MR

I know this is not the Journey board, and I'm not interested in a flame war, but I think it's pretty hokey to get a lead singer off of a You Tube video. I'm sure the guy is talented, but how far can this really go? What would your thoughts be if Styx replaced Dennis with a You Tube video dude? Now I know this is question that Froy et al will attack with venom, but if you can think about this somewhat objectively, what would you think? Journey is planning new material with this guy, so they obviously are excited. Journey would have a difficult time getting airplay with Steve Perry back as would Styx with Dennis. I think the chances of success for this plan is minimal. Will you go to the Def Leppard, Journey, Loverboy concert this summer?

Have you heard Arnel Pineda? Just because they heard him on Youtube doesn't take away from his talent. I mean, if you want to make comparisons with Styx's shitcanning of DDY - Styx chose a guy who couldn't sing Styx songs. Arnel has made a career of mastering Journey songs. Who made a wiser choice?
The proof will be in the proverbial pudding - ticket sales.

Higgy wrote:Have you heard Arnel Pineda? Just because they heard him on Youtube doesn't take away from his talent. I mean, if you want to make comparisons with Styx's shitcanning of DDY - Styx chose a guy who couldn't sing Styx songs. Arnel has made a career of mastering Journey songs. Who made a wiser choice?
The proof will be in the proverbial pudding - ticket sales.

I don't mean to play devil's advocate (and risk losing my DeYoungian membership) but would you rather have a guy who sounds like a clone of the former lead singer or someone who brings a different style to the table when performing someone else's music. I personally would rather have someone NOT sound like Dennis or Steve Perry because then they would be unfairly compared and dissed for just doing that. Not to mention now they'll be more like a tribute band



Robin

In about a year after Neal & Jonathan can Pineda look to them to try and sign one of the following as their new lead singer: Whitney Houston, Britney Spears, Michael Jackson, Bryan Adams, Morris Day, Bobby Brown, Leo Sayer, or Helen Reddy.

You talk about a band being a laughingstock & a TOTAL disgrace to their fans.


That is the now Journey!!!!

Higgy wrote:Have you heard Arnel Pineda? Just because they heard him on Youtube doesn't take away from his talent. I mean, if you want to make comparisons with Styx's shitcanning of DDY - Styx chose a guy who couldn't sing Styx songs. Arnel has made a career of mastering Journey songs. Who made a wiser choice?
The proof will be in the proverbial pudding - ticket sales.

No, I haven't heard Arnel, or JSS sing Journey songs. I did hear Steve Augeri and thought he did a passable job. Your point is valid, Gowan does not sound like Dennis at all. My wife refers to him as a Chipmunk. I was all prepared to not like Gowan but was blown away by his talent and stage presence. Styx records with or without Gowan would have difficulty selling, one of my original points. I think the proof will be in minimal CD sales and lackluster concert attendance for Journey, just like Styx enjoys to this day. As far as Yogi calling them a laughingstock and TOTAL disgrace, He just may have a point. I think Styx putting an artist that had success on his own account, even if it was in Canada, is a better plan.

I believe this is an example of Neil Schon being a total egomaniac and believing he can do whatever he wants regardless of the consequences. I think Journey's legacy is paying the price.

chowhall wrote:I know this is not the Journey board, and I'm not interested in a flame war, but I think it's pretty hokey to get a lead singer off of a You Tube video.

I agree. They will find a reason to dump him in a year or 2. Who's next? Max Headroom?

chowhall wrote:I know this is not the Journey board, and I'm not interested in a flame war, but I think it's pretty hokey to get a lead singer off of a You Tube video. I'm sure the guy is talented, but how far can this really go? What would your thoughts be if Styx replaced Dennis with a You Tube video dude? Now I know this is question that Froy et al will attack with venom, but if you can think about this somewhat objectively, what would you think? Journey is planning new material with this guy, so they obviously are excited. Journey would have a difficult time getting airplay with Steve Perry back as would Styx with Dennis. I think the chances of success for this plan is minimal. Will you go to the Def Leppard, Journey, Loverboy concert this summer?

Guess they saved themselves from going through a lot of auditions.
Frankly, I wish they would get Rolie back,since the first 3 albums of Journey's are my favorites.

kansas666 wrote:

chowhall wrote:I know this is not the Journey board, and I'm not interested in a flame war, but I think it's pretty hokey to get a lead singer off of a You Tube video.

I agree. They will find a reason to dump him in a year or 2. Who's next? Max Headroom?

