MR

I'm probably in the minority, but I really like the album. I realize that there is no unity and guest players are used, but most of the songs are really good. With the exception of Fallen Angel, Dennis' songs are all great. 'Great Expectations' should have been the first single released instead of 'Everything is Cool'. Not a bad song, but not a single. 'Great Expectations' has a great, slight reggae feel to it and awesome blues guitar throughout. My main gripe with the album other than the obvious is that it's a little heavy on Tommy Shaw input. I have no issue with TS, but he sings solo on 7 songs and shares on 2 others. Dennis only has 5. Too one-sided to be cohesive. 'Just Fell In' could be dropped no problem, not a song I like. Perhaps even 'What Have They Done to You' could be dropped as well. My favorites are 'Number One' and 'High Crimes & Misdemeanors'. The latter of the two may be different, but it's gutsy and down right good! 'Heavy Water' is a nice one as well as 'Best New Face', but it doesn't sound like Styx. I think I know why... co-writer Blades. Anyways, this album seems to be harshly criticized, but I think a bit unfairly.

This didn't seem like a Styx album to me. It was half DDY and half TS solo projects.

It was ok...but disappointing.

hoagiepete wrote:This didn't seem like a Styx album to me. It was half DDY and half TS solo projects.

It was ok...but disappointing.

You're right about that, but the songs separately... most of 'em, work for me.

Minus a few tunes this is a killer album. Can you imagine if they were united on this album, it would've been alot better then it was.

Baron Von Bielski wrote:I'm probably in the minority, but I really like the album. I realize that there is no unity and guest players are used, but most of the songs are really good. With the exception of Fallen Angel, Dennis' songs are all great. 'Great Expectations' should have been the first single released instead of 'Everything is Cool'. Not a bad song, but not a single. 'Great Expectations' has a great, slight reggae feel to it and awesome blues guitar throughout. My main gripe with the album other than the obvious is that it's a little heavy on Tommy Shaw input. I have no issue with TS, but he sings solo on 7 songs and shares on 2 others. Dennis only has 5. Too one-sided to be cohesive. 'Just Fell In' could be dropped no problem, not a song I like. Perhaps even 'What Have They Done to You' could be dropped as well. My favorites are 'Number One' and 'High Crimes & Misdemeanors'. The latter of the two may be different, but it's gutsy and down right good! 'Heavy Water' is a nice one as well as 'Best New Face', but it doesn't sound like Styx. I think I know why... co-writer Blades. Anyways, this album seems to be harshly criticized, but I think a bit unfairly.

There are some decent songs on that album but it's too fragmented for me. The fans (myself included) had high expectations for this project and I think mostly were let down big time. I feel DDY was right that it needed more work before release or should have been scrapped. Maybe they should have scrapped it and done something when Gowan was in place. The most ironic thing for me is the point that Tommy suggested making BNW a concept album. Not sure if that is true but if it is I thought to myself why in the hell would he suggest that since concept albums was one of the reasons he left the band.

Yeah, there's pretty much nothing good about this album. I think everyone involved has admitted what a colossal failure it was in absolutely every way. I'm the first to admit that DDY's songs on this album sound like outtakes from his worst solo moments. Tommy's stuff is typical of anything that he's done past 1981 - that is to say, it sucks in every way. At least JY was consistent - he's just as horrible as he's always been.

Brave New World is the sound of a band imploding a second time.

When only one, or maybe two, songs on an entire album are pretty good, you have a problem.


Bugsy

This topic again?

StyxCollector wrote:This topic again?

I've never brought it up, so I thought I'd share my opinion. It's not like this particular forum has a lot going on anyway, except I guess fake letters from TS. I happen to like a lot of the songs on BNW so I wanted to see what others thought.

Baron Von Bielski wrote:

StyxCollector wrote:This topic again?

I've never brought it up, so I thought I'd share my opinion. It's not like this particular forum has a lot going on anyway, except I guess fake letters from TS. I happen to like a lot of the songs on BNW so I wanted to see what others thought.

You couldn't have picked some existing thread on BNW? Just sayin'

Baron Von Bielski wrote:
I've never brought it up.

Actually you did... just under a different name.

Higgy wrote:

Baron Von Bielski wrote:
I've never brought it up.

Actually you did... just under a different name.

How do you mean?

StyxCollector wrote:

Baron Von Bielski wrote:

StyxCollector wrote:This topic again?

