OT- Gas prices, when will they level out ?

[classicstyxfan]

I'm starting to hear some very frightening speculation in the media. On the radio en route to work, they pointed out that the price for a barrell of crude oil was well under $100 when the year began......today it closed out at $123.00. They were discussing the possibility of $200.00/barrel before the end of the decade.

If $123 = $3.75 per gallon gasoline, what wiil the price be if we hit 200 ? the number they were throwing around was $7.00 per gallon.

If that happens, I believe travel other than to and from work will truly become a luxury few will be able to afford.

someone please talk me down from the ledge of my metaphoric tall building !!!!!

[sadie65]

I work in the automotive industry. I'll attest it is not a good time for the industry. I am caught in the housing market nightmare as well. Without trying to go too political here, I do believe many Americans are still not honestly aware of the repercussions for decisions made today in their futures.

I think of generations past and realize though that each generation at some point in their lives is faced with what seems a terrible future. And some weather it better than others. I hope for all here that is the case.

Whatever the reason(s) for the oil price increase I can only hope those who are reckless come to realize the folly in it, and those who are caught "in the crossfire" can maintain.

Peace to all (and get down off the ledge Classic...assuming you have a fear of heights ).

[yogi]

Why has the GEO Metro ( 3 cylinder ) car ( or something similiar) not re emerged?? I drove one for years without ANY problems. When I traded it in it had 140,000 + miles.

I would get 40+ in town and 50 -55 miles per gallon on the highway. It had better mileage than the hybrids do now.

I TRULY am mystified by this?????

Sadie, if you are in the auto industry explain this to me.

[bugsymalone]

Why has the GEO Metro ( 3 cylinder ) car ( or something similiar) not re emerged?? I drove one for years without ANY problems. When I traded it in it had 140,000 + miles.

I would get 40+ in town and 50 -55 miles per gallon on the highway. It had better mileage than the hybrids do now.

I TRULY am mystified by this?????

Sadie, if you are in the auto industry explain this to me.

Yogi. There are plenty of those types of cars out there. Cost a bit more than a Geo, though. The hybrids are getting the most attention right now, but they get high mileage.

The biggest problem is, as a country (blame whom you want) we simply have not had the impetus to get after alternative ways to produce efficient energy. So now we are behind the eight ball. (Oil will always be cheap! It will never run out!)

There are engines that run on water, but, right now, they cost a fortune and are not feasible to use in vehicles now, be they planes, trains or automobiles.

I could go on and on, but I won't.

There are quite a few high mileage vehicles out there to buy, though. They might get crushed in a sea of SUV's, but they exist and I bet the market will increase for them, just as in the 70's you had the VW Rabbits and the Metros, etc.

(PS. Remember when diesel was the answer??? LOL! THOSE were the days!!)

Bugsy

[yogi]

So there are 3 cylinder cars out there??

Name them please.

The Metro was not a hybrid and got 50 plus miles per gallon. Now the only way it seems that a car gets that much ( if that) is when the hybird switches from gas operated to the battery.

I would think that a 3 cylinder hybrid car( with a charegeable battery) could achieve 80+ miles per gallon.


Am I right or wrong? We obviously already have the Metro technology are we using it????

[bugsymalone]

I would think that a 3 cylinder hybrid car( with a charegeable battery) could achieve 80+ miles per gallon.

Of course that is possible, but we are still talking gasoline engines here. If they are going to put money into production of the 2000's version of a 3-cylinder car, they need to concentrate on cars that rely less on gasoline (or diesel) and more on other types of fuel systems or technologies. My view, at least. It is time to reinvent the wheel. Or, specifically, what runs those wheels.

Looks like, right now, the best one can do is a 4-cylinder hybrid which seems to get around 45mpg tops.


Bugsy

[sadie65]

I can tell you that several options are being looked at by auto manufacturers, however unfortunately there is not enough incentive for them from the public as yet. It is a short sighted stance. I do not work directly for automotive manufacturers, however my company supplies several of them. There is a growing understanding that making a car more upscale is not necessarily going to generate more sales anymore. But I can also say with certainty if the public doesn't become less concerned with flash over substance hybrids will not take hold as quickly as they ought to.

[brywool]

I encourage you all to watch "Who Killed The Electric Car?"

It will, or should, piss you off.