I am surpised their Drummer isn't singing for them. He sounds amazing during sound checks.

Also, I agree that, in Styx case, having a guy that doesn't sound like Dennis was a great idea. If they would have gotten the guy from "Perfect Man" (is that the name of the movie?) I don't think we'd be getting any live Styx these days, Dennis or otherwise.

chowhall wrote:Will you go to the Def Leppard, Journey, Loverboy concert this summer?

Hopefully this is a dig at the fact that a lot of bands have been doing package tours...Journey and Leppard toured together in 2006, and I would hope that they wouldn't tour together again. Not that I don't like Def Leppard (I'm a huge fan of theirs), I just don't want to see Journey and Leppard share the stage again.

Or do you know something that I don't...

I have seen the Arnel YouTube spots and he is good. Whether that will translate to renewed success for Journey, -- too soon to tell.

I find the comparisons not particularly good ones regarding Journey and Styx and their lead singer changes. Current Styx chose the best they could under the circumstances (marginal singer, decent keyboard player) and have remained very stable for a long time now. Journey has rolled through several changes and are doing it yet again. And they were replacing a singer only. Not a singer/musician.

I think both groups, however, realize the money is in the touring, not in any new material they choose to try to sell. Both the current incarnations of Styx and Journey, I feel, will do just fine on the tour circuit and make plenty of money because many concert attendees are buying the name and not the personnel.

Only the diehard fans may find fault with the lineups onstage. Casual ticket buyers, or those who buy a ticket for a headline act that will be supported by Current Styx or New Journey, probably won't notice much of anything as long as the bands play the songs with which they are familiar and they get a good time for their money.


Bugsy

bugsymalone wrote:I have seen the Arnel YouTube spots and he is good. Whether that will translate to renewed success for Journey, -- too soon to tell.

I find the comparisons not particularly good ones regarding Journey and Styx and their lead singer changes. Current Styx chose the best they could under the circumstances (marginal singer, decent keyboard player) and have remained very stable for a long time now. Journey has rolled through several changes and are doing it yet again. And they were replacing a singer only. Not a singer/musician.

I think both groups, however, realize the money is in the touring, not in any new material they choose to try to sell. Both the current incarnations of Styx and Journey, I feel, will do just fine on the tour circuit and make plenty of money because many concert attendees are buying the name and not the personnel.

Only the diehard fans may find fault with the lineups onstage. Casual ticket buyers, or those who buy a ticket for a headline act that will be supported by Current Styx or New Journey, probably won't notice much of anything as long as the bands play the songs with which they are familiar and they get a good time for their money.


Bugsy

Well as I said before, having been to a few shows from 1999 and on, most casual fans think that the curent keyboard player, marginal talent that he is, is Dennis. Haven't heard any complaints other than, "why didn't they play Babe?"

fightingilliniJRNY wrote:

chowhall wrote:Will you go to the Def Leppard, Journey, Loverboy concert this summer?

Hopefully this is a dig at the fact that a lot of bands have been doing package tours...Journey and Leppard toured together in 2006, and I would hope that they wouldn't tour together again. Not that I don't like Def Leppard (I'm a huge fan of theirs), I just don't want to see Journey and Leppard share the stage again.

Or do you know something that I don't...

No, there is a quote saying Journey will be touring this summer with 2 other bands and I have heard Def Leppard as one of the possibilities. It's not a dig at any of the bands. There probably aren't 15 bands that could fill a stadium on their own now. I've got tired of hearing the same old set from current Styx. I'm sure I'd probably go to a show to see what was different, if they changed a major player. Will you go to see Journey with its current lineup?

chowhall wrote:

fightingilliniJRNY wrote:

chowhall wrote:Will you go to the Def Leppard, Journey, Loverboy concert this summer?

Hopefully this is a dig at the fact that a lot of bands have been doing package tours...Journey and Leppard toured together in 2006, and I would hope that they wouldn't tour together again. Not that I don't like Def Leppard (I'm a huge fan of theirs), I just don't want to see Journey and Leppard share the stage again.

Or do you know something that I don't...

No, there is a quote saying Journey will be touring this summer with 2 other bands and I have heard Def Leppard as one of the possibilities. It's not a dig at any of the bands. There probably aren't 15 bands that could fill a stadium on their own now. I've got tired of hearing the same old set from current Styx. I'm sure I'd probably go to a show to see what was different, if they changed a major player. Will you go to see Journey with its current lineup?

