MR

This article was in my local paper. You all are probably going to slam me into next year because it's probably been posted here somewhere all ready, but I really think it's time JY grew up and stopped whining about Dennis. There is nothing wrong with the ballads that Dennis wrote, and to me they don't detract from the fact that Styx is a rock band. Styx is more than just a rock band, in my opinion, when they were a group they had it all. He should really appreciate what they had more. JMHO... I've been a fan of Styx a long time, and have read here quite a bit but never joined as you all seem to jump on new posters. If you want to jump on me, go right ahead if that's what gets it for you. It's all good.

Here's the link.

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ ... 50310/1002

Sierra,

Welcome to the board. Hope to hear from you often.

I think this article is in here somewhere, but I forget were.

If you have followed this board for a while, then you know for the last year or so, we have been pretty tame. I thought we had actually met at some level of civility. Things changed a month ago. So now we are in the summer mode of one side is better than the other side.

I honestly don't think we trash new posters here. But if you follow this band and THIS board, than you know there are two divisions within the band. And if one of your first post is to trash one side of the band then the other side will come back at you.

Also keep in mind that we get a number of trolls that come onto the board that try to stir things up and we try to protect this little piece of the internet.

There is always a ton more behind the scenes that went on than any of us will ever know. And this is what spurns each of the members feelings.

No doubt that JY should be more sensitive to the feelings of all the fans and recognize that there is a faction of fans that like the softer side. But he speaks from his heart and how he feels and he is at least consistent with how he speaks. He certainly has always leaned toward the harder edged stuff and he certainly has spent the last few years leaning the band in that direction. Some fans like it, some fans don't.

I'm gonna guess that you're going to get slammed by some here. Just a suggestion, let us get to know you before you show your side of the battle. Dazzle us with your knowledge and history of the band, and you'll be adopted us ine of us - whoever we are. The fans on this BB, wspecially those who post are extremely knowledgeable of the band, the politics, and the BS of the other posters.

If I get slammed I get slammed. It's OK. As far as my Styx appreciation goes, I haven't really chosen one side or the other. I just went to see Styx at the fair when they were here and I'm also a fan of Dennis and his contribution to the band. I would like to see the original incarnaton of the band get back together of course. JY is entitled to his feelings about Dennis, but I just think at this point it's immature of him to continue to bash Dennis in interviews. I mean, I get the point, he doesn't like him. You will notice that Dennis doesn't diss JY in interviews does he? Just sayin'.
I don't mind if you know my take on the band right from the get go...and I'm not really worried about proving my Styx history knowledge to anyone. I'm not someone who is anything more than a fan. I don't have enough time to study the history of the band. I'm sure there are lots of people here I can talk to that can fill in the gaps and such. I don't want to get into choosing sides. I like all of them, but I want Dennis with them. That's all. If it's not gonna happen, that's fine. I will support them all whatever they decide.
I'm certain there's a lot that went on behind the scenes over the years that led to the straw that broke the camels back. We are just fans so we can't know the whole deal.
After some of the boards I've been a member of on the net, I'm sure this one is tame. When I was first reading thru the posts I did notice a lot of suspicion toward new posts. It's understandable really. There are a lot of people out there who just like to come and stir things up instead of having real discussions.
So..again StyxfanNH, thanks for the welcome and heads up.

Suite Madame Blue,

Let me just say I love your AVI...Love it.

Thanks for the welcome. I was scared to post for no reason I guess. I happened to stumble on an argument with a new poster the first time I looked at old posts here, so I guess I had that misnomer set in my mind.

Why would I talk about Arbys? YUCK! LOL...

Thanks for the welcome...

I guess all those DDY written songs make him cringe, why don't he stop playing them!!!!
Styx "no firlls"?? no "No thrills"!!

SierraMyst wrote:Suite Madame Blue,

Let me just say I love your AVI...Love it.

Thanks for the welcome. I was scared to post for no reason I guess. I happened to stumble on an argument with a new poster the first time I looked at old posts here, so I guess I had that misnomer set in my mind.

Why would I talk about Arbys? YUCK! LOL...

Thanks for the welcome...

Thanks, I leave Tommy up there for a while

There's one person that doesn't post too often that loves to come after me. Since I figured out who that person was, I don't let it bother me anymore as it did in the past.

Everyone else on here are pretty great!!

I do hope that you post often! I'm sure with more summer shows there will be some new things to talk about!

JY doesn't get it... he doesn't understand that what brought many of us to Styx and made us fans were those songs... it was the pomp and circumstance. It was the whole package.

That's what made them different... sure they had some great rock songs... but they also had so much more...

