This forum has died.

[Baron Von Bielski]

So Froy gets the boot and it turn into tumbleweeds in a ghost town around here. Don't we have anything Styx related to talk about? Some of us may not like the lineup or their lack of musical creativity, but we can certainly talk about when they were great. I had my iPod on shuffle this evening and I was skipping most of it's selection till it chose "Borrowed Time". An excellent song written by two members at the top of their game. It should have been a hit. I love that song. I wish I grew up in the 70's.

[gr8dane]

So Froy gets the boot and it turn into tumbleweeds in a ghost town around here. Don't we have anything Styx related to talk about? Some of us may not like the lineup or their lack of musical creativity, but we can certainly talk about when they were great. I had my iPod on shuffle this evening and I was skipping most of it's selection till it chose "Borrowed Time". An excellent song written by two members at the top of their game. It should have been a hit. I love that song. I wish I grew up in the 70's.

I think everybody is just taking a little rest.
Styx and Dennis is winding down also for the season.
Froy didn't exactly have much to say really.He was on repeat over 7000 posts.
He was our prime shit slinger.Then his followers would follow and then his non followers would loop the shit back.That was all.

Borrowed time is indeed a classic,and is also on my I-Pod still.

I grew up in the 70s and it was a glorious time.
Went to just about every band/concert coming through town.
I miss my bell bottoms.

[Cassie May]

I loved the 70s. Great time to be a kid transitioning into a teen. The music was awesome, TV was not the vapid, reality-based wasteland it is now, and movies were NOT remakes, retreads, and based on TV shows or cartoon/comic book characters. Hollywood had plenty of original ideas still. The only thing about the 70s that I look back on and shudder about is the clothing. Ugh, ugh, ugh......

And yes, "Borrowed Time" should have received more attention than it did.

Froy is not missed by this poster; I generally skipped his posts, as all he did was bellow the same garbage over and over and over and over.........

[Toph]

So Froy gets the boot and it turn into tumbleweeds in a ghost town around here. Don't we have anything Styx related to talk about? Some of us may not like the lineup or their lack of musical creativity, but we can certainly talk about when they were great. I had my iPod on shuffle this evening and I was skipping most of it's selection till it chose "Borrowed Time". An excellent song written by two members at the top of their game. It should have been a hit. I love that song. I wish I grew up in the 70's.

There were a lot of missed gems on the Cornerstone LP. For an LP that is sometimes hated on by folks, if they had gotten the single release strategy right, it would have been huge.

Songs that should have been big hits on Cornerstone.
- First Time - would have been a second #1 hit
- Lights - Lots of pop oriented influence - a Foolin Yourself sequel in terms of style; have no idea why it wasn't released
- Boat On The River - Huge in Europe; who knows - it might have done quite well here as a later single release
- Borrowed Time - why this didn't get huge airplay on rock stations, I have no idea....

First Time and Babe would have been #1; Lights - top 20; Boat On The River - might have been a top 10 single; Borrowed Time - a top rock track; Cornerstone all of a sudden goes from an album that barely sells 3 million to one that sells 5-6 million.

[masque]

borrowed time is one of their best tunes and it and lights are my two favorites on the album along with boat on the river.

[Baron Von Bielski]

I was born in 1973 so I really didn't get to experience the 70's the way I wish I could have. Instead it was the 80's. Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of great stuff that came out then... But not like the 70's. I'm envious of anyone who experienced what it was like to enjoy all those great bands (Styx) in their prime when so much buzz surrounded them. To have been able to buy Grand Illusion in '77 right after it was released must have been amazing. When that needle touched the vinyl and delivered the opening notes to GI. Wow!! It must have blown some of you away. Do you remember this moment or others like it?

[Cassie May]

Keep in mind that during the 70s, media was so much different than today. Styx was huge then, but you never read much press on them, unless it was negative and derisive. The only "buzz" I knew about them was what my friends and I all buzzed about! It wasn't cool even then, in junior high and high school to admit you liked Styx, but boy, did I see a lot of shirts around after they were in town (I owned quite a few, myself). Now, I realize a lot of the lack of media coverage was due to Derek; however, as a teen during the glory years, it was frustrating to want to know more about the band and have to rely on the god-awful teen mags and their cheesy "interviews." It was very rare to find a decent article on the band; Circus did one in Dec of 79 that I still have, and Guitar Player had a nice spread on Tommy, Chuck, and JY. Mostly all I could ever find was 16 Magazine and Rockline articles; the bulk of those stories played up Tommy as the hunk of the band. Sometimes I wonder how different things may have been had the Internet been in existence then.

