MR

The fact that this video never saw the light of day and the single was never released goes down as one of Styx's top 5 boneheaded moves. The fact that they went through all that expense and made such a intriguing video would have eased them through a very painful time a bit better. As one member said, "There's no deodorant like success." This would have undoubtedly been the third top 10 off the album and given it much more life. But one member's haphazard decision making caused this never to be released to major video stations or as a single. Yet another missed opportunity. So, this gets ranked way up there because it was such a unique video and such a departure from Styx. Had a tough time finding this one.....

http://video.mail.ru/bk/vav1959/10921/10962.html

Always loved the song, but thought the video was nuts. Had nothing to do with the story of the song. Actually, I never understood how the song fit into the whole Kilroy thing, anyway, as it seemed more like a love song than anything else.

I think it would have been a hit as well on the charts... definitely top 20. It's odd that TS pushed so hard for a song to get released then that he doesn't even play today. You'd think that since he thought so much of it then that it'd be in the Styx set nowadays.

I never really got this video either and I think it took me about 3 viewings to finally figure out who Dennis was in the gambling/hamburger joint. I kind of like it, but it has nothing to do with Kilroy or the song. It falls in with several of those wacko videos made around this time for other performers.


Bugsy

Cassie May wrote:Always loved the song, but thought the video was nuts. Had nothing to do with the story of the song. Actually, I never understood how the song fit into the whole Kilroy thing, anyway, as it seemed more like a love song than anything else.

Sounds more like a conversation with Dennis and Tommy to me.

"Bye. I gotta go. This has happened over and over again. I can't stay anymore. I've finally learned to stand up for myself, I won't be ignored."

That's what I've always gotten out of it even while Tommy was still in the band.

Good song, but the video isn't that great. The parts without Tommy are intriguing in that they seem to have some kind of story that wasn't fleshed out to make room for Tommy's parts. But the parts with Tommy are terribly conceived and have ZERO to do with any of it. They were just shoved in there with way lower production values and bring nothing to it at all. Looks like he just did it to satisfy the band.

Gimme the "Come Sail Away/Fooling Yourself/Miss America" set of videos from The Grand Illusion over all of em. Those are what the band was about and you can see they were a lot happier there.

Fav song on kilroy. Always laugh when tommy looks scared to death on the clock.

Baron Von Bielski wrote:I think it would have been a hit as well on the charts... definitely top 20. It's odd that TS pushed so hard for a song to get released then that he doesn't even play today. You'd think that since he thought so much of it then that it'd be in the Styx set nowadays.

Tommy DIDN'T push for this song to be released. He decided after hundreds of thousands had been spent on the video (and probably after a few shots and lines) that the band should NOT release HWBHB as a single and instead release some live version of "Cold War". The record company balked at that and so they ended up releasing "High Time" which DDY said, "was probably the worst song of the entire album." Just through the momentum that the album had, HT went to #48, but there was little promotion from the record company, no video, and it was a substandard song. Imagine if HWBHB HAD been released with a video promoting it. A much more radio friendly song - would have scored well at both Pop and AC and given Kilroy 3 more months of action and maybe the impetus for a 4th single (JGTTN edited or Double Life?). Alas, yet another boneheaded moved cost them there.

You know, for all the flack DDY gets about being "controlling". It sure seems to me that TS had the band by the balls when it came for decisions about what singles to release. First Time - Tommy threatens to quit and they release substandard Why Me instead. No Boat on the River released in the US. The HWBHB debacle. Why they let Tommy get his way on these and inherently take the wind out of the sales of both Cornerstone and Kilroy, I have no idea.

How much trouble did you go through to find the video? It's commercially available, on the Caught in the Act DVD release...

Toph wrote:

Baron Von Bielski wrote:I think it would have been a hit as well on the charts... definitely top 20. It's odd that TS pushed so hard for a song to get released then that he doesn't even play today. You'd think that since he thought so much of it then that it'd be in the Styx set nowadays.