It doesn't feel the same now... they're more of a straight ahead rock band now... but those are a dime a dozen... but I miss a bit of the over-the-top broadway cheeziness element.

I love the over the top broadway element. Some of the over embellished guitar solo stuff is cheesy in its own right too for that matter.

hahaa, suuuuuurrrreeee, make nice by saying how nice the av is, that'll get you everywhere. hehehe (Just having fun) Heck they let me post here, so why can't you?

Gowan ruined it all for me when I saw them twice and he made the show all about him. JY is bitter, but it fed him for a lot of years, so go figure. Maybe they don't (or do?) stay in 5 star hotels anymore? Is that why he's really mad?

why not?

looks like Arby's is back in style

worse than Arby's "roast beef' is their pot roast Sammiches. BLECH!

I wasn't paying attention much during the Gowan era. I was in the military at the time. I do remember them playing Show Me the Way constantly during the Gulf War though.

I like the fact that Styx music is so diverse. I know some people think that hard rock is the only thing that's cool and worthy, but I like it all. I like the hard rock stuff and the pop stuff, but moreover, I like the way JY, Tommy, and Dennis sound when they harmonize together. They have a unique sound that's just hard to anyone else to replicate.

I'm going to ignore the Arby's comment as I've no idea what it is in reference to.

Anytime you have people that work great together, you don't really think about whether or not get along all the rest of the time.

There are many people that used to sing great together, but fortuantely we have CD's to listen to still.

Gowan is a take it or leave it kind of personality, I THINK. Me not caring for the experience is just that, me not caring. Many people love it, some maybe even love it more than with DDY.

I saw DDY last year and it was a great show in my opinion. I'm not likely to see either side anymore as there are more important things in life to pay for these days, but it was much fun in my concert going experiences, for the most part.

I guess it's a matter of being thankful for what we have. At least we can still go see them perform if we want to. At the risk of being made fun of, I am a Bee Gees fan, and well...Maurice is gone now so, yes, at least we always have the CDs to listen to.

I'm a fan of hard rock... in fact that's my favorite type of music. Styx has some GREAT rockin' songs... but they've always been just a part of the picture.

To me it comes down to songwriting and melody... I am probably in the minority but I actually think the Dennis material on BNW is the strongest material on the album. While I certainly don't think it rocks as hard as the Tommy/JY stuff, I think it's higher quality songmanship. Certainly better writing than most of the Dennis material on EOC.

Do I wish it rocked a bit more, perhaps... but I enjoy it more musically. Maybe I'm drawn to Dennis' sense of melody and his overall style.

I dunno...

Welcome, SierraMyst. I do believe that StyxfanNH gave you a good run-down on things around here.

I like that you like the BeeGee's. Great music from those guys. LOVE their harmonies!

I think we find that a lot of fans of Styx also like the groups that have a more melodic sound. (Melodic Rock, DUH!).

I am a fan of the progressive rock sound of Styx, thus I like their big, keyboard heavy, orchestral sounding songs like "Suite Madame Blue", "The Grand Illusion", "Castle Walls", etc. (What a coincidence! They were all written by DDY. )

Look forward to reading what you have to say.

Bugsy

Standard fare interview - nothing really new there. Styx started out more as a prog rock band ("Movement for the Common Man" anyone?) than a hard rock one. If anything, they are hard rock light. Sabbath they ain't LOL

"We need to be more of a rock band," he said. "We recognize that now to get airplay on a new track is more difficult, as we're typecast as dinosaurs.

Hate to bring it up again, but "Yes I Can" - recorded by THIS lineup of the band - rocks about as hard as Elmo. It may not have been played live, but it's sure part of their legacy.

"We made some amazing records together, but based on Dennis' behavior from 1982 onwards, we have no desire to work with him ever again," Young said. "Dennis seemed unwilling to be a team member."

This is what will help to fan the fires forever. I'm sorry, but it dates back to 1979, not 1982, and they happily took him back for 20 years. JY certainly was not complaining when the money was rolling in from multiple platinum albums like Cornerstone and PT which had ballads as hits, or Kilroy led by "Roboto" which didn't rock as hard as, say, "Miss America". This is where I have the issue with how things ultimately went down.

I'll say it again - I've never worked with Dennis on a day-to-day basis and can't pretend to know how good and/or bad it may have been. I'm not even going to speculate. I don't think any of them are all sunshine and roses 24/7, come to think of it. For whatever reason after 20 years, they decided to go their own way after Brave New World when they felt they could do a break. Had this been 1979 again and they were at the height of their popularity, I bet the same thing that happened in 1979 would have happened in 1999.