There was an electric car that wasn't your typical toaster on wheels. They were actually NORMAL looking cars that ran, I believe, up to 70 mph. In the 90s, Gibson, Hanks, and other prominent people were driving them, as were normal everydayers. A few hundred folks were leasing them. All ,or nearly all, that leased them LOVED them. However, the oil lobbiests freaked out and so the auto company rounded up ALL of the cars (even though most of the owners wanted to buy them at lease end) and they destroyed every last one of them. They wouldn't let ANY of them be around, even for auto museum pieces. There were protests, etc. and what it came down to was that Oil lost, so the world lost.

We will NEVER be off of oil until it runs out. The powers that be won't let it happen. There's too much money, blood, and whatever else tied to big oil.

http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car/70052424?lnkctr=srchrd-sr&strkid=32899574_0_0

[yogi]

So 15+ years ago when there was not a fuel crisis we had a VERY VERY good selling car that was VERY reliable and got 50 miles + to the gallon. It was a 3 cylinder car, that actually was soooooo popular 3 to 5 years after it came off the assembly line they even made one that was a convertable.

After about 6-8 years of being one of GM's best selling vehicles( GM & Suziki) the SUV craze hits America, and GM who was basically saved by their GEO brand stops production of the Metro, Storm, Prizm & Tracker.

Now we have a MAJOR MAJOR fuel shortage, why in the HELL is this car NOT back on the market now??? We obviously have the technology to build it. Did the blueprints to this secret car get lost or burned up??

The best we have now is a 4 cylinder hybrid that doesnt even get near the mileage as the Metro did.

Why not make a 3 cylinder hybrid???? Do we NOT want 85 miles to the gallon.

Why not get this car on the market now and then work on our water or sand driven vehicle why this car is being driven. I could live with 80 miles to the gallon while I wait for something better to come along.

I have an answer.

Exxon/ Mobile dont want it, Shell Oil dont want it.

This is one GIANT scam!!!!!

Guess what????

I'm a rebublician

[brywool]

YUP. Scam indeed. The oil companies are making their hugest profits EVER. Why would they want to knock gas back down to 2.00?

[bugsymalone]

Yogs! Did you not learn anything from the inspiration for DDY's Mr. Roboto??!! You don't just "make" the car again. Likely you are right. The "blueprints" have long since been trashed.

All cars are made mostly by robots and parts made in Japan (OK, China). Everything in a plant would have to be re-created, and re-calibrated, at great expense, to make those kinds of cars again. It is just not going to happen, but I do think there will be a push to put out more fuel efficient autos.

The days of the SUV are numbered. Well, as long as gas goes up and up and up. If it ever goes back down, American will heave a sigh of relief and order a new Suburban.

Brywool: I need to rent that doc. I have heard/read much about it and it made me mad just to read the summary of it.

The bottom line is $$. Or, in the case of Big Oil, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. (Was that enough? Maybe I need to add a few more. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$)

Bugsy

[Zan]

Yogi, this is something you & I can definitely agree on! My husband drove a Metro years ago and says it got almost as good mileage as his motorcycles get - I once drive a Mitsubishi Mirage that got about 32 mpg. I drive a 2.5 liter 4 cyclinder now, but it's *almost* paid off, so I'm in it for the longest haul possible given the condition of things at the moment. These hybrid cars are a pitiful "solution," and they cost a small fortune! The oil companies think we're stupid, and the government co-signs all their bullshit. Even if they gave us the credit we deserve, they still know that we're at their mercy. Meanwhile, the American dollar is at an all-time low with no increase in sight. Scary times...scary times.

Currently, Mr. Zan's been working on a couple projects for renewable fuels, which would make biodiesel suitable for operating cars and machinery. He's got some great ideas, but given the current state of the government (with greed of the lobbyists being the driving factor), I tend to fear it'll get about as far as his cancer & HIV drugs have. But I digress. Let me get my flag out and wave frantically.

[yogi]

If we( US Government, Auto Industry) wanted to, a Metro or a 3 cylinder car just like it could be off the assembly line and into the showrooms in under a month.

It pisses me off soooooo damn much. I drive over 100 miles per day. It is a joke.


Get the 3 cylinder out on the market NOW!!!!!! Then in 4 to 6 months get the 3 cylinder hybrid out.

I am getting 31 miles per gallon now with a Camry but I need 50 - 80 miles per gallon. Its there we just dont want to build the damn thing.