I've never brought it up, so I thought I'd share my opinion. It's not like this particular forum has a lot going on anyway, except I guess fake letters from TS. I happen to like a lot of the songs on BNW so I wanted to see what others thought.

You couldn't have picked some existing thread on BNW? Just sayin'

I glanced through 3 pages to see if there was one already. I only found ones on the Best New Face remix. I suppose I could have used those, but it didn't seem like a big deam if I brought up the album as a whole since it hadn't been talked about from what I could find. I get the whole bringin' something up that's been talked about before... this is not the only forum I post in, but I have only been on here for like a week and didn't know that it had been brought up recently.

Baron Von Bielski wrote:

StyxCollector wrote:

Baron Von Bielski wrote:

StyxCollector wrote:This topic again?

I've never brought it up, so I thought I'd share my opinion. It's not like this particular forum has a lot going on anyway, except I guess fake letters from TS. I happen to like a lot of the songs on BNW so I wanted to see what others thought.

You couldn't have picked some existing thread on BNW? Just sayin'

I glanced through 3 pages to see if there was one already. I only found ones on the Best New Face remix. I suppose I could have used those, but it didn't seem like a big deam if I brought up the album as a whole since it hadn't been talked about from what I could find. I get the whole bringin' something up that's been talked about before... this is not the only forum I post in, but I have only been on here for like a week and didn't know that it had been brought up recently.

IMHO is doesn't really matter. Most of what is discussed on this board is rehash of the same old subjects anyway. The thread may not start out that way but someone seems to steer it in the direction of a topic covered in another post(s) anyway. I guess to the board police it does.

Boomchild wrote:

Baron Von Bielski wrote:

StyxCollector wrote:

Baron Von Bielski wrote:

StyxCollector wrote:This topic again?

I've never brought it up, so I thought I'd share my opinion. It's not like this particular forum has a lot going on anyway, except I guess fake letters from TS. I happen to like a lot of the songs on BNW so I wanted to see what others thought.

You couldn't have picked some existing thread on BNW? Just sayin'

I glanced through 3 pages to see if there was one already. I only found ones on the Best New Face remix. I suppose I could have used those, but it didn't seem like a big deam if I brought up the album as a whole since it hadn't been talked about from what I could find. I get the whole bringin' something up that's been talked about before... this is not the only forum I post in, but I have only been on here for like a week and didn't know that it had been brought up recently.

IMHO is doesn't really matter. Most of what is discussed on this board is rehash of the same old subjects anyway. The thread may not start out that way but someone seems to steer it in the direction of a topic covered in another post(s) anyway. I guess to the board police it does.

Yeah, that seems to be the case in all forums. It kinda funny how one topic can totally turn into something else in just a few posts.

this forum survives on rehashed posts. if it weren't for these, nobody would be saying anything.

I Will Be Your Witness
Number One
Goodbye To Roseland

shitcan the rest.

You guys are brutal!

I will be your witness, brave new world, number one, heavy water, everything is cool, great expectations goodbye roseland and while there's still time are all very good songs. If the band had worked on them together this really could have been a great album.
Dennis was right. This was an album of missed opportunities.

cittadeeno23 wrote:You guys are brutal!

I will be your witness, brave new world, number one, heavy water, everything is cool, great expectations goodbye roseland and while there's still time are all very good songs. If the band had worked on them together this really could have been a great album.
Dennis was right. This was an album of missed opportunities.

It was a poor way to end that era of Styx. If I was the record label exec. I would have rejected it. After all they produced better srtuff in the past even when they were not on the best of terms with each other. Too bad with time and age they didn't grow up.

cittadeeno23 wrote:You guys are brutal!

I will be your witness, brave new world, number one, heavy water, everything is cool, great expectations goodbye roseland and while there's still time are all very good songs. If the band had worked on them together this really could have been a great album.
Dennis was right. This was an album of missed opportunities.

I agree with every word you said with the exception of Everything is Cool. That's one I've never really liked too much.

Baron Von Bielski wrote:
I agree with every word you said with the exception of Everything is Cool. That's one I've never really liked too much.

Incredible insight!

Boomchild wrote:

cittadeeno23 wrote:You guys are brutal!

I will be your witness, brave new world, number one, heavy water, everything is cool, great expectations goodbye roseland and while there's still time are all very good songs. If the band had worked on them together this really could have been a great album.
Dennis was right. This was an album of missed opportunities.

It was a poor way to end that era of Styx. If I was the record label exec. I would have rejected it. After all they produced better srtuff in the past even when they were not on the best of terms with each other. Too bad with time and age they didn't grow up.

