MR

Sorry, but this could have been right at home on Grand Illusion, Crystal Ball, or Pieces of Eight. It is very late 70s Styx.

Bits of it, yeah.

No need to apologize for it, though.

rajah2165 wrote:Sorry, but this could have been right at home on Grand Illusion, Crystal Ball, or Pieces of Eight. It is very late 70s Styx.

As it is, I don't hear it and therefore do not agree it could have been a song on any of those albums. I am bored with it. The changes in the middle livin it up some but it's a sophmoric effort in my opinion. Could have created most of that song with Acid Loops ...throw in an Oberhiem at the end and his voice..there is the song. Not very creative in my opinion. He is capable of much better.

Crossing the Rubicon isn't necessarily my favorite song on 100 Years - I like the title track and "Save Me" more- but stylistically it could have been on a "classic era" Styx record. The title track from Crystal Ball is hardly a great artistic achievement musically..."Jennifer" was a rather banal attempt to merge Equinox-like frivolity and "Grove of Eglantine" taboos. Rubicon, in my view, easily could have replaced those songs on Crystal Ball. Equinox and TGI? Can't mess with those. Stylistically, this song could have fit...but it wouldn't have made the cut IMHO. Of course, it could have also VERY easily replaced a NUMBER of songs on Cyclorama.

Grotelul wrote:

rajah2165 wrote:Sorry, but this could have been right at home on Grand Illusion, Crystal Ball, or Pieces of Eight. It is very late 70s Styx.

As it is, I don't hear it and therefore do not agree it could have been a song on any of those albums. I am bored with it. The changes in the middle livin it up some but it's a sophmoric effort in my opinion. Could have created most of that song with Acid Loops ...throw in an Oberhiem at the end and his voice..there is the song. Not very creative in my opinion. He is capable of much better.

You really don't understand music at all do you? You could argue that Castle Walls is "boring" for the first 3 1/2 minutes or that Suite Madame Blue is "boring" for the first 3 minutes.

Not everything has to have a power chord all the time for it to be good - there are plenty of Styx songs from the late 70s that are like that.

But go ahead and crank up Miss America dude!

rajah2165 wrote:

Grotelul wrote:

rajah2165 wrote:Sorry, but this could have been right at home on Grand Illusion, Crystal Ball, or Pieces of Eight. It is very late 70s Styx.

As it is, I don't hear it and therefore do not agree it could have been a song on any of those albums. I am bored with it. The changes in the middle livin it up some but it's a sophmoric effort in my opinion. Could have created most of that song with Acid Loops ...throw in an Oberhiem at the end and his voice..there is the song. Not very creative in my opinion. He is capable of much better.

You really don't understand music at all do you? You could argue that Castle Walls is "boring" for the first 3 1/2 minutes or that Suite Madame Blue is "boring" for the first 3 minutes.

Not everything has to have a power chord all the time for it to be good - there are plenty of Styx songs from the late 70s that are like that.

But go ahead and crank up Miss America dude!

I understand music quite well...do you? Castle Walls with the harpsichord sound and eery vocals made it interesting. Great vocals on that song. Suite Madame Blue has the cool guitar behind his great vocal. What does Rubicon have that is interesting or creative during that slow piece? He sings it like it's a broadway piece.. Boring. Nothing stands out to me as very creative during this part. I heard it and thought...hmm..does nothing for me.

"Rubicon" is right up there with some of the best material Dennis has ever written. I would go as far as to say that it could have been on "TGI", or "POE".

say what you will about Rubicon as a song, but it's problematic, IMHO, to criticize the vocal. While Dennis' keyboard skills have diminished over the years (IMHO), his voice has arguably improved. Does he sing this song like he's "on broadway?" Well, over the years, his tenor has gotten much "richer" and "fuller" akin to some singers on broadway, so I suppose it's possible. Still, IMHO, his vocal on Rubicon is every bit as strong as it's been on virtually any of his past efforts. The only song, from a pure vocal perspective, that REALLY stands alone for me for Dennis is Queen of Spades. It stands up with the best that Steve Perry or Brad Delp and others of that ilk have EVER done.

