Journey was the headliner. As far as results and who came out better, interesting you say that, because out of the three bands, only one (not named Styx or REO) had any success after that tour in album sales. Journey Revelation spawned a major hit record with After All These Years, was a platinum seller, and went to the Billboard Top 10. How'd Styx do again? How many gold and platinum records have they had since DDY was kicked out? Yeah, that tour really put them on the map.....

Stop twisting facts to suit your narrative.

[yogi]

Styx WAS the headliner when they toured with Bad Company(Paul Rogers on lead vocal), and Billy Squire.

It was a GREAT show that I saw twice. They had 8,000+ both times I saw them in San Antonio(Selma) and Houston.

I believe this tour was somewhere around 2004- 2006. Cant remember when but the shows were GREAT, they did EXTREMELY well and Styx WAS the headliner.

They also traded headlining slots with REO for many years.

**Also without a doubt STYX stole the Main Event show. In the #2 slot most nights( sometimes they were the opening act & REO performed 2ND) they blew Journey off the stage. Saw this concert twice

[Monker]

Monkeyboy

Maybe its time for you to go back to elementary school and learn to read for comprehension, dumb ass.

If you could read for understanding, you would understand that, as I said, Styx had the ultimate power over A&M to give permission for any and all releases. DDY was very strict on now letting A&M get access to their material to release on a number of compilations. When HE WAS KICKED OUT, Tommy and JY gave A&M back that power and also gave the same rights to Sancturary/CMC. As a result, we now have 350 different compilations and live albums. References for this are Sterling's book and numerous DDY interviews during that time period if you want confirmation. So, now, what part of that do you not understand?

How about the part where Tommy and JY voted to release GH2, which Dennis did not want released? This in itself means that Dennis was not this all powerful god of releases which you describe above...it was NOT DDY who was "very strict" is was Styx. Whether DDY is in the band or not is MEANINGLESS because it comes down to a vote. My reference to this is YOU, "Tommy and JY wanted to release GH2 and outvoted DDY."

Do I know why JY and TS changed their tune on releasing compilations? I have no idea, but in 1982 "Rockers" would never have been released. Why? because they had a philosophy at the time that they would not give the record company permission to release Styx product in order to keep it special and not flood the marketplace. And that was a good strategy. Stuff like "Rockers" was a joke release to begin with and was released solely with the idea of sticking it to DDY and telling the world that Styx was "ready to rock"

Talk about somebody injecting their opinion into posts and believing it to be fact. I have never seen ANYTHING to lead me to believe ANY of the releases since BNW were meant to "stick it to DDY".

IMO, they (Styx) left it up to management to decide what compilations and live albums to release. Journey released a ballads album years ago...did they do that to "stick it to" Gregg Rolie? What a lame ass remark by you.

The main event tour was a Journey headline tour.

'
And, that is a lie.

Go back and look at the articles around that tour and also go back and look at how was promoted. I know being a fan of the current lineup, you are into revisionist history, but the facts are the facts.

Oh, please...now you are making shit up and don't even know what you are talking about. I'm more of a Journey fan of that era than anything else...if I felt Journey was headlining and kicking ass during that tour, I would post it. That FACT is the Main Event was three bands sharing a headlining set of 90mins each...not two opening bands getting 60mins each and Journey getting 90mins or more. The fact is that it burned out Neal so much that he said he would never agree to that type of tour again...and hasn't. Journey negotiated the closing act to make it APPEAR they were headlining - but they weren't.

As far as results and who came out better, interesting you say that, because out of the three bands, only one (not named Styx or REO) had any success after that tour in album sales. Journey Revelation spawned a major hit record with After All These Years, was a platinum seller, and went to the Billboard Top 10. How'd Styx do again? How many gold and platinum records have they had since DDY was kicked out? Yeah, that tour really put them on the map.....

Holy crap...you are an idiot. Journey with Augeri and Journey with Arnel are two separate things. The success with Revelation had NOTHING to do with the Main Event tour...that's crazy, made up, bullshit by you. Tell me how well Generations did...I believe THAT was the next full Journey album after Main Event.

Yeah, after Main Event I critiqued Styx for not taking more advantage of it. But, the FACT is they released BBT and then CYO, had radio success with "I Am the Walrus" on radio...which I heard several times.

Also, they used Main Event to promote Cyclorama by performing a few of those songs...and kept playing "One With Everything" for years after. Neither REO nor Journey used Main Event to promote ANY new music.

