MR

So, I'm listening to Paradise Theatre this morning in its entirety. First, the album is brilliant on so many levels and the production quality is awesome. It really was a return to the greatness of Grand Illusion for Styx. That being said, I began wondering how "She Cares" made the cut to get on the album. I know it takes its share of ribbing - it is pure bubble gum pop, and while a very catchy tune, just feels a bit out of place. Lyrically, I don't see the connection with what Paradise Theater is all about. I guess you could stretch and say that it is taking place right after WW2 within the context of 1928-1958 ("I tried to be the perfect soldier"), but outside of that doesn't seem like it has much applicability to the concept and I wonder why Dennis, who wanted everything to fit, left it on there. What does the subject matter have to do with literally the theatre being torn down and more symbolically, what does it have to do with the decline of America in the late 1970s?

And why did DDY leave it in?

Appreciate any insights.

Toph wrote:So, I'm listening to Paradise Theatre this morning in its entirety. First, the album is brilliant on so many levels and the production quality is awesome. It really was a return to the greatness of Grand Illusion for Styx. That being said, I began wondering how "She Cares" made the cut to get on the album. I know it takes its share of ribbing - it is pure bubble gum pop, and while a very catchy tune, just feels a bit out of place. Lyrically, I don't see the connection with what Paradise Theater is all about. I guess you could stretch and say that it is taking place right after WW2 within the context of 1928-1958, but outside of that doesn't seem like it has much applicability to the concept and I wonder why Dennis, who wanted everything to fit, left it on there. What does the subject matter have to do with literally the theatre being torn down and more symbolically, what does it have to do with the decline of America in the late 1970s?

And why did DDY leave it in?

Appreciate any insights.

Maybe that's all Shaw had to offer at the time so they had to throw it in.
The song is trash, he should have been fired right then and there with that type of Barry Manilow effort.

I don't really give a shit what anyone thinks, I like the song...ALOT!

froy wrote:

Toph wrote:So, I'm listening to Paradise Theatre this morning in its entirety. First, the album is brilliant on so many levels and the production quality is awesome. It really was a return to the greatness of Grand Illusion for Styx. That being said, I began wondering how "She Cares" made the cut to get on the album. I know it takes its share of ribbing - it is pure bubble gum pop, and while a very catchy tune, just feels a bit out of place. Lyrically, I don't see the connection with what Paradise Theater is all about. I guess you could stretch and say that it is taking place right after WW2 within the context of 1928-1958, but outside of that doesn't seem like it has much applicability to the concept and I wonder why Dennis, who wanted everything to fit, left it on there. What does the subject matter have to do with literally the theatre being torn down and more symbolically, what does it have to do with the decline of America in the late 1970s?

And why did DDY leave it in?

Appreciate any insights.

Maybe that's all Shaw had to offer at the time so they had to throw it in.
The song is trash, he should have been fired right then and there with that type of Barry Manilow effort.

it's far better than babe and first time

DerriD wrote:I don't really give a shit what anyone thinks, I like the song...ALOT!

+1

chickenbeef wrote:

froy wrote:

Toph wrote:So, I'm listening to Paradise Theatre this morning in its entirety. First, the album is brilliant on so many levels and the production quality is awesome. It really was a return to the greatness of Grand Illusion for Styx. That being said, I began wondering how "She Cares" made the cut to get on the album. I know it takes its share of ribbing - it is pure bubble gum pop, and while a very catchy tune, just feels a bit out of place. Lyrically, I don't see the connection with what Paradise Theater is all about. I guess you could stretch and say that it is taking place right after WW2 within the context of 1928-1958, but outside of that doesn't seem like it has much applicability to the concept and I wonder why Dennis, who wanted everything to fit, left it on there. What does the subject matter have to do with literally the theatre being torn down and more symbolically, what does it have to do with the decline of America in the late 1970s?

And why did DDY leave it in?

Appreciate any insights.

Maybe that's all Shaw had to offer at the time so they had to throw it in.
The song is trash, he should have been fired right then and there with that type of Barry Manilow effort.

it's far better than babe and first time

Come on guys, I asked a legitimate question for purposes of discussion and you turn it into more DDY bashing. Chickenbeef, Everett, Nightbull - You were supposedly banned. How did you get back on? Andrew, can you please note that this guy has gotten back on.

Toph wrote:

chickenbeef wrote:

froy wrote:

Toph wrote:So, I'm listening to Paradise Theatre this morning in its entirety. First, the album is brilliant on so many levels and the production quality is awesome. It really was a return to the greatness of Grand Illusion for Styx. That being said, I began wondering how "She Cares" made the cut to get on the album. I know it takes its share of ribbing - it is pure bubble gum pop, and while a very catchy tune, just feels a bit out of place. Lyrically, I don't see the connection with what Paradise Theater is all about. I guess you could stretch and say that it is taking place right after WW2 within the context of 1928-1958, but outside of that doesn't seem like it has much applicability to the concept and I wonder why Dennis, who wanted everything to fit, left it on there. What does the subject matter have to do with literally the theatre being torn down and more symbolically, what does it have to do with the decline of America in the late 1970s?

