MR

Just curious

First one is the same one now: decent keyboard player, can't sing DDY's songs well, but great on his own stuff like "Criminal Mind" or stuff off of Cyclorama. He also seems like a nice guy. Never met him.

Oh I am not going there! You do NOT want to know!


Bugsy

Liked the shit out of him.

For me, Glen, Todd and Larry were the BEST part of the 1999 & up live Styx shows.

HONEST!!!!!!

BUT is this really Styx??????

[img]http://www.styleforum.net/images/smilies/lurker[1].gif[/img]

Thenightbull wrote:Just curious

Dude, you like to stir shit up don't you?
Are you wearing your Styx 2007 shirt?

Thenightbull wrote:Just curious

No one can replace DDY in Styx but when I saw the '99 tour I was satisfied with the keyboard player they chose to take with them. I never expected him to be Dennis, I was just happy to see them play a show and to hear Man In The Wilderness, Half-Penny Two-Penny, Heavy Water, Queen of Spades. Gowan had two of the better songs on Cyclorama IMHO and if they decide to record all new material, I hope he plays a larger role. Since Glen was onboard for Cyclorama and you had to get a few of his songs in, I figure Gowan is good for at least 4 songs on any new record now.

Higgy wrote:

Thenightbull wrote:Just curious

Dude, you like to stir shit up don't you?
Are you wearing your Styx 2007 shirt?

What is wrong with the question? Is Gowan a member of Styx? Yes. Are there people out there who like Gowan as a member of Styx? Yes. Nothing wrong with the question.

Are there people out there who do not like Gowan as a member of Styx and do not like any posts that are not of the bashing/ragging on type? Yes.. all six reside on this board and it seems they can't get over the fact that others enjoy him as a member of Styx.

Get over it already.

blt man wrote:[img]http://www.styleforum.net/images/smilies/lurker[1].gif[/img]

August 1999. The show got done. I went through a LOT of trouble to be there. It worked.
I was admittedly curious about Dennis but, I had much more pressing matters to attend to.
I thought the show, overall, was FANTASTIC!! As expected.

Grotelul wrote:Are there people out there who do not like Gowan as a member of Styx and do not like any posts that are not of the bashing/ragging on type? Yes.. all six reside on this board and it seems they can't get over the fact that others enjoy him as a member of Styx.

This number seems to change a lot. But yes, I'm sure you're right. Outside of "six" people on this board, everyone else likes Gowan in Styx just as much as Dennis in Styx. Actually, most people (even more than the three people on this board) PREFER Gowan over Dennis. He's a real rocker unlike that poppy ballady shit that rock fans hate so much. Those DDY hits were flukes. "A Criminal Mind" is much better than anything DDY ever wrote.

Higgy wrote:This number seems to change a lot. But yes, I'm sure you're right. Outside of "six" people on this board, everyone else likes Gowan in Styx just as much as Dennis in Styx. Actually, most people (even more than the three people on this board) PREFER Gowan over Dennis. He's a real rocker unlike that poppy ballady shit that rock fans hate so much. Those DDY hits were flukes. "A Criminal Mind" is much better than anything DDY ever wrote.

I think the number is higher than six ... saying everyone likes Gowan as much as DDY is a very wide-sweeping generalization. No one I know personally prefers him to Dennis. For me, he gets the job done but that's about it. If they switched the singing of the DDY tunes to Tommy or JY and let him just do his tunes, it'd be much more palatable.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but he's just as showy and cheesy as Dennis (see: Polaroid, jumping off of keyboards) and to say songs like "The Best of TImes" are infinitely worse than "A Criminal Mind" (not a bad song), you're off your rocker. "The Best of Times" is far from a fluke.

StyxCollector wrote:

Higgy wrote:This number seems to change a lot. But yes, I'm sure you're right. Outside of "six" people on this board, everyone else likes Gowan in Styx just as much as Dennis in Styx. Actually, most people (even more than the three people on this board) PREFER Gowan over Dennis. He's a real rocker unlike that poppy ballady shit that rock fans hate so much. Those DDY hits were flukes. "A Criminal Mind" is much better than anything DDY ever wrote.

