The other side of the coin.

[Hippie]

So much venom has been spewed about Gowen "daring" to do DeYoung songs.

Very rarely have I seen mention of the 91 tour (when the shoe was on the other foot).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YBaKIVODdY&feature=related

To be fair, Burtnik did a good job with the song.

[bugsymalone]

So much venom has been spewed about Gowen "daring" to do DeYoung songs.

Very rarely have I seen mention of the 91 tour (when the shoe was on the other foot).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YBaKIVODdY&feature=related

To be fair, Burtnik did a good job with the song.

Ah, but all parties were agreeable to this. And, besides, Glen can actually sing.


Bugsy

[Zan]

Ah, but all parties were agreeable to this.

...of sorts. Not exactly. And just because we don't hear about it now, there *was* a boatload of controversy surrounding Glen at the time.

[bugsymalone]

Ah, but all parties were agreeable to this.

...of sorts. Not exactly. And just because we don't hear about it now, there *was* a boatload of controversy surrounding Glen at the time.

I guess I was looking at it from the perspective of a band member voluntarily leaving the band (Tommy), joining up with another band (Damn Yankees) and Styx reforming with a replacement for him, as opposed to a band member being involuntarily removed (Dennis) and Styx reforming with a replacement.

Far more went into this mix, I am aware, but that was/is the bottom line, in my view.


Bugsy

[elmotano]

Ah, but all parties were agreeable to this.

...of sorts. Not exactly. And just because we don't hear about it now, there *was* a boatload of controversy surrounding Glen at the time.

I guess I was looking at it from the perspective of a band member voluntarily leaving the band (Tommy), joining up with another band (Damn Yankees) and Styx reforming with a replacement for him, as opposed to a band member being involuntarily removed (Dennis) and Styx reforming with a replacement.

Far more went into this mix, I am aware, but that was/is the bottom line, in my view.


Bugsy

How about band member (A) being told that another band member(B) was unavailable until band member (A) joined another band. Then all of a sudden band member (B) becomes available as long as he is the producer and has a majority of the rights to the bands material.

[stmonkeys]

Ah, but all parties were agreeable to this.

...of sorts. Not exactly. And just because we don't hear about it now, there *was* a boatload of controversy surrounding Glen at the time.

I guess I was looking at it from the perspective of a band member voluntarily leaving the band (Tommy), joining up with another band (Damn Yankees) and Styx reforming with a replacement for him, as opposed to a band member being involuntarily removed (Dennis) and Styx reforming with a replacement.

Far more went into this mix, I am aware, but that was/is the bottom line, in my view.


Bugsy

How about band member (A) being told that another band member(B) was unavailable until band member (A) joined another band. Then all of a sudden band member (B) becomes available as long as he is the producer and has a majority of the rights to the bands material.

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (B) would NEVER do that to someone like (A)

[bugsymalone]

How about band member (A) being told that another band member(B) was unavailable until band member (A) joined another band. Then all of a sudden band member (B) becomes available as long as he is the producer and has a majority of the rights to the bands material.

Still doesn't change the equation of voluntary vs involuntary departure from a band.


Bugsy

[Zan]

How about band member (A) being told that another band member(B) was unavailable until band member (A) joined another band. Then all of a sudden band member (B) becomes available as long as he is the producer and has a majority of the rights to the bands material.

Still doesn't change the equation of voluntary vs involuntary departure from a band.

Sure, whatever.

[FormerDJMike]

When I watch some of those 91 videos I remember JY played most of the guitar solos. Wonder why they had him play 90 % of them on his and Tommy's songs?

[Grotelul]

When I watch some of those 91 videos I remember JY played most of the guitar solos. Wonder why they had him play 90 % of them on his and Tommy's songs?

Because Glen is not a lead guitarist.

[styxfanNH]

When I watch some of those 91 videos I remember JY played most of the guitar solos. Wonder why they had him play 90 % of them on his and Tommy's songs?

Actually the "Lead" is actually shared by both throughout the songs. Tommy describes it that if the lead is using a whammy bar then it is JY if not it is probably him. THey both play their fair share of lead and rhythm in most songs.