My clearest memory of purchasing a brand-new Styx album is of Paradise Theater. My best friend and I knew the release date had been reported as January 1, 1981; we hounded our local record stores by phone daily, calling and asking repeatedly, "Is the new Styx album in yet?" On January 3, we finally had an affirmative answer and she "borrowed" her father's car, picked me up, and off we raced to the mall. I remember being entranced by the laser etching, and, being an artist, I loved the album's front cover. Beautifully done.

[Archetype]

So Froy gets the boot and it turn into tumbleweeds in a ghost town around here. Don't we have anything Styx related to talk about? Some of us may not like the lineup or their lack of musical creativity, but we can certainly talk about when they were great. I had my iPod on shuffle this evening and I was skipping most of it's selection till it chose "Borrowed Time". An excellent song written by two members at the top of their game. It should have been a hit. I love that song. I wish I grew up in the 70's.

There were a lot of missed gems on the Cornerstone LP. For an LP that is sometimes hated on by folks, if they had gotten the single release strategy right, it would have been huge.

Songs that should have been big hits on Cornerstone.
- First Time - would have been a second #1 hit
- Lights - Lots of pop oriented influence - a Foolin Yourself sequel in terms of style; have no idea why it wasn't released
- Boat On The River - Huge in Europe; who knows - it might have done quite well here as a later single release
- Borrowed Time - why this didn't get huge airplay on rock stations, I have no idea....

First Time and Babe would have been #1; Lights - top 20; Boat On The River - might have been a top 10 single; Borrowed Time - a top rock track; Cornerstone all of a sudden goes from an album that barely sells 3 million to one that sells 5-6 million.

You forgot about "Love In The Midnight"

[Toph]

So Froy gets the boot and it turn into tumbleweeds in a ghost town around here. Don't we have anything Styx related to talk about? Some of us may not like the lineup or their lack of musical creativity, but we can certainly talk about when they were great. I had my iPod on shuffle this evening and I was skipping most of it's selection till it chose "Borrowed Time". An excellent song written by two members at the top of their game. It should have been a hit. I love that song. I wish I grew up in the 70's.

There were a lot of missed gems on the Cornerstone LP. For an LP that is sometimes hated on by folks, if they had gotten the single release strategy right, it would have been huge.

Songs that should have been big hits on Cornerstone.
- First Time - would have been a second #1 hit
- Lights - Lots of pop oriented influence - a Foolin Yourself sequel in terms of style; have no idea why it wasn't released
- Boat On The River - Huge in Europe; who knows - it might have done quite well here as a later single release
- Borrowed Time - why this didn't get huge airplay on rock stations, I have no idea....

First Time and Babe would have been #1; Lights - top 20; Boat On The River - might have been a top 10 single; Borrowed Time - a top rock track; Cornerstone all of a sudden goes from an album that barely sells 3 million to one that sells 5-6 million.

You forgot about "Love In The Midnight"

Good song, but probably not a single. Unless it could have gotten play in the rock station genre.

[Boomchild]

So Froy gets the boot and it turn into tumbleweeds in a ghost town around here. Don't we have anything Styx related to talk about? Some of us may not like the lineup or their lack of musical creativity, but we can certainly talk about when they were great. I had my iPod on shuffle this evening and I was skipping most of it's selection till it chose "Borrowed Time". An excellent song written by two members at the top of their game. It should have been a hit. I love that song. I wish I grew up in the 70's.

Borrowed Time is one of my favs from Cornerstone. That and Why Me are the ones that stand out for me. I loved the art work and packaging of that album too. Neat concept.

[DarrenUK]

Why was Froy booted ?
Let me guess it is because he was found to be carrying Gowans lovechild ?

[FormerDJMike]

I think this is a trend. Due to Facebook and other social network sites "bulletin boards" in general have lost a lot of posters/members. I'm on several "rock" boards and all of them are in steady decline.

Personally I am not on MySpace, Facebook, Google + or any of them. I see them as a time waster and many people (not all) live in a fantasy world with how many "friends" they have and how great they make themselves look while in reality they are miserable people. My friends are in my household and work place and my Styx friends I have made over the years and met at many shows. That's not to say social networking is bad -- it isn't. I hear it's a great way to catch up with long lost relatives and childhood friends. But i can do any of that on e-mail and my number is in the phone book.