Well, the label had already spent the money, they figured they might as well put it out there, send whomever was available on tour and see what they got. It didn't do anywhere near as well as RTP, but it did okay in that market in that moment in time. They certainly made money from it, and that's what record companies do. They sell records for profit.

For me personally, I'd have canned "Just Fell In," (why did that song ever get written?) "High Crimes and Misdemeanors,"(why did that song ever get recorded for a Styx album?) "Best New Face," ("Yeah, oh yeah, you're the best new face in the human race????!!!! REALLY!???!!) and probably "Number One," as well as ditched "Brave New World (Reprise)." I would have also ditched the concept album angle since the album does not deliver on the concept in any way, shape or form. I would have changed the running order somewhat as well, to try for a better flow from one song to another. And I would have used entirely different art work and hired a professional writer to write the liner notes. All of those changes might have resulted in a stronger overall effort.

That said, in retrospect there really are quite a few things to like about this album. There are some great songs and great vocal performances, and some songs even have strong instrumental performances, even if you don't know who the hell's playing what, LOL. It's not the unmitigated disaster I thought it was when I first heard it. It's better than anything from the Wooden Nickel era except 'Styx II.' But it's still an album I listen to very, very little, in the grand scheme of things.


Sterling

Agree with everything Sterling has written except the song Number One. I like the song and the song really reflected the times when Prozac and soooo many drugs like it were being perscribed for every little ailment. The doctors were going crazy at the time pushing those drugs for the pharmaceutical companies.

I really thougth it was a great song that truly reflected those times and what was about to occur in the 'legal' drug market.

One of Tommy's most insightful songs.

yogi wrote:Agree with everything Sterling has written except the song Number One. I like the song and the song really reflected the times when Prozac and soooo many drugs like it were being perscribed for every little ailment. The doctors were going crazy at the time pushing those drugs for the pharmaceutical companies.

I really thougth it was a great song that truly reflected those times and what was about to occur in the 'legal' drug market.

One of Tommy's most insightful songs.

I like parts of it and other parts I literally have to fast forward through when I hear it (rarely). The part I can't stand is the out of tune "Whose that knocking at the door? Whose not wasted anymore?..." Awful. And then when they do it again with the guitar solo "whose that knocking..." guitar solo..."whose not taking" Guitar solo....horrid....

Toph wrote:

yogi wrote:Agree with everything Sterling has written except the song Number One. I like the song and the song really reflected the times when Prozac and soooo many drugs like it were being perscribed for every little ailment. The doctors were going crazy at the time pushing those drugs for the pharmaceutical companies.

I really thougth it was a great song that truly reflected those times and what was about to occur in the 'legal' drug market.

One of Tommy's most insightful songs.

I like parts of it and other parts I literally have to fast forward through when I hear it (rarely). The part I can't stand is the out of tune "Whose that knocking at the door? Whose not wasted anymore?..." Awful. And then when they do it again with the guitar solo "whose that knocking..." guitar solo..."whose not taking" Guitar solo....horrid....

I have never understood the hatred for that song.. Anyone I've ever played it for thought it sucked, and even the D.J. ragged on it after they played it back in '99. I don't know, I guess I just have bizarre musical taste.. I think they sounded like Styx with a modern edge(for the time, obviously), and I agree with Yogi about the perceptive lyrics.

"BNW" had some great songs: "Witness", "BNW"(better live), "Number One", "Heavy Water", and honestly, the lyrics to "Fallen Angel" rank up there with some of DDY's best. I could take or leave the melody, but when you think about it, DDY has never had just one particular musical style in mind when it comes to Styx, and "Fallen Angel" isn't all that far off from the contrast that something like "Lonely People" or "Nothing Ever Goes As Planned" had against the other material on "PT". Yes, it would have been better had they worked together on these songs, but "BNW" deserved better than it got.

BlackWall wrote:

Toph wrote:

yogi wrote:Agree with everything Sterling has written except the song Number One. I like the song and the song really reflected the times when Prozac and soooo many drugs like it were being perscribed for every little ailment. The doctors were going crazy at the time pushing those drugs for the pharmaceutical companies.

I really thougth it was a great song that truly reflected those times and what was about to occur in the 'legal' drug market.

One of Tommy's most insightful songs.

I like parts of it and other parts I literally have to fast forward through when I hear it (rarely). The part I can't stand is the out of tune "Whose that knocking at the door? Whose not wasted anymore?..." Awful. And then when they do it again with the guitar solo "whose that knocking..." guitar solo..."whose not taking" Guitar solo....horrid....