[Toph]

Ah, but all parties were agreeable to this.

...of sorts. Not exactly. And just because we don't hear about it now, there *was* a boatload of controversy surrounding Glen at the time.

I guess I was looking at it from the perspective of a band member voluntarily leaving the band (Tommy), joining up with another band (Damn Yankees) and Styx reforming with a replacement for him, as opposed to a band member being involuntarily removed (Dennis) and Styx reforming with a replacement.

Far more went into this mix, I am aware, but that was/is the bottom line, in my view.


Bugsy

How about band member (A) being told that another band member(B) was unavailable until band member (A) joined another band. Then all of a sudden band member (B) becomes available as long as he is the producer and has a majority of the rights to the bands material.

That's is bullshit and you know it. Sorry, but that story is just wrong. Band member (A) got what he thought was a better offer and screwed band member B,C,D, and E. Band member was and still is all about Band member A.

[Zan]

That's is bullshit and you know it. Sorry, but that story is just wrong. Band member (A) got what he thought was a better offer and screwed band member B,C,D, and E. Band member was and still is all about Band member A.

I'm NOT "sorry," but YOU are wrong. lol

[Jodes]

Toph, I recall Tommy meeting with JY, CP and JP in 1988 wanting to get Styx back together, but Dennis was busy working on Boomchild.. His reason to Tommy was "umm, not right now, I'm working on the video for Boomchild" six months later, Tommy's had enough and goes with Damn Yankees, while Dennis is still on the solo album.

It was Dennis who delayed Tommy getting back into Styx, not the other way around.

[Toph]

Toph, I recall Tommy meeting with JY, CP and JP in 1988 wanting to get Styx back together, but Dennis was busy working on Boomchild.. His reason to Tommy was "umm, not right now, I'm working on the video for Boomchild" six months later, Tommy's had enough and goes with Damn Yankees, while Dennis is still on the solo album.

It was Dennis who delayed Tommy getting back into Styx, not the other way around.

Dennis had to finish his album and then he was willing to get Styx back together. Tommy lied (shock!) and told Styx he was going back with them and then a week before recording is supposed to start on what became Edge, let's them know that he has taken another gig elsewhere.

[Zan]

Toph, I recall Tommy meeting with JY, CP and JP in 1988 wanting to get Styx back together, but Dennis was busy working on Boomchild.. His reason to Tommy was "umm, not right now, I'm working on the video for Boomchild" six months later, Tommy's had enough and goes with Damn Yankees, while Dennis is still on the solo album.

It was Dennis who delayed Tommy getting back into Styx, not the other way around.

Dennis had to finish his album and then he was willing to get Styx back together. Tommy lied (shock!) and told Styx he was going back with them and then a week before recording is supposed to start on what became Edge, let's them know that he has taken another gig elsewhere.

You are either A) of DeYoung decent, or B) completely full of shit, or C) all of the above.

[FormerDJMike]

When I watch some of those 91 videos I remember JY played most of the guitar solos. Wonder why they had him play 90 % of them on his and Tommy's songs?

Actually the "Lead" is actually shared by both throughout the songs. Tommy describes it that if the lead is using a whammy bar then it is JY if not it is probably him. THey both play their fair share of lead and rhythm in most songs.

What I meant was during the EDGE tour JY played the lead on most of the songs during the tour. Glen played very little lead on the Edge tour.

[Zan]

When I watch some of those 91 videos I remember JY played most of the guitar solos. Wonder why they had him play 90 % of them on his and Tommy's songs?

Actually the "Lead" is actually shared by both throughout the songs. Tommy describes it that if the lead is using a whammy bar then it is JY if not it is probably him. THey both play their fair share of lead and rhythm in most songs.

What I meant was during the EDGE tour JY played the lead on most of the songs during the tour. Glen played very little lead on the Edge tour.

I remember AT THE TIME thinking they threw all the leads to JY because they wanted to keep the lineup as "pure" as possible. Heh...That's a good example of fangirl oblivious mentality at work (a state of mind some of us never really outgrew). Later, I came to discover that Glen doesn't really do "lead guitar" as he specializes in rhythm/acoustic stuff.