Tommy DIDN'T push for this song to be released. He decided after hundreds of thousands had been spent on the video (and probably after a few shots and lines) that the band should NOT release HWBHB as a single and instead release some live version of "Cold War". The record company balked at that and so they ended up releasing "High Time" which DDY said, "was probably the worst song of the entire album." Just through the momentum that the album had, HT went to #48, but there was little promotion from the record company, no video, and it was a substandard song. Imagine if HWBHB HAD been released with a video promoting it. A much more radio friendly song - would have scored well at both Pop and AC and given Kilroy 3 more months of action and maybe the impetus for a 4th single (JGTTN edited or Double Life?). Alas, yet another boneheaded moved cost them there.

What is boneheaded is people thinking they can write an alternate history and improve things, and not be doing anything but writing fiction.

Kilroy had run its course...Cornerstone had run its course....EOTC had more then run its course. Just because those albums were not as successful as some would have liked does not mean a fictional rewriting of history would change anything with any certainty.

You know, for all the flack DDY gets about being "controlling". It sure seems to me that TS had the band by the balls when it came for decisions about what singles to release. First Time - Tommy threatens to quit and they release substandard Why Me instead. No Boat on the River released in the US. The HWBHB debacle. Why they let Tommy get his way on these and inherently take the wind out of the sales of both Cornerstone and Kilroy, I have no idea.

Both "Cold War", "Haven't We Been Here Before" and even "Kiss Me Hello" were all about Tommy being unhappy, controlled, wanting to leave, and actually leaving, Styx. Ironic how you pick such a song to pick on and then make the above statement.

"First time" is mediocre.
"Why Me" is mediocre.
"Boat ont he River" is laughable as a US single.

Maybe if Dennis treated Styx like a band Kilroy itself would not have been a debacle that tore the band apart. The third single was irrelevent...."Mr Roboto" had sealed the album as a shark jumping excercise.

And, the band doesn't release singles, the label does....unless they owned A&M , "Styx" did not release the singles.

Monker wrote:

Toph wrote:

Baron Von Bielski wrote:I think it would have been a hit as well on the charts... definitely top 20. It's odd that TS pushed so hard for a song to get released then that he doesn't even play today. You'd think that since he thought so much of it then that it'd be in the Styx set nowadays.

Tommy DIDN'T push for this song to be released. He decided after hundreds of thousands had been spent on the video (and probably after a few shots and lines) that the band should NOT release HWBHB as a single and instead release some live version of "Cold War". The record company balked at that and so they ended up releasing "High Time" which DDY said, "was probably the worst song of the entire album." Just through the momentum that the album had, HT went to #48, but there was little promotion from the record company, no video, and it was a substandard song. Imagine if HWBHB HAD been released with a video promoting it. A much more radio friendly song - would have scored well at both Pop and AC and given Kilroy 3 more months of action and maybe the impetus for a 4th single (JGTTN edited or Double Life?). Alas, yet another boneheaded moved cost them there.

What is boneheaded is people thinking they can write an alternate history and improve things, and not be doing anything but writing fiction.

Kilroy had run its course...Cornerstone had run its course....EOTC had more then run its course. Just because those albums were not as successful as some would have liked does not mean a fictional rewriting of history would change anything with any certainty.

You know, for all the flack DDY gets about being "controlling". It sure seems to me that TS had the band by the balls when it came for decisions about what singles to release. First Time - Tommy threatens to quit and they release substandard Why Me instead. No Boat on the River released in the US. The HWBHB debacle. Why they let Tommy get his way on these and inherently take the wind out of the sales of both Cornerstone and Kilroy, I have no idea.

Both "Cold War", "Haven't We Been Here Before" and even "Kiss Me Hello" were all about Tommy being unhappy, controlled, wanting to leave, and actually leaving, Styx. Ironic how you pick such a song to pick on and then make the above statement.

"First time" is mediocre.
"Why Me" is mediocre.
"Boat ont he River" is laughable as a US single.

Maybe if Dennis treated Styx like a band Kilroy itself would not have been a debacle that tore the band apart. The third single was irrelevent...."Mr Roboto" had sealed the album as a shark jumping excercise.

And, the band doesn't release singles, the label does....unless they owned A&M , "Styx" did not release the singles.

You are so full of shit Monker. You need to actually read history. Everything I've said is backed up by numerous interviews. Styx was the top band on the A&M roster, don't tell me that they didn't have input. So, get your head out of your ass and stop pushing you agenda...

ManOfMiracles wrote:How much trouble did you go through to find the video? It's commercially available, on the Caught in the Act DVD release...