Then later on techonically can produce vechicles that run on Whale vomit, former Journey singers or whatever the hell the auto industry wants to come up with.

To say we couldnt get a 3 cylinder out on the market by 2009 is a crock of shi t. We could get it out by the 4th of July if the industry wanted to.

I caNT stand Michael Moore but he is 100% correct about it ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL being driven by Oil!!!

[bugsymalone]

To say we couldnt get a 3 cylinder out on the market by 2009 is a crock of shi t. We could get it out by the 4th of July if the industry wanted to.

Of course the COULD, but would is another story. If they put the money in setting up to make a 3 cylinder Retro Metro and could see a profit in doing so, then they might do it. Everything changed when gas became cheap again and the SUV began to dominate the market.

I think the car companies are going to start putting out gas savers, but what type, and how, is the mystery. It will probably not be American car companies, though.

Hmmm.....the Chrysler Whale Vomit 2010. Has a ring to it, yes it does.

Bugsy

[brywool]

Yogs! Did you not learn anything from the inspiration for DDY's Mr. Roboto??!! You don't just "make" the car again. Likely you are right. The "blueprints" have long since been trashed.

All cars are made mostly by robots and parts made in Japan (OK, China). Everything in a plant would have to be re-created, and re-calibrated, at great expense, to make those kinds of cars again. It is just not going to happen, but I do think there will be a push to put out more fuel efficient autos.

The days of the SUV are numbered. Well, as long as gas goes up and up and up. If it ever goes back down, American will heave a sigh of relief and order a new Suburban.

Brywool: I need to rent that doc. I have heard/read much about it and it made me mad just to read the summary of it.

The bottom line is $$. Or, in the case of Big Oil, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. (Was that enough? Maybe I need to add a few more. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$)

Bugsy

Yeah, I see all these public figures going on about 'green this' and 'green that'- In the words of Dennis DeYoung: "That's all Bull Shit!"

Our country, The Middle East and apparently nobody else wants to REALLY fix this problem. If it gets fixed, billions of dollars go away. So rather than empty corporate pockets, we'll just wait till the World can't handle it anymore. More immediate- the middle class and America's economy (and many others) are poised for a long drop.

[epresley]

Our government is run by BIG OIL. They call the shots. As long as they do, the technology that is available to make cars that get 50-80 mpg will be shelved. It's a scam, you know it, I know it. WE THE PEOPLE have to make it change.

[pinkfloyd1973]

[DerriD]

Yogi,

Don't forget about the Honda Civic CRX from the 1980's. Those cars were even more reliable than the Geo Metro (and they had the Honda name on them) and got nearly SIXTY miles to the gallon. NOT a hybrid!!

I am told that cars today have so many features on them that cars didn't have 20 years ago that they are considerably heavier. I SERIOUSLY doubt that.

How hard would it be to bring back the CRX?

My wife has a Yukon and gas is a killer with that thing. When the Toyota Yaris came out, I bought one immediately. GREAT BUY! It actually is a nice car and cheap too. Best thing is it gets upwards of 45 mph on the highway.

I will most certainly get a motorcycle to commute when the weather allows and let my wife drive the Yaris on those days. I still like the Yukon as a vehicle, but it will be a 'special occasion' car.

I've also got a Honda S2000 and even it gets decent mileage compared to most cars. Downer is I have to put premium in it. Thank God it's not a Diesel.

[RedWingFan]

Our government is run by BIG OIL. They call the shots.

Um..If government is run by "BIG OIL" why did our elected dolts subsidize farmers to grow corn to BURN IT?
Which has caused the price of food to also increase, causing food riots in other countries. Now to deal with the food crisis they created, they're looking at sending billions of our money in aide to fight it. Another bang up job. Oooh I can't wait til they get complete control of my health care.
Ronald Reagan was right when he said, "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"

[piecesofeight]

Yogi,

Don't forget about the Honda Civic CRX from the 1980's. Those cars were even more reliable than the Geo Metro (and they had the Honda name on them) and got nearly SIXTY miles to the gallon. NOT a hybrid!!

I am so glad I kept my 1991 Honda Civic..runs great still..great on gas..have never had any real problems with it..use it just as a work car now..but could be used for more..it's nice using this car for work because I really don't care if it's get dinged or anything..even though it's in pretty good shape..but wow..so great still on gas..it has like 180,000 and still runs great without any major work ever..really just like tires..breaks..exhaust..I spend a bit under $20 a week on gas for this car..