"Knowledge" of music is beside the point. It's what touches us - what makes Rubicon work for me is the fact that it's not overblown or overproduced. Dennis sings with real emotion and despair that is clear he's actually experienced. Is it a "great" song? No, not in my view. It's a very good song and it's well performed and produced.

What's clear to me - and it's perfectly "ok" and what made Styx fans the eclectic mix it's always been - that some simply love Dennis and others don't like him and will go to certain lengths to express this dislike. For "anti-DeYoungians," 100 Years represents, perhaps, a bit of a dilemma. Cyclorama - despite the fact that, IMHO, isn't truly a "Styx" album - WAS, in my view, at times a terrific disc of music. I thought Tommy Shaw shined consistently on that album. Despite this, Cyclorama DIDN'T do much for Styx' popularity - it didn't catapult them into a "delightful twighlight." For the non Styx fan, it came and went with nary a whimper.

100 Years may very well have the same ultimate fate as Cyclorama, but it IS at least an ATTEMPT by Dennis to shed some of his cheesy, syrrupy schtick from the recent past. It also is being marketed in a way to take advantage of his mini-resurgence of popularity in Quebec (i.e. the Illinois of Canada). It's not HUGE there but it has generated some buzz. Dennis' upcoming show in Montreal is being announced via, among other things, a giant billboard. The release and (here's the rub) airplay of a more viable single ("Save Me?") MAY produce similar results to what he experienced with his live CD. It COULD - I'm not saying it WILL - but it could end up surpassing Cyclorama in total sales.

So the antiDeYoungian is faced with the possibility of "Dennis DeYoung and the Music of Styx" - thanks in some measure to his most recent release - becoming the "face" of Styx to more people than the band itself. It's not a BIG deal obviously - life will "somehow" go on and in the end sales will be shitty for all camps relatively speaking - but SOME of the animus I've read toward 100 Years - and, again, there's nothing wrong with it - we're all very entitled to our opinions - seems to be based on things OTHER than the merits of the music.

kipthekid wrote:say what you will about Rubicon as a song, but it's problematic, IMHO, to criticize the vocal. While Dennis' keyboard skills have diminished over the years (IMHO), his voice has arguably improved. Does he sing this song like he's "on broadway?" Well, over the years, his tenor has gotten much "richer" and "fuller" akin to some singers on broadway, so I suppose it's possible. Still, IMHO, his vocal on Rubicon is every bit as strong as it's been on virtually any of his past efforts. The only song, from a pure vocal perspective, that REALLY stands alone for me for Dennis is Queen of Spades. It stands up with the best that Steve Perry or Brad Delp and others of that ilk have EVER done.

"Knowledge" of music is beside the point. It's what touches us - what makes Rubicon work for me is the fact that it's not overblown or overproduced. Dennis sings with real emotion and despair that is clear he's actually experienced. Is it a "great" song? No, not in my view. It's a very good song and it's well performed and produced.

What's clear to me - and it's perfectly "ok" and what made Styx fans the eclectic mix it's always been - that some simply love Dennis and others don't like him and will go to certain lengths to express this dislike. For "anti-DeYoungians," 100 Years represents, perhaps, a bit of a dilemma. Cyclorama - despite the fact that, IMHO, isn't truly a "Styx" album - WAS, in my view, at times a terrific disc of music. I thought Tommy Shaw shined consistently on that album. Despite this, Cyclorama DIDN'T do much for Styx' popularity - it didn't catapult them into a "delightful twighlight." For the non Styx fan, it came and went with nary a whimper.

100 Years may very well have the same ultimate fate as Cyclorama, but it IS at least an ATTEMPT by Dennis to shed some of his cheesy, syrrupy schtick from the recent past. It also is being marketed in a way to take advantage of his mini-resurgence of popularity in Quebec (i.e. the Illinois of Canada). It's not HUGE there but it has generated some buzz. Dennis' upcoming show in Montreal is being announced via, among other things, a giant billboard. The release and (here's the rub) airplay of a more viable single ("Save Me?") MAY produce similar results to what he experienced with his live CD. It COULD - I'm not saying it WILL - but it could end up surpassing Cyclorama in total sales.

