IS CLEAN & SOBER?????

[yogi]

I am NOT an artsy person but I was wondering if once an artist gets off the substances do they become less creative???

I am NOT promoting or advocating drug and alcohol abuse, but in MANY MANY cases it seems to me once band members or an artist cleans up their act they are not near as good.


Am I WAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYY off on this one???????

[froy]

I am NOT an artsy person but I was wondering if once an artist gets off the substances do they become less creative???

I am NOT promoting or advocating drug and alcohol abuse, but in MANY MANY cases it seems to me once band members or an artist cleans up their act they are not near as good.


Am I WAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYY off on this one???????

You are right on actually
Some of my best ideas come from being in outerspace.
I think David Lee Roth said it best

You don't write great music on Milk and Cookies.

[bugsymalone]

I agree with that to an extent. I think being young and hungry, too, has a lot to do with creativity. One doesn't necessarily have to be drinking and drugging, drugging and drinking to reach a creative core.

I believe age has as much to do with becoming less creative as cleaning up does and sometimes the two go hand in hand.

That said. There are some artitsts out there who create great stuff late in life and stone cold sober.



Bugsy

[Higgy]

Roger Waters was the member of Pink Floyd NOT into hallucinagenics (that CAN'T be spelled right!). Look how much better his writing was than Gilmours!

[Zan]

Roger Waters was the member of Pink Floyd NOT into hallucinagenics (that CAN'T be spelled right!). Look how much better his writing was than Gilmours!

That's...debatable.

[styxfansite]

Roger Waters was the member of Pink Floyd NOT into hallucinagenics (that CAN'T be spelled right!). Look how much better his writing was than Gilmours!

That's...debatable.

Just to add some thoughts on the Waters and Gilmour thingy.

Roger Waters put on a great show when he did "The Wall in Berlin in 1990". Not sure what Gilmour has done such as this.

[yogi]

Froy,

What were some of your GREAT ideas????

I do know that back in the day you were big in the auto indusrty.

I did here through the grapevine that it was you that sold Volkswagon the idea of replacing The Beattle with The Rabbitt. Also, was'nt it you that told GMC to replace The Gremlin with The Pacer.

I know you always felt that The 8 Track was a hidden jewel, and Bata was better than VHS.

Do you still believe that cell phones are just a fad???

What else did you come up with 'under the influence'?????????

[styxfanNH]

Just think of the human existance. When we are children, we have all the creativity in the world. We imagine things to be there that aren't. We believe in things that aren't true like the boogie man, the tooth faity and the Easter bunny because we let our imaginations go wild. As we grow up, our perspectives change and we loose some of our creativity. And as adults, we are much more into systems and roles and have lost that youthful energy that made us so creative.

I can't imagine that artist/songwriters are any different, only they are able to hold onto those childlike feelings and thoughts and way of thinking longer than many of us.

[Higgy]

Roger Waters was the member of Pink Floyd NOT into hallucinagenics (that CAN'T be spelled right!). Look how much better his writing was than Gilmours!

That's...debatable.

hmmmmm....

pro-Tommy Shaw
pro-David Gilmour

I sense a pattern here!

I'll just put forth...
The Wall versus A Momentary Lapse Of Reason
&
Paradise Theatre versus Cyclorama

(Why do I have a feeling that there will be some "I liked Cyclorama a LOT better than Paradise Theatre" posts?)

[Zan]

I'll just put forth...
The Wall versus A Momentary Lapse Of Reason

How about The Final Cut vs. Dark Side of the Moon?

Welcome to the Machine vs. Shine on You Crazy Diamond

I'm also not only talking about the creativeness that's debatable, but the cleanliness as well.

[Higgy]

I'll just put forth...
The Wall versus A Momentary Lapse Of Reason

How about The Final Cut vs. Dark Side of the Moon?

Welcome to the Machine vs. Shine on You Crazy Diamond

I'm also not only talking about the creativeness that's debatable, but the cleanliness as well.