Its not on YouTube. Go ahead and put your copy out there. Cause it ain't there.

Toph wrote:

ManOfMiracles wrote:How much trouble did you go through to find the video? It's commercially available, on the Caught in the Act DVD release...

Its not on YouTube. Go ahead and put your copy out there. Cause it ain't there.

YouTube (or whomever) must have pulled it fairly recently, as I watched it on there maybe a few months ago. Also noticed "Rockin' The Paradise" is no longer there. Used to be, you could watch RTP on MTV or Vh1 sites, but it's not there anymore, either.

Not to ignite any wars, but doesn't the label decide what to release as a single? That was how I always thought it worked. I thought that the act may have input, but the label has the final decision. Or maybe the decisions are in each acts' contracts? I really don't know, I'm just asking.

Toph wrote:

Monker wrote:

Toph wrote:

Baron Von Bielski wrote:I think it would have been a hit as well on the charts... definitely top 20. It's odd that TS pushed so hard for a song to get released then that he doesn't even play today. You'd think that since he thought so much of it then that it'd be in the Styx set nowadays.

Tommy DIDN'T push for this song to be released. He decided after hundreds of thousands had been spent on the video (and probably after a few shots and lines) that the band should NOT release HWBHB as a single and instead release some live version of "Cold War". The record company balked at that and so they ended up releasing "High Time" which DDY said, "was probably the worst song of the entire album." Just through the momentum that the album had, HT went to #48, but there was little promotion from the record company, no video, and it was a substandard song. Imagine if HWBHB HAD been released with a video promoting it. A much more radio friendly song - would have scored well at both Pop and AC and given Kilroy 3 more months of action and maybe the impetus for a 4th single (JGTTN edited or Double Life?). Alas, yet another boneheaded moved cost them there.

What is boneheaded is people thinking they can write an alternate history and improve things, and not be doing anything but writing fiction.

Kilroy had run its course...Cornerstone had run its course....EOTC had more then run its course. Just because those albums were not as successful as some would have liked does not mean a fictional rewriting of history would change anything with any certainty.

You know, for all the flack DDY gets about being "controlling". It sure seems to me that TS had the band by the balls when it came for decisions about what singles to release. First Time - Tommy threatens to quit and they release substandard Why Me instead. No Boat on the River released in the US. The HWBHB debacle. Why they let Tommy get his way on these and inherently take the wind out of the sales of both Cornerstone and Kilroy, I have no idea.

Both "Cold War", "Haven't We Been Here Before" and even "Kiss Me Hello" were all about Tommy being unhappy, controlled, wanting to leave, and actually leaving, Styx. Ironic how you pick such a song to pick on and then make the above statement.

"First time" is mediocre.
"Why Me" is mediocre.
"Boat ont he River" is laughable as a US single.

Maybe if Dennis treated Styx like a band Kilroy itself would not have been a debacle that tore the band apart. The third single was irrelevent...."Mr Roboto" had sealed the album as a shark jumping excercise.

And, the band doesn't release singles, the label does....unless they owned A&M , "Styx" did not release the singles.

You are so full of shit Monker. You need to actually read history. Everything I've said is backed up by numerous interviews. Styx was the top band on the A&M roster, don't tell me that they didn't have input. So, get your head out of your ass and stop pushing you agenda...

You're an idiot who doesn't even understand what you yourself posted, and quoted.

YOU said, " It sure seems to me that TS had the band by the balls when it came for decisions about what singles to release."

I said NOTHING about influence...and neither did you. You were implying that Styx released the singles. The LABEL does the releasing...not the band. Well, at least not back then. Now you are going about in your usual trollish behavior and using misdirection to try change a clarification that I was making into an argument I am NOT making.

I know the history. What you are writing is a revision of history because you do not like the fact of how those albums sold.

Cassie May wrote:

Toph wrote:

ManOfMiracles wrote:How much trouble did you go through to find the video? It's commercially available, on the Caught in the Act DVD release...

Its not on YouTube. Go ahead and put your copy out there. Cause it ain't there.

YouTube (or whomever) must have pulled it fairly recently, as I watched it on there maybe a few months ago. Also noticed "Rockin' The Paradise" is no longer there. Used to be, you could watch RTP on MTV or Vh1 sites, but it's not there anymore, either.

