MR

This is probably a stupid question but why would A&M put Lonely People as one of the listed songs on the album sticker instead of something that may be released as a single?


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Mr JY Roboto wrote:This is probably a stupid question but why would A&M put Lonely People as one of the listed songs on the album sticker instead of something that may be released as a single?


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Have no idea - maybe it was considered as the third single before they decided on Nothing Ever Goes As Planned? Sterling may know given his extensive knowledge of the band.

But therein lies the problem as to why Paradise Theatre never came close to either Journey's Escape or REO's Hi In Fidelity in terms of sales - there was no viable 3rd single. People love to bust DeYoung's balls for the ballads, but the simple fact is that Paradise Theatre needed a second ballad (and third single). It wasn't there. Escape sold 10 million copies and 3 of its 4 singles were ballads (Open Arms, Who's Cryin' Now, and Still They Ride). REO sold 10 million copies and 2 of its 4 singles were ballads (Keep On Lovin You, Take It On the Run). Paradise lacked that third top 10 single to catapult it into huge sales - no additional ballads (either from Dennis or Tommy). A major reason why Styx's biggest album wasn't as big as it could have been...

Is "Take It On The Run" really a ballad? I see your point about that third single though, and like we've talked about before, it seemed like every Styx album always fell apart after the first or second single. Taking "PT" as it was, they already had a great hit ballad just waiting to happen, and that ladies and gentlemen was "She Cares".. Seriously though, I've said it before, and I'll say it again, "Rockin' The Paradise", while obviously not a ballad, would have been the obvious choice. I still don't understand what exactly A&M, Styx, or DDY were thinking on that one.

I've always found it interesting that "The Grand Illusion", for as big as it was, only had "Come Sail Away" and "Fooling Yourself".

BlackWall wrote:Is "Take It On The Run" really a ballad? I see your point about that third single though, and like we've talked about before, it seemed like every Styx album always fell apart after the first or second single. Taking "PT" as it was, they already had a great hit ballad just waiting to happen, and that ladies and gentlemen was "She Cares".. Seriously though, I've said it before, and I'll say it again, "Rockin' The Paradise", while obviously not a ballad, would have been the obvious choice. I still don't understand what exactly A&M, Styx, or DDY were thinking on that one.

I've always found it interesting that "The Grand Illusion", for as big as it was, only had "Come Sail Away" and "Fooling Yourself".

I think part of reason with The Grand Illusion was that they released new albums so frequently back then that they went on to POE. It might not have anything to do with it but just a thought.

That could be Toph, but you also have to remember that A&M played a huge role also in the amount of albums Styx sold.. Have to wonder what would have happened if Styx wouldn't have been on A&M but would have released Equinox on a different label..

Would we still be here today talking about them?

Snowblind should have been their third release. It starts out and is similiar to Renegade and it would have been a HUGE hit back in the day.

BIG mistake that it was not a single.

Rockin The Paradise should have been released fourth. I also believe that song would have made it into the top 40.

Still that album did hit #1 and was pretty popular.

Just my 2 cents worth, not its back to Mike Reno on the Food Network!!

Jodes wrote:That could be Toph, but you also have to remember that A&M played a huge role also in the amount of albums Styx sold.. Have to wonder what would have happened if Styx wouldn't have been on A&M but would have released Equinox on a different label.. Would we still be here today talking about them?

Probobly not just be glad they weren't with epic records. Could you imagine styx/reo on the same label?

BlackWall wrote:Is "Take It On The Run" really a ballad? I see your point about that third single though, and like we've talked about before, it seemed like every Styx album always fell apart after the first or second single. Taking "PT" as it was, they already had a great hit ballad just waiting to happen, and that ladies and gentlemen was "She Cares".. Seriously though, I've said it before, and I'll say it again, "Rockin' The Paradise", while obviously not a ballad, would have been the obvious choice. I still don't understand what exactly A&M, Styx, or DDY were thinking on that one.

I've always found it interesting that "The Grand Illusion", for as big as it was, only had "Come Sail Away" and "Fooling Yourself".