Mikey

[Toph]

I think this is a trend. Due to Facebook and other social network sites "bulletin boards" in general have lost a lot of posters/members. I'm on several "rock" boards and all of them are in steady decline.

Personally I am not on MySpace, Facebook, Google + or any of them. I see them as a time waster and many people (not all) live in a fantasy world with how many "friends" they have and how great they make themselves look while in reality they are miserable people. My friends are in my household and work place and my Styx friends I have made over the years and met at many shows. That's not to say social networking is bad -- it isn't. I hear it's a great way to catch up with long lost relatives and childhood friends. But i can do any of that on e-mail and my number is in the phone book.

Mikey

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVH8rkaU2kw

[Archetype]

I think this is a trend. Due to Facebook and other social network sites "bulletin boards" in general have lost a lot of posters/members. I'm on several "rock" boards and all of them are in steady decline.

Personally I am not on MySpace, Facebook, Google + or any of them. I see them as a time waster and many people (not all) live in a fantasy world with how many "friends" they have and how great they make themselves look while in reality they are miserable people. My friends are in my household and work place and my Styx friends I have made over the years and met at many shows. That's not to say social networking is bad -- it isn't. I hear it's a great way to catch up with long lost relatives and childhood friends. But i can do any of that on e-mail and my number is in the phone book.

Mikey

ar15.com regularly has 1,000+ members online at anytime. It's because the subject of the forum is constantly evolving, innovating. and growing. Styx is clinging to their past, re-relasing bullshit, and dwindling. This forum is a reflection of that.

[Rockwriter]

Keep in mind that during the 70s, media was so much different than today. Styx was huge then, but you never read much press on them, unless it was negative and derisive. The only "buzz" I knew about them was what my friends and I all buzzed about! It wasn't cool even then, in junior high and high school to admit you liked Styx, but boy, did I see a lot of shirts around after they were in town (I owned quite a few, myself). Now, I realize a lot of the lack of media coverage was due to Derek; however, as a teen during the glory years, it was frustrating to want to know more about the band and have to rely on the god-awful teen mags and their cheesy "interviews." It was very rare to find a decent article on the band; Circus did one in Dec of 79 that I still have, and Guitar Player had a nice spread on Tommy, Chuck, and JY. Mostly all I could ever find was 16 Magazine and Rockline articles; the bulk of those stories played up Tommy as the hunk of the band. Sometimes I wonder how different things may have been had the Internet been in existence then.

My clearest memory of purchasing a brand-new Styx album is of Paradise Theater. My best friend and I knew the release date had been reported as January 1, 1981; we hounded our local record stores by phone daily, calling and asking repeatedly, "Is the new Styx album in yet?" On January 3, we finally had an affirmative answer and she "borrowed" her father's car, picked me up, and off we raced to the mall. I remember being entranced by the laser etching, and, being an artist, I loved the album's front cover. Beautifully done.

I have to disagree about the lack of media coverage being because of Derek . . . or rather, I agree he is responsible, but I also think he was right.

The reality is, although the members of Styx tend to find it convenient to blame him for that - and yes, he did/does have a stated disdain for the mainstream media - the hard reality is that Styx is/was (especially back then) quite simply one of the most media-tarded bands I have seen in my life. I know an awful lot of writers and others in the business who feel the same way. I also know a bunch of different publicists who have worked directly with the band, and whenever I talk to any of them we all have a laugh about some of the stuff the band has done and said. Being their publicist has got to be one of the worst jobs in rock music.

Consequently, I stand by the notion that Derek was right to limit the exposure of this band to only its target audience. He saw from early on that Styx understood radio very well, and understood touring very well, but was woefully lacking in savvy about the print and electronic media. So he helped them devise a strategy that emphasized their strengths - radio and touring - while trying to protect them from their weaknesses as much as possible. Let's face it, those guys get irritated way out of proportion whenever anything even remotely negative gets printed (especially back then), and then they react by making things worse. They were never, ever, ever going to get on board with Rolling Stone or any other real newspaper/magazine that actually engages in real journalism - i.e., makes a real assessment of strengths and weaknesses. Look at the way they reacted to that 'Rock 'n' Retail' thing . . . they were royally pissed about that, despite the fact that IT'S A POSITIVE PIECE! It was just positive with a slant they didn't like. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Why does this band shoot itself in the foot so much?

