MR

Hi everyone:

I got an email from Todd, who's evidently caught wind of the "lip synching" discussion we've been having here on the board. He has this to say in reponse:

"Sterling,

I had a funny experience at the Chicago show tonight and that's why I'm responding to this bit about "lip synching." The only reason I read this nonsense is because of the links you sent me for the interviews.....but tonight a musician friend of mine of over 30 years told me that during the show a dude next to him said about Lawrence, "yeah.....look....definitely lip synching." My buddy and I laughed like hell about it. Now I see some folks are saying the same thing here.

On one hand I think it's funny because people think they know shit while they really....don't know shit. They see the video screen (visual delay with sound) or don't consider the fact that there are reverbs and delays effect wise on the voice from song to song-----and people go "hey...wait a minute." It's nonsense. And as a serious musician, the notion that anyone believes we are up to trickery bothers me. I pride myself (and ourselves) that there are 5 guys playing and singing. No click tracks, no outside help.

Don't believe me? Come to multiple shows. Record them. Listen. Hey, my time and tempos vary from night to night----can't do that without a click track and can't have fake vocals without a click. Check my tempos and check all our vocals. Then talk about it. But don't spread this bullshit 'cause some goober in the 30th row with 3 beers in him saw a delay on the video screen. Again, come out to multiple shows. You can be my guest.

Cheers,
Todd Sucherman, 5:45 am after the sold out Chicago show '09."


So there we have it. Much ado about nothing as far as I can see, but then that's what I thought.

Sterling

Rockwriter wrote:Hi everyone:

I got an email from Todd, who's evidently caught wind of the "lip synching" discussion we've been having here on the board. He has this to say in reponse:

"Sterling,

I had a funny experience at the Chicago show tonight and that's why I'm responding to this bit about "lip synching." The only reason I read this nonsense is because of the links you sent me for the interviews.....but tonight a musician friend of mine of over 30 years told me that during the show a dude next to him said about Lawrence, "yeah.....look....definitely lip synching." My buddy and I laughed like hell about it. Now I see some folks are saying the same thing here.

On one hand I think it's funny because people think they know shit while they really....don't know shit. They see the video screen (visual delay with sound) or don't consider the fact that there are reverbs and delays effect wise on the voice from song to song-----and people go "hey...wait a minute." It's nonsense. And as a serious musician, the notion that anyone believes we are up to trickery bothers me. I pride myself (and ourselves) that there are 5 guys playing and singing. No click tracks, no outside help.

Don't believe me? Come to multiple shows. Record them. Listen. Hey, my time and tempos vary from night to night----can't do that without a click track and can't have fake vocals without a click. Check my tempos and check all our vocals. Then talk about it. But don't spread this bullshit 'cause some goober in the 30th row with 3 beers in him saw a delay on the video screen. Again, come out to multiple shows. You can be my guest.

Cheers,
Todd Sucherman, 5:45 am after the sold out Chicago show '09."


So there we have it. Much ado about nothing as far as I can see, but then that's what I thought.

Sterling

Thank You Sterling & Todd
Now maybe some will just shut up about it and let them play.

Babyblue wrote:Now maybe some will just shut up about it....

Now that's funny.

the masses are asses.

Thanks for posting this sterling.

Where are you Toph? I'm calling you out. You're quick to make accusations and making an ass of yourself. Do you have the balls to call Todd a liar. I didn't think so wuss.

Right on Todd..

Btw, I have 4 shows from this current tour (audio only) if anyone wants to listen for themselves..

Zan wrote:

Babyblue wrote:Now maybe some will just shut up about it....

Now that's funny.

Sorry

It should have been this. Toph there is your answer from the man. Just shut up

I wondered how long it would take for that one stupid comment to grow legs and get noticed.. not as long as I thought. I've never seen anything at a Styx show that I thought was piped in.

Good for you Todd for responding.

Styx isn't a group that would strike me as needing to lip sync.

I mean, most of Styx's fans weren't raised on "perfect sound quality" and expect to hear the same thing live that they heard on the cd. And when Styx was getting famous, that practice wasn't nearly as popular as it is today, so it's not something I'd expect them to resort to. Styx may not always make the right decisions, but they do have a lot of integrity in their work.

Now if only Journey would have been quick to respond to anything!!!

Abitaman wrote:Now if only Journey would have been quick to respond to anything!!!

True

Touchy Touchy Todd, that goober in the 30th row paid money to see the show, bought more than 3 beers more than likely and probably a t-shirt too. That being said, I am sure nobody was faking the vocals, least of all JY.....

who's too say that the "goober" in the 30th row paid to see the show?

