MR

Considering how some of us feel about today's state of the band, lineup and total lack of motivation to produce anything new... let's say Dennis was still in the band today. Hell, let's say even Glen was still in the band as well. If Styx's lineup was the same it was in 1999 and all they were was a novelty act that like today's version went around and played only the hits never offering anything new with the total belief that it was what the fans wanted. If that were the case would we still blast the band every chance we got and ridicule all their choices? In short, basically imagine the band had done all the exact same things since 1999, except Dennis and Glen were still members that never left. How would you feel about what they do?

yes most folks would still blast the band for not producing enough new music.

masque wrote:yes most folks would still blast the band for not producing enough new music.

Sadly, I agree. We'd also bash the record labels for not "promoting the band enough" if they DID have new music.

Journey has had FOUR new releases since 1999, and yet they're not exactly selling out arenas either - at least not on their own. Granted, Steve Perry isn't in the band.

Cinj

As much as I wish Dennis was still in the band, I believe the band would continue to tour on no new albums and we'd all be pretty bored with that as well. I'd still prefer it that way.

Styx have released 1 album of new material since the break up, compared to how many by DDY 2 ?, 3 ?, 4 ?, 5?

Baron Von Bielski wrote:Considering how some of us feel about today's state of the band, lineup and total lack of motivation to produce anything new... let's say Dennis was still in the band today. Hell, let's say even Glen was still in the band as well. If Styx's lineup was the same it was in 1999 and all they were was a novelty act that like today's version went around and played only the hits never offering anything new with the total belief that it was what the fans wanted. If that were the case would we still blast the band every chance we got and ridicule all their choices? In short, basically imagine the band had done all the exact same things since 1999, except Dennis and Glen were still members that never left. How would you feel about what they do?

If Dennis never left, we not have had Cyclorama, BBT, and maybe not even the CYO. In fact, I doubt there would be any new music at all...because Dennis was more interested in his solo stuff at that time, and the band was more interested in touring because that is the only way they made money. But, I doubt the tours would be as large or as often...causing EVERYBODY to think about more solo albums and tours, putting Styx very distant on the priority list for everybody involved.

cinj wrote:

masque wrote:yes most folks would still blast the band for not producing enough new music.

Sadly, I agree. We'd also bash the record labels for not "promoting the band enough" if they DID have new music.

Journey has had FOUR new releases since 1999, and yet they're not exactly selling out arenas either - at least not on their own. Granted, Steve Perry isn't in the band.

Cinj

Actually, judging by Bridgestone Arena in Nashville, Journey is doing pretty damn well at the whole Arena thing.

Baron Von Bielski wrote:Considering how some of us feel about today's state of the band, lineup and total lack of motivation to produce anything new... let's say Dennis was still in the band today. Hell, let's say even Glen was still in the band as well. If Styx's lineup was the same it was in 1999 and all they were was a novelty act that like today's version went around and played only the hits never offering anything new with the total belief that it was what the fans wanted. If that were the case would we still blast the band every chance we got and ridicule all their choices? In short, basically imagine the band had done all the exact same things since 1999, except Dennis and Glen were still members that never left. How would you feel about what they do?

I would still be critical for the lack of a new album of material and the merchandising choices. As for the touring, if they didn't mix things up I would get bored with that and most likely would be skipping chances to so them if it remained the same old same old.

There would have been at least two cds....Tommy and JY would bug him for that. They would tour, no wear near as much (which would be a good thing).

Ash wrote:

cinj wrote:

masque wrote:yes most folks would still blast the band for not producing enough new music.

Sadly, I agree. We'd also bash the record labels for not "promoting the band enough" if they DID have new music.

Journey has had FOUR new releases since 1999, and yet they're not exactly selling out arenas either - at least not on their own. Granted, Steve Perry isn't in the band.

Cinj

Actually, judging by Bridgestone Arena in Nashville, Journey is doing pretty damn well at the whole Arena thing.

i was at that show and it was a great crowd but in all fairness i'm not sure it would have been that packed without it being a "package" tour....journey was the clear headlner but including foreigner (one of the best sellers in the US) and night ranger a multi million seller in their own right doesnt hurt attendence.

masque wrote:

Ash wrote:

cinj wrote:

masque wrote:yes most folks would still blast the band for not producing enough new music.

