Question for the veterans

by **Everett** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:21 pm

How often did they play the extra verse in crystal ball? any recordings of it out there?

by **StyxCollector** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:39 pm

Thenightbull wrote:How often did they play the extra verse in crystal ball? any recordings of it out there?

Styx? Never.

Tommy's done it solo on occasion.

by **yogi** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:27 pm

Ive got a GREAT solo version of Tommy doing it on his Girls With Guns Tour. I think it was recorded in South Bend, Indiana.

by **froy** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:35 pm

StyxCollector wrote:
Thenightbull wrote:How often did they play the extra verse in crystal ball? any recordings of it out there?

Styx? Never.

Tommy's done it solo on occasion.

I heard it on TRTPT I think it was in Chicago.
So not never.

by **yogi** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:11 pm

I heard it live at the Minnnesota State Fair 1978 Main Event Show.

They played the extra verse FOR SURE.

by **froy** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:55 pm

yogi wrote:I heard it live at the Minnnesota State Fair 1978 Main Event Show.

They played the extra verse FOR SURE.

Yep they played it many times
I remember Shaw saying something about they were going to play it the way it was originally written
1980 also

by **StyxCollector** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 5:17 am

I know Styx never played it. I talked about it with both Dennis and Tommy. Styx never recorded or played the version with the extra verse.

I've got boots of every tour and it's on none of them either. This one is a fact, boys and girls.

by **yogi** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 5:30 am

Alan,

I promise you they played the extra verse back when I saw them in 1978. Tommy and dennis are'misremembering'.

Dennis 'The Doctor' even talked about it in the intro before they played it.

Minnesota State Fair (Aug 1978) The Main Event Tour - New England was the warm up band.

I am 100% POSITIVE that they played it.

P.S. I will BET you ANYTHING you want on this. For me its a sure thing because I promise you they played it.

by **froy** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:04 am

StyxCollector wrote:I know Styx never played it. I talked about it with both Dennis and Tommy. Styx never recorded or played the version with the extra verse.

I've got boots of every tour and it's on none of them either. This one is a fact, boys and girls.

Nope you are wrong
I heard it for sure more than once and on different tours.
It was not part of the set just done one off
Just like Nothing Ever Goes As Planned
I heard that a few times

Update
It was played in Chicago on TRTPT tour the first Chicago show of that tour at The World Theater.

by **Rockwriter** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:59 pm

Thenightbull wrote:How often did they play the extra verse in crystal ball? any recordings of it out there?

I tend to fall with Allan on this, I don't think Styx ever played the extra verse. Why would they do that when the whole point of Styx-izing it was to get away from the CSNY-esqueness of it? Now that doesn't mean that Tommy didn't knock it out with Styx, I don't know, but with Dennis and JY in on it? I will have to hear tape before I believe that. There certainly is the TS solo version from Westwood One, from the Montgomery AL date of the GWG tour, the same concert that was recorded by MTV for the 'Tommy Shaw: Solo' special. Frankly, the third verse sucks IMO. That's why they killed it, I'm guessing.

I hope all is well.

Sterling

by **StyxCollector** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:29 pm

Styx never recorded it with the third verse. Ever. Not even as a demo. Tommy even reworked the song after he joined Styx and rumor has it there are demos of him doing an arrangement close to the Styx version sans that third verse, so it got dropped even early on in his Styx tenure.

They only live version they ever did was the way Styx recorded it. There really is no question on this one. Someone would really need to provide tape of it happening with that extra verse, because Styx wasn't ever known for doing this type of variant. Unless Dennis, Chuck, John, and JY left the stage while Tommy was doing CB, they did the Styx version.

The only live variant with an extra verse was "Cold War" on the KWH tour. THAT'S IT.

by **yogi** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:52 pm

Allan,

You are wrong. They may have never recorded it, but they played it live in 1978 at the MN State Fair, because I was there and I heard it.

I can 100% promise you that they did.

At the time I knew the song, but had no clue that there was another verse.

I didnt know DDY from JY from JC from Tommy from Chuck from John. The word internet was Japanese and all I knew about Styx was that I loved their music.

When they played the extra verse I thought that was so cool and I was hoping at some point to hear it again. Over the years I had even forgotten about it until I purchases the Girls With Guns boots.

Again, all I know is that they played it in 1978 when I saw them. If Tommy & Dennis say they didnt they are 'misremembering' the facts.