Look Lord, if you worked your ass of year in and year out and someone goes to where you work and says "hey, you're not doing your job right, I know, I've been here for 5 minutes" wouldn't you get a little pissy too?

"Look Lord, if you worked your ass of year in and year out and someone goes to where you work and says "hey, you're not doing your job right, I know, I've been here for 5 minutes" wouldn't you get a little pissy too?"

What makes you think it doesn't happen to me and most of Corporate America now. In addition, we have a government now that is doing exactly that, right.

I think if I made what these guys do, that would soften the blow a bit. Doesn't it come with the territory anyway? How many times does a proffessional athlete hear that from fat obnoxious fans. How many people even in here have tore into Babe, Broadway songs, etc, one guy in here even harassed Dennis, his wife and Glenn at one of the live shows. Its like what Jim Mora once said to a room full of reporters, "You don't know, you can't know and you will never know". Todd is no different than anyone else, he has a right to vent if he wants....

LordofDaRing wrote:"Look Lord, if you worked your ass of year in and year out and someone goes to where you work and says "hey, you're not doing your job right, I know, I've been here for 5 minutes" wouldn't you get a little pissy too?"

What makes you think it doesn't happen to me and most of Corporate America now. In addition, we have a government now that is doing exactly that, right.

I think if I made what these guys do, that would soften the blow a bit.

So, it's OK to make false accusations or annoy the ever-loving piss out of someone if they make more money than you do?

Doesn't it come with the territory anyway? How many times does a proffessional athlete hear that from fat obnoxious fans.

Who are you defending in this scenario?

How many people even in here have tore into Babe, Broadway songs, etc, one guy in here even harassed Dennis, his wife and Glenn at one of the live shows. Its like what Jim Mora once said to a room full of reporters, "You don't know, you can't know and you will never know". Todd is no different than anyone else, he has a right to vent if he wants....

First of all, saying a song sucks or that you don't enjoy a particular aspect of a band's music is different than accusing them of lip-syncing (especially someone who wasn't even there, just read an offhand comment from someone who claimed to have been there and then ran with it like a toddler with scissors).

Secondly, as I seem to recall, a lot of people here were ready to Knight Glen when he accosted whatshisface after a DDY show a couple years ago. Then half of you all banned together, called the guy "fat & ugly," and gave high fives all around. Todd responds to one ridiculous accusation and he's being "touchy." Um, kay. lol

I am not really in disagreement with you Zan. I go to see a Saints game in New Orleans. A player on the other team runs 90 yards through 11 tacklers on his way to the endzone. The huge fat drunk next to me (I am the thinner drunk to respond to your question ) says, "Damn I can play better than that...booooo....fire the coach...". I am sure in the practice the week before the coach did not draw that one up on the board, and this guy could not obviously play better than the guys on the field. Same analogy. Nobody watching a Styx concert could play drums better than Todd or sing better than Tommy. Maybe JY, not Tommy. Gowan...ehhhhh. Anyway, doesn't being in the spotlight, albiet a smaller one these days, bring some of that about. It doesn't mean the artists/players/politicians or fans have to like it. Look at the stuff thrown Palin's way. Celeberties come out and say they "hate" this woman...HATE her. Why? Because of her political views? Do any of them know her? Her family? I do not hate President Obama, I just disagree with his political views. I am sure people who don't like Republicans don't have an issue with the blasting Govenor Palin has taken, she should have thick skin. Right? Its funny how that argument goes along with the sides we choose either in Politics/music/sports whatever.

The touchy Todd comment was a little tounge in cheek, kind of like some prior Zan comments about Dennis being the alimight, God, etc etc. I am sure you really don't think I worship at the guys feet or that he parts the water . For the record, the Lord has no Dennis Shrine at his house.
I think people jumping on and off Glenn's bandwagon on the Dennis sit, was best explained by GB himself. He admitted he said some things he shouldn't have and some people (myself included) made note of it. I am not one of the ones making a big deal about him playing on stage with DDY, I am sure if the situation presented itself, he would play with Tommy and his gang again.

There are people on here that have said Dennis really didn't write Come Sail Away. All in all, being accused of lip-syncing is probably not close to being accused of plagiarism. Just saying...

LordofDaRing wrote:There are people on here that have said Dennis really didn't write Come Sail Away. All in all, being accused of lip-syncing is probably not close to being accused of plagiarism. Just saying...

Never underestimate the power of people's selective memory when it comes to comments about people they like. It runs rampant around here.

LordofDaRing wrote:There are people on here that have said Dennis really didn't write Come Sail Away. All in all, being accused of lip-syncing is probably not close to being accused of plagiarism. Just saying...