I have never understood the hatred for that song.. Anyone I've ever played it for thought it sucked, and even the D.J. ragged on it after they played it back in '99. I don't know, I guess I just have bizarre musical taste.. I think they sounded like Styx with a modern edge(for the time, obviously), and I agree with Yogi about the perceptive lyrics.

"BNW" had some great songs: "Witness", "BNW"(better live), "Number One", "Heavy Water", and honestly, the lyrics to "Fallen Angel" rank up there with some of DDY's best. I could take or leave the melody, but when you think about it, DDY has never had just one particular musical style in mind when it comes to Styx, and "Fallen Angel" isn't all that far off from the contrast that something like "Lonely People" or "Nothing Ever Goes As Planned" had against the other material on "PT". Yes, it would have been better had they worked together on these songs, but "BNW" deserved better than it got.

I like Number One quite a bit myself. Like I said before I would scrap Just Fell In and Fallen Angel for sure. Oh, and BNW (Reprise) as well. I am probably the only person who actually like High Crimes & Misdemeanors, so it stays, but since the album seems so one-sided with TS songs they could have dropped Best New Face (bad chorus) and Everything is Cool or maybe What Have They Done to You. Try and make it least perceivable a cohesive record.

BlackWall wrote:

Toph wrote:

yogi wrote:Agree with everything Sterling has written except the song Number One. I like the song and the song really reflected the times when Prozac and soooo many drugs like it were being perscribed for every little ailment. The doctors were going crazy at the time pushing those drugs for the pharmaceutical companies.

I really thougth it was a great song that truly reflected those times and what was about to occur in the 'legal' drug market.

One of Tommy's most insightful songs.

I like parts of it and other parts I literally have to fast forward through when I hear it (rarely). The part I can't stand is the out of tune "Whose that knocking at the door? Whose not wasted anymore?..." Awful. And then when they do it again with the guitar solo "whose that knocking..." guitar solo..."whose not taking" Guitar solo....horrid....

I have never understood the hatred for that song.. Anyone I've ever played it for thought it sucked, and even the D.J. ragged on it after they played it back in '99. I don't know, I guess I just have bizarre musical taste.. I think they sounded like Styx with a modern edge(for the time, obviously), and I agree with Yogi about the perceptive lyrics.

"BNW" had some great songs: "Witness", "BNW"(better live), "Number One", "Heavy Water", and honestly, the lyrics to "Fallen Angel" rank up there with some of DDY's best. I could take or leave the melody, but when you think about it, DDY has never had just one particular musical style in mind when it comes to Styx, and "Fallen Angel" isn't all that far off from the contrast that something like "Lonely People" or "Nothing Ever Goes As Planned" had against the other material on "PT". Yes, it would have been better had they worked together on these songs, but "BNW" deserved better than it got.

Personally, I don't feel it deserved better. It's on par with the quality of the product. I would rank it a notch or two above the majority of their stuff from the WN days. It's not something I think the industry or the band itself would rank as one of their better projects. Which is truly a shame. They could have given all the fans who waited so long for the band work together again an excellent album. I still listen to it from time to time but it usually leaves me disappointed due to all that surrounded it.

Number One is different, but I think it's a great song. Very well written and has a great mood. As one who deals with depression and those sorts of issues daily and is in that "crazy war inside you", I can relate to this song. It would have made a better cut for Seven Deadly Zens, but it's still a really good song. It's no less a Styx song than something like Shooz

I agree with most of everything else Sterling wrote. There are some pretty weak efforts on that album on all sides. I did, however, forget about While There's Still Time. This one was also really well done.

What this album really missed was some Glen Burtnik.

Brave New World had a lot of potential. If it had been a true group project, the good songs would have been great songs.

Like Ash said, this place survives on rehashed posts. In that spirit, I'll rehash my comments... All the older Styx albums had 8-9 songs on them. Some of the worst Styx music ever put on tape landed on BNW. If you chop BNW down to 8 or 9 songs and then wave the magic wand of TS/DDY/JY working on them in the same room, BNW could have been a great album. Here's my BNW...

Brave New World
While There's Still Time
Number One
Best New Face
Fallen Angel
Everything is Cool
Heavy Water
Goodbye Roseland
BNW Reprise

Ash wrote:What this album really missed was some Glen Burtnik.

He's actually on it, but just barely. Little bit of BG vocals and bass on a couple of tunes.

-Paul