Our 2001 Ford Taurus does well on gas too..so glad now we bought that instead of the SUV.. because of gas cost..the Taurus is a great car..no major trouble with it yet (although we only have 30,000 on it) ecxept some air conditioning that was covered..
The Taurus' after 2000 are great all around cars for many reasons..

[sadie65]

Yogs! Did you not learn anything from the inspiration for DDY's Mr. Roboto??!! You don't just "make" the car again. Likely you are right. The "blueprints" have long since been trashed.

All cars are made mostly by robots and parts made in Japan (OK, China). Everything in a plant would have to be re-created, and re-calibrated, at great expense, to make those kinds of cars again. It is just not going to happen, but I do think there will be a push to put out more fuel efficient autos.

The days of the SUV are numbered. Well, as long as gas goes up and up and up. If it ever goes back down, American will heave a sigh of relief and order a new Suburban.

Brywool: I need to rent that doc. I have heard/read much about it and it made me mad just to read the summary of it.

The bottom line is $$. Or, in the case of Big Oil, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. (Was that enough? Maybe I need to add a few more. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$)

Bugsy

Ah but then...trust me when I tell you that there are more SUV's planned...in various sizes. There is a new Toyota plant being built in Mississippi as I type. There are plans to expand several others. There is a cross pollination plant in the burbs of San Francisco that builds both Toyota and GM autos. For every hybrid built there are still 7 SUV's built. You'd be amazed how many auto plants there are world wide...and just how many still reside right here. Who owns them...another matter all together.

Certainly there are alternatives...and no...those blueprints are not burned. It's just that the public allows themselves to think they are never going to be available. We are required to supply service parts for 15 years. When you factor in model year changes...that's a tremendous amount of parts that are required. All slightly different.

It's not an industry for the weak at heart. Nor is it one where the good of the community is thought of. For every alternative and good pr that is done...there is yet another SUV with a dvd player and heated seats...etc. etc. etc. When we decide that that isn't cool or necessary. When we stop thinking that driving the latest model SUV then just maybe. But I wouldn't hold my breath. We like our luxuries.

I have to track autos built each month. And how many sold. And option percentages. The trend towards frivolous...still there. Big time. And my little economy car keeps rolling along.

[classicstyxfan]

on the other hand, the GM plant up here in Janesville, WI that builds SUV's laid off an entire shift of workers ...750 in total, due to slow sales of the vehicles they make. I see 3-4 with for sale signs in the window on my drive to work every day........no takers evidently.

Wouldnt it be great if we cut our demand for gasoline by 15 or 20 percent ? Im not sure it would bring prices down, but it would be a nice statement to the rest of the world.

[styxfansite]

Yogs! Did you not learn anything from the inspiration for DDY's Mr. Roboto??!! You don't just "make" the car again. Likely you are right. The "blueprints" have long since been trashed.

All cars are made mostly by robots and parts made in Japan (OK, China). Everything in a plant would have to be re-created, and re-calibrated, at great expense, to make those kinds of cars again. It is just not going to happen, but I do think there will be a push to put out more fuel efficient autos.

The days of the SUV are numbered. Well, as long as gas goes up and up and up. If it ever goes back down, American will heave a sigh of relief and order a new Suburban.

Brywool: I need to rent that doc. I have heard/read much about it and it made me mad just to read the summary of it.

The bottom line is $$. Or, in the case of Big Oil, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. (Was that enough? Maybe I need to add a few more. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$)

Bugsy

Ah but then...trust me when I tell you that there are more SUV's planned...in various sizes. There is a new Toyota plant being built in Mississippi as I type. There are plans to expand several others. There is a cross pollination plant in the burbs of San Francisco that builds both Toyota and GM autos. For every hybrid built there are still 7 SUV's built. You'd be amazed how many auto plants there are world wide...and just how many still reside right here. Who owns them...another matter all together.

Certainly there are alternatives...and no...those blueprints are not burned. It's just that the public allows themselves to think they are never going to be available. We are required to supply service parts for 15 years. When you factor in model year changes...that's a tremendous amount of parts that are required. All slightly different.

It's not an industry for the weak at heart. Nor is it one where the good of the community is thought of. For every alternative and good pr that is done...there is yet another SUV with a dvd player and heated seats...etc. etc. etc. When we decide that that isn't cool or necessary. When we stop thinking that driving the latest model SUV then just maybe. But I wouldn't hold my breath. We like our luxuries.