You aren't HONESTLY crediting Dark Side of the Moon to Gilmour are you? Why don't you look at the song writing credits. Just because he sang some of it, doesn't mean he came up with it. Oh, you should do that on the various portions of Shine On You Crazy Diamond as well. Thats kind of like me giving JY credit for Lorelei, don't you think?

But, let me clarify - I really LIKE David Gilmour. Once again, I just think - like I think about the new Styx - If you try to continue a band without its leader, you should call it something else. Its just not honest!
I will add that although The Edge writes most of the MUSIC of U2, I don't think you could call it U2 if Bono wasn't there.

And I think if you look at hair, Roger was cleaner (I wouldn't want either parking my car though! )

[rajah2165]

Roger Waters was the member of Pink Floyd NOT into hallucinagenics (that CAN'T be spelled right!). Look how much better his writing was than Gilmours!

That's...debatable.

That statement explains abouy you and your anti-DDY biases to me. Thanks for clarifying.

[Zan]

you and your anti-DDY biases...

Oh, grow the fuck up already or find some new material.

[yogi]

Lighten up Zan.

My God it's Labor Day.

This is the one day that you should try to embrace anothers point of view.

There is a website www.labordayfacts&myths.org that explains the importance of this GREAT American Holiday.

Look at fact # 9- Labor Day is a day to dig worms with family & friends.

how boudt # 2

'Build a treehouse and entertain a person with a different perspective other than yours'

I say this with respect' Zan, you need to grow up some also and embrace others.

Labor Day is a day of understanding. When you are done preparing the duck, rabbitt, or the catch of the day you need to PM rajah and apologize.

That's what this holiday is all about!!!!!

[Zan]

Thank you for sharing, Yogi.

[StyxCollector]

Personally, I don't see how someone who prefers Mr. Gilmour means that they are anti-DDY. Actually, I'd say Zan is not anti-DDY. I'd say she's pro-Glen more than anything else

[Pacfanweb]

Froy,

What were some of your GREAT ideas????

I do know that back in the day you were big in the auto indusrty.

I did here through the grapevine that it was you that sold Volkswagon the idea of replacing The Beattle with The Rabbitt. Also, was'nt it you that told GMC to replace The Gremlin with The Pacer.

I know you always felt that The 8 Track was a hidden jewel, and Bata was better than VHS.

Do you still believe that cell phones are just a fad???

What else did you come up with 'under the influence'?????????

Well, in all fairness, Beta WAS better. But since Sony was behind it, they screwed it up like everything else, so VHS won.
But yeah, Beta was better. That's why all the newscams for years were all Beta. May well still be if they aren't all digital.
Just sayin'..........

Oh, and that was AMC with the Pacer.

[squirt1]

I thought Aerosmith hit it bigger in 1988 after they were off all the whatever. I remember a concert where they banned beer. By the next time they came to town that was not the case.

[kansas666]

I'll just put forth...
The Wall versus A Momentary Lapse Of Reason
&
Paradise Theatre versus Cyclorama

Let's put this in a slightly better context. Try comparing

The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking vs. A Momentary Lapse Of Reason.

It is obvious to me that Roger Waters is the Lyricist and David Gilmour is the musician. I don't think drugs have anything to do with it.

Now when you compare Paradise Theater and cyclorama, I think Cyclorama is a superior album.

[Blue Falcon]

I thought Aerosmith hit it bigger in 1988 after they were off all the whatever. I remember a concert where they banned beer. By the next time they came to town that was not the case.

Aerosmith is one band that SHOULD have stayed on the drugs/sauce. All their music since 1987 or so has been bland corporate rock and lame ballads. OTOH, a guy like Ted Nugent has never done drugs or even drank in his entire life, so to each his own!

[bugsymalone]

Now when you compare Paradise Theater and cyclorama, I think Cyclorama is a superior album.

Ah-HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Ahem. That's funny.

Wait! You were serious ???


Bugsy

[rajah2165]

you and your anti-DDY biases...

Oh, grow the fuck up already or find some new material.

That's lovely..Thanks.

[rajah2165]

Personally, I don't see how someone who prefers Mr. Gilmour means that they are anti-DDY. Actually, I'd say Zan is not anti-DDY. I'd say she's pro-Glen more than anything else

give me a break..