You made a good point about the magazines that Styx DID work with - those types of "rags" that only offered mostly positive puff pieces, not real journalism. JY even got a little bit pissed at the guy who wrote that series of articles for the Chicago Sun-Times, which was by far the biggest piece of print exposure the band had gotten at that point, and it almost was entirely positive. But the guy quoted JY as saying, "Booze is my bag, let's get loaded," and he did not like that being in print . . . although HE ACTUALLY SAID IT. He didn't deny saying it, he just didn't like it. That's the Styx vs. the media mindset right there: "Don't report us fairly, report us positively." LOL. The question with this band is, "Which came first, the fact that writers don't like Styx, or the fact that Styx has historically dealt poorly with writers?"

The other thing is this: No matter what Derek did or did not do, Rolling Stone and company would have never given Styx good reviews or positive coverage, ever. They hated ALL that type of band, not just Styx. So it's not like Derek was wrong not to try to work with them because it never would have done any good, anyway.

Derek took them from a one-hit wonder band to the largest concert draw in North America in six years, and after they fired him, they have never been anywhere near that level of success ever again. Nowhere close. Yet another harmful thing that band did to itself.


Sterling

[bugsymalone]

I think DJMike's statement has some real relevance. Blogs, Social Media, etc. scatter the places one can go to get and share info. I would couple that, not with Froy being gone, but simply Same Verse Syndrome. I, for one, have kinda checked out of the battles because they are the same ones, fought over the same turf, with never any sort of different result. We have kinda visited this all, oh, a billion times before, and it is all getting a bit old and tired. Just like me.

Borrowed time is indeed a classic,and is also on my I-Pod still.

I grew up in the 70s and it was a glorious time.
Went to just about every band/concert coming through town.
I miss my bell bottoms.

I like this, Gr8. Well said.

Happy Christmas everyone.

Bugsy

[Boomchild]

Keep in mind that during the 70s, media was so much different than today. Styx was huge then, but you never read much press on them, unless it was negative and derisive. The only "buzz" I knew about them was what my friends and I all buzzed about! It wasn't cool even then, in junior high and high school to admit you liked Styx, but boy, did I see a lot of shirts around after they were in town (I owned quite a few, myself). Now, I realize a lot of the lack of media coverage was due to Derek; however, as a teen during the glory years, it was frustrating to want to know more about the band and have to rely on the god-awful teen mags and their cheesy "interviews." It was very rare to find a decent article on the band; Circus did one in Dec of 79 that I still have, and Guitar Player had a nice spread on Tommy, Chuck, and JY. Mostly all I could ever find was 16 Magazine and Rockline articles; the bulk of those stories played up Tommy as the hunk of the band. Sometimes I wonder how different things may have been had the Internet been in existence then.

My clearest memory of purchasing a brand-new Styx album is of Paradise Theater. My best friend and I knew the release date had been reported as January 1, 1981; we hounded our local record stores by phone daily, calling and asking repeatedly, "Is the new Styx album in yet?" On January 3, we finally had an affirmative answer and she "borrowed" her father's car, picked me up, and off we raced to the mall. I remember being entranced by the laser etching, and, being an artist, I loved the album's front cover. Beautifully done.

I have to disagree about the lack of media coverage being because of Derek . . . or rather, I agree he is responsible, but I also think he was right.

The reality is, although the members of Styx tend to find it convenient to blame him for that - and yes, he did/does have a stated disdain for the mainstream media - the hard reality is that Styx is/was (especially back then) quite simply one of the most media-tarded bands I have seen in my life. I know an awful lot of writers and others in the business who feel the same way. I also know a bunch of different publicists who have worked directly with the band, and whenever I talk to any of them we all have a laugh about some of the stuff the band has done and said. Being their publicist has got to be one of the worst jobs in rock music.