I like both shows (DDY & Styx), but the rhetoric has to end. It's silly seven years on.

Although Yes I Can was never played live, many of the full length songs from Cyclorama played prior to the show in the pre-show music. The same is true for a few songs from BBT.

I am guessing it was/is supposed to make the audience go, hmmm I wonder who that is.

Someone close to the band needs to get to JY and tell him how he is coming across. But I am betting it's tactical.

I am also guessing that they feel some additional need to prove thwmselves now that Glen is with DDY. This is why we are seeing shots again from Tommy as well as JY.

This is what will help to fan the fires forever. I'm sorry, but it dates back to 1979, not 1982, and they happily took him back for 20 years.

Happily? History doesn't support that description. Reluctantly is a better word here.

JY certainly was not complaining when the money was rolling in from multiple platinum albums like Cornerstone and PT which had ballads as hits

Wait a sec...you just brought up about Dennis being FIRED. That's not complaining enough for you? That seems like a huge contradiction to me.

or Kilroy led by "Roboto" which didn't rock as hard as, say, "Miss America".

Oh, no, they didn't complain. They just broke up for a number of years.

Had this been 1979 again and they were at the height of their popularity, I bet the same thing that happened in 1979 would have happened in 1999.

Of course...but, 1999 is in a different place then in 1979. They had a choice...They could either continue Styx with Dennis controling and limiting how much and how often they toured...Or, they could let him go and do what THEY (everybody else in the band) wanted. It's actually the same question Journey had to answer after TBF was released. They had nothing to lose by letting Dennis go, at that point.

In 1979, they had a lot to lose...The stakes were a lot greater...the risk was a lot higher...so they played it safe.

I don't mind if you know my take on the band right from the get go...and I'm not really worried about proving my Styx history knowledge to anyone. I'm not someone who is anything more than a fan. I don't have enough time to study the history of the band. I'm sure there are lots of people here I can talk to that can fill in the gaps and such. I don't want to get into choosing sides. I like all of them, but I want Dennis with them. That's all. If it's not gonna happen, that's fine. I will support them all whatever they decide.
I'm certain there's a lot that went on behind the scenes over the years that led to the straw that broke the camels back. We are just fans so we can't know the whole deal.

Well said!!!! I could not agree more. Just so you know Sierra - I am one that occasionaly stirs the pot - just with Froy though - I like to see him get fired up . I agree 100% with the statement above - as fans we have no control over the inner workings of the band - just go and enjoy - both shows if you so choose. Life is short - live it up and don't get caught up in little things that serve no purpose.

styxfanNH wrote:Although Yes I Can was never played live, many of the full length songs from Cyclorama played prior to the show in the pre-show music. The same is true for a few songs from BBT.

I am guessing it was/is supposed to make the audience go, hmmm I wonder who that is.

Someone close to the band needs to get to JY and tell him how he is coming across. But I am betting it's tactical.

I am also guessing that they feel some additional need to prove thwmselves now that Glen is with DDY. This is why we are seeing shots again from Tommy as well as JY.

JY is the CEO of Styx - he's the head of the clan. He owns the name and he can do whatever he wants. Nobody is going to tell him to do anything. Not even Tommy has ownership in the Styx name anymore... only Chuck and JY... and who even knows about Chuck anymore these days.

Let Tommy and JY keep taking shots... it gives me and others the opportunity to point out their bitterness and hatred that Dennis is relevant despite his having gone the broadway route. I bet nothing makes them crazy. For all their "wanting to be rock and roll" there isn't any way that they can compete with the rock scene today which consists of bands like Linkin Park, Evanescense, Disturbed, and Killswitch Engage. Tommy and JY can't hold a candle to those guys in their genre. That is what defines rock these days... not "Do Things My Way" and "Fields of Brave".... Even Glen knew this when he went off to make Welcome To Hollywood (which has a distinct Linkin Park flavor).

The last time I saw Styx in concert, it most definitely wasn't about JY. They put on an amazing performance and I was happy to see the teenagers in the crowd singing along. Great music, great concert.

Liz22562 wrote:The last time I saw Styx in concert, it most definitely wasn't about JY. They put on an amazing performance and I was happy to see the teenagers in the crowd singing along. Great music, great concert.

I don't think that's the issue most people have, Liz. MOST of us here know they put on a good show (sans one or three), but they're upset how JY always likes to mention Dennis amd how much harder and edgier they are without him, etc.

