MR

Isn't it interesting....

That Styx's only #1 album ever in the history of the band just so happened to be the one where there are only 2 Tommy Shaw songs......

Toph wrote:Isn't it interesting....

That Styx's only #1 album ever in the history of the band just so happened to be the one where there are only 2 Tommy Shaw songs......

Yea and one of those songs was She Cares

no, not really.


It's about as interesting as an album like "Pieces of Eight" being released and ONLY the Tommy Shaw songs being singles.

It's also no more interesting than if you ask Styx fans what the DEFINITIVE Styx album is, they'll say "Grand Illusion" even though Paradise Theatre sold more.

Nor is it more interesting that the album with the number 1 song "Babe" did NOT sell more copies than Grand Illusion, Pieces of 8, or Paradise Theatre over the long run.

Number 1 does not necessarily mean "Better" or "timeless". More often than not, number 1 songs are the crappiest songs on the album.

What is interesting is that the album that broke up the band didn't sell as many as their previous ones, even though Mr. Roboto was a big hit.

It's also interesting that Dennis continues to play that song even though it truly divided his own fans. Not a smart move.


Toph, what is your deal with just trying to stir up sh*t?

Paradise Theatre is a great record. Say whatever you will. It's a great record. It's a much different record than Grand Illusion in that Grand Illusion was more prog. I will confess that I can listen to Paradise Theatre all the way through but I can't really say the same of GI. I routinely skip Superstars. Now that is my preference.. even though GI has some seriously great moments.

Pieces of Eight has more moments than GI, but Lords of the Ring is awful. I personally think PO8 is much stronger than GI. But Paradise Theatre is just strong beginning to end lyrically. I guess I'm a minority, but I really like "She Cares" . Lonely People is an amazingly under-rated song. It's not a "hit song" but it's a great song none-the-less.

Anyway - Paradise Theatre fit right in to the transition from 70's prog to 80's pop. It is much stronger than Cornerstone which (IMO) seemed more of an experimentational album than any other. Styx did a LOT of experimenting on Cornerstone (see: Boat on the River, and even Babe - which was a MAJOR departure from what Styx had done up until that point).

All in context. Every band has their journey.

Edit: No pun intended with the "journey" remark.

Ash wrote:Paradise Theatre is a great record. Say whatever you will. It's a great record. It's a much different record than Grand Illusion in that Grand Illusion was more prog. I will confess that I can listen to Paradise Theatre all the way through but I can't really say the same of GI. I routinely skip Superstars. Now that is my preference.. even though GI has some seriously great moments.

Pieces of Eight has more moments than GI, but Lords of the Ring is awful. I personally think PO8 is much stronger than GI. But Paradise Theatre is just strong beginning to end lyrically. I guess I'm a minority, but I really like "She Cares" . Lonely People is an amazingly under-rated song. It's not a "hit song" but it's a great song none-the-less.

Anyway - Paradise Theatre fit right in to the transition from 70's prog to 80's pop. It is much stronger than Cornerstone which (IMO) seemed more of an experimentational album than any other. Styx did a LOT of experimenting on Cornerstone (see: Boat on the River, and even Babe - which was a MAJOR departure from what Styx had done up until that point).

All in context. Every band has their journey.

Edit: No pun intended with the "journey" remark.

Wow Ash I love Lord of the Rings

froy wrote:
Wow Ash I love Lord of the Rings

Had Dennis done the vocal, it would've been such a better track. JY is just not a lead singer.

froy wrote:Wow Ash I love Lord of the Rings

I can't stand JY's vocal. And it's "Lords of the Ring". It's more musically in tune with Grand Illusion... but still. Just not a big fan of this one.

Ash wrote:

froy wrote:Wow Ash I love Lord of the Rings

I can't stand JY's vocal. And it's "Lords of the Ring". It's more musically in tune with Grand Illusion... but still. Just not a big fan of this one.

This one always felt like something that was off of Man of Miracles. Also reminds me of One Tin Soldier- People believed this big myth. In the end, it was just some little moral. Kinda Dopey Beav. One of the worst A&M tracks to me.

froy wrote:

Ash wrote:Paradise Theatre is a great record. Say whatever you will. It's a great record. It's a much different record than Grand Illusion in that Grand Illusion was more prog. I will confess that I can listen to Paradise Theatre all the way through but I can't really say the same of GI. I routinely skip Superstars. Now that is my preference.. even though GI has some seriously great moments.

Pieces of Eight has more moments than GI, but Lords of the Ring is awful. I personally think PO8 is much stronger than GI. But Paradise Theatre is just strong beginning to end lyrically. I guess I'm a minority, but I really like "She Cares" . Lonely People is an amazingly under-rated song. It's not a "hit song" but it's a great song none-the-less.