[kansas666]

So much venom has been spewed about Gowen "daring" to do DeYoung songs.

Very rarely have I seen mention of the 91 tour (when the shoe was on the other foot).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YBaKIVODdY&feature=related

To be fair, Burtnik did a good job with the song.

Could it be because we didn't have the internet?

[Toph]

Toph, I recall Tommy meeting with JY, CP and JP in 1988 wanting to get Styx back together, but Dennis was busy working on Boomchild.. His reason to Tommy was "umm, not right now, I'm working on the video for Boomchild" six months later, Tommy's had enough and goes with Damn Yankees, while Dennis is still on the solo album.

It was Dennis who delayed Tommy getting back into Styx, not the other way around.

Dennis had to finish his album and then he was willing to get Styx back together. Tommy lied (shock!) and told Styx he was going back with them and then a week before recording is supposed to start on what became Edge, let's them know that he has taken another gig elsewhere.

You are either A) of DeYoung decent, or B) completely full of shit, or C) all of the above.

No maam you are wrong...and definitely should choose answer B.

Read the Grand Delusion to get you out of your delusion..

Steve A. Jones - " There was a whole different deal where Tommy wanted to be in it, and he was quoted in the papers as saying it was about to happen. Meanwhile, I think he had represented it some other way to Dennis, and finally Dennis got aggravated and said, 'Well, we'll put the band together and Tommy can choose whether he wants to be in it or not.' I just know that they were talking with him and somehow he had not represented his true position, is a diplomatic way of putting it. He was still negotiating to be in the band when he COULDN'T be in the band. That he was just...I think "stringing them along" would be a little harsh, but that is what it sounded like to me." [shock - Tommy lies again!].

The members of Styx reached a tentative deal regarding the reunion and Dennis called Tommy in Los Angeles to tell him to get ready to come to CHicago to start pre-production on a new Styx record. The call actually came on the first day of Damn Yankees's recording its debut album...

[Ash]

I remember seeing the 1991 tour in Columbia, MD.

I was a Glen skeptic until that show. He really, really won me over that night. Which at the time was a BIG deal because I was a much bigger Tommy Shaw fanatic (due to Damn Yankees being out earlier that year) than I was a DeYoung/Styx fan.

When Glen started into "Renegade" you could definitely tell he was uncomfortable, but the crowd was really supportive of him and he really did the song justice. I still remember his performance.

[Toph]

Toph, I recall Tommy meeting with JY, CP and JP in 1988 wanting to get Styx back together, but Dennis was busy working on Boomchild.. His reason to Tommy was "umm, not right now, I'm working on the video for Boomchild" six months later, Tommy's had enough and goes with Damn Yankees, while Dennis is still on the solo album.

It was Dennis who delayed Tommy getting back into Styx, not the other way around.

Dennis had to finish his album and then he was willing to get Styx back together. Tommy lied (shock!) and told Styx he was going back with them and then a week before recording is supposed to start on what became Edge, let's them know that he has taken another gig elsewhere.

You are either A) of DeYoung decent, or B) completely full of shit, or C) all of the above.

I call em as I see them. And would a DeYoung descent (not decent, meaning acceptable, satisfactory) post this?
http://forums.melodicrock.com/phpBB/vie ... hp?t=36418
http://forums.melodicrock.com/phpBB/vie ... hp?t=36418
I

[Zan]

I call em as I see them. And would a DeYoung descent (not decent, meaning acceptable, satisfactory) post this?
http://forums.melodicrock.com/phpBB/vie ... hp?t=36418
http://forums.melodicrock.com/phpBB/vie ... hp?t=36418
I

A valid point (about being a DeYoung, notsomuch about my typo).

I guess you're just completely full of shit. Thanks for clarifying.

[Toph]

I call em as I see them. And would a DeYoung descent (not decent, meaning acceptable, satisfactory) post this?
http://forums.melodicrock.com/phpBB/vie ... hp?t=36418
http://forums.melodicrock.com/phpBB/vie ... hp?t=36418
I

A valid point (about being a DeYoung, notsomuch about my typo).