And why did DDY leave it in?

Appreciate any insights.

Maybe that's all Shaw had to offer at the time so they had to throw it in.
The song is trash, he should have been fired right then and there with that type of Barry Manilow effort.

it's far better than babe and first time

Come on guys, I asked a legitimate question for purposes of discussion and you turn it into more DDY bashing. Chickenbeef, Everett, Nightbull - You were supposedly banned. How did you get back on? Andrew, can you please note that this guy has gotten back on.

Andrew knows were not the same person. Shouldn't you?

I would think it was all he had to offer at the time as well. I've got no problem with it other than "She Treats Me Like a Human"- lame lyric.

I DO like it better than "Nothing Ever Goes As Planned", but not by much.
Whether PT was a return to the greatness of GI is debatable. I think that PT was a very pop album, but it was a step up from Cornerstone. I like Cornerstone, but there are 2 tracks there that just really screwed that album as a listening experience (First Time and Eddie).

froy wrote:

Toph wrote:So, I'm listening to Paradise Theatre this morning in its entirety. First, the album is brilliant on so many levels and the production quality is awesome. It really was a return to the greatness of Grand Illusion for Styx. That being said, I began wondering how "She Cares" made the cut to get on the album. I know it takes its share of ribbing - it is pure bubble gum pop, and while a very catchy tune, just feels a bit out of place. Lyrically, I don't see the connection with what Paradise Theater is all about. I guess you could stretch and say that it is taking place right after WW2 within the context of 1928-1958, but outside of that doesn't seem like it has much applicability to the concept and I wonder why Dennis, who wanted everything to fit, left it on there. What does the subject matter have to do with literally the theatre being torn down and more symbolically, what does it have to do with the decline of America in the late 1970s?

And why did DDY leave it in?

Appreciate any insights.

Maybe that's all Shaw had to offer at the time so they had to throw it in.
The song is trash, he should have been fired right then and there with that type of Barry Manilow effort.

First Time is no gem either does that mean they should have canned DDY just for that song? I could see Barry Manilow singing either of them.

chickenbeef wrote:

froy wrote:

Toph wrote:So, I'm listening to Paradise Theatre this morning in its entirety. First, the album is brilliant on so many levels and the production quality is awesome. It really was a return to the greatness of Grand Illusion for Styx. That being said, I began wondering how "She Cares" made the cut to get on the album. I know it takes its share of ribbing - it is pure bubble gum pop, and while a very catchy tune, just feels a bit out of place. Lyrically, I don't see the connection with what Paradise Theater is all about. I guess you could stretch and say that it is taking place right after WW2 within the context of 1928-1958, but outside of that doesn't seem like it has much applicability to the concept and I wonder why Dennis, who wanted everything to fit, left it on there. What does the subject matter have to do with literally the theatre being torn down and more symbolically, what does it have to do with the decline of America in the late 1970s?

And why did DDY leave it in?

Appreciate any insights.

Maybe that's all Shaw had to offer at the time so they had to throw it in.
The song is trash, he should have been fired right then and there with that type of Barry Manilow effort.

it's far better than babe and first time

Can't say I agree, just as pointless. Maybe TS was trying to create a song that would get air play, like Babe?

I have to say, I admit "She Cares" is not in the same league as the rest of "Paradise Theatre", but is it really THAT bad??
Just about any classic album I can think of off the top of my head has at least a song or two of fluff or filler. I would also have to go with the major consenus that Tommy didn't have much up his sleeve at that point in the game. Actually, much to his own delight(I'm sure), he did much better on "Kilroy".

"Boomchild

Maybe that's all Shaw had to offer at the time so they had to throw it in.
The song is trash, he should have been fired right then and there with that type of Barry Manilow effort.

First Time is no gem either does that mean they should have canned DDY just for that song? I could see Barry Manilow singing either of them.[/quote]

Hey Shaw was quitting because of it.

BlackWall wrote:I have to say, I admit "She Cares" is not in the same league as the rest of "Paradise Theatre", but is it really THAT bad??

Yes it is really that bad. Cold War is also really that bad,
HWBHB is a good one that makes up for both.

brywool wrote:
I DO like it better than "Nothing Ever Goes As Planned", but not by much.

NEGAP is a great song, Love it

I like Cornerstone, but there are 2 tracks there that just really screwed that album as a listening experience (First Time and Eddie).