Dig a little harder on this one because I am not lying or 'misremembering'. There has to be crew members still around or other band members that will remember this show.

Before the song Dennis even talked about playing it how it was orginally made and then Styxifying it. They played the extra verse.

I am telling you the truth.

by **bugsymalone** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:01 am

Hmmm....This one is getting interesting.

(Getting out some popcorn). Counselor, your witness.

Bugsy

by **froy** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:02 am

StyxCollector wrote:Styx never recorded it with the third verse. Ever. Not even as a demo. Tommy even reworked the song after he joined Styx and rumor has it there are demos of him doing an arrangement close to the Styx version sans that third verse, so it got dropped even early on in his Styx tenure.

They only live version they ever did was the way Styx recorded it. There really is no question on this one. Someone would really need to provide tape of it happening with that extra verse, because Styx wasn't ever known for doing this type of variant. Unless Dennis, Chuck, John, and JY left the stage while Tommy was doing CB, they did the Styx version.

The only live variant with an extra verse was "Cold War" on the KWH tour. THAT'S IT.

Im with Yogi
They did play it many times
I know this simply because I heard it and never knew about it until Shaw said they were going to do the song in its original form.
I promise you this is fact.
It was only live and on 2 different tours I saw.
No doubt about it,

by **Zan** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:10 am

God help me, I'm with Froy and Yogi. I have been at shows where I've heard it too.

by **froy** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:19 am

Zan wrote:God help me, I'm with Froy and Yogi. I have been at shows where I've heard it too.

Wow Minohjay..

by **Jodes** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:26 am

Its just like the "son of edge demos" Dennis is saying that it was just him and Glen that recorded them, yet Glen specifically mentions several times that it was him, JY and Dennis who worked on them.

Maybe they all just need some more ginko biloba..

by **StyxCollector** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:49 am

Well, this is one where I'll need tape. I think the wacky weed is going around. I just don't believe it.

With as much Styx product I own and have heard (including some demo stuff) nothing, and I mean nothing, even remotely hints at this. There's a demo of Tommy around 76 or so doing the Styx arrangement (no extra verse) which was clearly done after he joined the band and before it was recorded with the full band. I've also heard the Harvest version which had that verse and by the time Tommy re-demoed it and Styx recorded it, that verse was gone. Poof. Never to return to Tommy's repertoire until GWG.

It's one thing to do something like they did with Great White Hope/007 Theme and do it a whole tour, much like Cold War. Styx was not known for just saying, "Fuck it, let's do Crystal Ball with the extra verse tonight." Once they Styxified it, they never did it the other way. It would have had to be Tommy solo without Styx on stage for that to happen. There's too much documentation that goes the other way. The band was about as spontaneous as a pet rock from 1977/78 on ...

Now, I'm not saying Tommy forgot about that verse. Clearly he didn't.

by **yogi** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:38 am

Allan,

You probably have forgotten more about Styx than I will EVER know, still the FACT is they played the extra verse in 1978 at The Minnesota State Fair. I was a 13 year old Styx freak back then it was my first ever Styx concert and I PROMISE you they played it.

The only real Styx facts I knew back then were the players in the band, and that 'chick' had found Tommy who had replaced JC. I knew that from the sleeve of the Crystal Ball album. I went to the show with my older brother and three friends. I was the only Styx freak in the bunch. Dennis was called 'The Doctor' by the others when they talked to the audience. When Dennis grabed the mic and did the intro for Crystal Ball he talked about how it was a folksy type song that they Styxified and he stated that they would play it as Tommy had orginally written it. This included the extra verse which was included in the Styxified version. I was blown away by that and the entire show which included New England. The next day I biked over to Cheapo records on Grand Avenue and purchased New Englands album.

I PROMISE you what I am stating is fact. Someone out there in their inner circle knows this. I have no reason to make this up.

Yogi(Jim)

by **froy** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:24 am

yogi wrote:Allan,

You probably have forgotten more about Styx than I will EVER know, still the FACT is they played the extra verse in 1978 at The Minnesota State Fair. I was a 13 year old Styx freak back then it was my first ever Styx concert and I PROMISE you they played it.