Finally, I don't think I even used the word "success"... I didn't mention albums or singles. Main Event helped establish them as a touring band...because they absolutely delivered on that tour. Everybody who saw it, knows it.

[Monker]

PinkFloyd dude is telling people what is right/wrong to post. All I did was restate what was posted.

EXACTLY. YOUR FIRST POST brought in arguments from other threads. It wasn't Toph, it wasn't me, it wasn't anybody else, it was YOU.

Your own post disagrees with you. Reread the words I quoted.

LOL...so what? I said that almost 10yrs ago. Get over it, or lurk, or leave the forum...as many others have.

Nice to see you like to deflect away from your own response. As I said the comments I made was just me posting my thoughts on conversations here after being at a current DDY show. It was not just to continue an argument. Well good for you that that you stated the same thing ten years ago. Sorry but I ran out of those little star stickers or I would send one to you. BTW, I don't need you to tell me to do anything.

Correct, you were posting your thoughts about conversations here. In other words, commenting about other threads and continuing those arguments. I accept your appology.

Point is: I was complaining about hijacked threads when you were either a newbie or not even here. This is nothing new.

I'm not telling you what to do. I'm giving you your options: Get over it, lurk, or leave the forum. If you can give another option, I'm sure PinkFloyd dude and others may want to hear it. I guess you can continue to complain and whine like a little baby, too.

[Toph]

Monkeyboy

Maybe its time for you to go back to elementary school and learn to read for comprehension, dumb ass.

If you could read for understanding, you would understand that, as I said, Styx had the ultimate power over A&M to give permission for any and all releases. DDY was very strict on now letting A&M get access to their material to release on a number of compilations. When HE WAS KICKED OUT, Tommy and JY gave A&M back that power and also gave the same rights to Sancturary/CMC. As a result, we now have 350 different compilations and live albums. References for this are Sterling's book and numerous DDY interviews during that time period if you want confirmation. So, now, what part of that do you not understand?

How about the part where Tommy and JY voted to release GH2, which Dennis did not want released? This in itself means that Dennis was not this all powerful god of releases which you describe above...it was NOT DDY who was "very strict" is was Styx. Whether DDY is in the band or not is MEANINGLESS because it comes down to a vote. My reference to this is YOU, "Tommy and JY wanted to release GH2 and outvoted DDY."

Do I know why JY and TS changed their tune on releasing compilations? I have no idea, but in 1982 "Rockers" would never have been released. Why? because they had a philosophy at the time that they would not give the record company permission to release Styx product in order to keep it special and not flood the marketplace. And that was a good strategy. Stuff like "Rockers" was a joke release to begin with and was released solely with the idea of sticking it to DDY and telling the world that Styx was "ready to rock"

Talk about somebody injecting their opinion into posts and believing it to be fact. I have never seen ANYTHING to lead me to believe ANY of the releases since BNW were meant to "stick it to DDY".

IMO, they (Styx) left it up to management to decide what compilations and live albums to release. Journey released a ballads album years ago...did they do that to "stick it to" Gregg Rolie? What a lame ass remark by you.

The main event tour was a Journey headline tour.

'
And, that is a lie.

Go back and look at the articles around that tour and also go back and look at how was promoted. I know being a fan of the current lineup, you are into revisionist history, but the facts are the facts.

Oh, please...now you are making shit up and don't even know what you are talking about. I'm more of a Journey fan of that era than anything else...if I felt Journey was headlining and kicking ass during that tour, I would post it. That FACT is the Main Event was three bands sharing a headlining set of 90mins each...not two opening bands getting 60mins each and Journey getting 90mins or more. The fact is that it burned out Neal so much that he said he would never agree to that type of tour again...and hasn't. Journey negotiated the closing act to make it APPEAR they were headlining - but they weren't.

As far as results and who came out better, interesting you say that, because out of the three bands, only one (not named Styx or REO) had any success after that tour in album sales. Journey Revelation spawned a major hit record with After All These Years, was a platinum seller, and went to the Billboard Top 10. How'd Styx do again? How many gold and platinum records have they had since DDY was kicked out? Yeah, that tour really put them on the map.....

Holy crap...you are an idiot. Journey with Augeri and Journey with Arnel are two separate things. The success with Revelation had NOTHING to do with the Main Event tour...that's crazy, made up, bullshit by you. Tell me how well Generations did...I believe THAT was the next full Journey album after Main Event.