I think the number is higher than six ... saying everyone likes Gowan as much as DDY is a very wide-sweeping generalization. No one I know personally prefers him to Dennis. For me, he gets the job done but that's about it. If they switched the singing of the DDY tunes to Tommy or JY and let him just do his tunes, it'd be much more palatable.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but he's just as showy and cheesy as Dennis (see: Polaroid, jumping off of keyboards) and to say songs like "The Best of TImes" are infinitely worse than "A Criminal Mind" (not a bad song), you're off your rocker. "The Best of Times" is far from a fluke.

Gowan brings a different element to Styx than Dennis, not necessarily a *better* one. They are both cheesy in their own way, just one has a different style of cheesiness, and depending on your cheese preference, one is favorable to the other.

My first impression of Gowan wasn't much. I enjoyed the show enough but definitely missed Dennis. It wasn't enough to keep me away from shows, however - mainly because of the rest of the guys, and especially Glen. By the the second or thirs show, I had warmed up to Gowan, and by the 5th or 6th, I actually preferred him. It just took awhile for me to get used to him and ultimately appreciate him as a performer.

FIRST impression (on the BNW tour) was that his mannerisms on stage reminded me of Dana Carvey immitating a rock singer.
Then I heard his piano solo and was completely blown away. His voice, while not having Deyoung's bottom end that he has now,
was more like the DeYoung from the Wooden Nickel albums.

I wasn't sure about the first show. I saw them again about 2 years later. He was much more at ease and relaxed AND had the most
energy of Styx (next to Glen). He kind of came more into his own, I thought he was great and twice the keyboard player Dennis is.
Not a big deal, just as technical playing goes, Larry IS much more accomplished.

StyxCollector wrote:

Higgy wrote:This number seems to change a lot. But yes, I'm sure you're right. Outside of "six" people on this board, everyone else likes Gowan in Styx just as much as Dennis in Styx. Actually, most people (even more than the three people on this board) PREFER Gowan over Dennis. He's a real rocker unlike that poppy ballady shit that rock fans hate so much. Those DDY hits were flukes. "A Criminal Mind" is much better than anything DDY ever wrote.

I think the number is higher than six ... saying everyone likes Gowan as much as DDY is a very wide-sweeping generalization. No one I know personally prefers him to Dennis. For me, he gets the job done but that's about it. If they switched the singing of the DDY tunes to Tommy or JY and let him just do his tunes, it'd be much more palatable.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but he's just as showy and cheesy as Dennis (see: Polaroid, jumping off of keyboards) and to say songs like "The Best of TImes" are infinitely worse than "A Criminal Mind" (not a bad song), you're off your rocker. "The Best of Times" is far from a fluke.

Yeah, I need to put a big banner up on my posts that reads "SARCASM BELOW".

My first impression of Gowan was that he was a really great keyboardist with a somewhat thin, relatively weak voice who was not a very good harmony singer. His stage antics were not, and still are not, my particular cup of tea, but in the beginning it was his voice that really put me off. He simply has tuning problems, and when you're singing a chord, if one person is out, the chord is out of tune. So my first impression was that he had single-handedly destroyed the vocal blend in Styx.

Happily, since then Gowan has really learned to sing with more of an ear toward the other guys. When I saw them here in Nashville a couple of years ago, he sang way better in the blend. As a lead singer I still think he has a thin, kinda wavering voice, and he still has tremendous pitch problems as far as I'm concerned. But I will also say that "More Love For The Money" was my hands-down favorite track on CYCLO, and "Talkin' About The Good Times" is the ONLY track I like from BBT.