I have to track autos built each month. And how many sold. And option percentages. The trend towards frivolous...still there. Big time. And my little economy car keeps rolling along.

There are also talks of a new Daimler Chrysler plant here in Georgia.

[sadie65]

on the other hand, the GM plant up here in Janesville, WI that builds SUV's laid off an entire shift of workers ...750 in total, due to slow sales of the vehicles they make. I see 3-4 with for sale signs in the window on my drive to work every day........no takers evidently.

Wouldnt it be great if we cut our demand for gasoline by 15 or 20 percent ? Im not sure it would bring prices down, but it would be a nice statement to the rest of the world.

And that would also have a great deal to do with the fact that the same autos that Janesville produces are produced in Arlington, Texas, and Silao, Mexico. I know...because I talk with the same Janesville plant you are referring to on a daily basis. That and the fact that their facility cannot keep up with the insane amount of autos that GM plans for. I can tell you that there has been a strike that is now in week 11 for GM axle manufacturing. Were GM to have planned their inventory correctly the strike would have impacted them much quicker. Instead, they are bailing out the axle manufacturer...200 million dollars. Janesville has an uphill battle to stay in business. It is quite the shame for the workers there. I sincerely mean that.

There is a great deal more at play here. and myopia reigns supreme.

[Zan]

When the Toyota Yaris came out, I bought one immediately. GREAT BUY! It actually is a nice car and cheap too. Best thing is it gets upwards of 45 mph on the highway.

Derri,

Mr. Zan wants to know what size your engine is and what kinda horsepower it's packing (I'm not making this up). He has never felt the Yaris was a good buy and is genuinely curious about what drives your enthusiasm for it.

[DerriD]

Zan,

If Mr. Zan is curious, PM me.

Derri

[Rockwriter]

When the Toyota Yaris came out, I bought one immediately. GREAT BUY! It actually is a nice car and cheap too. Best thing is it gets upwards of 45 mph on the highway.

Derri,

Mr. Zan wants to know what size your engine is and what kinda horsepower it's packing (I'm not making this up). He has never felt the Yaris was a good buy and is genuinely curious about what drives your enthusiasm for it.

If I may jump in - I am auto ignorant and, embarrassingly, don't know the specs of my own car, but I also own a Yaris and I absolutely love it! It has every bit as much pickup as any other economy car I've ever owned (and I have never owned anything else), and it actually drives fairly sporty, believe it or not. Great car, great price. Now, if you're hung up on amenities it might not be the car for you, but even though it's tiny outside, the interior space is planned so well that it's actually roomier than my Prizm was. Go take a test drive and you'll see what I mean.

Hope all is well.


Sterling

[styxfanNH]

An upside benefit of higher oil/gas prices, is that the US is now starting to look at alternative energy sources. Not Congress, but the public at large. Until now there just wasn't a financial reason to start going green. And we all know the American consumer reacts most when it hits the wallet or pocket book. With the high price of energy came the ability to offset the financial cost of being green over it's the right thing to do.

Energy efficient light bulbs are being recognized for their long term cast savings, more than for their more friendly use of natural resources. Bio-diesal is getting a stronger footprint, and solar and wind power are being looked at as viable alternatives.

The only hope is that as the public becomes more accustomed to looking at these alternatives, that they stick with them if the price of oil drops. If they don't, it could mean we set up ourselves for things like this in the future.

[classicstyxfan]

I dont really see the price of oil going back down......The law of Supply and Demand is in play. India and China are sending worldwide demand up up up , and the supply of fossil fuels is diminishing at an accelerated rate.

Somethings got to give............It could be the reason for World War III. With our military in the shape it's in after 5+ years in Iraq and Afghanistan, we dont have the advantage militarily we once had....except for our stockpile of Nukes. : I feel sorry for whoever wins the election, theirs will be one tough job.

[styxfanNH]

Oil is about 30% overvalued because of the speculators. Other countries including China and India are certainly increasing there energy uses as they industrialize there country. Ironically, as we produce less and less here in the United States, you would think our consumption would decrease.

China spent the last 10 years or so building Three Rivers Dam. IT produces 1/9th of the electrical needs of the country. Of course, they displaced a bunch of their people and burried centuries of history. But that is what happened in providing for the countries' future. That will never happen here. Not with NIMBY principle strongly in effect.