Yeah, after Main Event I critiqued Styx for not taking more advantage of it. But, the FACT is they released BBT and then CYO, had radio success with "I Am the Walrus" on radio...which I heard several times.

Also, they used Main Event to promote Cyclorama by performing a few of those songs...and kept playing "One With Everything" for years after. Neither REO nor Journey used Main Event to promote ANY new music.

Finally, I don't think I even used the word "success"... I didn't mention albums or singles. Main Event helped establish them as a touring band...because they absolutely delivered on that tour. Everybody who saw it, knows it.

Hey Fucktard- you are clueless. Journey has blown Styx away in success post Perry and post DDY. Its a fact. Styx has not had one success to speak of. CYCLORAMA was a complete and utter failure. Period. It sold maybe what 30,000 copies?

And you know I am right about the whole DDY and compilation thing - I will be happy to show you interviews with him that indicate as such. You are either such a dumb ass or so blinded by your undying loyalty to Tommy Shaw that you can't see reality.

I'm done arguing with you on this. The fact of the matter was JOURNEY WAS THE HEADLINER ON THAT TOUR. You even say so. "Journey negotiated the closing act to make it APPEAR they were headlining - but they weren't" - Yes, they were. From any fan's perspective - Journey was the headline act. Go to this site moron. http://bravewords.com/news/journey-comp ... s-revealed and scroll down to the third picture. That is the picture of the marketing material for the tour. I rest my case.

[Monker]

Hey Fucktard- you are clueless.

Ah, little Tophy can say the "F" word. I'm like all impressed and scared and stuff like that.

Journey has blown Styx away in success post Perry and post DDY. Its a fact.

Explain how the success of Revelation or ANYTHING else from the time Arnel joined the band has ANYTHING to do with the Main Event...which is the comparison YOU MADE.

I did NOT make this comparison. I am saying Styx doing the Main Event tour was a GOOD thing for them. THEY PROVED they could hold their own with Journey...and in fact could upstage them for some JOURNEY fans.

Styx has not had one success to speak of. CYCLORAMA was a complete and utter failure. Period. It sold maybe what 30,000 copies?

Oh, blah, blah, blah. You are arguing with yourself on this one. I did not say they had some huge platinum album or charting single. In fact I repeated what I said back then that Styx could have done more to take advantage of the Main Event tour. The fact ALSO is that BBT had a single on the radio and a video on VH1. They also had the CYO released and shown on various satelite channels. And, finally, the FACT is also that Journey's next release, Generations, was absolutely horrid. If you add it up, I bet Journey sold less new albums of new recordings than Styx did up until a singer change and Revelation was released years and years later.

And you know I am right about the whole DDY and compilation thing

Oh, you're right NOW because you are NOW saying labels release albums. In your original post you said DDY released albums - which is NOT TRUE.

The fact of the matter was JOURNEY WAS THE HEADLINER ON THAT TOUR. You even say so. "Journey negotiated the closing act to make it APPEAR they were headlining - but they weren't" - Yes, they were. From any fan's perspective - Journey was the headline act. Go to this site moron. http://bravewords.com/news/journey-comp ... s-revealed and scroll down to the third picture. That is the picture of the marketing material for the tour. I rest my case.

LOL, LOL, LOL....You are absolutely WRONG. Foreigner was not part of the MAIN EVENT tour. That tour was Journey, REO and Styx over 10yrs ago. This tour was just three years ago! THANK YOU for that good laugh at your expense. God, that was hilarious. You have NO CLUE what you are even talking about.

For those who know what tour we were supposed to be talking about:

[Toph]

You are missing the big picture here and trying to twist my words. So hoping that the 3rd or 4th time is the charm, I'll try to explain my point to your feeble mind.

The big point here is that since DDY was kicked out, styx has done irreparable harm to their brand by an over saturation, thereby eliminating any specialness the band had. Now they are a run of the mill oldies act trying to relive their glory days. Here is proof of that:

1. Incessant touring and taking any gig they can get - this band has not been a headliner OF A MAJOR SUMMER by themselves since DDY left. They are either co headlining or are the support/opening act. THANK YOU for proving that Styx was an opening act twice with Journey. On your little picture who is listed first? The headliner. Who is listed last? The support act. DDY said had it been up to him, Styx would never play the role of an opening band. ever.