So the antiDeYoungian is faced with the possibility of "Dennis DeYoung and the Music of Styx" - thanks in some measure to his most recent release - becoming the "face" of Styx to more people than the band itself. It's not a BIG deal obviously - life will "somehow" go on and in the end sales will be shitty for all camps relatively speaking - but SOME of the animus I've read toward 100 Years - and, again, there's nothing wrong with it - we're all very entitled to our opinions - seems to be based on things OTHER than the merits of the music.

Great post. It kills the Anti_DeYoungians to see him having success while their boys are floundering in creative oblivion. It made them upset when Glen left them and then decided to join up with DDY. And you can bet it will piss them off when this album outsells Cyclorama. Probably almost as much as it will piss off JY.

And I will laugh and laugh and laugh and laugh....

rajah2165 wrote:

kipthekid wrote:say what you will about Rubicon as a song, but it's problematic, IMHO, to criticize the vocal. While Dennis' keyboard skills have diminished over the years (IMHO), his voice has arguably improved. Does he sing this song like he's "on broadway?" Well, over the years, his tenor has gotten much "richer" and "fuller" akin to some singers on broadway, so I suppose it's possible. Still, IMHO, his vocal on Rubicon is every bit as strong as it's been on virtually any of his past efforts. The only song, from a pure vocal perspective, that REALLY stands alone for me for Dennis is Queen of Spades. It stands up with the best that Steve Perry or Brad Delp and others of that ilk have EVER done.

"Knowledge" of music is beside the point. It's what touches us - what makes Rubicon work for me is the fact that it's not overblown or overproduced. Dennis sings with real emotion and despair that is clear he's actually experienced. Is it a "great" song? No, not in my view. It's a very good song and it's well performed and produced.

What's clear to me - and it's perfectly "ok" and what made Styx fans the eclectic mix it's always been - that some simply love Dennis and others don't like him and will go to certain lengths to express this dislike. For "anti-DeYoungians," 100 Years represents, perhaps, a bit of a dilemma. Cyclorama - despite the fact that, IMHO, isn't truly a "Styx" album - WAS, in my view, at times a terrific disc of music. I thought Tommy Shaw shined consistently on that album. Despite this, Cyclorama DIDN'T do much for Styx' popularity - it didn't catapult them into a "delightful twighlight." For the non Styx fan, it came and went with nary a whimper.

100 Years may very well have the same ultimate fate as Cyclorama, but it IS at least an ATTEMPT by Dennis to shed some of his cheesy, syrrupy schtick from the recent past. It also is being marketed in a way to take advantage of his mini-resurgence of popularity in Quebec (i.e. the Illinois of Canada). It's not HUGE there but it has generated some buzz. Dennis' upcoming show in Montreal is being announced via, among other things, a giant billboard. The release and (here's the rub) airplay of a more viable single ("Save Me?") MAY produce similar results to what he experienced with his live CD. It COULD - I'm not saying it WILL - but it could end up surpassing Cyclorama in total sales.

So the antiDeYoungian is faced with the possibility of "Dennis DeYoung and the Music of Styx" - thanks in some measure to his most recent release - becoming the "face" of Styx to more people than the band itself. It's not a BIG deal obviously - life will "somehow" go on and in the end sales will be shitty for all camps relatively speaking - but SOME of the animus I've read toward 100 Years - and, again, there's nothing wrong with it - we're all very entitled to our opinions - seems to be based on things OTHER than the merits of the music.

Great post. It kills the Anti_DeYoungians to see him having success while their boys are floundering in creative oblivion. It made them upset when Glen left them and then decided to join up with DDY. And you can bet it will piss them off when this album outsells Cyclorama. Probably almost as much as it will piss off JY.And I will laugh and laugh and laugh and laugh....