To give props to the recent DDY article, he was quoted saying something to the effect of "You have two guys there and two guys here. Enjoy it..." paraphrasing here, but you get the point (Although, Glen, who is now miraculously reached status of "Styx member" was only one of "JY, Tommy, and a couple other guys" when DDY was doing his interview circuits in '99 and 2000, but I guess that's all changed since Glen is now playing with Dennis). *g* My attitude has always been, the more the merrier. You don't have to agree with how things are handled to be able to appreciate that we now have 2 "forms" of Styx touring around. If you don't like the interviews, stop reading them - support the music you enjoy because you love the music.

Amen, Zan. Amen.

Zan wrote:

Liz22562 wrote:The last time I saw Styx in concert, it most definitely wasn't about JY. They put on an amazing performance and I was happy to see the teenagers in the crowd singing along. Great music, great concert.

I don't think that's the issue most people have, Liz. MOST of us here know they put on a good show (sans one or three), but they're upset how JY always likes to mention Dennis amd how much harder and edgier they are without him, etc.

To give props to the recent DDY article, he was quoted saying something to the effect of "You have two guys there and two guys here. Enjoy it..." paraphrasing here, but you get the point (Although, Glen, who is now miraculously reached status of "Styx member" was only one of "JY, Tommy, and a couple other guys" when DDY was doing his interview circuits in '99 and 2000, but I guess that's all changed since Glen is now playing with Dennis). *g* My attitude has always been, the more the merrier. You don't have to agree with how things are handled to be able to appreciate that we now have 2 "forms" of Styx touring around. If you don't like the interviews, stop reading them - support the music you enjoy because you love the music.

I wouldn't read the interviews if they weren't posted here. And to be honest, whether or not I like them or not isn't the issue. The issue to me is more the revisionist history and how it tends to be adapted given what is currently going on around him (speaking in terms of JY). You can have two sides of an argument - two people who see the same set of circulstances in completely different lights and still have an intellectually honest debate. When you degrade that into denegrating the other person's work and say how it makes you sick when for years you went along with it - then intellectual honesty goes out the window.

To me - it's been more about intellectual honesty and the highly personal tone that JY takes when approaching the subject.

Besides - I've met Dennis enough times now to consider him a friend... and when someone attacks a friend - they've attacked me. And with Suite knowing Dennis and Suzanne a lot more closely than I do I can only imagine how some of the mischaricturizations(froy spelling) make her feel as well.

I have a group of programmers I worked with 5 years ago and after 2 years of work we hated eachother. We flamed and fought on forums for about a year. Now while some of them are content to pick the burning ashes and embers for more conflict, the only thing I say to people is "They had their way of doing things - and I have mine... and here's what I'm doing now please don't ask me about them."

Ash wrote:I wouldn't read the interviews if they weren't posted here. And to be honest, whether or not I like them or not isn't the issue. The issue to me is more the revisionist history and how it tends to be adapted given what is currently going on around him (speaking in terms of JY). You can have two sides of an argument - two people who see the same set of circulstances in completely different lights and still have an intellectually honest debate. When you degrade that into denegrating the other person's work and say how it makes you sick when for years you went along with it - then intellectual honesty goes out the window.

Well, it ain't like it's any big secret that JY and Tommy weren't thrilled with the musical direction of the band back in "the day," Ash. It's not revisionist history, maybe perhaps selective memory in some cases is all.

To me - it's been more about intellectual honesty and the highly personal tone that JY takes when approaching the subject.

I know.

Besides - I've met Dennis enough times now to consider him a friend... and when someone attacks a friend - they've attacked me. And with Suite knowing Dennis and Suzanne a lot more closely than I do I can only imagine how some of the mischaricturizations(froy spelling) make her feel as well.

LOL...well, that does explain a lot. It's more about loyalty than it is about the actual music or situation. I guess we're having two different arguments, then. Now, that said, how do you know that there aren't people here who are close with anyone in the other camp? Do you think that the DeYoungs are the only ones who have friends that read the internet message boards?

I have a group of programmers I worked with 5 years ago and after 2 years of work we hated eachother. We flamed and fought on forums for about a year. Now while some of them are content to pick the burning ashes and embers for more conflict, the only thing I say to people is "They had their way of doing things - and I have mine... and here's what I'm doing now please don't ask me about them."

Yes, that is a good way of dealing with it. I agree. But I have my feelings that if JY answered questions about Dennis this way, people would still get pissed about it - "Whatta ya mean, don't ask about him?? He was ONLY the guy who brought you all the fame and fortune, you ingratefull ass..." and so on.

Monker wrote:Happily? History doesn't support that description. Reluctantly is a better word here.

Can't be that reluctant. They could have told Dennis to go fuck off in 1979, and every year up until 1999. They didn't. You can't be that reluctant when you keep dipping in the well. You're a willing participant. It's always good to complain after the fact.