The only real Styx facts I knew back then were the players in the band, and that 'chick' had found Tommy who had replaced JC. I knew that from the sleeve of the Crystal Ball album. I went to the show with my older brother and three friends. I was the only Styx freak in the bunch. Dennis was called 'The Doctor' by the others when they talked to the audience. When Dennis grabed the mic and did the intro for Crystal Ball he talked about how it was a folksy type song that they Styxified and he stated that they would play it as Tommy had orginally written it. This included the extra verse which was included in the Styxified version. I was blown away by that and the entire show which included New England. The next day I biked over to Cheapo records on Grand Avenue and purchased New Englands album.

I PROMISE you what I am stating is fact. Someone out there in their inner circle knows this. I have no reason to make this up.

Yogi(Jim)

I will say it again
The only reason I know about this extra verse is because I saw it performed live 2 times.
No other reason
It was at a Styx show with Dennis
No debate it's real

by **StyxCollector** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:36 am

Jim -

The overwhelming evidence with this band points so much the other way that I'm sure you can see why I'm skeptical. And I will be the first one to say I'm wrong if it can be proven without the shadow of a doubt.

I remember going to the Spectrum in September '86 to Genesis and that concert is very vivid to me because it was my first one. Clearly that concert in 1978 sticks in your memory. So I do get it. I'm not looking to shit on your memory at all. Let's just agree to disagree.

But you're right - I've probably known and forgotten so much minutiae about this band over the past, say, 25 years it would make even my head spin

Once I catalog my collection I think I'll go into semi-retirement when it comes to the band and its members

Allan

by **Zan** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:55 am

StyxCollector wrote:Jim -

The overwhelming evidence with this band points so much the other way that I'm sure you can see why I'm skeptical. And I will be the first one to say I'm wrong if it can be proven without the shadow of a doubt.

I remember going to the Spectrum in September '86 to Genesis and that concert is very vivid to me because it was my first one. Clearly that concert in 1978 sticks in your memory. So I do get it. I'm not looking to shit on your memory at all. Let's just agree to disagree.

But you're right - I've probably known and forgotten so much minutiae about this band over the past, say, 25 years it would make even my head spin Once I catalog my collection I think I'll go into semi-retirement when it comes to the band and its members

Allan

Allan,

This is not a matter of opinion to agree or disagree. It is either a fact or it isn't. I know this might come as a great surprise to you, but there are times when you are actually wrong. This is one of those times. I have BEEN AT shows where Tommy has sung the extra verse in Crystal Ball. More than one show I might add. I really don't care what your tapes or logs say.

It's ok, Allan, you can let it go. I promise you, it's happened.

Just sayin'...

by **chowhall** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:04 am

Zan wrote:[Allan,

This is not a matter of opinion to agree or disagree. It is either a fact or it isn't. I know this might come as a great surprise to you, but there are times when you are actually wrong. This is one of those times. I have BEEN AT shows where Tommy has sung the extra verse in Crystal Ball. More than one show I might add. I really don't care what your tapes or logs say.

It's ok, Allan, you can let it go. I promise you, it's happened.

Just sayin'...

This is Zan's input for her new job as an Ambassador.

by **Zan** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:55 am

chowhall wrote:This is Zan's input for her new job as an Ambassador.

And as Ambassador, let me be the first to invite you to KMA. ;-)

by **froy** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:01 pm

Zan wrote:
chowhall wrote:This is Zan's input for her new job as an Ambassador.

And as Ambassador, let me be the first to invite you to KMA.

kick or Kiss?

by **Everett** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:29 pm

Why did i have to create this assembly line? i'm glad you guys have a great memory.

by **chowhall** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:09 pm

Zan wrote:And as Ambassador, let me be the first to invite you to KMA. [/b]

Did you mean KYAG?

by **LordofDaRing** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:23 pm

Lower the cage...2 styx Teams enter, 1 will emerge...Vince M can add this to his wrestlemania line up. If team Froy wins, DDY is back in Styx. If team Allan prevails, front row seats at the next Styx gig for team Froy, plus meet and greet back stage

by **ItsMyLife** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:34 am

Does anyone have the lyrics for this extra verse? I'm not familiar with it.

by **TWOSTYXUP** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:45 am

Here is the third verse of Crystal Ball.

If you should see me walking through your dream tonight
would you please direct me where I ought to be
I've been looking for a crystal ball to shed the light

To find the future in me
To find the future in me

This was played at some of The Borders shows for 7DZ

It was played by Styx in 1978 at the Forum in Los Angeles, I was there and I think the Cars opened for them but not 100% sure on that part

MR

Question for the veterans

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Lyrics to extra verse of Crystal Ball

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