MR

I want to ask you blind loyalists who think DDY is so awful because he brought Styx into the 80s with the rock ballad one question - why do you give similar acts that did the EXACT SAME THING a pass when you are so critical of Styx? In the 1980s Styx had 3 charted ballads - one each of CS, PT, and KWH. But you look at their peers and they went even further on the ballad route, but you give them a pass.

Examples

Journey - starting in 1981 - Escape 4 singles, 3 ballads, Frontiers, 4 singles, 2 ballads, ROR - 4 singles, 1 ballad - 6 charted ballads
REO Speedwagon - starting in 1981 - Hi Infidelity 4 singles, 2 ballads, Good Trouble, 2 singles, 1 ballad, Wheels Are Turnin 4 singles, 2 ballads, Life As We Know it - 3 singles, 1 ballad, The Hits, new single - ballad = 7 ballads
Foreigner - starting in 1981 - 4 - 3 singles, 1 ballad, Agent Provacateur 2 singles, 1 ballad, Inside Information, 2 singles, 1 ballad = 3 ballads

I never see the three bands above slammed by you people for going the ballad route. Their fans aren't hung up about it. The only people that are hung up about ballads seem to be the bathwater drinkers of Tommy Shaw because that is the argument he likes to point out. In truth, that argument holds, pardon the pun, no bathwater....

Show your true colors - this isn't about ballads, it is about a fundamental issue with DDY. Just admit it already.

Toph wrote:I want to ask you blind loyalists who think DDY is so awful because he brought Styx into the 80s with the rock ballad one question - why do you give similar acts that did the EXACT SAME THING a pass when you are so critical of Styx? In the 1980s Styx had 3 charted ballads - one each of CS, PT, and KWH. But you look at their peers and they went even further on the ballad route, but you give them a pass.

Examples

Journey - starting in 1981 - Escape 4 singles, 3 ballads, Frontiers, 4 singles, 2 ballads, ROR - 4 singles, 1 ballad - 6 charted ballads
REO Speedwagon - starting in 1981 - Hi Infidelity 4 singles, 2 ballads, Good Trouble, 2 singles, 1 ballad, Wheels Are Turnin 4 singles, 2 ballads, Life As We Know it - 3 singles, 1 ballad, The Hits, new single - ballad = 7 ballads
Foreigner - starting in 1981 - 4 - 3 singles, 1 ballad, Agent Provacateur 2 singles, 1 ballad, Inside Information, 2 singles, 1 ballad = 3 ballads

I never see the three bands above slammed by you people for going the ballad route. Their fans aren't hung up about it. The only people that are hung up about ballads seem to be the bathwater drinkers of Tommy Shaw because that is the argument he likes to point out. In truth, that argument holds, pardon the pun, no bathwater....

Show your true colors - this isn't about ballads, it is about a fundamental issue with DDY. Just admit it already.

OK,I admit it.

gr8dane wrote:

Toph wrote:I want to ask you blind loyalists who think DDY is so awful because he brought Styx into the 80s with the rock ballad one question - why do you give similar acts that did the EXACT SAME THING a pass when you are so critical of Styx? In the 1980s Styx had 3 charted ballads - one each of CS, PT, and KWH. But you look at their peers and they went even further on the ballad route, but you give them a pass.

Examples

Journey - starting in 1981 - Escape 4 singles, 3 ballads, Frontiers, 4 singles, 2 ballads, ROR - 4 singles, 1 ballad - 6 charted ballads
REO Speedwagon - starting in 1981 - Hi Infidelity 4 singles, 2 ballads, Good Trouble, 2 singles, 1 ballad, Wheels Are Turnin 4 singles, 2 ballads, Life As We Know it - 3 singles, 1 ballad, The Hits, new single - ballad = 7 ballads
Foreigner - starting in 1981 - 4 - 3 singles, 1 ballad, Agent Provacateur 2 singles, 1 ballad, Inside Information, 2 singles, 1 ballad = 3 ballads

I never see the three bands above slammed by you people for going the ballad route. Their fans aren't hung up about it. The only people that are hung up about ballads seem to be the bathwater drinkers of Tommy Shaw because that is the argument he likes to point out. In truth, that argument holds, pardon the pun, no bathwater....

Show your true colors - this isn't about ballads, it is about a fundamental issue with DDY. Just admit it already.

OK,I admit it.

I admit it as well, although i'm not sure what i'm admitting

Geez, here we go again...

First, let's get one thing straight- REO SUCKS. Okay, moving on...
The other bands, other than Journey, I don't really listen to much.

Journey's ballads from that time were decently written and produced not to mention sung and played well. The solos that Neal Schon played in those songs were really great and they weren't lyrically brain dead (ala First Time) or stupid (Mr. Roboto). They were actual love songs meant for an adult-ish audience.

First Time was a piece of crap aimed at 14 year old girls. Terrible song from start to finish. It NEVER should've been a Styx song. If any other band had put that out, I'd have said the same thing.

DeYoung's done a lot of ballady-type stuff- much of it crap, much of it Great. Goodbye to Roseland, The beginning of Lady, The beginning of Come Sail Away, Ballerina, Etc. All good.