I'll go to a show. The way I see it, I gave Augeri a chance, gave Soto a chance, so I'm at least going to give Arnel a chance. I'm not going to pass judgement before I hear a NEW song with him or see a show with him.

And I've heard Def Lep as a touring possibility, too, but I think that might be more of a joke. I would say there's no way Def Leppard and Journey will tour together again. Loverboy, however, I would say is not a bad idea. They have a new album out (which I love, by the way), and they could fill the role of one of the opening bands very well. I hadn't thought of them before...

chowhall wrote:I know this is not the Journey board, and I'm not interested in a flame war, but I think it's pretty hokey to get a lead singer off of a You Tube video. I'm sure the guy is talented, but how far can this really go? What would your thoughts be if Styx replaced Dennis with a You Tube video dude? Now I know this is question that Froy et al will attack with venom, but if you can think about this somewhat objectively, what would you think? Journey is planning new material with this guy, so they obviously are excited. Journey would have a difficult time getting airplay with Steve Perry back as would Styx with Dennis. I think the chances of success for this plan is minimal. Will you go to the Def Leppard, Journey, Loverboy concert this summer?

it's a good way to find someone I think...
Perry was a guy cleaning out Turkey coops.
Augeri worked at the gap.
Rod Stewart was a grave digger.
Dennis Deyoung was a teacher.


I don't think it matters much how they found him as long as they did. The guy's gotta great voice.

Current Styx chose the best they could under the circumstances (marginal singer, decent keyboard player)

Are you kidding me? Gowan is Classically trained, and more skilled than Dennis at the keyboards. I am a HUGE Dennis fan, but as a degreed Music Performance major, I can speak objectively about this. The smart thing that Styx did was to get seasoned musicians to replace the people that left. Ricky Phillips is much better musically than Chuck or Glen was on the bass. Hell - I feel sorry for the guy - as Styx's bass lines are quite simple, and quite frankly he looks bored sometimes on stage. This guy has played with some of the best guitarist's ever - and now he's covering Chuck's bass lines. Same with Gowan - I think the reason he does half of the goofing around (playing backwards, et al) are because, quite frankly, the keyboard parts are easy for him.

Again - I dig Dennis - and prefer his VOICE to Gowan's - but come on - as a musician he is better by far.

I Stumble In wrote:I think the reason he does half of the goofing around (playing backwards, et al) are because, quite frankly, the keyboard parts are easy for him.

Again - I dig Dennis - and prefer his VOICE to Gowan's - but come on - as a musician he is better by far.

Yeah - Good luck with that!

Logic has no part in this conversation...

I Stumble In wrote:

Current Styx chose the best they could under the circumstances (marginal singer, decent keyboard player)

Are you kidding me? Gowan is Classically trained, and more skilled than Dennis at the keyboards. I am a HUGE Dennis fan, but as a degreed Music Performance major, I can speak objectively about this. The smart thing that Styx did was to get seasoned musicians to replace the people that left. Ricky Phillips is much better musically than Chuck or Glen was on the bass. Hell - I feel sorry for the guy - as Styx's bass lines are quite simple, and quite frankly he looks bored sometimes on stage. This guy has played with some of the best guitarist's ever - and now he's covering Chuck's bass lines. Same with Gowan - I think the reason he does half of the goofing around (playing backwards, et al) are because, quite frankly, the keyboard parts are easy for him.

Again - I dig Dennis - and prefer his VOICE to Gowan's - but come on - as a musician he is better by far.

Uhm.......I was being sarcastic. Don't get me wrong I am a DDY fan, but Gowan is a killer keyboard player no comparison. And, I agree that Ricky is more accomplished that Chuck, but, do not underestimate Glen's capabilities, espeically as a musician.

Again - I dig Dennis - and prefer his VOICE to Gowan's - but come on - as a musician he is better by far.

I really wasn't dissing his keyboard talents. Honest!! Anything, and everything Gowan just falls into the "Who Cares" category for me. It has nothing to do with his musical ability.



Bugsy

elmotano wrote:but, do not underestimate Glen's capabilities, espeically as a musician.

HEAR! HEAR!!

Zan wrote:

elmotano wrote:but, do not underestimate Glen's capabilities, espeically as a musician.

HEAR! HEAR!!

obviously you are cheering my stellar tyoing and spelling skillz

Except when he is destroying "Fooling Yourself".