In the final analysis, I think Gowan is a genuine, if somewhat derivative talent. What I mean is this: when I hear Dennis, I feel like I'm hearing Dennis. When I hear Tommy, I feel like I am hearing Tommy. When I hear Glen, I feel like I'm hearing Glen. Even JY, whom I consider much more limited, when I hear him, I am hearing JY for better or worse. But when I hear Gowan, both as a songwriter and even as a keyboard player, I feel like I am hearing an amalgam of his influences. I have yet to hear him do anything that I could point to and say, "Now THAT's the real Gowan!" Even at his best, I can point to what he does and say, "That's a little bit of Queen, a little bit of the Beatles . . . " as a writer. And as a keyboardist, though he is an amazing technician, I can't escape the feeling that he is merely aping Keith Emerson. A genuine, but ultimately derivative talent.

As always, that's merely my opinion! I hope all is well.


Sterling

Zan wrote:
Gowan brings a different element to Styx than Dennis, not necessarily a *better* one. They are both cheesy in their own way, just one has a different style of cheesiness, and depending on your cheese preference, one is favorable to the other.

My first impression of Gowan wasn't much. I enjoyed the show enough but definitely missed Dennis. It wasn't enough to keep me away from shows, however - mainly because of the rest of the guys, and especially Glen. By the the second or thirs show, I had warmed up to Gowan, and by the 5th or 6th, I actually preferred him. It just took awhile for me to get used to him and ultimately appreciate him as a performer.

That's my whole point, Zan. Depending on whether you like gouda or gorgonzola, that will color your preference. Both work in different ways.

I agree with Sterling that he's grown into the job, but I definitely don't prefer him to Dennis. He's just different.

Luckily we can still see both play, so it's not really an issue

StyxCollector wrote:Luckily we can still see both play, so it's not really an issue

Welcome to the Melodic Rock board, Allan. You're obviously new around these parts.

Great keyboard player. His antics on stage are funny at first then get a bit annoying. Average singer.

I think Larry is very talented. I was unhappy the first time I saw him in Styx, but not because he was bad. I thought he did a great job with his limited vocal range. But to me, Dennis is the heart and soul of Styx. And his voice is my all time favorite in Rock with Tommy a close 2nd.

I think Tommy and JY did make the right decision picking Larry instead of some Dennis sound-a-like. That would have just been too weird!

Zan wrote:
By the the second or thirs show, I had warmed up to Gowan, and by the 5th or 6th, I actually preferred him. It just took awhile for me to get used to him and ultimately appreciate him as a performer.

Would I be wrong to say the following is the general theory on Gowan:

1) You can prefer his keyboard playing and showmanship on songs sung by Tommy and JY.
2) You can also prefer listening to Criminal Mind, Walrus, Doctor, etc. over Babe, Don’t let it End and Best of Times. Or listening to more Tommy Shaw songs over the DDY ballads.

But, do people really prefer Gowan’s renditions of Lady, CSA, Grand Illusion and the occasional SMB over the rendition sung by DDY? I presume supporters of Gowan like him for the reasons in 1 and 2 above and not because he is a killer singer of DDY's songs.

Name one song that Gowan has written that compares favorably to all the material that DDY wrote while in Styx, that adds luster to the Styx catalog instead of detracting from it.

Still thinking? That's what I thought...

Larry is a good keyboard player. But so is Igor Khoroshev from Yes, who filled in decently enough for Rick Wakeman. But any Yes fan will tell you that they would much rather have Rick on stage. But it's much different when you're talking about the singer...look at how that guy from the Buggles got treated when he replaced Yes vocalist Jon Anderson on the Drama tour back in 1980. Trevor Horn couldn't sing like Anderson, just like Larry can't sing like Dennis.