Actually Rockin The Paradise was released - it was released as a "Rcok track" and charted very highly on what was then a very new Rock Chart. I believe it went to #8 according to Billboard - so it was widely played on "rock" vs. "pop" stations. Would it have made a good pop single? Maybe. I think it had 2 things going against it.

1. AD 1928 - No way that could have been included on a single as it is the same tune as Best Of Times. Confusion would be rampant. Now they could have re-recorded the start of RTP without Dennis's ending note of " ' dise" from AD 1928 (something that still bugs me on my IPOD if I have it on random and RTP comes on - you get the 'dise from AD1928.

2. Too hard rock? - Would it have been too hard rock for 1981 pop radio? Not sure - it definitely is harder than TMTOMH but I don't think it is nearly as hard rock as BCM or Renegade which charted on the pop chart 3 years prior.

Still think they missed by not included a cross over type 3rd single on the album.

yogi wrote:Snowblind should have been their third release. It starts out and is similiar to Renegade and it would have been a HUGE hit back in the day.

BIG mistake that it was not a single.

Rockin The Paradise should have been released fourth. I also believe that song would have made it into the top 40.

Still that album did hit #1 and was pretty popular.

Just my 2 cents worth, not its back to Mike Reno on the Food Network!!

I have to disagree with you on Snowblind. That also was released to what was "rock radio" back then and charted at like 22 or something - not nearly as big a hit as RTP on the Rock charts. I think Snowblind is too "spooky" to be a mainstream pop hit. Its not very catchy for a pop audience. The guitar solo, as strong as it was for rock audiences, would probably have alienated the pop stations.

Don't get me wrong - Paradise is a GREAT album and on many days it is my favorite Styx album. But it missed two things - a third Tommy Shaw song (pop driven/acoustical) and a second Dennis ballad. Put those on there and it sells every bit as many copies as ESC4P3 or Hi Infidelity.

To me it was very similar to Renegade and Renegade was a big pop hit.

It's 10X's better and even more mainstream than Nothing Ever Goes As Planned is.

yogi wrote:To me it was very similar to Renegade and Renegade was a big pop hit.

It's 10X's better and even more mainstream than Nothing Ever Goes As Planned is.

Agree -NEGAP was a poor choice, but I still don't see Snowblind being mainstream enough for the pop charts. Do you notice how the jazzy DDY songs - Why Me, NEGAP, and High Time kept getting released as singles and kept doing nothing on the charts? At some point, you have to realize that those type of tunes aren't a fit with your audience...

yogi wrote:To me it was very similar to Renegade and Renegade was a big pop hit.

It's 10X's better and even more mainstream than Nothing Ever Goes As Planned is.

Except it is sung by JY...... don't see that going over well back then. Not on radio.

Just the mirror, mirror on the wall part.

The rest is sung by Tommy.

Dennis wrote it.

This song was a TOTAL Styx collaboration, and should have been release #3.

yogi wrote:Just the mirror, mirror on the wall part.

The rest is sung by Tommy.

Dennis wrote it.

This song was a TOTAL Styx collaboration, and should have been release #3.

Man, I must listen again because my only recollection of the song now is that it was JY singing.

I LOVED PT, I had just been 'schooled' on Styx when this released. I always preferred RTP to Best Of Times and hate that it is never played on radio and I don't think it is included on the GH packages. Although my Styx knowledge is extremely rusty. Still, I agree completely that there were not enough singles. Doesn't really matter what the next song was, as long as it was released and promoted. I think the band was on a roll and could've sold any of the songs.

I do remember hearing RTP on my local rock radio station. It was pretty popular, as I recall.

Lonely People is a great, great song, but would have been a lousy single. And the fact that it was hooked to that long, barely audible spoken intro did not help.

The copy of PT I listen to regularly is one I made where I ripped out that portion before Lonely People.


Bugsy

bugsymalone wrote:I do remember hearing RTP on my local rock radio station. It was pretty popular, as I recall.

