OT - The Doors Lawsuit

[SuiteMadameBlue]

Hmmmm, very interesting......

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050723/mus ... e_doors_dc

Former Doors drummer wins suit against bandmates
By Dean Goodman
Fri Jul 22, 9:25 PM ET

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - The former drummer for The Doors won a permanent injunction on Friday preventing his bandmates from using the rock group's name while touring with a revamped version of the legendary 1960s act.

The Los Angeles Superior Court order also requires keyboardist Ray Manzarek and guitarist Robby Krieger, who have been touring as The Doors of the 21st Century, to turn over all the profits earned by the new combo to the original Doors partnership.

The decision represents a major victory for Doors drummer John Densmore, who told Reuters he was concerned that the band's legacy was being tarnished by its reincarnation as an oldies act.

Manzarek and Krieger, along with British singer Ian Astbury subbing for the late Jim Morrison, are touring Canada as headliners of the "Strange Days" festival, which also features such bands as Steppenwolf, the Yardbirds and Vanilla Fudge.

"They're playing Doors songs and calling themselves the Doors of the 21st Century. I kinda think it's the 19th century, it's looking back," said Densmore, who plays original music with his own band Tribal Jazz.

He teamed up with Morrison's estate -- represented by the parents of both Morrison and Morrison's late wife, Pamela Courson -- to sue Krieger and Manzarek in early 2003.

Under an agreement struck in 1971, the year Morrison died in Paris, all three surviving members as well as the Morrison estate must sign off on any use of the Doors name and logo.

"I'm very pleased that, in my opinion, the legacy is preserved," added Densmore. "I never intended for Ray and Robby to stop playing -- they're great musicians. I hope Doors fans keep going to see them -- it's just the name is owned by me and them and the estate of Jim Morrison, and they kinda ran off with stolen property."

Densmore estimated that Manzarek and Krieger have earned "millions and millions of dollars" on the road in recent years, more than the original band ever made.

A management representative for Krieger and Manzarek in Los Angeles did not return a call.

The Doors rose to fame in the late 1960s with such songs as "Light My Fire" and "Touch Me." After Morrison, their provocative frontman and self-styled "lizard king," died of a heart attack, the band eventually folded.

Its mythology exploded with the 1980 publication of the Doors biography "No One Here Gets Out Alive" and then with Oliver Stone's 1991 movie "The Doors." The band was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1993, with the three members reuniting for a few songs behind Pearl Jam singer Eddie Vedder.

[froy]

Hmmmm, very interesting......

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050723/mus ... e_doors_dc

Former Doors drummer wins suit against bandmates
By Dean Goodman
Fri Jul 22, 9:25 PM ET

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - The former drummer for The Doors won a permanent injunction on Friday preventing his bandmates from using the rock group's name while touring with a revamped version of the legendary 1960s act.

The Los Angeles Superior Court order also requires keyboardist Ray Manzarek and guitarist Robby Krieger, who have been touring as The Doors of the 21st Century, to turn over all the profits earned by the new combo to the original Doors partnership.

The decision represents a major victory for Doors drummer John Densmore, who told Reuters he was concerned that the band's legacy was being tarnished by its reincarnation as an oldies act.

Manzarek and Krieger, along with British singer Ian Astbury subbing for the late Jim Morrison, are touring Canada as headliners of the "Strange Days" festival, which also features such bands as Steppenwolf, the Yardbirds and Vanilla Fudge.

"They're playing Doors songs and calling themselves the Doors of the 21st Century. I kinda think it's the 19th century, it's looking back," said Densmore, who plays original music with his own band Tribal Jazz.

He teamed up with Morrison's estate -- represented by the parents of both Morrison and Morrison's late wife, Pamela Courson -- to sue Krieger and Manzarek in early 2003.

Under an agreement struck in 1971, the year Morrison died in Paris, all three surviving members as well as the Morrison estate must sign off on any use of the Doors name and logo.

"I'm very pleased that, in my opinion, the legacy is preserved," added Densmore. "I never intended for Ray and Robby to stop playing -- they're great musicians. I hope Doors fans keep going to see them -- it's just the name is owned by me and them and the estate of Jim Morrison, and they kinda ran off with stolen property."

Densmore estimated that Manzarek and Krieger have earned "millions and millions of dollars" on the road in recent years, more than the original band ever made.

A management representative for Krieger and Manzarek in Los Angeles did not return a call.

The Doors rose to fame in the late 1960s with such songs as "Light My Fire" and "Touch Me." After Morrison, their provocative frontman and self-styled "lizard king," died of a heart attack, the band eventually folded.