It doesn't kill anybody that Dennis is having sales success. "Pop Muzik" and "Rock Me Amedeus" and "Oh Mickey You're So Fine" sold a butt load of records too. Doesn't mean they were brilliant. Sales doesn't necessarily equal good. Otherwise, Brittany would be a rock Goddess. .. yeah, right.
It's nice that Dennis is having good sales. Maybe if Dennis hadn't sat on his ass for the last 11 years, people would give him a bit more credit. Maybe if the truth didn't come out that he was a complete ego maniac that steered the band into crap like Mr. Roboto and First Time and actually was responsible for fracturing the band, people wouldn't be so quick to write him off. The reason there's not a unified Styx is because of Dennis and his ego. He needs a bus just to carry it around.

from your silly comments re: Dennis and an appearance he made at Seaworld now this. Yes, it's obvious you don't like Dennis -and, to be sure, there's been plenty - from my perspective - NOT to like. But it certainly isn't Dennis' fault that JY can't let things go. Time has a way of changing things - in 1999, the arrow clearly, in my view, pointed at Dennis. Since then, Glenn Burtnik has left Styx and occassionally plays with Dennis - and has indicated that his views on DDY have changed during that time. Unfortunately - primarily because of JY's inability to temper his public comments, "New Styx" has lost alot of the "higher ground" here.

As far as why people might prefer Dennis to "New Styx" - it's a matter of taste and opinion. Dennis built up a fan base over the years. His voice is heard on many of Styx' biggest hits/most recognizable tunes. Someone else is now singing his songs with Styx and, for some (myself included), while that individual is clearly a better musician than Dennis, he's not close to being an adequate fill-in vocally. As far him being a "rocker" well, actually, to me he's more of a super-skilled caberet piano player. Lots of energy to be sure - but a true rocker he ain't.

To be sure, Dennis can cut a "dorky" visage on stage - he always did. The cool thing, from my perspective, is that he's keenly aware of it. He's kind of a geek, he knows it, and has fun with it. He's a 60 year old singing "Mr. Roboto" for God's sake.

brywool wrote:

rajah2165 wrote:

kipthekid wrote:say what you will about Rubicon as a song, but it's problematic, IMHO, to criticize the vocal. While Dennis' keyboard skills have diminished over the years (IMHO), his voice has arguably improved. Does he sing this song like he's "on broadway?" Well, over the years, his tenor has gotten much "richer" and "fuller" akin to some singers on broadway, so I suppose it's possible. Still, IMHO, his vocal on Rubicon is every bit as strong as it's been on virtually any of his past efforts. The only song, from a pure vocal perspective, that REALLY stands alone for me for Dennis is Queen of Spades. It stands up with the best that Steve Perry or Brad Delp and others of that ilk have EVER done.

"Knowledge" of music is beside the point. It's what touches us - what makes Rubicon work for me is the fact that it's not overblown or overproduced. Dennis sings with real emotion and despair that is clear he's actually experienced. Is it a "great" song? No, not in my view. It's a very good song and it's well performed and produced.

What's clear to me - and it's perfectly "ok" and what made Styx fans the eclectic mix it's always been - that some simply love Dennis and others don't like him and will go to certain lengths to express this dislike. For "anti-DeYoungians," 100 Years represents, perhaps, a bit of a dilemma. Cyclorama - despite the fact that, IMHO, isn't truly a "Styx" album - WAS, in my view, at times a terrific disc of music. I thought Tommy Shaw shined consistently on that album. Despite this, Cyclorama DIDN'T do much for Styx' popularity - it didn't catapult them into a "delightful twighlight." For the non Styx fan, it came and went with nary a whimper.

100 Years may very well have the same ultimate fate as Cyclorama, but it IS at least an ATTEMPT by Dennis to shed some of his cheesy, syrrupy schtick from the recent past. It also is being marketed in a way to take advantage of his mini-resurgence of popularity in Quebec (i.e. the Illinois of Canada). It's not HUGE there but it has generated some buzz. Dennis' upcoming show in Montreal is being announced via, among other things, a giant billboard. The release and (here's the rub) airplay of a more viable single ("Save Me?") MAY produce similar results to what he experienced with his live CD. It COULD - I'm not saying it WILL - but it could end up surpassing Cyclorama in total sales.