2. Giving Approval and in many cases (rockers) directing the record company to put out as much styx compilations and live bums as possible. I never said DDY releases the records. You twisted my words. I did say that unlike many bands, Styx had control over their catalog while DDY was in the band. That's why there are limited Styx compilations pre DDY ouster. TS and JY decides at some point to put as much product out there and gave the record company their approval and helped create a number of these compilations and live albums

3. I didn't say this, but will now add all the extra products - the coffee, the jewelry, the metal looking T shirts...all are off brand. They are only about the almighty dollar and will bastardize their name to earn just a few more bucks.

If you can't understand this, then I'm sorry you have a lack of mental capacity to do so.

[Toph]

Another example of the diminishment of Styx brand value.

On July 17, the Styx, Foreigner, and Felder tour played the Target Center in Minneapolis. Yes, that Target Center. Capacity 18000+. Of course it was a reconfigured Target center and capacity was listed at 6400. Well 6400 is still better than most places they've gone to...and guess what, they filled it! Ok, now we're talking....oh wait, over 4,000 of those seats were sold at the huge ticket price of $13.75. Yes, $13.75.....the last concert I paid 13.75 to go to was in 1982.

[pinkfloyd1973]

Excuse me but just who are you to determine what is a correct or wrong posting here?

PinkFloyd dude is telling people what is right/wrong to post. All I did was restate what was posted.

My comments quoted above were thoughts I had after going to see DDY and the recent discussions here.

EXACTLY. YOUR FIRST POST brought in arguments from other threads. It wasn't Toph, it wasn't me, it wasn't anybody else, it was YOU.

If you don't agree with my viewpoints that's just fine and dandy. But it no way was it just to continue some "argument".

Your own post disagrees with you. Reread the words I quoted.

The fact of the matter is that 99.9% of the time anything posted in this forum regardless of the topic or whether it is positive or negative about DDY or the the current Styx gets derailed. So the topic or content of a thread here really doesn't matter.

LOL...so what? I said that almost 10yrs ago. Get over it, or lurk, or leave the forum...as many others have.[/quote]



1) I am a female
2) Seeing that there will be no immediate end to the stupid ass arguments going on, I will remain no part of it and will just lurk until there is an actual intelligent discussion.
3) I don't dictate what gets posted here, that would be Andrew and any other moderator here.

[Boomchild]

Correct, you were posting your thoughts about conversations here. In other words, commenting about other threads and continuing those arguments. I accept your appology.

Don't seem to see where there is an apology from me here. But, if that makes you feel better that's OK.

Point is: I was complaining about hijacked threads when you were either a newbie or not even here. This is nothing new.

Well aren't you special! Please submit your address so I can send you some gold star stickers. Wait, better yet I'll ask Andrew to post an acknowledgment to this fact on the header for this forum.

I'm not telling you what to do. I'm giving you your options: Get over it, lurk, or leave the forum. If you can give another option, I'm sure PinkFloyd dude and others may want to hear it. I guess you can continue to complain and whine like a little baby, too.

Why sure you are. You just don't have the balls to admit it (there's an option for you). Just like you pushed the blame off on PF for your comments. BTW, if I would even want you to give me options I'll ask you for them.

[Boomchild]

Another example of the diminishment of Styx brand value.

On July 17, the Styx, Foreigner, and Felder tour played the Target Center in Minneapolis. Yes, that Target Center. Capacity 18000+. Of course it was a reconfigured Target center and capacity was listed at 6400. Well 6400 is still better than most places they've gone to...and guess what, they filled it! Ok, now we're talking....oh wait, over 4,000 of those seats were sold at the huge ticket price of $13.75. Yes, $13.75.....the last concert I paid 13.75 to go to was in 1982.

Actually, maybe the low ball ticket price should go to DDY. The ticket price for his show at the El Ray Theater was $5.00. This was the show recorded for AXS and forthcoming DVD release.

[Monker]

1) I am a female

Dude, I know that...you said that last time. Well, at least I take your word for it. It's not like I've seen any naked pics of you to prove it.

2) Seeing that there will be no immediate end to the stupid ass arguments going on, I will remain no part of it and will just lurk until there is an actual intelligent discussion.

That's one of the options...thank you for your participation in my survey.

3) I don't dictate what gets posted here, that would be Andrew and any other moderator here.

Yep, Andrew is such a dicator, LOL. (Just teasing, Andrew...no need to make a power display...not telling you how to run your forum or anything.)

