MR

Question for you guys. Do you think if it didn't have babe/first time would it have garnered as much heat from fans/ the band as it did?

all the other songs are great but those two are just sooooo bad they bring the whole album down

Born4adventure wrote:all the other songs are great but those two are just sooooo bad they bring the whole album down

Not so

I like both songs.

I too liked both songs even if it did intrude on Barry's territory.

I thought Cornerstone was an EXCELLENT album!! I only disliked one song, and at the time(8th grade) I couldnt figure out why Styx would record a song like 'Boat On The River'. I thought that song was aweful and I couldnt fathom why Styx would include such a song on one of their albums.

Only now do I kow it was because Tommy had 'rock in his soul and he needed to rock out'.

P.S. Now I like the song very much. At 14 though I thought that it sucked.

When I saw the band during "RTP", as Dennis was breaking into that keyboard intro, I heard a guy behind me tell his friend how he didn't like ANYTHING from THAT album..

yogi wrote:I too liked both songs even if it did intrude on Barry's territory.

I thought Cornerstone was an EXCELLENT album!! I only disliked one song, and at the time(8th grade) I couldnt figure out why Styx would record a song like 'Boat On The River'. I thought that song was aweful and I couldnt fathom why Styx would include such a song on one of their albums.

Only now do I kow it was because Tommy had 'rock in his soul and he needed to rock out'.

P.S. Now I like the song very much. At 14 though I thought that it sucked.

At the time some band members were worried about how fans were going to react to "Babe and "First Time". Just goes to show you you can't really know how fans are going to react to new material.

Boomchild wrote:

yogi wrote:I too liked both songs even if it did intrude on Barry's territory.

I thought Cornerstone was an EXCELLENT album!! I only disliked one song, and at the time(8th grade) I couldnt figure out why Styx would record a song like 'Boat On The River'. I thought that song was aweful and I couldnt fathom why Styx would include such a song on one of their albums.

Only now do I kow it was because Tommy had 'rock in his soul and he needed to rock out'.

P.S. Now I like the song very much. At 14 though I thought that it sucked.

At the time some band members were worried about how fans were going to react to "Babe and "First Time". Just goes to show you you can't really know how fans are going to react to new material.

True

BlackWall wrote:When I saw the band during "RTP", as Dennis was breaking into that keyboard intro, I heard a guy behind me tell his friend how he didn't like ANYTHING from THAT album..

That was probably me

Cornerstone would of been a complete scrap heap without Babe on it, for sure would of been a commercial flop. Eddie was by far the worst song on the album.

Everett wrote:Question for you guys. Do you think if it didn't have babe/first time would it have garnered as much heat from fans/ the band as it did?

It probably would have failed commercially without "Babe", seeing as how there's really no other commercially viable song on there. Why do you think A&M chose that song? Because it tested well! Marketing 101. Not that difficult.


Sterling

Rockwriter wrote:

Everett wrote:Question for you guys. Do you think if it didn't have babe/first time would it have garnered as much heat from fans/ the band as it did?

It probably would have failed commercially without "Babe", seeing as how there's really no other commercially viable song on there. Why do you think A&M chose that song? Because it tested well! Marketing 101. Not that difficult.


Sterling

is boat on the river not the most known styx song in the world?

Born4adventure wrote:is boat on the river not the most known styx song in the world?

Arguably yes, but the largest market for Styx was and is the USA. BotR was not a hit here.

Without "Babe" and "First Time 101", "Cornerstone" probably would have been ranked higher among the people who were already fans, but as Rock Writer pointed out, it probably wouldn't have had a big hit. Although, coming off of hits such as "Blue Collar Man" and "Renegade", I've often wondered what would have happened had they tried "Borrowed Time" first.

StyxCollector wrote:

Born4adventure wrote:is boat on the river not the most known styx song in the world?

Arguably yes, but the largest market for Styx was and is the USA. BotR was not a hit here.

Did they ever try to push BOTR in the US? I can't remember. I think that they should have.

Boomchild wrote:

StyxCollector wrote:

Born4adventure wrote:is boat on the river not the most known styx song in the world?

Arguably yes, but the largest market for Styx was and is the USA. BotR was not a hit here.

Did they ever try to push BOTR in the US? I can't remember. I think that they should have.

No. We got "Babe", "Why Me", and "Borrowed Time". Good song, but I don't know if it would have clicked with the US audience.

I think if Babe was there, that'd be okay. It's Babe and First Time where you go... hey, waitaminute!!!

brywool wrote:I think if Babe was there, that'd be okay. It's Babe and First Time where you go... hey, waitaminute!!!

I agree with this. That, and wishing the piano had been in tune when he recorded Babe. I like it so much better played on piano.

It's funny, because this particular Cornerstone thread (and there have been many) might lead one to believe the album was a crashing failure. It was another in the line of Styx' multi-platinum, hugely successful efforts.


Bugsy

bugsymalone wrote:

brywool wrote:I think if Babe was there, that'd be okay. It's Babe and First Time where you go... hey, waitaminute!!!

I agree with this. That, and wishing the piano had been in tune when he recorded Babe. I like it so much better played on piano.

YES! They did that VH1 unplugged thing and other than the slightly oriental licks that he threw in, (4ths?) I liked that version much more than the released one.

bugsymalone wrote:It's funny, because this particular Cornerstone thread (and there have been many) might lead one to believe the album was a crashing failure. It was another in the line of Styx' multi-platinum, hugely successful efforts.

I actually liked Cornerstone quite a bit. I'm a sucker for an acoustic approach, so songs like Boat, Lights, Love in The Midnight, and Never Say Never were appealing to me. Dennis songs like Why Me and Borrowed Time were also good songs. Babe, I could stand as it was a decently crafted pop song. First Time though, I just thought was such an adolescently-written song. The whole downward bass line approach and the "Don't be afraid of love" were just so basic and it just seemed that no thought went into that song. The keys in the song are almost trying to be like The Beatles' "For No One" but McCartney's subject matter and chord changes were just so much more mature. The "For Paul" dedication makes me think that Dennis thought he was doing something similar to that.

I just couldn't believe that Dennis penned that song and in the years that followed, I couldn't believe he stood by that song so vehemently. It was a weak WEAK effort from him and Shaw and Young were correct to not support it as a single. They were supportive in that they recorded it with Dennis, but as a single- that's kind of held up as who a band is, and I could see them not wanting to be known for that. It was more like some of Dennis' solo stuff that didn't make the cut. Don't get me wrong, he had some really strong solo efforts, but a lot of them were not good.

i have always liked cornerston alot but in reality it's the near the bottom of their multi platinum albums in quality. i have to be in the mood for that album.

songs like lights, boat on the river and borrowed time are some of their best. why me and love in the midnight are good.

eddie is a decent song but sometimes i skip it.....babe and first time are just not my cup of tea.....babe at times is fine but first time is just one that i have struggled with alot.....even before i heard of any issues between the band about it.....75% of the time I skip that song as well.

i do thnk that cornerstone would still have been a hit album without babe....obvisouly not as big but i think you woudl have seen songs like lights or borrowed time be edited and they would have charted and one OK....and I agree with a comment earlier that if they had led with borrowed time it would have done better.

boat on the river should have been released in the US as well.....who knows how well it would have performed.

yeah, I skip Eddie too if I'm around friends. If not, I'll listen to it.

I like Eddie. It's a good hard rock track with a cool early guitar synth solo. I think the guitar solo is nails as well.