YEP

it's my understanding that tommy had nearly contributed nothing to the album (even too much time on my hands was one of the last tunes to be brought in for PT). anyway, they all knew that tommy was an important and viable voice of the band and that he had to have his "moments" on the album to satisfy their fan base. she cares was probably one of the best things he had at the time or maybe one of the only things. so boom it makes it.

now with that said.....i understand that it is poppy and doesnt change the world but I have always like the song alot!

also, someone mentioned their dislike of eddie earlier and i think that it is a great song as well! first time and babe were really the only songs i dont liek very much on cornerstone. although babe is decent i'm just really tired of it.

masque wrote:it's my understanding that tommy had nearly contributed nothing to the album (even too much time on my hands was one of the last tunes to be brought in for PT). anyway, they all knew that tommy was an important and viable voice of the band and that he had to have his "moments" on the album to satisfy their fan base. she cares was probably one of the best things he had at the time or maybe one of the only things. so boom it makes it.

now with that said.....i understand that it is poppy and doesnt change the world but I have always like the song alot!

also, someone mentioned their dislike of eddie earlier and i think that it is a great song as well! first time and babe were really the only songs i dont liek very much on cornerstone. although babe is decent i'm just really tired of it.

For whatever my opinion is worth, I also don't think "She Cares" is really bad, though I agree it has nothing to do with the theme of the album. I think it's very different from what fans expect from Styx, but why is that bad? I like when bands step outside their box. I think it's a strong melody and a great vocal, and I like the production of the track. I like Tommy's solo and the sax solo, and I like Dennis' piano lines, too. The thing about 'treats me like a human", yeah, that's kinda silly, but it doesn't ruin the song for me. Is it the best song Tommy ever wrote? No, but it sure as hell isn't the worst one, either.

He mentioned to me once that he had submitted some stuff and had it shot down by the other guys, so I wonder if maybe he wrote some stuff that didn't make it onto PT? I don't know the timeline, but I believe he wrote "Little Girl World" around that time - and if so, I'm glad it was shot down. I think he might have written "Fading Away" around that time, too, but I don't know if he ever submitted it for Styx.

By his own admission, he was in a creative slump at that time due to drugs and alcohol. Watch the live video from the Budokan at the end of the PT tour and you'll see what I mean; he looks bad, plays poorly and does not sing well at all. It's not like it's a secret. I think it's kind of a miracle that his contributions to KILROY were as good as they were, really, given his state at the time. But I do recall Tommy saying he didn't think his contribution to KILROY was that great - which I disagree with, because I thought "Just Get Through This Night" and "Haven't We Been Here Before" were both terrific.

Sterling

Rockwriter wrote:

masque wrote:it's my understanding that tommy had nearly contributed nothing to the album (even too much time on my hands was one of the last tunes to be brought in for PT). anyway, they all knew that tommy was an important and viable voice of the band and that he had to have his "moments" on the album to satisfy their fan base. she cares was probably one of the best things he had at the time or maybe one of the only things. so boom it makes it.

now with that said.....i understand that it is poppy and doesnt change the world but I have always like the song alot!

also, someone mentioned their dislike of eddie earlier and i think that it is a great song as well! first time and babe were really the only songs i dont liek very much on cornerstone. although babe is decent i'm just really tired of it.

For whatever my opinion is worth, I also don't think "She Cares" is really bad, though I agree it has nothing to do with the theme of the album. I think it's very different from what fans expect from Styx, but why is that bad? I like when bands step outside their box. I think it's a strong melody and a great vocal, and I like the production of the track. I like Tommy's solo and the sax solo, and I like Dennis' piano lines, too. The thing about 'treats me like a human", yeah, that's kinda silly, but it doesn't ruin the song for me. Is it the best song Tommy ever wrote? No, but it sure as hell isn't the worst one, either.

He mentioned to me once that he had submitted some stuff and had it shot down by the other guys, so I wonder if maybe he wrote some stuff that didn't make it onto PT? I don't know the timeline, but I believe he wrote "Little Girl World" around that time - and if so, I'm glad it was shot down. I think he might have written "Fading Away" around that time, too, but I don't know if he ever submitted it for Styx.

By his own admission, he was in a creative slump at that time due to drugs and alcohol. Watch the live video from the Budokan at the end of the PT tour and you'll see what I mean; he looks bad, plays poorly and does not sing well at all. It's not like it's a secret. I think it's kind of a miracle that his contributions to KILROY were as good as they were, really, given his state at the time. But I do recall Tommy saying he didn't think his contribution to KILROY was that great - which I disagree with, because I thought "Just Get Through This Night" and "Haven't We Been Here Before" were both terrific.

Sterling

yeh i agree with you for sure on just get thru this night and havnt we been here before.....both great tunes and i'll also say that i like cold war as well...parts of the song are better than other parts but the section right before the chorus leading up to the chorus is terrific.

Toph wrote:Come on guys, I asked a legitimate question for purposes of discussion and you turn it into more DDY bashing. Chickenbeef, Everett, Nightbull - You were supposedly banned. How did you get back on? Andrew, can you please note that this guy has gotten back on.

They were given a holiday. Next time it will be much longer...