Anyway - Paradise Theatre fit right in to the transition from 70's prog to 80's pop. It is much stronger than Cornerstone which (IMO) seemed more of an experimentational album than any other. Styx did a LOT of experimenting on Cornerstone (see: Boat on the River, and even Babe - which was a MAJOR departure from what Styx had done up until that point).

All in context. Every band has their journey.

Edit: No pun intended with the "journey" remark.

Wow Ash I love Lord of the Rings

Yeah, I do too, but what does the Tolkein/Jackson trilogy have to do with Styx?

There is no Styx song called "Lord of the Rings". It's "Lords of the Ring".

brywool wrote:no, not really.



What is interesting is that the album that broke up the band didn't sell as many as their previous ones, even though Mr. Roboto was a big hit.

It's also interesting that Dennis continues to play that song even though it truly divided his own fans. Not a smart move.

Really it's not that interesting or surprising. While it may have divided some of the Styx fan base it also added new ones. Due to the popularity of the song it also made it a part of POP culture. Even though the A&M pushed it as a single DDY never intended to be a single. It was just a song to transition from the KWH short film to the live stage portion of the concert. So, I don't think he is playing it because he feels it's one of his best songs or something to that effect. It's more about the song being a part of POP culture then anything else. Personally, I really do not care for the live performance of this song.

Boomchild wrote:

brywool wrote:no, not really.



What is interesting is that the album that broke up the band didn't sell as many as their previous ones, even though Mr. Roboto was a big hit.

It's also interesting that Dennis continues to play that song even though it truly divided his own fans. Not a smart move.

Really it's not that interesting or surprising. While it may have divided some of the Styx fan base it also added new ones. Due to the popularity of the song it also made it a part of POP culture. Even though the A&M pushed it as a single DDY never intended to be a single. It was just a song to transition from the KWH short film to the live stage portion of the concert. So, I don't think he is playing it because he feels it's one of his best songs or something to that effect. It's more about the song being a part of POP culture then anything else. Personally, I really do not care for the live performance of this song.

Yeah, yer right. Just like "The Pet Rock" it became part of the popular culture. What a great distinction for a brilliant songwriter.... Sorry, but I don't share your enthusiasm for it.

Ash wrote:Paradise Theatre is a great record. Say whatever you will. It's a great record. It's a much different record than Grand Illusion in that Grand Illusion was more prog. I will confess that I can listen to Paradise Theatre all the way through but I can't really say the same of GI. I routinely skip Superstars. Now that is my preference.. even though GI has some seriously great moments.

Pieces of Eight has more moments than GI, but Lords of the Ring is awful. I personally think PO8 is much stronger than GI. But Paradise Theatre is just strong beginning to end lyrically. I guess I'm a minority, but I really like "She Cares" . Lonely People is an amazingly under-rated song. It's not a "hit song" but it's a great song none-the-less.

Anyway - Paradise Theatre fit right in to the transition from 70's prog to 80's pop. It is much stronger than Cornerstone which (IMO) seemed more of an experimentational album than any other. Styx did a LOT of experimenting on Cornerstone (see: Boat on the River, and even Babe - which was a MAJOR departure from what Styx had done up until that point).

All in context. Every band has their journey.

Edit: No pun intended with the "journey" remark.

Agreeing with you here, Ash. Though my personal favorite album is Equinox. POE to me was a far more enjoyable album through and through. I know GI is considered the gold standard for Styx, but, save for two or three songs on it, I am not such a big fan of that album.

Paradise Theater has always been a mixed enjoyment for me. It contains probably Dennis' greatest work musically and lyrically in "Lonely People", but that song has that ridiculous monologue attached to the front of it that probably made a lot of people skip the track altogether. (First thing I did when I recorded that CD to a copy to haul around with me was cut out that part of the song altogether.)

As an overall work, I place Paradise Theater below Equinox, POE and GI, but my leanings have always been towards the progressive side of Styx anyway.


Bugsy

brywool wrote:

Boomchild wrote:

brywool wrote:no, not really.



What is interesting is that the album that broke up the band didn't sell as many as their previous ones, even though Mr. Roboto was a big hit.

It's also interesting that Dennis continues to play that song even though it truly divided his own fans. Not a smart move.

Really it's not that interesting or surprising. While it may have divided some of the Styx fan base it also added new ones. Due to the popularity of the song it also made it a part of POP culture. Even though the A&M pushed it as a single DDY never intended to be a single. It was just a song to transition from the KWH short film to the live stage portion of the concert. So, I don't think he is playing it because he feels it's one of his best songs or something to that effect. It's more about the song being a part of POP culture then anything else. Personally, I really do not care for the live performance of this song.

Yeah, yer right. Just like "The Pet Rock" it became part of the popular culture. What a great distinction for a brilliant songwriter.... Sorry, but I don't share your enthusiasm for it.

What enthusiasm? I think your reading into something that is not there. In fact, I said that I don't really care for the live performance of it. It's not my favorite song of his nor do I think that it's the best thing he has done. I take it for what it is, just a song among the many he has written. All I am pointing out is why he still plays it. Just because something becomes a part of POP culture doesn't mean it's brilliant or the best. The way you presented it was as if no one liked the song at all and it never had any success so why would he still play it.

Boomchild wrote:

brywool wrote:

Boomchild wrote:

brywool wrote:no, not really.



What is interesting is that the album that broke up the band didn't sell as many as their previous ones, even though Mr. Roboto was a big hit.

It's also interesting that Dennis continues to play that song even though it truly divided his own fans. Not a smart move.

Really it's not that interesting or surprising. While it may have divided some of the Styx fan base it also added new ones. Due to the popularity of the song it also made it a part of POP culture. Even though the A&M pushed it as a single DDY never intended to be a single. It was just a song to transition from the KWH short film to the live stage portion of the concert. So, I don't think he is playing it because he feels it's one of his best songs or something to that effect. It's more about the song being a part of POP culture then anything else. Personally, I really do not care for the live performance of this song.

Yeah, yer right. Just like "The Pet Rock" it became part of the popular culture. What a great distinction for a brilliant songwriter.... Sorry, but I don't share your enthusiasm for it.

What enthusiasm? I think your reading into something that is not there. In fact, I said that I don't really care for the live performance of it. It's not my favorite song of his nor do I think that it's the best thing he has done. I take it for what it is, just a song among the many he has written. All I am pointing out is why he still plays it. Just because something becomes a part of POP culture doesn't mean it's brilliant or the best. The way you presented it was as if no one liked the song at all and it never had any success so why would he still play it.

It seems that most people who are not styx fans don't have a problem with the song.. it's just the fans who want to believe that styx was too good to do a song like this that have their noses turned up. It was the '80s, and it's music; lighten up.If it did ruin the band, it's because we let it, and the band let the album divide them, and that puts the blame on everyone from where I stand.

BlackWall wrote:

Boomchild wrote:

brywool wrote:

Boomchild wrote:

brywool wrote:no, not really.



What is interesting is that the album that broke up the band didn't sell as many as their previous ones, even though Mr. Roboto was a big hit.

It's also interesting that Dennis continues to play that song even though it truly divided his own fans. Not a smart move.

Really it's not that interesting or surprising. While it may have divided some of the Styx fan base it also added new ones. Due to the popularity of the song it also made it a part of POP culture. Even though the A&M pushed it as a single DDY never intended to be a single. It was just a song to transition from the KWH short film to the live stage portion of the concert. So, I don't think he is playing it because he feels it's one of his best songs or something to that effect. It's more about the song being a part of POP culture then anything else. Personally, I really do not care for the live performance of this song.

Yeah, yer right. Just like "The Pet Rock" it became part of the popular culture. What a great distinction for a brilliant songwriter.... Sorry, but I don't share your enthusiasm for it.

What enthusiasm? I think your reading into something that is not there. In fact, I said that I don't really care for the live performance of it. It's not my favorite song of his nor do I think that it's the best thing he has done. I take it for what it is, just a song among the many he has written. All I am pointing out is why he still plays it. Just because something becomes a part of POP culture doesn't mean it's brilliant or the best. The way you presented it was as if no one liked the song at all and it never had any success so why would he still play it.

It seems that most people who are not styx fans don't have a problem with the song.. it's just the fans who want to believe that styx was too good to do a song like this that have their noses turned up. It was the '80s, and it's music; lighten up.If it did ruin the band, it's because we let it, and the band let the album divide them, and that puts the blame on everyone from where I stand.

Well, to some people that post here it and KWH in general is the root of all evil. Everything that went wrong in Styx was the fault of DDY alone. The rest of the members were just innocent bystanders victimized by Dennis DeYoung.

Boomchild wrote:

BlackWall wrote:

Boomchild wrote:

brywool wrote:

Boomchild wrote:

brywool wrote:no, not really.



What is interesting is that the album that broke up the band didn't sell as many as their previous ones, even though Mr. Roboto was a big hit.

It's also interesting that Dennis continues to play that song even though it truly divided his own fans. Not a smart move.