Not to ignite any wars, but doesn't the label decide what to release as a single? That was how I always thought it worked. I thought that the act may have input, but the label has the final decision. Or maybe the decisions are in each acts' contracts? I really don't know, I'm just asking.

Ultimately, the label decides. Some bands have more influence then others over what singles are released. They, band and label, probably work with some John Kalodner type AOR person to decide on singles.

For videos, if Tommy did not like the video and he was in it, I'm pretty sure he has rights to not have it released because it has him image in it. So, the label could spend a billion dollars on a 5 minute video and Tommy could have it axed because he didn't like how his hair was combed.

Monker wrote:

Cassie May wrote:

Toph wrote:

ManOfMiracles wrote:How much trouble did you go through to find the video? It's commercially available, on the Caught in the Act DVD release...

Its not on YouTube. Go ahead and put your copy out there. Cause it ain't there.

YouTube (or whomever) must have pulled it fairly recently, as I watched it on there maybe a few months ago. Also noticed "Rockin' The Paradise" is no longer there. Used to be, you could watch RTP on MTV or Vh1 sites, but it's not there anymore, either.

Not to ignite any wars, but doesn't the label decide what to release as a single? That was how I always thought it worked. I thought that the act may have input, but the label has the final decision. Or maybe the decisions are in each acts' contracts? I really don't know, I'm just asking.

Ultimately, the label decides. Some bands have more influence then others over what singles are released. They, band and label, probably work with some John Kalodner type AOR person to decide on singles.

For videos, if Tommy did not like the video and he was in it, I'm pretty sure he has rights to not have it released because it has him image in it. So, the label could spend a billion dollars on a 5 minute video and Tommy could have it axed because he didn't like how his hair was combed.

You're right about the video thing--when Tommy filmed his original video for "Girls With Guns," for example, he did not like the final product--it was very glossy, very 80s-production (what he was trying to get away from), and A&M let him scrap it and film the B&W version. Still, I scratch my head over HWBHB and Music Time. How could anyone have thought those were any good?

You're right about the video thing--when Tommy filmed his original video for "Girls With Guns," for example, he did not like the final product--it was very glossy, very 80s-production (what he was trying to get away from), and A&M let him scrap it and film the B&W version. Still, I scratch my head over HWBHB and Music Time. How could anyone have thought those were any good?

Well, that's easy to explain. People have opions. And if you can not like them, others can simply like them anyway. AND they may not be able to understand how anyone could NOT like them. Funny how that works.

Monker wrote:

Toph wrote:

Monker wrote:

Toph wrote:

Baron Von Bielski wrote:I think it would have been a hit as well on the charts... definitely top 20. It's odd that TS pushed so hard for a song to get released then that he doesn't even play today. You'd think that since he thought so much of it then that it'd be in the Styx set nowadays.

Tommy DIDN'T push for this song to be released. He decided after hundreds of thousands had been spent on the video (and probably after a few shots and lines) that the band should NOT release HWBHB as a single and instead release some live version of "Cold War". The record company balked at that and so they ended up releasing "High Time" which DDY said, "was probably the worst song of the entire album." Just through the momentum that the album had, HT went to #48, but there was little promotion from the record company, no video, and it was a substandard song. Imagine if HWBHB HAD been released with a video promoting it. A much more radio friendly song - would have scored well at both Pop and AC and given Kilroy 3 more months of action and maybe the impetus for a 4th single (JGTTN edited or Double Life?). Alas, yet another boneheaded moved cost them there.

What is boneheaded is people thinking they can write an alternate history and improve things, and not be doing anything but writing fiction.

Kilroy had run its course...Cornerstone had run its course....EOTC had more then run its course. Just because those albums were not as successful as some would have liked does not mean a fictional rewriting of history would change anything with any certainty.

You know, for all the flack DDY gets about being "controlling". It sure seems to me that TS had the band by the balls when it came for decisions about what singles to release. First Time - Tommy threatens to quit and they release substandard Why Me instead. No Boat on the River released in the US. The HWBHB debacle. Why they let Tommy get his way on these and inherently take the wind out of the sales of both Cornerstone and Kilroy, I have no idea.