So the antiDeYoungian is faced with the possibility of "Dennis DeYoung and the Music of Styx" - thanks in some measure to his most recent release - becoming the "face" of Styx to more people than the band itself. It's not a BIG deal obviously - life will "somehow" go on and in the end sales will be shitty for all camps relatively speaking - but SOME of the animus I've read toward 100 Years - and, again, there's nothing wrong with it - we're all very entitled to our opinions - seems to be based on things OTHER than the merits of the music.

Great post. It kills the Anti_DeYoungians to see him having success while their boys are floundering in creative oblivion. It made them upset when Glen left them and then decided to join up with DDY. And you can bet it will piss them off when this album outsells Cyclorama. Probably almost as much as it will piss off JY.And I will laugh and laugh and laugh and laugh....

It doesn't kill anybody that Dennis is having sales success. "Pop Muzik" and "Rock Me Amedeus" and "Oh Mickey You're So Fine" sold a butt load of records too. Doesn't mean they were brilliant. Sales doesn't necessarily equal good. Otherwise, Brittany would be a rock Goddess. .. yeah, right.
It's nice that Dennis is having good sales. Maybe if Dennis hadn't sat on his ass for the last 11 years, people would give him a bit more credit. Maybe if the truth didn't come out that he was a complete ego maniac that steered the band into crap like Mr. Roboto and First Time and actually was responsible for fracturing the band, people wouldn't be so quick to write him off. The reason there's not a unified Styx is because of Dennis and his ego. He needs a bus just to carry it around.

No, it bugs the shit out of you - you can tell just by your post.

And so you bring it back to the "Its Dennis's fault the band broke up arguement." Give me a break. It was all his fault...yeah...Tommy's penchant for nose candy and heroin didn't have anything to do with the breakup....JY's lack of an open mind to do anything beyond the straight forward 3 chord rock song...nope that wasn't the reason either...it was all Dennis..

rajah2165 wrote:

brywool wrote:

rajah2165 wrote:

kipthekid wrote:say what you will about Rubicon as a song, but it's problematic, IMHO, to criticize the vocal. While Dennis' keyboard skills have diminished over the years (IMHO), his voice has arguably improved. Does he sing this song like he's "on broadway?" Well, over the years, his tenor has gotten much "richer" and "fuller" akin to some singers on broadway, so I suppose it's possible. Still, IMHO, his vocal on Rubicon is every bit as strong as it's been on virtually any of his past efforts. The only song, from a pure vocal perspective, that REALLY stands alone for me for Dennis is Queen of Spades. It stands up with the best that Steve Perry or Brad Delp and others of that ilk have EVER done.

"Knowledge" of music is beside the point. It's what touches us - what makes Rubicon work for me is the fact that it's not overblown or overproduced. Dennis sings with real emotion and despair that is clear he's actually experienced. Is it a "great" song? No, not in my view. It's a very good song and it's well performed and produced.

What's clear to me - and it's perfectly "ok" and what made Styx fans the eclectic mix it's always been - that some simply love Dennis and others don't like him and will go to certain lengths to express this dislike. For "anti-DeYoungians," 100 Years represents, perhaps, a bit of a dilemma. Cyclorama - despite the fact that, IMHO, isn't truly a "Styx" album - WAS, in my view, at times a terrific disc of music. I thought Tommy Shaw shined consistently on that album. Despite this, Cyclorama DIDN'T do much for Styx' popularity - it didn't catapult them into a "delightful twighlight." For the non Styx fan, it came and went with nary a whimper.

