MR

Do (did) you like the classic lineup more for the music or for their popularity? I'd expect the answer to be music from everyone here, but reading through several of the recent threads, the issues of album sales, airplay, crowd size, and Billboard position seem to be a factor in many of our minds. Is it that hard to either like or dislike the music of either DDY or Styx (Carrot Styx, if you prefer) without the other factors?

Is anybody seriously going to change their opinion of DDY or Styx if either party suddenly started selling multi-platinum albums or filling up stadiums? Is Larry Gowan going to sound different to anyone if Styx were to have a #1 Billboard single? Are you going to change how you feel about DDY's songwriting if he starts getting airplay on every station in the world? I seriously doubt it, so why do so many of our discussions give so much credence to these factors? Just curious.

Not sure what I'm getting at, but I guess it would be nice if an album like Big Bang Theory (or the future DDY album) could be released and we just focused on the music. If you like it, great. If not, fine. I really think we could have a great discussion about why we like or dislike the new music without having to resort back to the same tired arguments.

Just my worthless two cents

ek88 wrote:Just my worthless two cents

But more importantly:

WHAT DID YOU THINK OF REVENGE OF THE SITH???

I would prefer that MUSIC was what the audience valued. You know, the power of it, the content, the craft, etc.

However, that may be asking too much. I think human nature makes it into something else. We are, like it or not, affected by the other details...album cover, what the "buzz" is, as well as the popularity of the music. I feel like that's too bad, but ya gotta face reality.

To me, personally, I've always preferred acts that NOT SO MANY OTHERS knew about. Like I had an inside secret on something special. Give me a great, undiscovered act in a tiny room any day. But, as displayed by all the discussion here regarding sales figures, venue size and ticket numbers, it appears that the world is full of bean counters who use figures to vindicate their own opinions. I do that too sometimes.

But, for the record, the music is all that matters to me. If popularity were so important to me, I'd be posting on web boards for Justin Timberlake, Avril Lavigne, Ludacris and 50 Cent.

I think concert ticket sales, CD sales, chart rankings, etc. are simply a benchmark people use to validate the artist, not necessarily the music.

That said, it is often a poor benchmark. There are acts who sell tickets galore and sit atop the charts whose music I consider junk or worse.

So what you say, Adam, is certainly what everyone should feel, and celebrate, first and foremost.

What brought me to Styx was the voice of Dennis DeYoung and the wonderful sound it brought to the whole.

Now that it is gone from the group, while I think much of what Current Styx does is very good, and they sound fine, I personally have little interest in their music anymore. It does not make it bad or good. Just not something I want to listen to anymore.

What they do or do not sell really has no bearing on my feelings about the music -- but others do. So, if the discussion is reasonable, I will join in.

Bugsy

As for REVENGE OF THE SITH - this is actually a connected topic to me. I prefer going to see a film WITHOUT expectations and I hate having heard opinions good or bad about it. It just makes it harder to make up my own mnind (is that weird?).

Show me the piece, music, film or art, and let me react. I dislike the idea of critics and hype, although I recognize that that's the way it works.

Most people are malleable. Their decisions are often influenced by what is deemed to be popular at the time. That being said...I am shocked...an actual discussion about music...on a music board....perish the thought!
Seriously...

Since I don't own the cd, I cannot comment about Big Bang.

I also think music in general is difficult for people to seperate their emotions from. It's an art form, and any art form is designed to evoke some sort of emotional response. Once it gets that response, people tend to either gravitate to the artist and assume it is representational of who the artist really is. And then you add your own feelings about how things should be or what you believe them to be...and having a discussion about music becomes very hard.

Here's hoping we can all manage to do it though.

For what it's worth...I did enjoy the harmonies I heard on the clips from Big Bang.

For me it's the music and it is true for any band. Part of the music of Styx has always been the diversity of musical styles. It is the harmonies, It is the rhythm guitar (no not everyone has to play lead guitar). The Lead guitar. The guarantee that virtually every song is going to have this great instrumental flare into nowhere that seems to fit and be brought back into the final verse of the song. It is definitely the music.

That is what is wrong with "music' today. It's all about the sales.

What brought me to Styx was the voice of Dennis DeYoung and the wonderful sound it brought to the whole.

Now that it is gone from the group, while I think much of what Current Styx does is very good, and they sound fine, I personally have little interest in their music anymore. It does not make it bad or good. Just not something I want to listen to anymore.

Well said. You make your thoughts perfectly clear and the best part is you were able to do so without belittling or bashing any of the parties involved. Here's hoping we follow your example.

I would prefer that MUSIC was what the audience valued. You know, the power of it, the content, the craft, etc.

I agree. But as you pointed out, it's hard not be influenced by all the marketing ploys out there.

ek88 wrote:Do (did) you like the classic lineup more for the music or for their popularity? I'd expect the answer to be music from everyone here, but reading through several of the recent threads, the issues of album sales, airplay, crowd size, and Billboard position seem to be a factor in many of our minds....

For me, it is most definitely because of the music, but...does that mean these other factors (tix & cd sales, charts, air play) don't affect my music tastes? I'd have to say that they do, at least initially.

Why? Because without these, I wouldn't know about the artists to begin with. It's a snowball effect: The artist plays locally, finally gets a record deal, then a single gets a little air play, people call the request line to hear a song or they download it from itunes or some such, so it gets more air play and moves up the charts and sales increase, so the artist & label agree to a "tour" which sells tickets & hopefully more cds, etc. When inclusion on these "lists" begins to dry up, the snowball starts to melt and it's harder to get the label to spend money on the artist, less money for production & promotion, etc. which means less exposure for the artist and therefore fewer new fans.

So, yes, whether we like it or not, these industry measures have some effect on whether we like an artist or not, simply because of the increased exposure they mean for the artist. I mean, if you've never heard the music, how can you be a fan? Case in point: I didn't "discover" Styx until 1980, after the release of, what, their 10th album, when they were still riding high on the GI success. I'm sure there are hundreds if not thousands of excellent bands out there, but without the exposure these "lists" provide, most of us won't ever hear of them.

In addition, the better an artist performs on these "lists" the more willing a label is to invest in them. Therefore, if Styx charts well & gets more recognition because of BBT, the more money UM is likely to invest in promotion, production, touring, etc. which could very well improve the way the band sounds (at least from a production standpoint), possibly even on their upcoming studio release.

Like it or not, these "lists" do have an impact in the quality and amount of the music we get and, therefore, indirectly have some impact on whether or not we like the music.

Having said all this, once I'm familiar with an artist, these lists don't really amount to a hill of beans. Whether DeYoung or Styx "charts" is not going to change my opinion of their musical abilities. I'm glad for them when they do well, but the charts, critics, etc have no impact on how I feel about an artist's music.

On a side note, though, I think there are only a couple of posters who seem to be caught up in where Styx or DeYoung place on these lists. At least, that's my take on it anyway. Still, it makes for a Great Topic!

Just my even more worthless 2 cents. (Now back to catching up on the last week's posts!)

Excellent comments, EE. I agree with the point that it is exposure to a musical artist that brings you to them in the first place. However that happens, it is how the fans are drawn in in the first place.

Once you like something, as you say, and become a fan, you generally will buy whatever they produce, no matter what sort of success the artist may have otherwise.

On re-reading this, it is one of those DUH!! posts, but there it is!


Bugsy

Well, bugs, I'll chime in with a DUH post of my own, by agreeing that exposure of some kind is the key. Once I've had that initial exposure, then the impact of all the other factors is lessened.