I know you're not trying to "dictate" what is posted here. You are complaining about it and displaying the consequences...and maybe, MAYBE, hoping people will change their behavior.

[Monker]

You are missing the big picture here and trying to twist my words. So hoping that the 3rd or 4th time is the charm, I'll try to explain my point to your feeble mind.

The big point here is that since DDY was kicked out, styx has done irreparable harm to their brand by an over saturation, thereby eliminating any specialness the band had. Now they are a run of the mill oldies act trying to relive their glory days. Here is proof of that:

Blah, blah, blah. The only 'irreparable harm' is they have proven they do not need Dennis to be in the band. Nobody really cares about all of this crap you are posting. Styx will continue what they do regardless of rants of people like you.

Now, on to your lies and stupidity.

1. Incessant touring and taking any gig they can get - this band has not been a headliner OF A MAJOR SUMMER by themselves since DDY left.

WRONG. As Yogi posted, they headlined on the tour with Bad Company and Billy Squier.

THANK YOU for proving that Styx was an opening act twice with Journey. On your little picture who is listed first? The headliner. Who is listed last? The support act. DDY said had it been up to him, Styx would never play the role of an opening band. ever.

You are an idiot. You obviously have NO CLUE about the Main Event tour. You are so ignorant you did a Google search and FOUND THE WRONG TOUR and went on your usual rant and made a complete ass out of yourself. There is no need to even argue with you about this because YOU have proven your ignorance.

[qyuote]Inever said DDY releases the records. You twisted my words.[/quote]

Another LIE. I quoted you saying this MULTIPLE times in this thread. You said it, I quoted and specifically replied that neither DDY nor Styx releases albums - the LABEL does. Then, of course, you go and rant about all of this other stuff, trying to bury the FACT that you screwed up yet again.

3. I didn't say this, but will now add all the extra products - the coffee, the jewelry, the metal looking T shirts...all are off brand. They are only about the almighty dollar and will bastardize their name to earn just a few more bucks.

So what? I really don't care. You use Journey as a comparison. Well, substitute wine for coffee and you may as well be talking about Journey.

The bottom line is you are just a disgruntled Styx fan who hates the fact that DDY was fired. You can't get over it. So, you live your life ranting on Styx forums to vent your frustration.

You need some serious therapy.

[masque]

Excuse me but just who are you to determine what is a correct or wrong posting here?

PinkFloyd dude is telling people what is right/wrong to post. All I did was restate what was posted.

My comments quoted above were thoughts I had after going to see DDY and the recent discussions here.

EXACTLY. YOUR FIRST POST brought in arguments from other threads. It wasn't Toph, it wasn't me, it wasn't anybody else, it was YOU.

If you don't agree with my viewpoints that's just fine and dandy. But it no way was it just to continue some "argument".

Your own post disagrees with you. Reread the words I quoted.

The fact of the matter is that 99.9% of the time anything posted in this forum regardless of the topic or whether it is positive or negative about DDY or the the current Styx gets derailed. So the topic or content of a thread here really doesn't matter.

LOL...so what? I said that almost 10yrs ago. Get over it, or lurk, or leave the forum...as many others have.

1) I am a female
2) Seeing that there will be no immediate end to the stupid ass arguments going on, I will remain no part of it and will just lurk until there is an actual intelligent discussion.
3) I don't dictate what gets posted here, that would be Andrew and any other moderator here. [/quote]

if you are looking for a non argument thread you can check out the "dennis & tommy switcharoo" thread.

[masque]

i saw styx around 2001 or so and they were headlining a tour with pat benetar opening as well.

as for slots on a tour, i think we all need to remember that artists ability to fill seats change.

ted nugent was literally one of the biggest selling artists and WAS the biggest touring act in america for a few years in the 70's and now he absolutely functions 100% as an opening act on all tours he participates in. ted has not changed his brand...in fact, he is more known for his brand now than ever....yet his popularity has plummeted.

kansas was headlining enormo-domes for several years and there is no way they headline any tour now and they havnt for decades.....yet they did nothing I am aware of to ruin their brand.

same thing for REO......sold out arenas everywhere for years and now are a co-headliner with styx or an opening act on many tours.

same thing for acts like cheap trick, foreigner and most times boston....although boston is currently going thru a bit of popularity resurgence. but prior to this up tick in popularity they have co-headlined with styx and didnt really carry any significant tours on their own.

even mega bands like kiss & def leppard are co-headlining tours to ensure ticket sales.