Styx' Strength has always been the powerful vocals. Dennis' and Tommy's lead vocals and JY's, Dennis' and Tommy's background vocals.
I think that is what helped them sell all those albums. Lawrence is fun to watch, and he is a great musician, but I really miss the tight harmonies. When Glen was in the band with Lawrence, it helped make up quite a bit on the harmonies, because Glen is awesome.
But you cannot replace Dennis' lead vocals. Or his great harmonizing. And that is what Styx always was about to me.

cittadeeno23 wrote:Except when he is destroying "Fooling Yourself".

Styx' Strength has always been the powerful vocals. Dennis' and Tommy's lead vocals and JY's, Dennis' and Tommy's background vocals.
I think that is what helped them sell all those albums. Lawrence is fun to watch, and he is a great musician, but I really miss the tight harmonies. When Glen was in the band with Lawrence, it helped make up quite a bit on the harmonies, because Glen is awesome.
But you cannot replace Dennis' lead vocals. Or his great harmonizing. And that is what Styx always was about to me.

I guess, the shows I have been at are so loud, I don't hear that. I mean yes DDY adds to the mix, no doubt, no one can ever say anything about his voice, but so far Gowan has been more than fine. It did take getting used to hearing him sing DDY songs, but, with that in mind, I don't think he is bad at all. And, I really felt he brought something to the table on Cyclorama

I get sick of everyone ripping on DDY's keyboard abilities. By his own admission, he is no Rick Wakeman. What makes him so good is his very unique style. Dennis is not technically the greatest keyboardist in the world - but he certainly has his own style which makes for some great music (I think 'Crossing The Rubicon' and the keyboards at the end of Pieces of 8 are the best examples of this).

I mean Steve Vai is a much better guitarist than The Edge. But the Edge is a hell of a lot more fun to listen to!

As for Gowan - I agree with Bugsy - it all resides in the 'who gives a shit' file for me.

Higgy wrote:I get sick of everyone ripping on DDY's keyboard abilities. By his own admission, he is no Rick Wakeman. What makes him so good is his very unique style. Dennis is not technically the greatest keyboardist in the world - but he certainly has his own style which makes for some great music (I think 'Crossing The Rubicon' and the keyboards at the end of Pieces of 8 are the best examples of this).

I mean Steve Vai is a much better guitarist than The Edge. But the Edge is a hell of a lot more fun to listen to!

As for Gowan - I agree with Bugsy - it all resides in the 'who gives a shit' file for me.

evidently you do give a shit or you would not have replied
As for DDY and his keybaord skills, I am not dissing them, I love the man's music, but, Gowan is clearly a more accomplished keyboard player, like it or not. It just is what it is.

i don't see anybody "ripping into " dennis' keyboard abilities. they are just supporting the fact that gowan is more than just a "decent" keyboardist, as well as glen being a much stronger asset to the band than given credit for.

stmonkeys wrote:i don't see anybody "ripping into " dennis' keyboard abilities. they are just supporting the fact that gowan is more than just a "decent" keyboardist, as well as glen being a much stronger asset to the band than given credit for.

well said! now where are the f'n cowbells?????

i gotcha cowbells right here.....

Dennis is a great keyboard player for one reason: He comes up with great parts that fit perfectly into great songs. Every member of Styx is a great musician for this very reason.

JY isn't the most technically gifted player but the solo for Renegade gives me chills. Let's not forget the solo after he says "Check this out" in Midnight Ride.

Tommy comes up with great parts whether they be acoustic or electric. He can play great fingerstyle guitar ala Crystal Ball, play a great mandolin in Boat On the River, and then kill on the slide solo in Shooz.

Chuck and John both played great parts. Chuck's bass are usually understated but fit perfectly with Johns rhythms. John floored me with the intricate way he could play on the ride and hi-hat cymbals.

I could have numerous examples for all of the above. Styx is greater than the sum of its parts but the parts, in my opinion, are extremely underrated as musicians.

A musician can have all the technical ability in the world but if they can't come up with a good part they really aren't very good.

Higgy wrote:I get sick of everyone ripping on DDY's keyboard abilities. By his own admission, he is no Rick Wakeman. What makes him so good is his very unique style. Dennis is not technically the greatest keyboardist in the world - but he certainly has his own style which makes for some great music (I think 'Crossing The Rubicon' and the keyboards at the end of Pieces of 8 are the best examples of this).

I mean Steve Vai is a much better guitarist than The Edge. But the Edge is a hell of a lot more fun to listen to!

As for Gowan - I agree with Bugsy - it all resides in the 'who gives a shit' file for me.

The keys on Castle Walls are my favorite-ERIC