Good point. Although, I think a lot of that is up to ...what's that word? "interpretation."
Still and all, I'm willing to bet that certain members of the DeYoung household get pretty pissed when they hear that. lol
In fact, didn't Suzanne respond rather harshly to someone on "the crib" about cocaine use? And that letter was worded as a QUESTION.

Whether Gowan lip-syncs or not isn't really up for debate. He either does or he doesn't.

Absolutely right, I mean what if I say (Fill in the blank) is a complete asshole. Pretty inflamatory statement. However depending which name I put in there, it may or may not draw a response. As far as framing something as a question, Barney Frank made the mistake of opening a forum for questions at a college he was at. This jewish kid asked, "what if any responsibility do you feel you have with the current financial crisis". Frank flew into a "What are you accusing me of", "Right wing conspiracy", "Fox News" tantrum, until the kid very calmly repeated the question to him "What if any...". Just say none, if you feel that is the correct answer senator. done. Then burn in hell (lol)

I actually don't think any classic rockers lip-sync, Madonna..Brittney Spears all the dance while you sing types, another story.

LordofDaRing wrote:
There are people on here that have said Dennis really didn't write Come Sail Away. .

Wasn't Richard Marx a Ghost Writer before he became a little more well know, one of those guys who write a tune and get paid a lump sum to give up the writing credit for it?

Whether Gowan lip-syncs or not isn't really up for debate. He either does or he doesn't.

Isn't the point of lip-syncing to improve how you sound on stage? Y'know. Make you sound a bit better?? No way Gowan is lip-syncing then. No one who sounds that bad could possibly be.


Bugsy

Wasn't Richard Marx a Ghost Writer before he became a little more well know, one of those guys who write a tune and get paid a lump sum to give up the writing credit for it?


Hmmm first time hearing that one. I knew there always was ghost musicians on songs/albums. I think Glen Cambell was very famous for playing on Beach Boys and Monkee songs and not receiving credit. Wait, that must mean little Tracy wasn't always playing that triangle on the Partridge Family records....my day is ruined.

bugsymalone wrote:

Whether Gowan lip-syncs or not isn't really up for debate. He either does or he doesn't.

Isn't the point of lip-syncing to improve how you sound on stage? Y'know. Make you sound a bit better?? No way Gowan is lip-syncing then. No one who sounds that bad could possibly be.


Bugsy

Zan wrote:

LordofDaRing wrote:"Look Lord, if you worked your ass of year in and year out and someone goes to where you work and says "hey, you're not doing your job right, I know, I've been here for 5 minutes" wouldn't you get a little pissy too?"

What makes you think it doesn't happen to me and most of Corporate America now. In addition, we have a government now that is doing exactly that, right.

I think if I made what these guys do, that would soften the blow a bit.

So, it's OK to make false accusations or annoy the ever-loving piss out of someone if they make more money than you do?

Doesn't it come with the territory anyway? How many times does a proffessional athlete hear that from fat obnoxious fans.

Who are you defending in this scenario?

How many people even in here have tore into Babe, Broadway songs, etc, one guy in here even harassed Dennis, his wife and Glenn at one of the live shows. Its like what Jim Mora once said to a room full of reporters, "You don't know, you can't know and you will never know". Todd is no different than anyone else, he has a right to vent if he wants....

First of all, saying a song sucks or that you don't enjoy a particular aspect of a band's music is different than accusing them of lip-syncing (especially someone who wasn't even there, just read an offhand comment from someone who claimed to have been there and then ran with it like a toddler with scissors).
l

Oh get your panties from out of a wad... There was an accusation by someone that went to the show that Gowan was lip synching. I s imply repeated the accustation.

God knows you've NEVER done anything like that in regards to Dennis DeYoung.....

LordofDaRing wrote:I am not really in disagreement with you Zan. I go to see a Saints game in New Orleans. A player on the other team runs 90 yards through 11 tacklers on his way to the endzone. The huge fat drunk next to me (I am the thinner drunk to respond to your question ) says, "Damn I can play better than that...booooo....fire the coach...". I am sure in the practice the week before the coach did not draw that one up on the board, and this guy could not obviously play better than the guys on the field. Same analogy. Nobody watching a Styx concert could play drums better than Todd or sing better than Tommy. Maybe JY, not Tommy. Gowan...ehhhhh. Anyway, doesn't being in the spotlight, albiet a smaller one these days, bring some of that about. It doesn't mean the artists/players/politicians or fans have to like it. Look at the stuff thrown Palin's way. Celeberties come out and say they "hate" this woman...HATE her. Why? Because of her political views? Do any of them know her? Her family? I do not hate President Obama, I just disagree with his political views. I am sure people who don't like Republicans don't have an issue with the blasting Govenor Palin has taken, she should have thick skin. Right? Its funny how that argument goes along with the sides we choose either in Politics/music/sports whatever.