There are only a few of Dennis songs I don't really dig- Roboto, First Time, High Crimes, High Time, Nothing Ever Goes As Planned, Back to Chicago.

Most everything else is pretty decent in his Styx years. During his solo time, there were indeed some horrible songs written (Boys will be Boys- sheesh!). He also has some gems "Harry's Hands", "Desert Moon", etc.

I'm not a blind loyalist. If it's good, I'll say it is. First Time is not and the fact that a guy keeps banging that drum really has me wondering...

reo doesn't suck you suck

Toph wrote:I want to ask you blind loyalists who think DDY is so awful because he brought Styx into the 80s with the rock ballad one question - why do you give similar acts that did the EXACT SAME THING a pass when you are so critical of Styx? In the 1980s Styx had 3 charted ballads - one each of CS, PT, and KWH. But you look at their peers and they went even further on the ballad route, but you give them a pass.

Examples

Journey - starting in 1981 - Escape 4 singles, 3 ballads, Frontiers, 4 singles, 2 ballads, ROR - 4 singles, 1 ballad - 6 charted ballads
REO Speedwagon - starting in 1981 - Hi Infidelity 4 singles, 2 ballads, Good Trouble, 2 singles, 1 ballad, Wheels Are Turnin 4 singles, 2 ballads, Life As We Know it - 3 singles, 1 ballad, The Hits, new single - ballad = 7 ballads
Foreigner - starting in 1981 - 4 - 3 singles, 1 ballad, Agent Provacateur 2 singles, 1 ballad, Inside Information, 2 singles, 1 ballad = 3 ballads

I never see the three bands above slammed by you people for going the ballad route. Their fans aren't hung up about it. The only people that are hung up about ballads seem to be the bathwater drinkers of Tommy Shaw because that is the argument he likes to point out. In truth, that argument holds, pardon the pun, no bathwater....

Show your true colors - this isn't about ballads, it is about a fundamental issue with DDY. Just admit it already.

because those songs are great and not cringe inducing

Nothing wrong with ballads if done well. Babe, First Time, Don't Let it End are syrupy sweet and cringe worthy.

Everett wrote:reo doesn't suck you suck

God, Cronin's voice is just one long RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR


CANNOT stand him.

And yeah, they really do suck.

Toph
Froy



Just Be.
Just Be.

brywool wrote:

Everett wrote:reo doesn't suck you suck

God, Cronin's voice is just one long RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR


CANNOT stand him.

And yeah, they really do suck.

They suck now yes but nothing can hold a candle to classic reo

brywool wrote:Toph
Froy



Just Be.
Just Be.

I don't think either of them listened to that song bry. Which is a shame cause tommy's solo in that one is killer imo.

birdynumnum wrote:Nothing wrong with ballads if done well. Babe, First Time, Don't Let it End are syrupy sweet and cringe worthy.

Those are the only type of songs that ddy knows how to write. The last great rock song he "wrote" was csa.

Everett wrote:

birdynumnum wrote:Nothing wrong with ballads if done well. Babe, First Time, Don't Let it End are syrupy sweet and cringe worthy.

Those are the only type of songs that ddy knows how to write. The last great rock song he "wrote" was csa.

Check out "100 Years From Now", there a couple of decent ones there. "Private Jones" is pretty cool as is "Turn Off CNN" Up to that song, the last one seemed to be "Boomchild" which would've made a great Styx tune. "Rockin' the Paradise" was the last one I remember him doing with Styx... oh, and "Music Time" too. He did "Not Dead Yet" but only sang it. It was written by somebody else.

By the way- Was that song a record-company mandate or something? Seemed weird that Styx had a song written by an outside writer on one of their A&M albums... also seemed weird in their Rockline interview from then, they kind of didn't spend much time on questions about that one.

Everett wrote:

birdynumnum wrote:Nothing wrong with ballads if done well. Babe, First Time, Don't Let it End are syrupy sweet and cringe worthy.

Those are the only type of songs that ddy knows how to write. The last great rock song he "wrote" was csa.

I was gonna say 'Queen of spades',but then I had to check my cd,and what do you know,JY helped write that one.
Again JY comes to the rescue.

who's hypo chrissy?

Bearded Clam wrote:who's hypo chrissy?

Toph's ex perhaps?

jonathan cain killed journey. they were much more interesting with greg rollie, and i find steve perry's voice cringe inducing most of the time. reo-ick. like foreigner ok, need to hear songs like rev on the red line or starrider more often.

This is interesting. It's always bothered me that Styx has been bashed for their softer side, but the other groups got away with it. However, I do think, unfortunately, there's something to be said for DDY's style. He's a hell of a singer; he writes some great songs; he's a great producer/arranger, but the guy can come across as corny.. it's just him. That doesn't mean that his ballads are bad, but you just have to be the sort of person to appreciate them. Take, for instance, "Babe", and "Faithfully" by Journey. Both basically about the same thing, right? There are things to admire about both songs, but Dennis has the greeting card sentiment, where "Faithfully" is a little more poetic. Truthfully, it wouldn't have hurt Dennis to reflect back on some of his older material for inspiration when he began writing the ballads, for the simple fact that Dennis is an artist, and can be creative and poetic, but for whatever reason, he always played it relatively safe when he began writing love songs, and for that reason, a lot of them come across as a little paint by number.

stmonkeys wrote:jonathan cain killed journey. they were much more interesting with greg rollie, and i find steve perry's voice cringe inducing most of the time. reo-ick. like foreigner ok, need to hear songs like rev on the red line or starrider more often.