the point is that nearly all of these bands have suffered declining popularity and ticket sales for decades......they all used to be able to sell 10,000 tickets per night on their own and now they likely couldnt do it with a package tour of 3 of them together.

even though journey is more popular today than the ones mentioned above they still are touring with steve miller this summer.......so theres two acts that used to be able to fill an arena on their own now sharing a bill together.

what's the point of all this arguing? NONE of these bands can draw them in like they used to.....even is styx had ddy back in the band and had not committed "career suicide" like toph believes they have for a decade they still would have to tour in a package deal to play the summer sheds......but the only band they would be on equal ground with is journey......they are really the only one they could reach......kiss and def leppard are still too far above them in current popularity to catch back up......so ddy being back MIGHT ensure that they for sure get higher billing than foreigner or reo and the others mentioned but outside of that they would get nothing.....so why is it such a huge deal?

[Monker]

even though journey is more popular today than the ones mentioned above they still are touring with steve miller this summer.......so theres two acts that used to be able to fill an arena on their own now sharing a bill together.

And, on Journey's last tour with Steve Augeri, they OPENED for Def Leppard. At that point, they were no better off than Styx were...But, "Don't Stop Believin'" took off in various ways...they fired two singers and got a Perry clone, released a new album and tied it to a rerecording of the GH, and had a platinum album and a resurgence in their popularity. If Styx had done this, Toph and others would have blasted them for living off of DDY's voice and hits...and they would have been right.

Nowadays they blast them for ignoring DDY and the hits.

It doesn't matter what Styx does, there will be the same disgruntled fans critiquing their every move. So, Styx may as well do what THEY want to do and be happy and ignore the Toph's of the world as being the insignificant gnats that they are.

what's the point of all this arguing? NONE of these bands can draw them in like they used to.....even is styx had ddy back in the band and had not committed "career suicide" like toph believes they have for a decade they still would have to tour in a package deal to play the summer sheds......but the only band they would be on equal ground with is journey......they are really the only one they could reach......kiss and def leppard are still too far above them in current popularity to catch back up......so ddy being back MIGHT ensure that they for sure get higher billing than foreigner or reo and the others mentioned but outside of that they would get nothing.....so why is it such a huge deal?

And, after one tour with DDY, the nostalgia would wear off and they would quickly dip down to where they are now...assuming there would be another tour, which I doubt.

[Boomchild]

if you are looking for a non argument thread you can check out the "dennis & tommy switcharoo" thread.

At least for now. Give it time.

[Toph]

You are missing the big picture here and trying to twist my words. So hoping that the 3rd or 4th time is the charm, I'll try to explain my point to your feeble mind.

The big point here is that since DDY was kicked out, styx has done irreparable harm to their brand by an over saturation, thereby eliminating any specialness the band had. Now they are a run of the mill oldies act trying to relive their glory days. Here is proof of that:

Blah, blah, blah. The only 'irreparable harm' is they have proven they do not need Dennis to be in the band. Nobody really cares about all of this crap you are posting. Styx will continue what they do regardless of rants of people like you.

Now, on to your lies and stupidity.

1. Incessant touring and taking any gig they can get - this band has not been a headliner OF A MAJOR SUMMER by themselves since DDY left.

WRONG. As Yogi posted, they headlined on the tour with Bad Company and Billy Squier.

THANK YOU for proving that Styx was an opening act twice with Journey. On your little picture who is listed first? The headliner. Who is listed last? The support act. DDY said had it been up to him, Styx would never play the role of an opening band. ever.

You are an idiot. You obviously have NO CLUE about the Main Event tour. You are so ignorant you did a Google search and FOUND THE WRONG TOUR and went on your usual rant and made a complete ass out of yourself. There is no need to even argue with you about this because YOU have proven your ignorance.

[qyuote]Inever said DDY releases the records. You twisted my words.

Another LIE. I quoted you saying this MULTIPLE times in this thread. You said it, I quoted and specifically replied that neither DDY nor Styx releases albums - the LABEL does. Then, of course, you go and rant about all of this other stuff, trying to bury the FACT that you screwed up yet again.

3. I didn't say this, but will now add all the extra products - the coffee, the jewelry, the metal looking T shirts...all are off brand. They are only about the almighty dollar and will bastardize their name to earn just a few more bucks.

So what? I really don't care. You use Journey as a comparison. Well, substitute wine for coffee and you may as well be talking about Journey.