The touchy Todd comment was a little tounge in cheek, kind of like some prior Zan comments about Dennis being the alimight, God, etc etc. I am sure you really don't think I worship at the guys feet or that he parts the water . For the record, the Lord has no Dennis Shrine at his house.
I think people jumping on and off Glenn's bandwagon on the Dennis sit, was best explained by GB himself. He admitted he said some things he shouldn't have and some people (myself included) made note of it. I am not one of the ones making a big deal about him playing on stage with DDY, I am sure if the situation presented itself, he would play with Tommy and his gang again.

There are people on here that have said Dennis really didn't write Come Sail Away. All in all, being accused of lip-syncing is probably not close to being accused of plagiarism. Just saying...

She would have been one saying that...

Zan wrote:

LordofDaRing wrote:There are people on here that have said Dennis really didn't write Come Sail Away. All in all, being accused of lip-syncing is probably not close to being accused of plagiarism. Just saying...

Good point. Although, I think a lot of that is up to ...what's that word? "interpretation."
Still and all, I'm willing to bet that certain members of the DeYoung household get pretty pissed when they hear that. lol
In fact, didn't Suzanne respond rather harshly to someone on "the crib" about cocaine use? And that letter was worded as a QUESTION.

Another incorrect accusation that YOU made...

bugsymalone wrote:

Whether Gowan lip-syncs or not isn't really up for debate. He either does or he doesn't.

Isn't the point of lip-syncing to improve how you sound on stage? Y'know. Make you sound a bit better?? No way Gowan is lip-syncing then. No one who sounds that bad could possibly be.


Bugsy

Toph wrote:

Zan wrote:

LordofDaRing wrote:"Look Lord, if you worked your ass of year in and year out and someone goes to where you work and says "hey, you're not doing your job right, I know, I've been here for 5 minutes" wouldn't you get a little pissy too?"

What makes you think it doesn't happen to me and most of Corporate America now. In addition, we have a government now that is doing exactly that, right.

I think if I made what these guys do, that would soften the blow a bit.

So, it's OK to make false accusations or annoy the ever-loving piss out of someone if they make more money than you do?

Doesn't it come with the territory anyway? How many times does a proffessional athlete hear that from fat obnoxious fans.

Who are you defending in this scenario?

How many people even in here have tore into Babe, Broadway songs, etc, one guy in here even harassed Dennis, his wife and Glenn at one of the live shows. Its like what Jim Mora once said to a room full of reporters, "You don't know, you can't know and you will never know". Todd is no different than anyone else, he has a right to vent if he wants....

First of all, saying a song sucks or that you don't enjoy a particular aspect of a band's music is different than accusing them of lip-syncing (especially someone who wasn't even there, just read an offhand comment from someone who claimed to have been there and then ran with it like a toddler with scissors).
l

Oh get your panties from out of a wad... There was an accusation by someone that went to the show that Gowan was lip synching. I s imply repeated the accustation.

God knows you've NEVER done anything like that in regards to Dennis DeYoung.....

Is that an apology you Wuss?

chowhall wrote:

Toph wrote:

Zan wrote:

LordofDaRing wrote:"Look Lord, if you worked your ass of year in and year out and someone goes to where you work and says "hey, you're not doing your job right, I know, I've been here for 5 minutes" wouldn't you get a little pissy too?"

What makes you think it doesn't happen to me and most of Corporate America now. In addition, we have a government now that is doing exactly that, right.

I think if I made what these guys do, that would soften the blow a bit.

So, it's OK to make false accusations or annoy the ever-loving piss out of someone if they make more money than you do?

Doesn't it come with the territory anyway? How many times does a proffessional athlete hear that from fat obnoxious fans.

Who are you defending in this scenario?

How many people even in here have tore into Babe, Broadway songs, etc, one guy in here even harassed Dennis, his wife and Glenn at one of the live shows. Its like what Jim Mora once said to a room full of reporters, "You don't know, you can't know and you will never know". Todd is no different than anyone else, he has a right to vent if he wants....

First of all, saying a song sucks or that you don't enjoy a particular aspect of a band's music is different than accusing them of lip-syncing (especially someone who wasn't even there, just read an offhand comment from someone who claimed to have been there and then ran with it like a toddler with scissors).
l

Oh get your panties from out of a wad... There was an accusation by someone that went to the show that Gowan was lip synching. I s imply repeated the accustation.

God knows you've NEVER done anything like that in regards to Dennis DeYoung.....

Is that an apology you Wuss?

Ah....nope. Nothing to apologize for...