Consequently, I stand by the notion that Derek was right to limit the exposure of this band to only its target audience. He saw from early on that Styx understood radio very well, and understood touring very well, but was woefully lacking in savvy about the print and electronic media. So he helped them devise a strategy that emphasized their strengths - radio and touring - while trying to protect them from their weaknesses as much as possible. Let's face it, those guys get irritated way out of proportion whenever anything even remotely negative gets printed (especially back then), and then they react by making things worse. They were never, ever, ever going to get on board with Rolling Stone or any other real newspaper/magazine that actually engages in real journalism - i.e., makes a real assessment of strengths and weaknesses. Look at the way they reacted to that 'Rock 'n' Retail' thing . . . they were royally pissed about that, despite the fact that IT'S A POSITIVE PIECE! It was just positive with a slant they didn't like. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Why does this band shoot itself in the foot so much?

You made a good point about the magazines that Styx DID work with - those types of "rags" that only offered mostly positive puff pieces, not real journalism. JY even got a little bit pissed at the guy who wrote that series of articles for the Chicago Sun-Times, which was by far the biggest piece of print exposure the band had gotten at that point, and it almost was entirely positive. But the guy quoted JY as saying, "Booze is my bag, let's get loaded," and he did not like that being in print . . . although HE ACTUALLY SAID IT. He didn't deny saying it, he just didn't like it. That's the Styx vs. the media mindset right there: "Don't report us fairly, report us positively." LOL. The question with this band is, "Which came first, the fact that writers don't like Styx, or the fact that Styx has historically dealt poorly with writers?"

The other thing is this: No matter what Derek did or did not do, Rolling Stone and company would have never given Styx good reviews or positive coverage, ever. They hated ALL that type of band, not just Styx. So it's not like Derek was wrong not to try to work with them because it never would have done any good, anyway.

Derek took them from a one-hit wonder band to the largest concert draw in North America in six years, and after they fired him, they have never been anywhere near that level of success ever again. Nowhere close. Yet another harmful thing that band did to itself.


Sterling

So Sterling if Styx stuck with Derek as their manager what do think would have been different for them? Perhaps shielding the band from print and electronic media was not the right choice. Instead couldn't he have worked with them to be better at working with those and helping them to understand that power it has in addition to radio and touring?

[SuiteMadameBlue]

You made a good point about the magazines that Styx DID work with - those types of "rags" that only offered mostly positive puff pieces, not real journalism. JY even got a little bit pissed at the guy who wrote that series of articles for the Chicago Sun-Times, which was by far the biggest piece of print exposure the band had gotten at that point, and it almost was entirely positive. But the guy quoted JY as saying, "Booze is my bag, let's get loaded," and he did not like that being in print . . . although HE ACTUALLY SAID IT. He didn't deny saying it, he just didn't like it. That's the Styx vs. the media mindset right there: "Don't report us fairly, report us positively." LOL. The question with this band is, "Which came first, the fact that writers don't like Styx, or the fact that Styx has historically dealt poorly with writers?"

Sterling

Are you talking about the 4 part article by Rick Kogan ?

As for Derek Sutton, I have a taped interview with him from 2 years ago. I'll have to find and review it to see if he mentions anything about publicity during his time.

[gr8dane]

I think this is a trend. Due to Facebook and other social network sites "bulletin boards" in general have lost a lot of posters/members. I'm on several "rock" boards and all of them are in steady decline.

Personally I am not on MySpace, Facebook, Google + or any of them. I see them as a time waster and many people (not all) live in a fantasy world with how many "friends" they have and how great they make themselves look while in reality they are miserable people. My friends are in my household and work place and my Styx friends I have made over the years and met at many shows. That's not to say social networking is bad -- it isn't. I hear it's a great way to catch up with long lost relatives and childhood friends. But i can do any of that on e-mail and my number is in the phone book.

Mikey

ar15.com regularly has 1,000+ members online at anytime. It's because the subject of the forum is constantly evolving, innovating. and growing. Styx is clinging to their past, re-relasing bullshit, and dwindling. This forum is a reflection of that.

http://youtu.be/l0O3k04pxOQ


Ar15? You might enjoy this one.....

And merry Christmas all.

[brywool]

Because every post turned into the same topic eventually.

[gr8dane]

I think this is a trend. Due to Facebook and other social network sites "bulletin boards" in general have lost a lot of posters/members. I'm on several "rock" boards and all of them are in steady decline.

Personally I am not on MySpace, Facebook, Google + or any of them. I see them as a time waster and many people (not all) live in a fantasy world with how many "friends" they have and how great they make themselves look while in reality they are miserable people. My friends are in my household and work place and my Styx friends I have made over the years and met at many shows. That's not to say social networking is bad -- it isn't. I hear it's a great way to catch up with long lost relatives and childhood friends. But i can do any of that on e-mail and my number is in the phone book.