Both "Cold War", "Haven't We Been Here Before" and even "Kiss Me Hello" were all about Tommy being unhappy, controlled, wanting to leave, and actually leaving, Styx. Ironic how you pick such a song to pick on and then make the above statement.

"First time" is mediocre.
"Why Me" is mediocre.
"Boat ont he River" is laughable as a US single.

Maybe if Dennis treated Styx like a band Kilroy itself would not have been a debacle that tore the band apart. The third single was irrelevent...."Mr Roboto" had sealed the album as a shark jumping excercise.

And, the band doesn't release singles, the label does....unless they owned A&M , "Styx" did not release the singles.

You are so full of shit Monker. You need to actually read history. Everything I've said is backed up by numerous interviews. Styx was the top band on the A&M roster, don't tell me that they didn't have input. So, get your head out of your ass and stop pushing you agenda...

You're an idiot who doesn't even understand what you yourself posted, and quoted.

YOU said, " It sure seems to me that TS had the band by the balls when it came for decisions about what singles to release."

I said NOTHING about influence...and neither did you. You were implying that Styx released the singles. The LABEL does the releasing...not the band. Well, at least not back then. Now you are going about in your usual trollish behavior and using misdirection to try change a clarification that I was making into an argument I am NOT making.

I know the history. What you are writing is a revision of history because you do not like the fact of how those albums sold.

You don't know shit, asswipe. You are so full of shit it is unbelievable. You are a troll that gets on these forums to stream your ignorance. If the band had no fucking influence on singles, then how come Shaw was able to personally stop First Time from being released? How was he able to stop, yes, stop HWBHB from being released despite the fact that over 100,000 had been made on the making of a video?

Go fuck yourself Monker, you are a waste of time.

Monker wrote:

Cassie May wrote:

Toph wrote:

ManOfMiracles wrote:How much trouble did you go through to find the video? It's commercially available, on the Caught in the Act DVD release...

Its not on YouTube. Go ahead and put your copy out there. Cause it ain't there.

YouTube (or whomever) must have pulled it fairly recently, as I watched it on there maybe a few months ago. Also noticed "Rockin' The Paradise" is no longer there. Used to be, you could watch RTP on MTV or Vh1 sites, but it's not there anymore, either.

Not to ignite any wars, but doesn't the label decide what to release as a single? That was how I always thought it worked. I thought that the act may have input, but the label has the final decision. Or maybe the decisions are in each acts' contracts? I really don't know, I'm just asking.

Ultimately, the label decides. Some bands have more influence then others over what singles are released. They, band and label, probably work with some John Kalodner type AOR person to decide on singles.

For videos, if Tommy did not like the video and he was in it, I'm pretty sure he has rights to not have it released because it has him image in it. So, the label could spend a billion dollars on a 5 minute video and Tommy could have it axed because he didn't like how his hair was combed.

you know nothing of what you are talking about. MONKER _ FULL OF SHI-ITE.

Cassie May wrote:

Monker wrote:

Cassie May wrote:

Toph wrote:

ManOfMiracles wrote:How much trouble did you go through to find the video? It's commercially available, on the Caught in the Act DVD release...

Its not on YouTube. Go ahead and put your copy out there. Cause it ain't there.

YouTube (or whomever) must have pulled it fairly recently, as I watched it on there maybe a few months ago. Also noticed "Rockin' The Paradise" is no longer there. Used to be, you could watch RTP on MTV or Vh1 sites, but it's not there anymore, either.

Not to ignite any wars, but doesn't the label decide what to release as a single? That was how I always thought it worked. I thought that the act may have input, but the label has the final decision. Or maybe the decisions are in each acts' contracts? I really don't know, I'm just asking.

Ultimately, the label decides. Some bands have more influence then others over what singles are released. They, band and label, probably work with some John Kalodner type AOR person to decide on singles.

For videos, if Tommy did not like the video and he was in it, I'm pretty sure he has rights to not have it released because it has him image in it. So, the label could spend a billion dollars on a 5 minute video and Tommy could have it axed because he didn't like how his hair was combed.

You're right about the video thing--when Tommy filmed his original video for "Girls With Guns," for example, he did not like the final product--it was very glossy, very 80s-production (what he was trying to get away from), and A&M let him scrap it and film the B&W version. Still, I scratch my head over HWBHB and Music Time. How could anyone have thought those were any good?