I guess you're just completely full of shit. Thanks for clarifying.

And I guess your just a tad bitter..

[Zan]

And I guess your just a tad bitter..

No. You're (as in "you are," not "belonging to you") a lot better.

[elmotano]

Toph, I recall Tommy meeting with JY, CP and JP in 1988 wanting to get Styx back together, but Dennis was busy working on Boomchild.. His reason to Tommy was "umm, not right now, I'm working on the video for Boomchild" six months later, Tommy's had enough and goes with Damn Yankees, while Dennis is still on the solo album.

It was Dennis who delayed Tommy getting back into Styx, not the other way around.

Dennis had to finish his album and then he was willing to get Styx back together. Tommy lied (shock!) and told Styx he was going back with them and then a week before recording is supposed to start on what became Edge, let's them know that he has taken another gig elsewhere.

You are either A) of DeYoung decent, or B) completely full of shit, or C) all of the above.

No maam you are wrong...and definitely should choose answer B.

Read the Grand Delusion to get you out of your delusion..

Steve A. Jones - " There was a whole different deal where Tommy wanted to be in it, and he was quoted in the papers as saying it was about to happen. Meanwhile, I think he had represented it some other way to Dennis, and finally Dennis got aggravated and said, 'Well, we'll put the band together and Tommy can choose whether he wants to be in it or not.' I just know that they were talking with him and somehow he had not represented his true position, is a diplomatic way of putting it. He was still negotiating to be in the band when he COULDN'T be in the band. That he was just...I think "stringing them along" would be a little harsh, but that is what it sounded like to me." [shock - Tommy lies again!].

The members of Styx reached a tentative deal regarding the reunion and Dennis called Tommy in Los Angeles to tell him to get ready to come to CHicago to start pre-production on a new Styx record. The call actually came on the first day of Damn Yankees's recording its debut album...

Sorry Toph, but you are WRONG. Look at the bolded line from your quote. You don't think DDY knew that? And Dennis not only said he needed to finish his new Album, he also need to tour and do promotional work for it. Strangely, on Damn Yankees first day of recording, which should have been during DDY's promotional schedule, all of a sudden Styx had to be back together. Oh and let's not forget that Tommy was the only one to refuse to allow DDY to have all credits and rights at that time. Believe what you will, I was around then and knew members in both camps pretty well.

[Toph]

Toph, I recall Tommy meeting with JY, CP and JP in 1988 wanting to get Styx back together, but Dennis was busy working on Boomchild.. His reason to Tommy was "umm, not right now, I'm working on the video for Boomchild" six months later, Tommy's had enough and goes with Damn Yankees, while Dennis is still on the solo album.

It was Dennis who delayed Tommy getting back into Styx, not the other way around.

Dennis had to finish his album and then he was willing to get Styx back together. Tommy lied (shock!) and told Styx he was going back with them and then a week before recording is supposed to start on what became Edge, let's them know that he has taken another gig elsewhere.

You are either A) of DeYoung decent, or B) completely full of shit, or C) all of the above.

No maam you are wrong...and definitely should choose answer B.

Read the Grand Delusion to get you out of your delusion..

Steve A. Jones - " There was a whole different deal where Tommy wanted to be in it, and he was quoted in the papers as saying it was about to happen. Meanwhile, I think he had represented it some other way to Dennis, and finally Dennis got aggravated and said, 'Well, we'll put the band together and Tommy can choose whether he wants to be in it or not.' I just know that they were talking with him and somehow he had not represented his true position, is a diplomatic way of putting it. He was still negotiating to be in the band when he COULDN'T be in the band. That he was just...I think "stringing them along" would be a little harsh, but that is what it sounded like to me." [shock - Tommy lies again!].

The members of Styx reached a tentative deal regarding the reunion and Dennis called Tommy in Los Angeles to tell him to get ready to come to CHicago to start pre-production on a new Styx record. The call actually came on the first day of Damn Yankees's recording its debut album...