Mikey

ar15.com regularly has 1,000+ members online at anytime. It's because the subject of the forum is constantly evolving, innovating. and growing. Styx is clinging to their past, re-relasing bullshit, and dwindling. This forum is a reflection of that.

Ooops,slight quoting problem.

Yes ,gun culture is constantly evolving,being innovative,and GROWING...
Talking about growing,


http://youtu.be/l0O3k04pxOQ


Ar15? You might enjoy this one.....

And merry Christmas all.

[gr8dane]

Because every post turned into the same topic eventually.

Ain't that the truth.

[Rockwriter]

Keep in mind that during the 70s, media was so much different than today. Styx was huge then, but you never read much press on them, unless it was negative and derisive. The only "buzz" I knew about them was what my friends and I all buzzed about! It wasn't cool even then, in junior high and high school to admit you liked Styx, but boy, did I see a lot of shirts around after they were in town (I owned quite a few, myself). Now, I realize a lot of the lack of media coverage was due to Derek; however, as a teen during the glory years, it was frustrating to want to know more about the band and have to rely on the god-awful teen mags and their cheesy "interviews." It was very rare to find a decent article on the band; Circus did one in Dec of 79 that I still have, and Guitar Player had a nice spread on Tommy, Chuck, and JY. Mostly all I could ever find was 16 Magazine and Rockline articles; the bulk of those stories played up Tommy as the hunk of the band. Sometimes I wonder how different things may have been had the Internet been in existence then.

My clearest memory of purchasing a brand-new Styx album is of Paradise Theater. My best friend and I knew the release date had been reported as January 1, 1981; we hounded our local record stores by phone daily, calling and asking repeatedly, "Is the new Styx album in yet?" On January 3, we finally had an affirmative answer and she "borrowed" her father's car, picked me up, and off we raced to the mall. I remember being entranced by the laser etching, and, being an artist, I loved the album's front cover. Beautifully done.

I have to disagree about the lack of media coverage being because of Derek . . . or rather, I agree he is responsible, but I also think he was right.

The reality is, although the members of Styx tend to find it convenient to blame him for that - and yes, he did/does have a stated disdain for the mainstream media - the hard reality is that Styx is/was (especially back then) quite simply one of the most media-tarded bands I have seen in my life. I know an awful lot of writers and others in the business who feel the same way. I also know a bunch of different publicists who have worked directly with the band, and whenever I talk to any of them we all have a laugh about some of the stuff the band has done and said. Being their publicist has got to be one of the worst jobs in rock music.

Consequently, I stand by the notion that Derek was right to limit the exposure of this band to only its target audience. He saw from early on that Styx understood radio very well, and understood touring very well, but was woefully lacking in savvy about the print and electronic media. So he helped them devise a strategy that emphasized their strengths - radio and touring - while trying to protect them from their weaknesses as much as possible. Let's face it, those guys get irritated way out of proportion whenever anything even remotely negative gets printed (especially back then), and then they react by making things worse. They were never, ever, ever going to get on board with Rolling Stone or any other real newspaper/magazine that actually engages in real journalism - i.e., makes a real assessment of strengths and weaknesses. Look at the way they reacted to that 'Rock 'n' Retail' thing . . . they were royally pissed about that, despite the fact that IT'S A POSITIVE PIECE! It was just positive with a slant they didn't like. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Why does this band shoot itself in the foot so much?

You made a good point about the magazines that Styx DID work with - those types of "rags" that only offered mostly positive puff pieces, not real journalism. JY even got a little bit pissed at the guy who wrote that series of articles for the Chicago Sun-Times, which was by far the biggest piece of print exposure the band had gotten at that point, and it almost was entirely positive. But the guy quoted JY as saying, "Booze is my bag, let's get loaded," and he did not like that being in print . . . although HE ACTUALLY SAID IT. He didn't deny saying it, he just didn't like it. That's the Styx vs. the media mindset right there: "Don't report us fairly, report us positively." LOL. The question with this band is, "Which came first, the fact that writers don't like Styx, or the fact that Styx has historically dealt poorly with writers?"