You can talk about 'Friga"till the cows come home.OMG!!!! You did not say that about Steve freaking Perry. He had & voice like no other.Some say & i as well a voice of an Angel.He & sockboy just had to crack the stone.

BlackWall wrote:This is interesting. It's always bothered me that Styx has been bashed for their softer side, but the other groups got away with it. However, I do think, unfortunately, there's something to be said for DDY's style. He's a hell of a singer; he writes some great songs; he's a great producer/arranger, but the guy can come across as corny.. it's just him. That doesn't mean that his ballads are bad, but you just have to be the sort of person to appreciate them. Take, for instance, "Babe", and "Faithfully" by Journey. Both basically about the same thing, right? There are things to admire about both songs, but Dennis has the greeting card sentiment, where "Faithfully" is a little more poetic. Truthfully, it wouldn't have hurt Dennis to reflect back on some of his older material for inspiration when he began writing the ballads, for the simple fact that Dennis is an artist, and can be creative and poetic, but for whatever reason, he always played it relatively safe when he began writing love songs, and for that reason, a lot of them come across as a little paint by number.

"Faithfully" is so beautiful it makes you cry.& "Open Arms" leaves me in a puddle DDY never made me feel that way.But still DDY is great in his own way.

Babyblue wrote:

stmonkeys wrote:jonathan cain killed journey. they were much more interesting with greg rollie, and i find steve perry's voice cringe inducing most of the time. reo-ick. like foreigner ok, need to hear songs like rev on the red line or starrider more often.

You can talk about 'Friga"till the cows come home.OMG!!!! You did not say that about Steve freaking Perry. He had & voice like no other.Some say & i as well a voice of an Angel.He & sockboy just had to crack the stone.

I saw Perry and Journey from 1979 to 1986, Nobody ran the show like Perry, His voice blew everyone away, The drugs and fame just were to much for him to handle and that's why he quit in 86, As far as anyone cracking the stone it was just poor Steve not excepting his responsibility for holding up JRNY, If he would have at least said hey I will be ready in x amount of time no stone would have been cracked, instead he just walked away and never came back, In fact till this day.

i think journey's ballads are more powerful and seem more real to me. styx, reo and foreigner's ballads seemed a little more corny and forced to my ears. doesnt mean they are all bad songs but even as a lifelong styx fan I can tell you that faithfully, open arms and who's crying now are lots better than babe and dont let it end.

now i dont know where best of times fits in with people....i dont really consider it a ballad but i know some people that do. so if you consider best of times a ballad then it is up there and on par with or better than anything any of those bands did that were considered ballads.

best of times is one DDY's and styx's shining moments.

I am not a fan of ballads. DDY wrote ballads for a ROCK band and I disliked it. I am not a fan of stirring up sh*t for the sake of stirring up sh*t therefore, I dislike most of your posts. Simple logic. What don't you get?

froy wrote:

Babyblue wrote:

stmonkeys wrote:jonathan cain killed journey. they were much more interesting with greg rollie, and i find steve perry's voice cringe inducing most of the time. reo-ick. like foreigner ok, need to hear songs like rev on the red line or starrider more often.

You can talk about 'Friga"till the cows come home.OMG!!!! You did not say that about Steve freaking Perry. He had & voice like no other.Some say & i as well a voice of an Angel.He & sockboy just had to crack the stone.

I saw Perry and Journey from 1979 to 1986, Nobody ran the show like Perry, His voice blew everyone away, The drugs and fame just were to much for him to handle and that's why he quit in 86, As far as anyone cracking the stone it was just poor Steve not excepting his responsibility for holding up JRNY, If he would have at least said hey I will be ready in x amount of time no stone would have been cracked, instead he just walked away and never came back, In fact till this day.

That is cool you saw them.I was lucky to see them 3 times.You are right on Mr P, was great at what he did.But just how do you know it was drugs??????Well let me put it this way for you.Don't go and tell someone to go and have surgery.That is something you do when you are ready & not before.On top of it you nor i or anyone else knows why he walked away.He did say at one time he was toast.

I didnt think that he could walk away because of his hip.

He more or less limped away.

The real battle between the members of Styx over the direction of the band isn't Dennis vs The others, although that is how ity is presented. The issue was what the band was being identified as. The issue was are we known a pop ballad band or are we known as a rock bandthat has some ballads. Obviously, a majority of the band members wanted to be part of a band that was identified as a rock band. The reality they are both, and you are what you are. Essentially that was the issue. And First Time was in the mind of those that wanted Styx to be known as a rock band felt First Time was the straw that broke the camels back in their identity for ever.

yogi wrote:I didnt think that he could walk away because of his hip.

He more or less limped away.

That he did.