Its mythology exploded with the 1980 publication of the Doors biography "No One Here Gets Out Alive" and then with Oliver Stone's 1991 movie "The Doors." The band was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1993, with the three members reuniting for a few songs behind Pearl Jam singer Eddie Vedder.

If Dennis would have gone through with the lawsuit the same result would have happened
No doubt about it.

[SuiteMadameBlue]

I'm going to agree with Froy on this one. I think if Dennis went all the way he totally would of won, no doubt about it.

[styxfanNH]

I bet its already being apealed and it will be settled out of court.

I also believe that if Dennis thought he could win, he wouldn't have settled. None of us know the details of what was in the partnership agreement they all had signed.

[jrnyman28]

I also believe that if Dennis thought he could win, he wouldn't have settled.

Very true. Why would DDY not follow through if he had the legal grounds to stand on. I do not know anything specific about his departure and what kind of agreements were signed, but it must not have been enough for DDY to comfortable follow through.

As for the Doors, I am glad this happened. It just seemed so stupid to have the Doors out there again. I know people love the music and Ian is a talented guy. But he was up there trying to look, act and sound like Jim for the SOLE purpose of playing vintage Doors material. This was about money, not about creating something new.

[froy]

I bet its already being apealed and it will be settled out of court.

Im not sure this a money Issue SNH The Doors of the 21st are really not making that much money

I also believe that if Dennis thought he could win, he wouldn't have settled.

Your wrong both times
He knew he could win
But it would have cost him many thousands with no monitary gain
He ran out of cash plain and simple It was 1 against 3 .

None of us know the details of what was in the partnership agreement they all had signed.

Your wrong again
I have the court papers
Its all there
You should read it
Unbelievable.

Dennis would have won hands down .

[froy]

I also believe that if Dennis thought he could win, he wouldn't have settled.

Very true. Why would DDY not follow through if he had the legal grounds to stand on.

400 dollar an hour lawyers thats why.
Its would have cost him a few hundred grand

I do not know anything specific about his departure and what kind of agreements were signed, but it must not have been enough for DDY to comfortable follow through.

You would be schocked if you read the court papers
The 2 guys stole the band and Chuck followed along .

As for the Doors, I am glad this happened. It just seemed so stupid to have the Doors out there again. I know people love the music and Ian is a talented guy. But he was up there trying to look, act and sound like Jim for the SOLE purpose of playing vintage Doors material. This was about money, not about creating something new.

You could be right
But Jim died
They really have the right to play the music
If Richard carpenter brought in Celine Dion to play a concert of carpenters music would that be ok ?
I say yes it would
Kinda the same thing

[styxfanNH]

here we go again

[The_Noble_Cause]

Your wrong again
I have the court papers

Then scan and post them.
I believe you have "court papers" as much as I believe in your alleged existing "friends" that keep being trotted out everytime you conveniently need confirmation a particular band sucks.

"a bunch of friends of mine went and saw STYX, what a joke!"
"some friends of mine went to see Journey. Boy, oh boy, did they stink!"

[SuiteMadameBlue]

Actually he does have copies of them, there are 74 pages and I don't think Froy has the time to scan and copy them for the site. The papers that were filed are open records.

[classicstyxfan]

Maybe Froy should market those 74 pages as an insomnia remedy.


they sound absolu.......ZZZZZZZZZZ....ZZZZZZZZZZ.......


Huh ? wha, where, who ??????


OK, maybe it wouldnt work for a die-hard Styx fan !

[froy]

Actually he does have copies of them, there are 74 pages and I don't think Froy has the time to scan and copy them for the site. The papers that were filed are open records.

Thank You Suite My Friend
If i could paste and copy i would
If someone could tell me how to do that with a PDF file I would

[froy]

Maybe Froy should market those 74 pages as an insomnia remedy.

Thats what The Big Bang CD is for

[froy]

Your wrong again
I have the court papers

Then scan and post them.
I believe you have "court papers" as much as I believe in your alleged existing "friends" that keep being trotted out everytime you conveniently need confirmation a particular band sucks.

"a bunch of friends of mine went and saw STYX, what a joke!"
"some friends of mine went to see Journey. Boy, oh boy, did they stink!"

You want to know something
I listened to The Generations CD on the way home from Milwaukee last night and let me tell you first hand
Its terrible
Its not Journey period
1 Good Song on the entire cd Faith In The Heartland and thats it
The Song writting is terrible
To use phrases as Standing Tall in 2 songs and Wipe Away The Tears In another is simply not JRNY
The cd sounds like Bad English
Ross Valory 's song is great if he was in ZZ Top because thats exactly who it sounds like NOT JRNY
There Jig is up
Steve Perry get off your ass and take your job back right now pal
JRNY is in trouble

[sadie65]

I also believe that if Dennis thought he could win, he wouldn't have settled.