Wait a sec...you just brought up about Dennis being FIRED. That's not complaining enough for you? That seems like a huge contradiction to me.

They fired him and took him back months later, and then kept him for essentially another 20 years. When they tried to get Styx back together around the time just before or after Ambition and DDY was working on Boomchild and told them to wait, why didn't JY, TS, CP, and JP go on without him and get rid of DDY then? Insted they waited another cycle and went on w/o Tommy. So what does that say? I'm sorry, but if I'm that miserable for 20 years, I don't wait 20 years and then rid myself of the pain.

Oh, no, they didn't complain. They just broke up for a number of years.

They could have stood up to DDY while the album was being made or the tour was done the way it was. But they didn't, or didn't care enough since the money was still coming in. Again, I just can't buy the fact that DDY was such a pain in the ass that they continued in some way, shape, or form to either wait for him or choose willingly to work with him. I saw the 1991 legal agreements - CP, JY, and JP signed some of the worst agreements I've ever seen. Why put yourself through that? Seriously ...

Of course...but, 1999 is in a different place then in 1979. They had a choice...They could either continue Styx with Dennis controling and limiting how much and how often they toured...Or, they could let him go and do what THEY (everybody else in the band) wanted. It's actually the same question Journey had to answer after TBF was released. They had nothing to lose by letting Dennis go, at that point.

In 1979, they had a lot to lose...The stakes were a lot greater...the risk was a lot higher...so they played it safe.

DDY did not limit their touring really in those days. Heck, they were nearly continuously on tour between Cornerstone and PT. The Cornerstone tour was the fall of 79 and the whole spring of 80. The PT tour was nearly a year. None of this 40 dates and out which started in 1991. They played Europe multiple times between 1978 and 1982, and Japan once. That's not limiting. The 40 summer date tour in 1991? Limiting. Years of touring through PT? Not limiting. JY gets no slack from me for as you put it "playing it safe" in 1979. They had a lot to lose because the cash was flowing. Once the cash was not flowing (which it still kinda was in 1996 and 1997, although 1997 not as much), they all of a sudden grow some stones? Come on. Before that, JY had worked with Dennis for nearly 30 years.

Yes, 1999 is different than 1979, but as I've said a million times, you don't get my sympathy vote if you take back someone who is supposedly evil incarnate. Assuming what DDY said is true for the moment and he asked them to wait until September to tour, but they wanted to go out in July, what was the big deal to wait a month and a half or so to start a tour other than not playing the sheds? Clearly they were not getting along, but why screw the pooch as DDY is a bigger draw than Gowan is in the context of Styx and the classic lineup. I'm in no way saying that a lineup of DDY, JY, Tommy, Todd, and Glen would have done any better than the lineup with Gowan sales wise of albums, but I don't think they would have been playing some of the places I saw them early on.

Easy to play armchair quarterback, but I've intereviewed the guys and know more than I will ever say about the behind the scenes as it's not my place to air any dirty laundry. I've worked at jobs where I've been so miserable I've left. It never takes 20+ years.

You essentially made my point - in 1999 they did have nothing to lose. The game was essentially over, the cash cow had sailed. The hype of the reunion was over. Unlike the TBF situation, Schon and Cain stupidly fired Herbie by going along with Perry, and then Perry strung them along. Again, if you take Dennis at face value, he said September. They said fuck you and went out in July. Maybe they would have naturally parted ways anyway after a tour. Tell me how that's worse than Steve Perry stringing them along for nearly two years and finally forcing Jon and Neal to say fuck it, we're going on the road and got Augeri.

At least Styx had the cojones to get a non-lookalike or soundalike. I really respect them for that. Gowan, for better or worse, has made the DDY songs he sings his own and not tried to really mimic him. SOme he does better than others.

But on the other hand, I respect Journey more for delving into their catalog more to please the die hards live (current controversy nonwithstanding). Styx hasn't really done it. Dennis has. Styx really needs to cater to the die hards more IMHO. DDY recognizes the fact that pulling out the moldy oldies makes a few fans go ga-ga. Styx puts 30 seconds in a medley. Color me unimpressed. JY the rock guy should re-listen to some of their vintage live stuff and bring back tunes like "Midnight Ride", or "22 YEars" where he not only sang, but he did guitar duels with Tommy. Where's that fire? It's not there. At least I'm not seeing it. Styx post-1977 is a much different band live, and the current lineup IMHO needs to rediscover that older band if they want to really be that stellar rock band they strive to be. The soundboard stuff from 1977 and earlier is amazing.