Lonely People is a great, great song, but would have been a lousy single. And the fact that it was hooked to that long, barely audible spoken intro did not help.

The copy of PT I listen to regularly is one I made where I ripped out that portion before Lonely People.


Bugsy

How do you do that? How do you edit down songs for example on I tunes? Also is there a way to fade them out early?

Toph wrote:

bugsymalone wrote:I do remember hearing RTP on my local rock radio station. It was pretty popular, as I recall.

Lonely People is a great, great song, but would have been a lousy single. And the fact that it was hooked to that long, barely audible spoken intro did not help.

The copy of PT I listen to regularly is one I made where I ripped out that portion before Lonely People.


Bugsy

How do you do that? How do you edit down songs for example on I tunes? Also is there a way to fade them out early?

I use a sound editing program. There are many out there.


Bugsy

Certainly not to defend their ability or better yet inability to pick the next single, but... In comparison to Escape and Hi Infidelity, Paradise Theatre was an album that was/is much better as a whole and not as singles. Some of it relates as singles but when you take it apart it's not as good as it is all together. From my rusty memory Escape and Hi Infidelity were much more ripe for the picking of singles.

I agree that "PT" definitely works as a complete album. Songs like "Lonely People" and "Half Penny Two Penny" work great to carry the concept, but wouldn't have really worked as singles.

Had "Rockin' The Paradise" been released, I always imagined they would have released a radio edit that would have featured the intro similar to the way it's done on "Caught In The Act'; sans "A.D. 1928".

I don't think "RTP" was too heavy for pop radio, but the only thing I do see working against it is the way some of the lyrics flow; almost making it a little too wordy between choruses. Or, another thought is that maybe they even thought it sounded a little too old school rock and roll for the '80s(Just a thought). In any case I still think it could have worked.

"Snowblind" might have as well, but I'm not so sure about the intro. "Renegade" intro had the harmony and drums going for it, but you never know. Actually, when did the controversy start over the backward messages? Was it at the time of the release of the album or later on? If it was while the album was still new, then they should have gone for it, the public always eats up controversy.

BlackWall wrote:I agree that "PT" definitely works as a complete album. Songs like "Lonely People" and "Half Penny Two Penny" work great to carry the concept, but wouldn't have really worked as singles.

Had "Rockin' The Paradise" been released, I always imagined they would have released a radio edit that would have featured the intro similar to the way it's done on "Caught In The Act'; sans "A.D. 1928".

I don't think "RTP" was too heavy for pop radio, but the only thing I do see working against it is the way some of the lyrics flow; almost making it a little too wordy between choruses. Or, another thought is that maybe they even thought it sounded a little too old school rock and roll for the '80s(Just a thought). In any case I still think it could have worked.

"Snowblind" might have as well, but I'm not so sure about the intro. "Renegade" intro had the harmony and drums going for it, but you never know. Actually, when did the controversy start over the backward messages? Was it at the time of the release of the album or later on? If it was while the album was still new, then they should have gone for it, the public always eats up controversy.

Just to add to the discussion, according to allmusic.com that uses Billboard charts, here are the singles from Paradise Theatre and where they peaked. Top 10 singles on respective charts are in BOLD.


1981 The Best Of Times Mainstream Rock - 16
1981 The Best Of Times The Billboard Hot 100 - 3
1981 Too Much Time On My Hands Mainstream Rock - 2
1981 Too Much Time On My Hands The Billboard Hot 100 - 9
1981 Nothing Ever Goes As Planned The Billboard Hot 100 - 54
1981 Rockin' The Paradise Mainstream Rock - 8
1981 Snowblind Mainstream Rock - 22

According to this, the theory that Rockin The Paradise could have done well as a pop single is well supported by how well it did on Mainstream Rock. I didn't realize how well TMTMOH did on the rock charts . But RTP was also a top 10 smash on the rock track charts. I still am befuddled at how the geniuses at A&M didn't think that was worth inclusion on Styx Greatest Hits. But whatever... Snowblind and NEGAP both seem like late singles that were released after interest in the album had begun to fade...