Very true. Why would DDY not follow through if he had the legal grounds to stand on. I do not know anything specific about his departure and what kind of agreements were signed, but it must not have been enough for DDY to comfortable follow through.

Perhaps as the suit dragged on it took a toll on him (as well as the other members of the band involved). There are simply too many unknown elements here to decide who had the strong/weak case. And 6 years later...does it matter anymore?

[Abitaman]

I bet its already being apealed and it will be settled out of court.

Im not sure this a money Issue SNH The Doors of the 21st are really not making that much money

I also believe that if Dennis thought he could win, he wouldn't have settled.

Your wrong both times
He knew he could win
But it would have cost him many thousands with no monitary gain
He ran out of cash plain and simple It was 1 against 3 .

None of us know the details of what was in the partnership agreement they all had signed.

Your wrong again
I have the court papers
Its all there
You should read it
Unbelievable.

Dennis would have won hands down .

How about sharing or PM. or would you have to kill us afterward -ERIC

[The_Noble_Cause]

Your wrong again
I have the court papers

Then scan and post them.
I believe you have "court papers" as much as I believe in your alleged existing "friends" that keep being trotted out everytime you conveniently need confirmation a particular band sucks.

"a bunch of friends of mine went and saw STYX, what a joke!"
"some friends of mine went to see Journey. Boy, oh boy, did they stink!"

You want to know something
I listened to The Generations CD on the way home from Milwaukee last night and let me tell you first hand
Its terrible
Its not Journey period
1 Good Song on the entire cd Faith In The Heartland and thats it
The Song writting is terrible
To use phrases as Standing Tall in 2 songs and Wipe Away The Tears In another is simply not JRNY
The cd sounds like Bad English
Ross Valory 's song is great if he was in ZZ Top because thats exactly who it sounds like NOT JRNY
There Jig is up
Steve Perry get off your ass and take your job back right now pal
JRNY is in trouble

Track 2, "The Place in Your Heart" is incontrovertibly vintage Journey.
While "Faith in the Heartland" is my personal fav., it's quite a stretch to say it's the only good song on the cd.
What about 'Beyond the Clouds' or Deen's track, "Better Life"?
Or how about the uber ballad, "Knowing that You Love Me".

Easily the best album since Frontiers. Easily.

[jrnyman28]

You want to know something
I listened to The Generations CD on the way home from Milwaukee last night and let me tell you first hand
Its terrible

Your opinion, your welcome to it. I do not share it.

Its not Journey period

How can you say that? Or do you simply want a band to continue regurgitating the same crap year after year after year?

1 Good Song on the entire cd Faith In The Heartland and thats it

Well I guess you are fortunate that it was basically free.

The Song writting is terrible

Again, cannot agree.

To use phrases as Standing Tall in 2 songs and Wipe Away The Tears In another is simply not JRNY

First, why is that simply not Journey?
Second, they used State Of Grace or variations of it in 3 or 4 songs now. But I do not see how it is not Journey. OMG, they used two words together in two different songs! Lynch them.

The cd sounds like Bad English

No it doesn't, but I did like BE so it would probably be OK with me if it did.

Ross Valory 's song is great if he was in ZZ Top because thats exactly who it sounds like NOT JRNY

Now you are losing it...the music is PURE Journey! Just because the vocals do not fit YOUR vision of Journey does not mean it is not Journey. I agree that this song sounds a little out of place on the CD...maybe it should have been a B Side/bonus track. But it is a good song.

There Jig is up

How long have you been saying that?

Steve Perry get off your ass and take your job back right now pal

Get it through your head...HE DOESN'T WANT IT!

JRNY is in trouble

No, really they aren't.
They can keep recording, they can keep touring, they can keep being Journey...it is all up to them.

[jrnyman28]

Easily the best album since Frontiers. Easily.

Easily!

[styxfanNH]

Suite/Froy

Maybe if you post how those that want them could get them that would help.

[The_Noble_Cause]

The Song writting is terrible
To use phrases as Standing Tall in 2 songs and Wipe Away The Tears In another is simply not JRNY

What is so flagrantly bad about either of those two provided examples?
Is that the best you've got to prove that the lyrics are someway inferior?
Weak.

Secondly, what's ur beef with "Wipe Away the tears"?
Aren't you the self-professed girly man whose favorite Arrival track is the screaming estrogen-fest "Lifetime of Dreams"?
Talk about mushy fluff.
Have you even SEEN the sappy lyrics to that tune?
In case not, here they are...