Sadly, I agree. We'd also bash the record labels for not "promoting the band enough" if they DID have new music.

Journey has had FOUR new releases since 1999, and yet they're not exactly selling out arenas either - at least not on their own. Granted, Steve Perry isn't in the band.

Cinj

Actually, judging by Bridgestone Arena in Nashville, Journey is doing pretty damn well at the whole Arena thing.

i was at that show and it was a great crowd but in all fairness i'm not sure it would have been that packed without it being a "package" tour....journey was the clear headlner but including foreigner (one of the best sellers in the US) and night ranger a multi million seller in their own right doesnt hurt attendence.

NO classic rock artists are doing well without a package tour. There's a major recession going on. MANY folks are out of work. And time has moved on for these guys and their fans. It's surprising that these acts are touring at all and if they can put together an interesting package, that's cool. The drag is, you only hear the hits and nothing obscure. That will keep me home. Huge Journey fan here - Was psyched about their new album and then throughout their last tour, they played less and less of it live. My show was their last one and they'd dropped all their new stuff. Luckily, they played ONE new song on that last night of the tour. There was supposed to be a video filmed that night, but I never saw it. Still, no new music from these bands will keep me from buying a ticket. Especially Styx. There are a bazillion live albums and DVDs out there with the older live stuff. If you have that, why would you pay for the tickets to go see them play the same stuff with the same live arrangements that they've used since the 70s? Even for major fans, the old stuff gets old. Without new stuff or obscure tracks thrown in, it's no longer interesting. Diehards can predict what they will do during the songs and this includes stage moves, etc. because that really hasn't changed. Not a slam on the band at all, but for those that've gone to these shows over the years, it does get old seeing the same stuff. That's why the PO8/Grand Illusion thing was interesting. At least a few songs they'd not done live before.

It is about time to say good night to all these acts. Sad, but true.

All these fragmented bands need to reunite, for one last tour (unlike Kiss, Eagles,etc.), give the fans something to get excited about one more time, make enough money to comfortably retire and say enough is enough.

Then we can catch a few of them in new collaborations (mini supergroups) playing each others music when we visit Vegas...or something like that.

Monker wrote:If Dennis never left, we not have had Cyclorama, BBT, and maybe not even the CYO. In fact, I doubt there would be any new music at all...because Dennis was more interested in his solo stuff at that time, and the band was more interested in touring because that is the only way they made money. But, I doubt the tours would be as large or as often...causing EVERYBODY to think about more solo albums and tours, putting Styx very distant on the priority list for everybody involved.

I think we would have seen possibly one more studio album before they threw in the towel - like Cyclorama or 100 Years.

As for the CYO, remember Styx with DDY played with an orchestra back in 1996 in Atlanta. So a CYO-like project is totally plausible in the post-1999 years. In fact, I remember interviews post-1999 where the guys in Styx basically said DDY is off doing his symphonic thing and didn't want anything to do with that type of project. Yet we have CYO. That always made me chuckle. Not putting down the project as it had good energy; it just sounds like shit and it was mixed in a paper bag.

Even post-1999, Tommy's done two major solo projects (S/B Influence and Great Divide), so with or without DDY, it doesn't seem to have impacted that aspect of Tommy at all. You didn't see DDY or anyone else bitching about 7DZ which Tommy even did a brief tour for in '98 (not just Borders, but as an opening act down South).

Seems like doing stuff like the Ice Capades is an attempt to lure DDY back.

StyxCollector wrote:

Monker wrote:If Dennis never left, we not have had Cyclorama, BBT, and maybe not even the CYO. In fact, I doubt there would be any new music at all...because Dennis was more interested in his solo stuff at that time, and the band was more interested in touring because that is the only way they made money. But, I doubt the tours would be as large or as often...causing EVERYBODY to think about more solo albums and tours, putting Styx very distant on the priority list for everybody involved.

I think we would have seen possibly one more studio album before they threw in the towel - like Cyclorama or 100 Years.

As for the CYO, remember Styx with DDY played with an orchestra back in 1996 in Atlanta. So a CYO-like project is totally plausible in the post-1999 years. In fact, I remember interviews post-1999 where the guys in Styx basically said DDY is off doing his symphonic thing and didn't want anything to do with that type of project. Yet we have CYO. That always made me chuckle. