So much potential lost....

[Toph]

Gave Return to Paradise a listen for the first time in a while and man, they were humming on that album!

The new songs On My Way, Paradise, and Dear John were all really strong and if they had made an album with 10 or 11 songs with that same strength vs. the crap that was on Brave New Flop, man things might have been different...how did it fall apart so badly in a year?

[brywool]

Dennis got too busy with other priorities. He also had several family members pass away during that same time. It took it's toll on him and Dennis being who he is had a very tough time dealing with it. The rest of the band, being who they are (and having dealt with similar situations in the past with Dennis) didn't want to wait for him. To them it was "more of the same".

Brave New World had a LOT of potential. There are some really great SONGS there. It was in their execution that things went wrong. There are also at least 3 horrible tracks on that record that shouldn't have been there and the production just was subpar.

My thoughts. I'm sure now you'll start fighting with me.

[froy]

Dennis got too busy with other priorities.

BS they went right back out in 97 and did a tour. No way is it right to tour the name STYX to DEATH and that's what they did and that's why they are dead.

He also had several family members pass away during that same time. It took it's toll on him

Which it would on any human being

and Dennis being who he is couldn't deal with it.

Excuse me? People deal with death in all different ways. Some take years to recoup.
Bad words there BRY.

The rest of the band, being who they are

A bunch of broke losers who needed money and bad.

(and having dealt with similar situations in the past with Dennis)

And the same with Shaw in the past did they lock him out of the band because of it?
Nope.

didn't want to wait for him.

That's the bullshit story they give but the fact of the matter is they wanted to tour the name STYX to death and that's what they are doing.
Dennis was just sandbagged period.

To them it was "more of the same".

Sure blame the guy who brought you to the dance, Now they are stone cold dead.

My thoughts. I'm sure now you'll start fighting with me.

Put em up dude.

[brywool]

Froy- While you were typing your reply, I changed some of the wording in my post. "Couldn't deal with it" was too harsh.

While the band did go back out in 97, Toph's post seemed to be about BNW, which came later. After the 97 tour was when the Dennis CaCa hit the fan.

One fact of the matter is that the band didn't want to go in Dennis' direction and resented being lead around by him. You are TOTALLY correct in that Dennis had the bigger hits. But the direction those hits went (softer tunes, roboto, etc.) was not where the rest of the band wanted to go, even though it made them money. Ever been in a bar band and been forced to play music you hate just to keep working? Can you imagine the arguing that the band went through when recording those songs? It had to be huge.

Dennis was a major part of the band, this goes without saying. By all accounts, he was also very difficult to work with and the rest of the band had enough and decided to move on without him. IN YOUR EYES and many others, that was a huge mistake. But the band said "look, we can miss these opportunities and then when we finally do go out, play minimal shows, not tour internationally, and be forced to play and record songs that we don't like for the rest of our careers- OR we can take a stand and steer the band where we want to. We might completely fail (you KNOW they had this discussion), but to be told when to jump by Dennis is not something we want to put up with anymore. Life is too short".

SO they moved on. In your eyes, and probably by attendance numbers, they're paying for that.
Are they happy? By all accounts the answer is a resounding YES. Is Dennis happy and able to do EXACTLY what he wants? By all accounts YES. Are both of them selling concert tickets in numbers they used to? NO. Is anybody from that era? NO. Are they able to make a living? YES.

Sometimes your own happiness and sanity is worth more than dough. Both camps are doing what they want. BNW was a missed opportunity, but a necessary one.

As for killing the band- I think Kilroy did that more than anything.

[ChicagoSTYX]

Froy- While you were typing your reply, I changed some of the wording in my post. "Couldn't deal with it" was too harsh.

While the band did go back out in 97, Toph's post seemed to be about BNW, which came later. After the 97 tour was when the Dennis CaCa hit the fan.

One fact of the matter is that the band didn't want to go in Dennis' direction and resented being lead around by him. You are TOTALLY correct in that Dennis had the bigger hits. But the direction those hits went (softer tunes, roboto, etc.) was not where the rest of the band wanted to go, even though it made them money. Ever been in a bar band and been forced to play music you hate just to keep working? Can you imagine the arguing that the band went through when recording those songs? It had to be huge.

Dennis was a major part of the band, this goes without saying. By all accounts, he was also very difficult to work with and the rest of the band had enough and decided to move on without him. IN YOUR EYES and many others, that was a huge mistake. But the band said "look, we can miss these opportunities and then when we finally do go out, play minimal shows, not tour internationally, and be forced to play and record songs that we don't like for the rest of our careers- OR we can take a stand and steer the band where we want to. We might completely fail (you KNOW they had this discussion), but to be told when to jump by Dennis is not something we want to put up with anymore. Life is too short".

SO they moved on. In your eyes, and probably by attendance numbers, they're paying for that.
Are they happy? By all accounts the answer is a resounding YES. Is Dennis happy and able to do EXACTLY what he wants? By all accounts YES. Are both of them selling concert tickets in numbers they used to? NO. Is anybody from that era? NO. Are they able to make a living? YES.

Sometimes your own happiness and sanity is worth more than dough. Both camps are doing what they want. BNW was a missed opportunity, but a necessary one.

As for killing the band- I think Kilroy did that more than anything.

Very well said!

[froy]

"brywool


As for killing the band- I think Kilroy did that more than anything.

Ridiculous

Did I Can't dance ruin Genesis? Did Open Arms kill Journey?
No one song or concept kills a band. If Shaw was not a coke head back then maybe a follow up cd would have smoothed over The Kilroy cd
I saw that tour 5 times it was fantastic would take it again in a heartbeat.

[gr8dane]

"brywool


As for killing the band- I think Kilroy did that more than anything.

Ridiculous

Did I Can't dance ruin Genesis? Did Open Arms kill Journey?
No one song or concept kills a band. If Shaw was not a coke head back then maybe a follow up cd would have smoothed over The Kilroy cd
I saw that tour 5 times it was fantastic would take it again in a heartbeat.

Well,I saw it once and that was more than enough.
I remember sitting in the stands way up waiting for the show to go on.
Where I was sitting you could look behind the stage and 4 or 5 limos roll in .
Everybody comes in separately...,what does that tell you?
It's fuckin' over .

[classicstyxfan]

I wonder how many times the water under the bridge has completely circled the earth and retuned to its starting point ? after 11 years its got to be at least a few times, donchathink ????

[pinkfloyd1973]

I wonder how many times the water under the bridge has completely circled the earth and retuned to its starting point ? after 11 years its got to be at least a few times, donchathink ????

+ a million!

[Boomchild]

Froy- While you were typing your reply, I changed some of the wording in my post. "Couldn't deal with it" was too harsh.

While the band did go back out in 97, Toph's post seemed to be about BNW, which came later. After the 97 tour was when the Dennis CaCa hit the fan.

One fact of the matter is that the band didn't want to go in Dennis' direction and resented being lead around by him. You are TOTALLY correct in that Dennis had the bigger hits. But the direction those hits went (softer tunes, roboto, etc.) was not where the rest of the band wanted to go, even though it made them money. Ever been in a bar band and been forced to play music you hate just to keep working? Can you imagine the arguing that the band went through when recording those songs? It had to be huge.

Dennis was a major part of the band, this goes without saying. By all accounts, he was also very difficult to work with and the rest of the band had enough and decided to move on without him. IN YOUR EYES and many others, that was a huge mistake. But the band said "look, we can miss these opportunities and then when we finally do go out, play minimal shows, not tour internationally, and be forced to play and record songs that we don't like for the rest of our careers- OR we can take a stand and steer the band where we want to. We might completely fail (you KNOW they had this discussion), but to be told when to jump by Dennis is not something we want to put up with anymore. Life is too short".

SO they moved on. In your eyes, and probably by attendance numbers, they're paying for that.
Are they happy? By all accounts the answer is a resounding YES. Is Dennis happy and able to do EXACTLY what he wants? By all accounts YES. Are both of them selling concert tickets in numbers they used to? NO. Is anybody from that era? NO. Are they able to make a living? YES.

Sometimes your own happiness and sanity is worth more than dough. Both camps are doing what they want. BNW was a missed opportunity, but a necessary one.

As for killing the band- I think Kilroy did that more than anything.

The reality is that it just wasn't DDY the caused the break up. It was also JY and TS. When you have three people like them in one band it won't work forever. They all had strong egos that wanted to be in the drivers seat for the direction of the band. The stuff about DDY did this and DDY did that is just so they can justify their reasons for taking over control of the band. Lets get real here, other then touring more then they might have with DDY in the band they haven't done much of anything else. They said with DDY in the band they felt they couldn't write and play the music they wanted. If you take a look at what they have done it's not that much different from what they did when DDY was in the band. It's all about the egos folks. I'm not saying that I support any of them regarding the matter. However, the fact that they did it at a time when DDY was dealing with the issues he had to me was low.

[jestor92]

"brywool


As for killing the band- I think Kilroy did that more than anything.

Ridiculous

Did I Can't dance ruin Genesis? Did Open Arms kill Journey?
No one song or concept kills a band. If Shaw was not a coke head back then maybe a follow up cd would have smoothed over The Kilroy cd
I saw that tour 5 times it was fantastic would take it again in a heartbeat.

Don't tell that to Billy Squier. The video for "Rock Me Tonight" killed his career.

[brywool]

"brywool


As for killing the band- I think Kilroy did that more than anything.

Ridiculous

Did I Can't dance ruin Genesis? Did Open Arms kill Journey?
No one song or concept kills a band. If Shaw was not a coke head back then maybe a follow up cd would have smoothed over The Kilroy cd
I saw that tour 5 times it was fantastic would take it again in a heartbeat.

I had a nice long reply typed up to this, hit submit and then MR went down. Not gonna type it again.
What I meant by Kilroy killed the band, I meant internally. Not to their fans, but the 5 guys in Styx.

[froy]

"brywool


As for killing the band- I think Kilroy did that more than anything.

Ridiculous

Did I Can't dance ruin Genesis? Did Open Arms kill Journey?
No one song or concept kills a band. If Shaw was not a coke head back then maybe a follow up cd would have smoothed over The Kilroy cd
I saw that tour 5 times it was fantastic would take it again in a heartbeat.

I had a nice long reply typed up to this, hit submit and then MR went down. Not gonna type it again.
What I meant by Kilroy killed the band, I meant internally. Not to their fans, but the 5 guys in Styx.

I thought First Time killed them internally. It seems as if Dennis was a target. Last I checked he was the only one bringing concepts to the band.
Just look at them now 0 ideas other than regurgitating the same songs they already have released. Dennis was better off doing nothing in this case.
He comes up with an idea that didn't work gee that's 4 that worked great and 1 that failed. Guess what you win some you lose some.
As I mentioned if Shaw was not snorting his head off they could have released the next cd that would have put Kilroy in the past.
Instead he quits and leaves Kilroy as the last thing they did together.

[brywool]

"brywool


As for killing the band- I think Kilroy did that more than anything.

Ridiculous

Did I Can't dance ruin Genesis? Did Open Arms kill Journey?
No one song or concept kills a band. If Shaw was not a coke head back then maybe a follow up cd would have smoothed over The Kilroy cd
I saw that tour 5 times it was fantastic would take it again in a heartbeat.

Don't tell that to Billy Squier. The video for "Rock Me Tonight" killed his career.

Sure did!

[pinkfloyd1973]

"brywool


As for killing the band- I think Kilroy did that more than anything.

Ridiculous

Did I Can't dance ruin Genesis? Did Open Arms kill Journey?
No one song or concept kills a band. If Shaw was not a coke head back then maybe a follow up cd would have smoothed over The Kilroy cd
I saw that tour 5 times it was fantastic would take it again in a heartbeat.

Don't tell that to Billy Squier. The video for "Rock Me Tonight" killed his career.

[froy]

jestor92"



Don't tell that to Billy Squier. The video for "Rock Me Tonight" killed his career.

Yep that video did but it was the video not the song

[brywool]

jestor92"



Don't tell that to Billy Squier. The video for "Rock Me Tonight" killed his career.

Yep that video did but it was the video not the song

It was the IMAGE that video put out there of him. Same with Styx. They lost a lot of fans over that project. But the problems were more internal than fan related.

[froy]

"bry


They lost a lot of fans over that project. But the problems were more internal than fan related.

How do you know they lost a lot of fans over Kilroy?

As far as internal problems your right Shaw was the internal problem with the drugs and missing band meetings,
Not Dennis all he did was try to put out another concept cd,

[Monker]

Did Open Arms kill Journey?

No, ROR did...for the same candy-coated pop reasons that Kilroy did.

[froy]

Did Open Arms kill Journey?

No, ROR did...for the same candy-coated pop reasons that Kilroy did.

ROR was great not having Smitty and Ross were the killers

[Boomchild]

"brywool


As for killing the band- I think Kilroy did that more than anything.

Ridiculous

Did I Can't dance ruin Genesis? Did Open Arms kill Journey?
No one song or concept kills a band. If Shaw was not a coke head back then maybe a follow up cd would have smoothed over The Kilroy cd
I saw that tour 5 times it was fantastic would take it again in a heartbeat.

I had a nice long reply typed up to this, hit submit and then MR went down. Not gonna type it again.
What I meant by Kilroy killed the band, I meant internally. Not to their fans, but the 5 guys in Styx.

I thought First Time killed them internally. It seems as if Dennis was a target. Last I checked he was the only one bringing concepts to the band.
Just look at them now 0 ideas other than regurgitating the same songs they already have released. Dennis was better off doing nothing in this case.
He comes up with an idea that didn't work gee that's 4 that worked great and 1 that failed. Guess what you win some you lose some.
As I mentioned if Shaw was not snorting his head off they could have released the next cd that would have put Kilroy in the past.
Instead he quits and leaves Kilroy as the last thing they did together.

He also was listening to people whispering in his ear "Hey Tommy, you can make it on your own, your the real reason people like Styx". We all know how that worked out for him. Just listen to "what If" Thats some ground breaking stuff there!

[Boomchild]

jestor92"



Don't tell that to Billy Squier. The video for "Rock Me Tonight" killed his career.

Yep that video did but it was the video not the song

It was the IMAGE that video put out there of him. Same with Styx. They lost a lot of fans over that project. But the problems were more internal than fan related.

That's if you take Tommy's and JY"s viewpoint on it as gospel. I would have to say it was more like they lost some fans and gained some new fans. But of course they are not going to present it that way because that makes their argument moot.