[froy]

Froy,

What were some of your GREAT ideas????

Best Bid Motors
Prima Volta
VMI Music
The Anyway Video

All thought of stoned out of my mind.



What else did you come up with 'under the influence'?????????

That its not good to have concerts for people who commit suicide

[Zan]

Let's put this in a slightly better context. Try comparing

The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking vs. A Momentary Lapse Of Reason.

It is obvious to me that Roger Waters is the Lyricist and David Gilmour is the musician. I don't think drugs have anything to do with it.

Thank you, Dave. My examples could have been better, but you explained it perfectly. Lyrically, Waters is superior - one of THE best, but Gilmour is the better overall musician, IMO. I also tend to prefer his lead vocals to Waters'.

[LordofDaRing]

I think Elton John should return to his hey day of snorting, he seemed like he sang and played much better.

[Higgy]

Let's put this in a slightly better context. Try comparing

The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking vs. A Momentary Lapse Of Reason.

It is obvious to me that Roger Waters is the Lyricist and David Gilmour is the musician. I don't think drugs have anything to do with it.

Thank you, Dave. My examples could have been better, but you explained it perfectly. Lyrically, Waters is superior - one of THE best, but Gilmour is the better overall musician, IMO. I also tend to prefer his lead vocals to Waters'.

If you are going to compare Pro's and Cons, you should compare it to Gilmour's solo album, About Face. One should listen to Water's new opera Ca Ira before deciding that Gilmour is the better musician.

To Kansas666, the only album that Cyclorama is "superior" to is Momentary Lapse of Reason.

[atottobc2]

Roger Waters didn't start Pink Floyd. Syd Barrett was the man who started PF. Pink Floyd's history can be split into FIVE PERIODS.

1966-68 was The Syd Barrett era (The First Three Singles, The Piper at the Gates of Dawn)
1968-70 was The Transitional era (A Saucerful of Secrets, Last Two Non-album Singles, More, Ummagumma, Atom Heart Mother)
1971-75 was The classic Floyd era (Meddle, Obscured by Clouds, Dark Side of the Moon and Wish You Were Here)
1976-85 was The Roger Waters led band (Animals, The Wall, The Final Cut, Is There Anybody Out There)
1986-who knows is The David Gilmour era (A Momentary Lapse of Reason, Delicate Sound of Thunder, The Division Bell and PULSE)

[Higgy]

Roger Waters didn't start Pink Floyd. Syd Barrett was the man who started PF. Pink Floyd's history can be split into FIVE PERIODS.

1966-68 was The Syd Barrett era (The First Three Singles, The Piper at the Gates of Dawn)
1968-70 was The Transitional era (A Saucerful of Secrets, Last Two Non-album Singles, More, Ummagumma, Atom Heart Mother)
1971-75 was The classic Floyd era (Meddle, Obscured by Clouds, Dark Side of the Moon and Wish You Were Here)
1976-85 was The Roger Waters led band (Animals, The Wall, The Final Cut, Is There Anybody Out There)
1986-who knows is The David Gilmour era (A Momentary Lapse of Reason, Delicate Sound of Thunder, The Division Bell and PULSE)

Yeah we know. Except Barrett was only part of Pink Floyd for ONE album. (His one song recorded early in the "saucerful" sessions doesn't count. Waters led the band until he broke up the band in 1984. After that, a band calling themselves Pink Floyd emerged in 1987 to sing all of Roger Waters' songs without him.

To get this back to Styx...

I always find parallels between what happened to Roger Waters and what happened to DDY - except I think it was worse for DDY. Roger tried to break up his old band - he wasn't FIRED from is own band.

"If the band you're in starts playing different tunes, I'll see you on the Dark Side of the Moon" -Roger Waters (who wrote the lyrics AND music to that song).

[conversationpc]

I think the creativity has more to do with youth and vigor than it does with any drugs these guys might be taking. Of course, once most of these guys get off the sauce or whatever it is they're taking, they're typically older and more worn out by then, so it may appear the drugs might have been the source of whatever creativity they had.