100 Years may very well have the same ultimate fate as Cyclorama, but it IS at least an ATTEMPT by Dennis to shed some of his cheesy, syrrupy schtick from the recent past. It also is being marketed in a way to take advantage of his mini-resurgence of popularity in Quebec (i.e. the Illinois of Canada). It's not HUGE there but it has generated some buzz. Dennis' upcoming show in Montreal is being announced via, among other things, a giant billboard. The release and (here's the rub) airplay of a more viable single ("Save Me?") MAY produce similar results to what he experienced with his live CD. It COULD - I'm not saying it WILL - but it could end up surpassing Cyclorama in total sales.

So the antiDeYoungian is faced with the possibility of "Dennis DeYoung and the Music of Styx" - thanks in some measure to his most recent release - becoming the "face" of Styx to more people than the band itself. It's not a BIG deal obviously - life will "somehow" go on and in the end sales will be shitty for all camps relatively speaking - but SOME of the animus I've read toward 100 Years - and, again, there's nothing wrong with it - we're all very entitled to our opinions - seems to be based on things OTHER than the merits of the music.

Great post. It kills the Anti_DeYoungians to see him having success while their boys are floundering in creative oblivion. It made them upset when Glen left them and then decided to join up with DDY. And you can bet it will piss them off when this album outsells Cyclorama. Probably almost as much as it will piss off JY.And I will laugh and laugh and laugh and laugh....

It doesn't kill anybody that Dennis is having sales success. "Pop Muzik" and "Rock Me Amedeus" and "Oh Mickey You're So Fine" sold a butt load of records too. Doesn't mean they were brilliant. Sales doesn't necessarily equal good. Otherwise, Brittany would be a rock Goddess. .. yeah, right.
It's nice that Dennis is having good sales. Maybe if Dennis hadn't sat on his ass for the last 11 years, people would give him a bit more credit. Maybe if the truth didn't come out that he was a complete ego maniac that steered the band into crap like Mr. Roboto and First Time and actually was responsible for fracturing the band, people wouldn't be so quick to write him off. The reason there's not a unified Styx is because of Dennis and his ego. He needs a bus just to carry it around.

No, it bugs the shit out of you - you can tell just by your post.

And so you bring it back to the "Its Dennis's fault the band broke up arguement." Give me a break. It was all his fault...yeah...Tommy's penchant for nose candy and heroin didn't have anything to do with the breakup....JY's lack of an open mind to do anything beyond the straight forward 3 chord rock song...nope that wasn't the reason either...it was all Dennis..

Settle down ramjet,I think a little fresh air will do you good.Or jerk off.Or both, if you will.

...in mind. A couple of additional thoughts:

1. Passionately disagree with the "Broadway like vocals." Not even close - other tunes? Sure - This Time Next Year has a sort of "Show Tune" vibe. The majesty/operatic nature of his vocals on 100 Years From Now - absolutely (but it works PERFECTLY on this song. Freddie Mercury had a tendency to be "show-tuney" on several songs. On many of them, it worked and it works here). Not, however, this song - Dennis' shows tremendous vocal control on this song.

II. Boring? It doesn't have the epic majesty of Suite Madame Blue or the soaring victory-tinged crescendo of Come Sail Away - but it DOES match up fairly well with "Castle Walls." He shows restraint on the latter and does something similar on Rubicon. It IS a fair comparison IMHO.

III. With all of that said, the song works for me more on an "emotional" level than a "wow, this blew me away" musical level. His "mea culpa" is nice to hear and it works in this song. It's a very good, not great song - over the top criticism of it, again, is odd - it's anyone's (obviously) right to do so - but it doesn't make alot of sense IMHO. By way of comparison, only "These Are The Times" on Cyclorama approaches it in terms of being a truly introspective tune.

I think Rubicon could replace "Jennifer" on Crystal Ball, Mother Dear on Equinox, Superstars on GI, and several songs on Paradise Theatre, Cornerstone, or Kilroy and Edge and it wouldnt have had a negative impact.

I do think DDY's vocals on the song 100 years sound a bit broadway-ish. To me that is not a bad thing. Heck except for story line issues the song would fit in nicely on the soundtrack of Les Miserables !