Really it's not that interesting or surprising. While it may have divided some of the Styx fan base it also added new ones. Due to the popularity of the song it also made it a part of POP culture. Even though the A&M pushed it as a single DDY never intended to be a single. It was just a song to transition from the KWH short film to the live stage portion of the concert. So, I don't think he is playing it because he feels it's one of his best songs or something to that effect. It's more about the song being a part of POP culture then anything else. Personally, I really do not care for the live performance of this song.

Yeah, yer right. Just like "The Pet Rock" it became part of the popular culture. What a great distinction for a brilliant songwriter.... Sorry, but I don't share your enthusiasm for it.

What enthusiasm? I think your reading into something that is not there. In fact, I said that I don't really care for the live performance of it. It's not my favorite song of his nor do I think that it's the best thing he has done. I take it for what it is, just a song among the many he has written. All I am pointing out is why he still plays it. Just because something becomes a part of POP culture doesn't mean it's brilliant or the best. The way you presented it was as if no one liked the song at all and it never had any success so why would he still play it.

It seems that most people who are not styx fans don't have a problem with the song.. it's just the fans who want to believe that styx was too good to do a song like this that have their noses turned up. It was the '80s, and it's music; lighten up.If it did ruin the band, it's because we let it, and the band let the album divide them, and that puts the blame on everyone from where I stand.

Well, to some people that post here it and KWH in general is the root of all evil. Everything that went wrong in Styx was the fault of DDY alone. The rest of the members were just innocent bystanders victimized by Dennis DeYoung.

Finally you see the light

Here's the problem with Kilroy.... Dennis came up with a concept/theme. Tommy and JY didn't buy into it and wrote crappy songs for it.....The album as a whole didn't carry the theme well.....There are some good songs on it, but the one song that became part of pop culture (which every other band on the planet hopes to get someday, except for Styx) was never intended to be released as a single....If Tommy and JY grew some balls at the time and said Dennis, this is not what we want to do and they agreed to put it off or develop an album they all believed in, we would be at a very different place than we are today.

Having said that, I have reintroduced myself to Styx albums front to back and am finding out what drew me to this band in the first place. Not to mention that 8-10 songs seems a lot more appropriate and makes for a better album/cd than the 14-16 that most artists put out today.

Boomchild wrote:Well, to some people that post here it and KWH in general is the root of all evil. Everything that went wrong in Styx was the fault of DDY alone. The rest of the members were just innocent bystanders victimized by Dennis DeYoung.

That's not what I have been saying. I am saying that by this time DDY was captain of Styx and steering it where he wanted to. As captain, he needs to take responsibility when that ships hits an iceberg.

So many here like to give credit for so much of Styx being Dennis...it only becomes a "band" when it hits the iceberg.

styxfanNH wrote:Here's the problem with Kilroy.... Dennis came up with a concept/theme. Tommy and JY didn't buy into it and wrote crappy songs for it.....The album as a whole didn't carry the theme well.....There are some good songs on it, but the one song that became part of pop culture (which every other band on the planet hopes to get someday, except for Styx) was never intended to be released as a single....If Tommy and JY grew some balls at the time and said Dennis, this is not what we want to do and they agreed to put it off or develop an album they all believed in, we would be at a very different place than we are today.

Having said that, I have reintroduced myself to Styx albums front to back and am finding out what drew me to this band in the first place. Not to mention that 8-10 songs seems a lot more appropriate and makes for a better album/cd than the 14-16 that most artists put out today.

Great post. I agree with everything you said.

styxfanNH wrote:If Tommy and JY grew some balls at the time and said Dennis, this is not what we want to do and they agreed to put it off or develop an album they all believed in, we would be at a very different place than we are today.

I disagree. I still contend Styx would not have made it longer than the 80s and maintained the lineup until today. Too many problems which would have come to a head no matter what at some point.

Reality check is this: JY is not the strongest songwriter in Styx. Some of what he's done is good, but for the most part he's playing the George Harrison vs. Paul and John role in Styx. Tommy was - by his own admission - self medicating. Yes, I love "Haven't We Been Here Before", but he really didn't show up for Kilroy. He withdrew. Now, he did write some of his solo stuff around PT and had KWH *not* been a concept album and songs like "Girls With Guns" on there, it may have been more interesting. Maybe. Since it didn't happen, we'll never know. A fun exercise could be taking the best of Kilroy, Desert Moon, GWG, and City Slicker and making your own 1984ish Styx album.

Everett wrote:

Boomchild wrote:

BlackWall wrote:

Boomchild wrote:

brywool wrote:

Boomchild wrote:

brywool wrote:no, not really.



What is interesting is that the album that broke up the band didn't sell as many as their previous ones, even though Mr. Roboto was a big hit.

It's also interesting that Dennis continues to play that song even though it truly divided his own fans. Not a smart move.