The other thing is this: No matter what Derek did or did not do, Rolling Stone and company would have never given Styx good reviews or positive coverage, ever. They hated ALL that type of band, not just Styx. So it's not like Derek was wrong not to try to work with them because it never would have done any good, anyway.

Derek took them from a one-hit wonder band to the largest concert draw in North America in six years, and after they fired him, they have never been anywhere near that level of success ever again. Nowhere close. Yet another harmful thing that band did to itself.


Sterling

So Sterling if Styx stuck with Derek as their manager what do think would have been different for them? Perhaps shielding the band from print and electronic media was not the right choice. Instead couldn't he have worked with them to be better at working with those and helping them to understand that power it has in addition to radio and touring?

Derek DID recognize that Styx needed to learn to do that to take the next step. Consequently he hired Howard Bloom, the top PR guy probably EVER in rock music, to do it . . . and it worked. That was for PT, and if you notice, PT was the one and only Styx album to get the band some positive mainstream write-ups, including the New York Times. Even Rolling Stone had an article entitled something like "Stadium Rock Reassessed" or something like that, that said nice things about Styx. If they had stayed with Bloom they maybe could have had People and all the rest of it because he had those connections. But they got pissed about the New York Times thing because it focused on marketing instead of music, and that's also when the thing between Derek and Dennis' wife happened, and they fired Derek. They brought in Azoff, who really didn't give a shit about the band, and he only ever spoke to DDY instead of the whole band as Derek did. Derek would have prevented 'Kilroy' from going the way it did . . . he intended for it to be a studio film, and Styx would have only made a brief appearance as the band. They would not have embarrassed themselves by going out and revealing what terrible actors they were in the low-budget film they financed themselves instead.

When Azoff came in, he fired Howard Bloom, and the band has had a long string of publicists since then. It's a thankless job, sometimes literally. I know a guy who did PR during the RTP era, and the band thanked Dennis' clothier in the liner notes, but forgot him, LOL. Nice. I wonder why people hate the gig?

Sterling

[Rockwriter]

You made a good point about the magazines that Styx DID work with - those types of "rags" that only offered mostly positive puff pieces, not real journalism. JY even got a little bit pissed at the guy who wrote that series of articles for the Chicago Sun-Times, which was by far the biggest piece of print exposure the band had gotten at that point, and it almost was entirely positive. But the guy quoted JY as saying, "Booze is my bag, let's get loaded," and he did not like that being in print . . . although HE ACTUALLY SAID IT. He didn't deny saying it, he just didn't like it. That's the Styx vs. the media mindset right there: "Don't report us fairly, report us positively." LOL. The question with this band is, "Which came first, the fact that writers don't like Styx, or the fact that Styx has historically dealt poorly with writers?"

Sterling

Are you talking about the 4 part article by Rick Kogan ?

As for Derek Sutton, I have a taped interview with him from 2 years ago. I'll have to find and review it to see if he mentions anything about publicity during his time.

Rick Kogan, yes, that's the one. Read it again, there's a part where JY says "Booze is my bag," and then they go to a strip club. JY felt really embarrassed by that appearing in print because his mom was a teetotaler.

Sterling

[SuiteMadameBlue]

You made a good point about the magazines that Styx DID work with - those types of "rags" that only offered mostly positive puff pieces, not real journalism. JY even got a little bit pissed at the guy who wrote that series of articles for the Chicago Sun-Times, which was by far the biggest piece of print exposure the band had gotten at that point, and it almost was entirely positive. But the guy quoted JY as saying, "Booze is my bag, let's get loaded," and he did not like that being in print . . . although HE ACTUALLY SAID IT. He didn't deny saying it, he just didn't like it. That's the Styx vs. the media mindset right there: "Don't report us fairly, report us positively." LOL. The question with this band is, "Which came first, the fact that writers don't like Styx, or the fact that Styx has historically dealt poorly with writers?"

Sterling

Are you talking about the 4 part article by Rick Kogan ?

As for Derek Sutton, I have a taped interview with him from 2 years ago. I'll have to find and review it to see if he mentions anything about publicity during his time.

Rick Kogan, yes, that's the one. Read it again, there's a part where JY says "Booze is my bag," and then they go to a strip club. JY felt really embarrassed by that appearing in print because his mom was a teetotaler.

Sterling

Yep, it's in there. I'm bored tonight. I posted all 4 parts

[SuiteMadameBlue]

I just posted one of the articles regarding Derek Sutton.