Sorry Toph, but you are WRONG. Look at the bolded line from your quote. You don't think DDY knew that? And Dennis not only said he needed to finish his new Album, he also need to tour and do promotional work for it. Strangely, on Damn Yankees first day of recording, which should have been during DDY's promotional schedule, all of a sudden Styx had to be back together. Oh and let's not forget that Tommy was the only one to refuse to allow DDY to have all credits and rights at that time. Believe what you will, I was around then and knew members in both camps pretty well.

Oh, sure...right! I'll believe some dude posting on an internet board vs. the author of a published book who spent hours and hours researching it and talking to the key players that were involved. But wait, you "were around then and knew members in both camps pretty well." Thanks for straightening me out there, bud.

[stmonkeys]

funny- i recall a meeting in the late 80s (where every member of styx EXCEPT ddy was present) where they tried to put the band back together, but were shot down by dennis. there is a photo from this day somewhere on tommy's website (not sure if it is still there), and if i recall correctly, it was the last time he and john had been in the same room together prior to his passing. (or maybe it was the last photograph of the 2 of them together, since i think i remember tommy saying john met hannah during the syracuse ny stop when the 2 tours "collided")

[Rockwriter]

Toph, I recall Tommy meeting with JY, CP and JP in 1988 wanting to get Styx back together, but Dennis was busy working on Boomchild.. His reason to Tommy was "umm, not right now, I'm working on the video for Boomchild" six months later, Tommy's had enough and goes with Damn Yankees, while Dennis is still on the solo album.

It was Dennis who delayed Tommy getting back into Styx, not the other way around.

Dennis had to finish his album and then he was willing to get Styx back together. Tommy lied (shock!) and told Styx he was going back with them and then a week before recording is supposed to start on what became Edge, let's them know that he has taken another gig elsewhere.

You are either A) of DeYoung decent, or B) completely full of shit, or C) all of the above.

No maam you are wrong...and definitely should choose answer B.

Read the Grand Delusion to get you out of your delusion..

Steve A. Jones - " There was a whole different deal where Tommy wanted to be in it, and he was quoted in the papers as saying it was about to happen. Meanwhile, I think he had represented it some other way to Dennis, and finally Dennis got aggravated and said, 'Well, we'll put the band together and Tommy can choose whether he wants to be in it or not.' I just know that they were talking with him and somehow he had not represented his true position, is a diplomatic way of putting it. He was still negotiating to be in the band when he COULDN'T be in the band. That he was just...I think "stringing them along" would be a little harsh, but that is what it sounded like to me." [shock - Tommy lies again!].

The members of Styx reached a tentative deal regarding the reunion and Dennis called Tommy in Los Angeles to tell him to get ready to come to CHicago to start pre-production on a new Styx record. The call actually came on the first day of Damn Yankees's recording its debut album...

Sorry Toph, but you are WRONG. Look at the bolded line from your quote. You don't think DDY knew that? And Dennis not only said he needed to finish his new Album, he also need to tour and do promotional work for it. Strangely, on Damn Yankees first day of recording, which should have been during DDY's promotional schedule, all of a sudden Styx had to be back together. Oh and let's not forget that Tommy was the only one to refuse to allow DDY to have all credits and rights at that time. Believe what you will, I was around then and knew members in both camps pretty well.

Oh, sure...right! I'll believe some dude posting on an internet board vs. the author of a published book who spent hours and hours researching it and talking to the key players that were involved. But wait, you "were around then and knew members in both camps pretty well." Thanks for straightening me out there, bud.

Actually, both of those stories are (kind of) true, but incomplete. They did not happen simultaneously and they do not mutually exclude one another. You are simply talking about two entirely different sets of meetings. One was around 1988, and it's true at that time Dennis had a commitment to do an album at MCA - incidentally, he had signed a contract obliging him to do so, it's not as if he chose it over Styx. It was a pre-existing commitment that pre-dated the possibility of Styx doing anything. About a year later, some time in that time frame, BOOMCHILD had emerged, failed, and Dennis was subsequently released, at which point he, JY and John and Chuck began negotiating for what became EOTC. Once they had reached an agreement among themselves they called Tommy, who had committed to Damn Yankees in the meantime. I have seen Tommy tell the story different ways at different times. Sometimes he tells it that he spoke with Dennis beforehand, sometimes (like in his interview with me) he says that they did not know until after they had decided to go on that he had signed with DY in the meantime. He has told the story two different ways as to who called him from Styx, too. Sometimes he says JY, and other times, like in his interviews with me, he says it was Dennis. For the book, since it was me writing it, where he has contradicted himself I chose to use what he told me directly.