Really it's not that interesting or surprising. While it may have divided some of the Styx fan base it also added new ones. Due to the popularity of the song it also made it a part of POP culture. Even though the A&M pushed it as a single DDY never intended to be a single. It was just a song to transition from the KWH short film to the live stage portion of the concert. So, I don't think he is playing it because he feels it's one of his best songs or something to that effect. It's more about the song being a part of POP culture then anything else. Personally, I really do not care for the live performance of this song.

Yeah, yer right. Just like "The Pet Rock" it became part of the popular culture. What a great distinction for a brilliant songwriter.... Sorry, but I don't share your enthusiasm for it.

What enthusiasm? I think your reading into something that is not there. In fact, I said that I don't really care for the live performance of it. It's not my favorite song of his nor do I think that it's the best thing he has done. I take it for what it is, just a song among the many he has written. All I am pointing out is why he still plays it. Just because something becomes a part of POP culture doesn't mean it's brilliant or the best. The way you presented it was as if no one liked the song at all and it never had any success so why would he still play it.

It seems that most people who are not styx fans don't have a problem with the song.. it's just the fans who want to believe that styx was too good to do a song like this that have their noses turned up. It was the '80s, and it's music; lighten up.If it did ruin the band, it's because we let it, and the band let the album divide them, and that puts the blame on everyone from where I stand.

Well, to some people that post here it and KWH in general is the root of all evil. Everything that went wrong in Styx was the fault of DDY alone. The rest of the members were just innocent bystanders victimized by Dennis DeYoung.

Finally you see the light

Your right. I have seen the light but that was years ago. I understand that it took more then just DDY to cause the problems in Styx. They all seemed to have a hand in it. Some people don't want to see that.

Monker wrote:

Boomchild wrote:Well, to some people that post here it and KWH in general is the root of all evil. Everything that went wrong in Styx was the fault of DDY alone. The rest of the members were just innocent bystanders victimized by Dennis DeYoung.

That's not what I have been saying. I am saying that by this time DDY was captain of Styx and steering it where he wanted to. As captain, he needs to take responsibility when that ships hits an iceberg.

So many here like to give credit for so much of Styx being Dennis...it only becomes a "band" when it hits the iceberg.

DDY has stated that he regrets pushing that project on the band. The reality is the other band members could have not let that project happen. They choose not to. Now they paint a picture as if they had no choice in the matter. Which is just pure bullshit. Just as much as you point out that DDY needed to take responsibility for KHW so do the others by not turning down the project from being done.

StyxCollector wrote:

styxfanNH wrote:If Tommy and JY grew some balls at the time and said Dennis, this is not what we want to do and they agreed to put it off or develop an album they all believed in, we would be at a very different place than we are today.

I disagree. I still contend Styx would not have made it longer than the 80s and maintained the lineup until today. Too many problems which would have come to a head no matter what at some point.

Reality check is this: JY is not the strongest songwriter in Styx. Some of what he's done is good, but for the most part he's playing the George Harrison vs. Paul and John role in Styx. Tommy was - by his own admission - self medicating. Yes, I love "Haven't We Been Here Before", but he really didn't show up for Kilroy. He withdrew. Now, he did write some of his solo stuff around PT and had KWH *not* been a concept album and songs like "Girls With Guns" on there, it may have been more interesting. Maybe. Since it didn't happen, we'll never know. A fun exercise could be taking the best of Kilroy, Desert Moon, GWG, and City Slicker and making your own 1984ish Styx album.

Couldn't agree with you more.

StyxCollector wrote:

styxfanNH wrote:If Tommy and JY grew some balls at the time and said Dennis, this is not what we want to do and they agreed to put it off or develop an album they all believed in, we would be at a very different place than we are today.

I disagree. I still contend Styx would not have made it longer than the 80s and maintained the lineup until today. Too many problems which would have come to a head no matter what at some point.

Reality check is this: JY is not the strongest songwriter in Styx. Some of what he's done is good, but for the most part he's playing the George Harrison vs. Paul and John role in Styx. Tommy was - by his own admission - self medicating. Yes, I love "Haven't We Been Here Before", but he really didn't show up for Kilroy. He withdrew. Now, he did write some of his solo stuff around PT and had KWH *not* been a concept album and songs like "Girls With Guns" on there, it may have been more interesting. Maybe. Since it didn't happen, we'll never know. A fun exercise could be taking the best of Kilroy, Desert Moon, GWG, and City Slicker and making your own 1984ish Styx album.

I wouldn't give JY even that much credit. He comes up with one or two good sings on an album, but that's about it. His contribution is more to the 'sound' of Styx. When it isn't there, the music doesn't have an edge...like on Edge. Too much JY sounds like some of the stuff on BNW, where they lean too much towards hard rock.