The thing is that Stynx (what I call the current Styx) has been trying to reinvent itself since 1999. Never mind that they were doing so at such an extremely late stage in their career, 27 years after their first album came out. That was hard enough, but to basically take a symbolic crap on their own heritage in the process was too much. (By this I mean all the DDY-bashing from JY, the never-ending touring, and the constant whistling-past-the-graveyard announcements from guys in the band that "this is the best lineup of Styx EVER." )

Gowan never played on any of those classic Styx albums, and hasn't written anything that comes remotely close in quality. So he brings good keyboard skills...fine, let him play keyboards and bring in a DDY clone to sing the songs as they should be sung, if DDY himself can't do it for medical reasons (or won't because of the presence of JY).

blt man wrote:But, do people really prefer Gowan’s renditions of Lady, CSA, Grand Illusion and the occasional SMB over the rendition sung by DDY? I presume supporters of Gowan like him for the reasons in 1 and 2 above and not because he is a killer singer of DDY's songs.

It's a trap! Pull the vine!

Seriously, is there any answer I can give other than "no way! DDY is the only person who should sing those songs" that wouldn't result in a flame war? (Guess we're about to find out)

Best of Times - Definitely DDY
Babe - If I have to choose, DDY, but I could never hear it again and be very ok with that
Lady - either is fine, but I am sick of it
SMB - kinda like Gowan's, as well as Queen of Spades
Grand Illusion - either is fine, but I'm also sick of it

Of course, I don't enjoy hearing ballads at a concert, so I'd be happy to stick with the harder stuff all-around.

Zan wrote:Best of Times - Definitely DDY
Babe - If I have to choose, DDY, but I could never hear it again and be very ok with that
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Maybe my previous post was not as clear as I wanted it to be. Its not whether Gowan can sing these two songs better or worse than DDY, its that people who prefer Styx with Gowan don't care to hear these songs at all (and would rather hear Gowan's own songs or more Tommy songs). I am just wondering if anyone prefers Gowan's renditions of the few DDY songs that he still sings to DDY renditions of those same songs.

Blue Falcon wrote:Name one song that Gowan has written that compares favorably to all the material that DDY wrote while in Styx, that adds luster to the Styx catalog instead of detracting from it.

Still thinking? That's what I thought...

The problem with that question is that the classic Styx catalog is so strong, nothing recent written by any of them has added lustre to it.

Criminal Mind is a good song. I am from Canada and it was a bona-fide hit when it was released. It has not added any lustre to the Styx catalog, but, from a popularity (top 40 chart) point of view in Canada, it did as well as many Styx songs.

blt man wrote:Maybe my previous post was not as clear as I wanted it to be. Its not whether Gowan can sing these two songs better or worse than DDY, its that people who prefer Styx with Gowan don't care to hear these songs at all (and would rather hear Gowan's own songs or more Tommy songs). I am just wondering if anyone prefers Gowan's renditions of the few DDY songs that he still sings to DDY renditions of those same songs.

I got that part too. He has sang BOT and Babe before. But more to the point: Yes, I prefer Gowan singing "Lady," even tho it's a cardinal sin and all. GI makes no difference which one is singing. To further the point: Yes, I would prefer not to hear any of the "usual" DDY standards at all, even though I realize that "casual fans" come for the "hits."

Blue Falcon wrote:Name one song that Gowan has written that compares favorably to all the material that DDY wrote while in Styx, that adds luster to the Styx catalog instead of detracting from it.

Still thinking? That's what I thought...

Larry is a good keyboard player. But so is Igor Khoroshev from Yes, who filled in decently enough for Rick Wakeman. But any Yes fan will tell you that they would much rather have Rick on stage. But it's much different when you're talking about the singer...look at how that guy from the Buggles got treated when he replaced Yes vocalist Jon Anderson on the Drama tour back in 1980. Trevor Horn couldn't sing like Anderson, just like Larry can't sing like Dennis.

The thing is that Stynx (what I call the current Styx) has been trying to reinvent itself since 1999. Never mind that they were doing so at such an extremely late stage in their career, 27 years after their first album came out. That was hard enough, but to basically take a symbolic crap on their own heritage in the process was too much. (By this I mean all the DDY-bashing from JY, the never-ending touring, and the constant whistling-past-the-graveyard announcements from guys in the band that "this is the best lineup of Styx EVER." )

Gowan never played on any of those classic Styx albums, and hasn't written anything that comes remotely close in quality. So he brings good keyboard skills...fine, let him play keyboards and bring in a DDY clone to sing the songs as they should be sung, if DDY himself can't do it for medical reasons (or won't because of the presence of JY).