Hopefully that clarifies things. It's not the fault of one or the other; again, as with everything else about this band, there is shared blame for why things went down the way they did. And that's not even to talk about JY's role in those talks, which was also a stumbling block.

I hope all is well.


Sterling

[gr8dane]

Toph, I recall Tommy meeting with JY, CP and JP in 1988 wanting to get Styx back together, but Dennis was busy working on Boomchild.. His reason to Tommy was "umm, not right now, I'm working on the video for Boomchild" six months later, Tommy's had enough and goes with Damn Yankees, while Dennis is still on the solo album.

It was Dennis who delayed Tommy getting back into Styx, not the other way around.

Dennis had to finish his album and then he was willing to get Styx back together. Tommy lied (shock!) and told Styx he was going back with them and then a week before recording is supposed to start on what became Edge, let's them know that he has taken another gig elsewhere.

You are either A) of DeYoung decent, or B) completely full of shit, or C) all of the above.

No maam you are wrong...and definitely should choose answer B.

Read the Grand Delusion to get you out of your delusion..

Steve A. Jones - " There was a whole different deal where Tommy wanted to be in it, and he was quoted in the papers as saying it was about to happen. Meanwhile, I think he had represented it some other way to Dennis, and finally Dennis got aggravated and said, 'Well, we'll put the band together and Tommy can choose whether he wants to be in it or not.' I just know that they were talking with him and somehow he had not represented his true position, is a diplomatic way of putting it. He was still negotiating to be in the band when he COULDN'T be in the band. That he was just...I think "stringing them along" would be a little harsh, but that is what it sounded like to me." [shock - Tommy lies again!].

The members of Styx reached a tentative deal regarding the reunion and Dennis called Tommy in Los Angeles to tell him to get ready to come to CHicago to start pre-production on a new Styx record. The call actually came on the first day of Damn Yankees's recording its debut album...

Sorry Toph, but you are WRONG. Look at the bolded line from your quote. You don't think DDY knew that? And Dennis not only said he needed to finish his new Album, he also need to tour and do promotional work for it. Strangely, on Damn Yankees first day of recording, which should have been during DDY's promotional schedule, all of a sudden Styx had to be back together. Oh and let's not forget that Tommy was the only one to refuse to allow DDY to have all credits and rights at that time. Believe what you will, I was around then and knew members in both camps pretty well.

Oh, sure...right! I'll believe some dude posting on an internet board vs. the author of a published book who spent hours and hours researching it and talking to the key players that were involved. But wait, you "were around then and knew members in both camps pretty well." Thanks for straightening me out there, bud.[/quote/.

Hey Topher.
You are exactly what I'm lookin for.
I wrote a book about how to make your first MILL.
It is called 'How to make your first MILLL.'.
What you do is the next time you go to a motel ,you pick up the bible which will be somewhere in your room,if it has not been stolen.
If that is the case you ask for another room because the icemachine is making to much noise,and hopefully there wil be one in there.

Now this is where it gets interesting.

You take the first 2 letters in said book and invest in the first stock option starting with those said letters,in the company you first come across.
Is this clear?
Then a month later you invest in the next 2 letters in said book.

Easy?
Sure it is.

Now the bible was written by somebody I forget who,,,.
But it was written so it must be true.....
My book was written and it took a long time so it must be true.

I am willing to share my wealth,but you must buy my book.

39;99 and you will be wealthy.

No money back guarantee.

Talking about tees.
I almost had a hole in one.

But that was a week ago,,,,,,,,,
zzzzzzzz