KWH was a weak attempt at something similar "The Wall" or Tommy...trying to tell more of a story. It was weak because the rest of the band was not so interested in going down that path. IMO, Tommy songs didn't really fit into that vision. If Dennis truly wanted to do Kilroy correct he should have taken it solo and wrote the whole story and recorded it. Of course, that would have meant Styx would have broke up even earlier then they did but at least Dennis could have given birth to his baby.

Boomchild wrote:DDY has stated that he regrets pushing that project on the band.

Oh, I'm sure. But, and I'm sure the captain of the Titanic regrets hitting the iceberg. But, the fact is they are both responsible for steering the ship...and that means both the fans and Dennis should accept HE is responsible for where it ended up.

The reality is the other band members could have not let that project happen. They choose not to. Now they paint a picture as if they had no choice in the matter. Which is just pure bullshit. Just as much as you point out that DDY needed to take responsibility for KHW so do the others by not turning down the project from being done.

Blah, blah, blah, same old excuses from you. Either DDY was steering the ship, or not. If you are saying DDY was not captain of the Styx ship, well, you need to go live with froy in whatever institution he is in.

Monker wrote:

Boomchild wrote:DDY has stated that he regrets pushing that project on the band.

Oh, I'm sure. But, and I'm sure the captain of the Titanic regrets hitting the iceberg. But, the fact is they are both responsible for steering the ship...and that means both the fans and Dennis should accept HE is responsible for where it ended up.

The reality is the other band members could have not let that project happen. They choose not to. Now they paint a picture as if they had no choice in the matter. Which is just pure bullshit. Just as much as you point out that DDY needed to take responsibility for KHW so do the others by not turning down the project from being done.

Blah, blah, blah, same old excuses from you. Either DDY was steering the ship, or not. If you are saying DDY was not captain of the Styx ship, well, you need to go live with froy in whatever institution he is in.

WHy do you and your Buddy Bry give Tommy Shaw a pass for his unbelievable cocaine addiction? Why do you give him a pass for being so coked out that he broke his hand, ruining the entire Kilroy tour? Why do you give him a pass for wanting a live version of Cold War to be released as the third single and forcing (yes, forcing) the band to disregard a few hundred thousand dollar video, and not release one of the strongest songs on the album as the third single? Why do you give Tommy Shaw a a pas for being the one who actually broke up the band by leaving?

Your logic makes no sense!

Toph wrote:

Monker wrote:

Boomchild wrote:DDY has stated that he regrets pushing that project on the band.

Oh, I'm sure. But, and I'm sure the captain of the Titanic regrets hitting the iceberg. But, the fact is they are both responsible for steering the ship...and that means both the fans and Dennis should accept HE is responsible for where it ended up.

The reality is the other band members could have not let that project happen. They choose not to. Now they paint a picture as if they had no choice in the matter. Which is just pure bullshit. Just as much as you point out that DDY needed to take responsibility for KHW so do the others by not turning down the project from being done.

Blah, blah, blah, same old excuses from you. Either DDY was steering the ship, or not. If you are saying DDY was not captain of the Styx ship, well, you need to go live with froy in whatever institution he is in.

WHy do you and your Buddy Bry give Tommy Shaw a pass for his unbelievable cocaine addiction? Why do you give him a pass for being so coked out that he broke his hand, ruining the entire Kilroy tour? Why do you give him a pass for wanting a live version of Cold War to be released as the third single and forcing (yes, forcing) the band to disregard a few hundred thousand dollar video, and not release one of the strongest songs on the album as the third single? Why do you give Tommy Shaw a a pas for being the one who actually broke up the band by leaving?

Your logic makes no sense!

Tommy wasn't steering the ship. Dennis was. Don't blame the first mate when the captain steers the ship into the iceberg.

Toph wrote:

Monker wrote:

Boomchild wrote:DDY has stated that he regrets pushing that project on the band.

Oh, I'm sure. But, and I'm sure the captain of the Titanic regrets hitting the iceberg. But, the fact is they are both responsible for steering the ship...and that means both the fans and Dennis should accept HE is responsible for where it ended up.

The reality is the other band members could have not let that project happen. They choose not to. Now they paint a picture as if they had no choice in the matter. Which is just pure bullshit. Just as much as you point out that DDY needed to take responsibility for KHW so do the others by not turning down the project from being done.

Blah, blah, blah, same old excuses from you. Either DDY was steering the ship, or not. If you are saying DDY was not captain of the Styx ship, well, you need to go live with froy in whatever institution he is in.