More Love For The Money is a much better song than many that DDY has written with Styx. Better than First Time, Back To Chicago, Carrie Ann, everything off of BNW except Goodbye Roseland, High Time...shall I go on?

Blue Falcon wrote:Name one song that Gowan has written that compares favorably to all the material that DDY wrote while in Styx, that adds luster to the Styx catalog instead of detracting from it.

Still thinking? That's what I thought...

Larry is a good keyboard player. But so is Igor Khoroshev from Yes, who filled in decently enough for Rick Wakeman. But any Yes fan will tell you that they would much rather have Rick on stage. But it's much different when you're talking about the singer...look at how that guy from the Buggles got treated when he replaced Yes vocalist Jon Anderson on the Drama tour back in 1980. Trevor Horn couldn't sing like Anderson, just like Larry can't sing like Dennis.

The thing is that Stynx (what I call the current Styx) has been trying to reinvent itself since 1999. Never mind that they were doing so at such an extremely late stage in their career, 27 years after their first album came out. That was hard enough, but to basically take a symbolic crap on their own heritage in the process was too much. (By this I mean all the DDY-bashing from JY, the never-ending touring, and the constant whistling-past-the-graveyard announcements from guys in the band that "this is the best lineup of Styx EVER." )

Gowan never played on any of those classic Styx albums, and hasn't written anything that comes remotely close in quality. So he brings good keyboard skills...fine, let him play keyboards and bring in a DDY clone to sing the songs as they should be sung, if DDY himself can't do it for medical reasons (or won't because of the presence of JY).

I think you are on to something here.
Eh no.
This is the best 'live' lineup.
No Babe,here.No Dennis going on about us understanding about the Grand Illusion,No cheese .No Suzanne, who would undoubtably be in the band by now.
Stynx are doing a great service to fans in every nook and cranny in North-America.If you missed them last year,they will be back the next.They play in smaller halls and clubs or whatever.Everybody's got good seats, view .If Dennis was in the band they would be selling out giga domes and we would all have shit seats.If they would come to your town that is.
If Styx is Stynx,can I call Dennis Stinky Dinky?Thank you,I thought so.

Blue Falcon wrote:Name one song that Gowan has written that compares favorably to all the material that DDY wrote while in Styx, that adds luster to the Styx catalog instead of detracting from it.

Don't know enough of his tunes to make an blanket statement, but I will say that IMO nothing I've heard detracts. It's all pretty solid stuff. But it's kinda moot as I'm not so much a Gowan fan as a Styx fan, and I think the way he fits with the band works just fine...with the caveat that I agree they really ought to farm out some of the DDY-sung tunes to better candidates.

gr8dane wrote:If Dennis was in the band they would be selling out giga domes and we would all have shit seats.

No, they wouldn't.

Zan wrote:I got that part too. He has sang BOT and Babe before.

I heard him sing them on that Japan concert recording floating around somewhere. Surprisingly, I think his rendition of Babe was better than his rendition of BOT. It could be that I like BOT as a song a lot so I was much more critical of his rendition of this one than his take on Babe, a song which I could do without no matter who sings it.

Yogi has a point. Are they Styx? In a word? NO.

Are they fun to watch? Sure. Are they Styx? No. Sorry, but 2/5 of Styx = less than half of Styx! What if Tommy leaves and they replace him with someone else? IS it still Styx even though JY has the right to the name??? At what point does it not become Styx??

If Dennis, Tommy and JY got back together, regardless of who played drums and bass, I think it would be fair to call themselves Styx. They wrote and sang all the songs together.
But until then, I prefer to call the 2 bands "the Dennis Deyoung band" and "the Tommy/JY project".

Now back to your regularly scheduled Dennis/Larry debate.