Quite a few people do.

Toph wrote:You don't know shit, asswipe. You are so full of shit it is unbelievable. You are a troll that gets on these forums to stream your ignorance. If the band had no fucking influence on singles, then how come Shaw was able to personally stop First Time from being released? How was he able to stop, yes, stop HWBHB from being released despite the fact that over 100,000 had been made on the making of a video?

Go fuck yourself Monker, you are a waste of time.

Ok, I give up. You must be as retarded as froyline.

Again, I'm not arguing about bands having influence. I simply stated that LABELS release the singles. THAT is the truth. If you are going to argue with that, go for it. You have already proven yourself to have some mental disorder because you can't seem to comprehend what is quoted several times in YOU posts....so maybe you will.

ManOfMiracles wrote:

You're right about the video thing--when Tommy filmed his original video for "Girls With Guns," for example, he did not like the final product--it was very glossy, very 80s-production (what he was trying to get away from), and A&M let him scrap it and film the B&W version. Still, I scratch my head over HWBHB and Music Time. How could anyone have thought those were any good?

Well, that's easy to explain. People have opions. And if you can not like them, others can simply like them anyway. AND they may not be able to understand how anyone could NOT like them. Funny how that works.

I think what she is saying "What's there to like?"

I think Music Time is all around pathetic. The original GWG video is cheesy....but so is the song itself, so it didn't really make much difference to me one way or another.

Toph wrote:The fact that this video never saw the light of day and the single was never released goes down as one of Styx's top 5 boneheaded moves. The fact that they went through all that expense and made such a intriguing video would have eased them through a very painful time a bit better. As one member said, "There's no deodorant like success." This would have undoubtedly been the third top 10 off the album and given it much more life. But one member's haphazard decision making caused this never to be released to major video stations or as a single. Yet another missed opportunity. So, this gets ranked way up there because it was such a unique video and such a departure from Styx. Had a tough time finding this one.....

http://video.mail.ru/bk/vav1959/10921/10962.html

Don't think I've seen that before, it is very odd. But they sure do sound good together on the chorus, shame we'll never get that sound again.

I liked the video. I've never seen it before this post - so thanks for posting it.

Tommy looks older/more mature in this video than I remember him looking at the time in other video. Music Video stories very rarely match the lyric to the song, so that doesn't really bother me. It's an artistic piece featuring the guys in the band and I think it came off pretty well. It's a ton better than Roboto in terms of Music Video artistic value.

Just a shame. I almost like this video more than I like the song.

This video references better than anything the processes that went on to create videos in the 80's, and probably go on today as well.

It is hilarious and spot-on. One of my all-time faves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7Z-eUmR2bM&ob=av2e


Bugsy

Monker wrote:

ManOfMiracles wrote:

You're right about the video thing--when Tommy filmed his original video for "Girls With Guns," for example, he did not like the final product--it was very glossy, very 80s-production (what he was trying to get away from), and A&M let him scrap it and film the B&W version. Still, I scratch my head over HWBHB and Music Time. How could anyone have thought those were any good?

Well, that's easy to explain. People have opions. And if you can not like them, others can simply like them anyway. AND they may not be able to understand how anyone could NOT like them. Funny how that works.

I think what she is saying "What's there to like?"

I think Music Time is all around pathetic. The original GWG video is cheesy....but so is the song itself, so it didn't really make much difference to me one way or another.

Correct. I was saying exactly that. And yes, I know everyone has opinions, but also, everyone has that right to not only state opinions, but to disagree with them, as well. And, my opinion about HWBHB is: great song, nuts video. MT: terrible song, even worse video that I find embarrassing to watch--because I feel embarrassed for all the guys. Hard to believe this was the same band that put out the Grand Illusion. And, before anyone chimes in with, "But this was the 80s, they were changing with the times, blah, blah, blah...", I feel that you can change with the times but maintain your integrity and dignity. Just MHO, of course.

are you sure this wasnt released, i remeber seeing it on friday night videos or night flight maybe, maybe it was released later

sniper16 wrote:are you sure this wasnt released, i remeber seeing it on friday night videos or night flight maybe, maybe it was released later

The video was released to Friday Night Videos, but the song itself was never released as a single to radio.