WHy do you and your Buddy Bry give Tommy Shaw a pass for his unbelievable cocaine addiction? Why do you give him a pass for being so coked out that he broke his hand, ruining the entire Kilroy tour? Why do you give him a pass for wanting a live version of Cold War to be released as the third single and forcing (yes, forcing) the band to disregard a few hundred thousand dollar video, and not release one of the strongest songs on the album as the third single? Why do you give Tommy Shaw a a pas for being the one who actually broke up the band by leaving?

Your logic makes no sense!

Toph you are so bloody obnoxious. Seriously... you're Suzanne, aren't you? That explains everything.
I don't give Tommy Shaw a pass for coke addiction. Neither does he. He's apologized many times for it. He's also donated tons of cash and time to help kids with drug addiction. I think that his 'drug karma' is pretty clean by now.

As for Cold War as a single- I've never said that was a good idea. Like the song, but it wasn't a single.

Tommy breaking up the band was what the band actually needed at that time. Your man was making a mockery of Styx.

Cutting short a tour that was costing them WAY more money than they were making is good business actually. Because your hubby wanted to take this huge production into little theatres, the tour LOST big money. That was DeYoung's idea, not Tommy's.

Jeez, the rest of the band probably drew straws for the broken hand thing...

I can see it now... in a dark room with John, Chuck, JY:

JY: We're losing tons of dough doing this huge production in small theatres. Why doesn't Dennis get that?
Chuck: Well, we can't just cancel the tour...
John: I Got an Idea!! What if I broke my hand, or faked it? Then we could pull out gracefully.
JY: ("That's what she said! hahaha") Naw, if you broke it and couldn't play again, we'd be screwed... Hmmm... you know if the new kid broke his hand and it was a bit damaged, he could still sing and I could cover his parts

Tommy walks in

TS: "Hey Guys! What's up"

Just then out of nowhere an incriminating hockey stick comes down on his hand!

SMACK! WHAM!

TS: "OWWW! Hey! Whatja do that for?????!!!"
JY: Thanks Tommy for taking one for the team! You may have just saved us a boatload of money!

brywool wrote:

Toph wrote:

Monker wrote:

Boomchild wrote:DDY has stated that he regrets pushing that project on the band.

Oh, I'm sure. But, and I'm sure the captain of the Titanic regrets hitting the iceberg. But, the fact is they are both responsible for steering the ship...and that means both the fans and Dennis should accept HE is responsible for where it ended up.

The reality is the other band members could have not let that project happen. They choose not to. Now they paint a picture as if they had no choice in the matter. Which is just pure bullshit. Just as much as you point out that DDY needed to take responsibility for KHW so do the others by not turning down the project from being done.

Blah, blah, blah, same old excuses from you. Either DDY was steering the ship, or not. If you are saying DDY was not captain of the Styx ship, well, you need to go live with froy in whatever institution he is in.

WHy do you and your Buddy Bry give Tommy Shaw a pass for his unbelievable cocaine addiction? Why do you give him a pass for being so coked out that he broke his hand, ruining the entire Kilroy tour? Why do you give him a pass for wanting a live version of Cold War to be released as the third single and forcing (yes, forcing) the band to disregard a few hundred thousand dollar video, and not release one of the strongest songs on the album as the third single? Why do you give Tommy Shaw a a pas for being the one who actually broke up the band by leaving?

Your logic makes no sense!

Toph you are so bloody obnoxious. Seriously... you're Suzanne, aren't you? That explains everything.
I don't give Tommy Shaw a pass for coke addiction. Neither does he. He's apologized many times for it. He's also donated tons of cash and time to help kids with drug addiction. I think that his 'drug karma' is pretty clean by now.

As for Cold War as a single- I've never said that was a good idea. Like the song, but it wasn't a single.

Tommy breaking up the band was what the band actually needed at that time. Your man was making a mockery of Styx.

Ruining the tour that was costing them WAY more money than they were making? Because your hubby wanted to take this huge production into little theatres, the tour LOST big money. That was DeYoung's idea, not Tommy's.

Jeez, the rest of the band probably drew straws for the broken hand thing...

I can see it now... in a dark room with John, Chuck, JY:

JY: We're losing tons of dough doing this huge production in small theatres. Why doesn't Dennis get that?
Chuck: Well, we can't just cancel the tour...
John: I Got an Idea!! What if I broke my hand, or faked it? Then we could pull out gracefully.
JY: ("That's what she said! hahaha") Naw, if you broke it and couldn't play again, we'd be screwed... Hmmm... you know if the new kid broke his hand and it was a bit damaged, he could still sing and I could cover his parts

Tommy walks in

TS: "Hey Guys! What's up"

Just then out of nowhere an incriminating hockey stick comes down on his hand!