The bottom line is you are just a disgruntled Styx fan who hates the fact that DDY was fired. You can't get over it. So, you live your life ranting on Styx forums to vent your frustration.

You need some serious therapy.[/quote]

Thanks I'll get right on that therapy.

Facts
1. Bad Company was a shares headline tour.
2. You don't have an argument so you resort to either saying "who cares" or twisting my words and claiming that I "lie" when in fact you have been telling. A number of whoppers.
3. The fact of the matter is this band has not headlined by themselves a ampitheater tour since DeYoung was kicked out.
4. The other fact of the matter is despite all the claims by JY and Tommy that this is the best band ever and that they will have heir Santana moment, they have not had a sniff of national success since DDY left the band. They also have no creativity. They have not had an album of new material in over. 11 years.

[Monker]

Facts
1. Bad Company was a shares headline tour.

But, it was STILL A TOUR. And, Masque just posted about Pat Benatar. Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?

2. You don't have an argument so you resort to either saying "who cares" or twisting my words and claiming that I "lie" when in fact you have been telling. A number of whoppers.

I DON'T CARE about merchandise. That has been a part of rock since the Beatles sold dolls of themselves. Kiss had action figures. So what? All bands do this shit. Journey had incense candles, Christmas ornaments, scarab necklaces, soap. I said this same thing to whiny Journey fans - I DON'T CARE. Then they bottled their own whine, uh, I mean wine...too funny.

3. The fact of the matter is this band has not headlined by themselves a ampitheater tour since DeYoung was kicked out.

Are you a comedian? You find that you are flat out WRONG about things you post so then you change the criteria and slightly adjust your argument so you can be 'right'. You are so fun when you squirm like that.

4. The other fact of the matter is despite all the claims by JY and Tommy that this is the best band ever and that they will have heir Santana moment, they have not had a sniff of national success since DDY left the band. They also have no creativity. They have not had an album of new material in over. 11 years.

LOL. Who is arguing about that? Nobody here has mentioned the "Santana moment" in so long that it has been forgotten. We have all talked about wanting "new songs" for years and years. All Styx fans want that. But, if they release something, you' will just go about criticizing it, say this and that would be better if DDY was there, that it didn't sell enough to make you happy, and on and on. So, your thoughts and opinions on this mean absolutely NOTHING...because no matter what Styx does, they will be in the wrong.

Even if they brought DDY back, you would say they did it the wrong way. The timing was bad. If they toured right away, you would say they should have released a new album. If they released a new album, you would have said they should have toured. They didn't give DDY enough control. They gave DDY too much control.

it makes NO difference what Styx does - you will find something to bitch about. THAT is your nature.

[Toph]

And you would praise them no matter what they did. You know I'm right, you just can't deal with it.

[masque]

And you would praise them no matter what they did. You know I'm right, you just can't deal with it.

no I'm not gonna praise them no matter what they do……i could give you a laundry list of things i wish they did differently or did or didn't do.

and i can do the same for ddy……but what i choose to do is mostly ignore that which i don't prefer and just accept things for what they are and what both camps do that i wish they did differently and try to squeeze out enjoyment from what they both still do while they are still in good enough health to do it.

[yogi]

Bad Company was Not a Shared headline tour.Styx was the headliner EVERY night. They also had a longer time slot and they played about 35 minutes longer than Bad Company did.

[Monker]

And you would praise them no matter what they did. You know I'm right, you just can't deal with it.

Please scour this forum and find my "praises" for the Regeneration albums and the choice of tours since the POE/GI tours.

You are an absolute pathological liar. Prove your words and prove that I'm wrong and you are not a liar.

[Toph]

And you would praise them no matter what they did. You know I'm right, you just can't deal with it.

Please scour this forum and find my "praises" for the Regeneration albums and the choice of tours since the POE/GI tours.

You are an absolute pathological liar. Prove your words and prove that I'm wrong and you are not a liar.

You know, you're the one that continues to make false statements, yet you are the one that continues to call me a liar. A bit hypocritical don't you think?

[Toph]

Bad Company was Not a Shared headline tour.Styx was the headliner EVERY night. They also had a longer time slot and they played about 35 minutes longer than Bad Company did.

Second sentence, buddy.

http://www.mccoy.army.mil/vtriad_online ... oncert.htm

Unlike Monkeyface, I'll assume you misremembered and not resort to calling everyone liars.