"From the first day... I envisioned myself with you
It’s so hard to wait... But with you it was easy
to do
Somewhere in time...
I knew I would find you here with every
passing moment
I see forever so clear
Part of me was lost without you
You are where I found my faith
Feels like love is here to stay...

CHORUS:
When I look in your eyes baby
I see a lifetime of dreams come true
And I want you to say, that you feel the same
way too
The stars in your eyes tell me
All my tomorrows will wait for you
You’re all of my prayers answered
My one saving grace is you...


In another life... I believed that I loved you then,
If lightning strikes twice, we are destined
together again
We don’t have to make a promise, we were
always meant to be
It’s written in the way you look at me... I see

REPEAT CHORUS

Love moves at the speed of light
Takes years to get it right
But we’ve got till the end of time...
I can see... I can see... You and me, forever
You’re the one woman that can make me stay
My one and only saving grace

REPEAT CHORUS

I can see... I can see
You and me, forever
I can see... I can see
You and me, forever"

© 2000 Fingers Of Joy Music, So Much Music,
Encore Entertainment LLC d/b/a Scott And Soda Music,
BeechTree Publishing administered by Encore
Entertainment LLC (ASCAP).
All Rights Reserved. Used By Permission

[classicstyxfan]

Yikes ! How do I get all this syrup from that last post off of my computer ????

Air Supply could cover that tune, as soon as they finish with covering Styx's "First Time"

oh, and by the way, wouldnt this thread fit in quite well over on the JOURNEY board ?

Just wondering.

[SuiteMadameBlue]

Classic says:

OK, maybe it wouldnt work for a die-hard Styx fan !

Actually this is very interesting for a few die-hard Styx fans or people that are just nosey too

[Abitaman]

SMB thank you-your ever humble roboto-eric

[SuiteMadameBlue]

Hey Classic, I really LOVE the song "First Time" now!! I've been playing pretty often. Play it about 15 times in a row and it will really grow on you

Journey's "Wipe Away The Tears" is an okay song. I like it, I'm sure it will grow on me too

[sadie65]

Hey Classic, I really LOVE the song "First Time" now!! I've been playing pretty often. Play it about 15 times in a row and it will really grow on you

Suite! I like you a lot....but that song...it grows on you all right...like a fungus! Sorry, as much as I like Dennis...that song...UGH to use a term you are familiar with

[SuiteMadameBlue]

Sadie, I like you too, but you don't want to get on my bad side, do you? Just kidding. Just for you and only you, I'm going to request the song "First Time" for the Rockford show. I really, really like this song more and more!!! Don't forget Dennis' voice sounds totally different now compared to the Cornerstone era. Gosh, I really love this album!!

By the way, I do like Paul McCartney and his music Hey wasn't this song dedicated to Paul? Or was it a different one.

Sadie, here are the lyrics, just in case you don't know them for the show - LOL

First Time

The lights are low
And we're alone
The fire's glow
It keeps us warm
As I reach out and touch your face
The moon lights up our first embrace
But please don't hesitate
Hold my hand, don't be afraid
Of the feelings in your heart
Just close your eyes, no one will mind
If we're to fall in love this first time

Don't be afraid of love
Don't be afraid of love
Don't be afraid of love
It's the first time
The first time for love
There could be so many worlds and mountains
We could climb
Together, the two of us tonight

The two of us, we're quite a pair
These lonely nights we both can share
So don't be shy, 'cause it's okay
I understand feeling that way
Hold my hand, don't be afraid
Of the feelings in your heart
Close your eyes, no one will mind
If we're to fall in love this first time

It's the first time
The first time for love
There could be so many worlds and mountains
We could climb
Together, the two of us tonight

[classicstyxfan]

C'mon Suite.....Keyboards are EXPENSIVE ! how DO YOU get all of that
syrup off of yours ? ( Or do you have the keys covered with a layer of plastic for protection ???? )


That song is slightly to the left of England Dan And John Ford Coley !!!

[sadie65]

C'mon Suite.....Keyboards are EXPENSIVE ! how DO YOU get all of that
syrup off of yours ? ( Or do you have the keys covered with a layer of plastic for protection ???? )


That song is slightly to the left of England Dan And John Ford Coley !!!

She's applying for the Mrs. Butterworth position!

Seriously, that song needs to remain gloriously dead! There are enough people battling diabetes. Let's not add to their misery!

[SuiteMadameBlue]

LOL, I do love syrup and any type of sugar!!!

So Sadie and Classic, you really don't like the song "First Time", seriously? I would love to hear that song in concert I'm sure it would sound a little different, really it would!!

I just heard "Lights" again too. Darn, I wish I could go back in time and hear it live in concert - UGH!! Love that song too!!