SMACK! WHAM!

TS: "OWWW! Hey! Whatja do that for?????!!!"
JY: Thanks Tommy for taking one for the team! You may have just saved us a boatload of money!

And Dennis has apologized for Kilroy, but somehow you can't get over it. A bit obsessive compulsive? And Jean, oh I mean Bry, Tommy's rule of thumb when he finds himself in a bad predictament is to quit, or self abuse himself and thus ruin the whole band instead fof trying to make the best of the circumstances. Let's see, how many copies of Kilroy did Tommy actually cost the band? Well, there was the HWBHB single fiasco which resulted in losing a guaranteed, yes, guaranteed top 10 single and losing out on conservatively 500,0000 record sales. In other words, the album could have been relevent throughout the summer instead of dying when DLIE ended its run. Then it could have launched into a 4th single - believe or not, bands had 4,5, even 6 singles on hot albums then. Journey had 4 off Frontiers, Billy Joel had what 6 off Innocent Man? Bruce had 6 or 7 off Born In the USA? Styx had 2 off Klroy. If the album gets a longer life at retail and on the radio, it would have sold at levels similar to the other albums that preceeded it. Instead the tour was interrupted because of the broken hand and the support and airplay vanished because of dumb ass decisions by Tommy Shaw who was so coked out at the time, he didn't know who he was, much less make any credible logical decisions. And by the way, Tommy Shaw is a quitter. period. But again you want to blame this entire fiasco on Dennis when it was clear that others, and especially Tommy Shaw were as much or more at fault over the relative disappointment of Kilroy than anybody.

And to answer Monker, hard for the captain to drive the ship by himself 24-7 and do all the first mate's work because the first mate is incapable of doing anything and actually causing destructive damage to the ship through his actions.

brywool wrote:

Toph wrote:

Monker wrote:

Boomchild wrote:DDY has stated that he regrets pushing that project on the band.

Oh, I'm sure. But, and I'm sure the captain of the Titanic regrets hitting the iceberg. But, the fact is they are both responsible for steering the ship...and that means both the fans and Dennis should accept HE is responsible for where it ended up.

The reality is the other band members could have not let that project happen. They choose not to. Now they paint a picture as if they had no choice in the matter. Which is just pure bullshit. Just as much as you point out that DDY needed to take responsibility for KHW so do the others by not turning down the project from being done.

Blah, blah, blah, same old excuses from you. Either DDY was steering the ship, or not. If you are saying DDY was not captain of the Styx ship, well, you need to go live with froy in whatever institution he is in.

WHy do you and your Buddy Bry give Tommy Shaw a pass for his unbelievable cocaine addiction? Why do you give him a pass for being so coked out that he broke his hand, ruining the entire Kilroy tour? Why do you give him a pass for wanting a live version of Cold War to be released as the third single and forcing (yes, forcing) the band to disregard a few hundred thousand dollar video, and not release one of the strongest songs on the album as the third single? Why do you give Tommy Shaw a a pas for being the one who actually broke up the band by leaving?

Your logic makes no sense!

Toph you are so bloody obnoxious. Seriously... you're Suzanne, aren't you? That explains everything.
I don't give Tommy Shaw a pass for coke addiction. Neither does he. He's apologized many times for it. He's also donated tons of cash and time to help kids with drug addiction. I think that his 'drug karma' is pretty clean by now.

As for Cold War as a single- I've never said that was a good idea. Like the song, but it wasn't a single.

Tommy breaking up the band was what the band actually needed at that time. Your man was making a mockery of Styx.

Cutting short a tour that was costing them WAY more money than they were making is good business actually. Because your hubby wanted to take this huge production into little theatres, the tour LOST big money. That was DeYoung's idea, not Tommy's.

Jeez, the rest of the band probably drew straws for the broken hand thing...

I can see it now... in a dark room with John, Chuck, JY:

JY: We're losing tons of dough doing this huge production in small theatres. Why doesn't Dennis get that?
Chuck: Well, we can't just cancel the tour...
John: I Got an Idea!! What if I broke my hand, or faked it? Then we could pull out gracefully.
JY: ("That's what she said! hahaha") Naw, if you broke it and couldn't play again, we'd be screwed... Hmmm... you know if the new kid broke his hand and it was a bit damaged, he could still sing and I could cover his parts

Tommy walks in

TS: "Hey Guys! What's up"

Just then out of nowhere an incriminating hockey stick comes down on his hand!

SMACK! WHAM!

TS: "OWWW! Hey! Whatja do that for?????!!!"
JY: Thanks Tommy for taking one for the team! You may have just saved us a boatload of money!

Great stuff bry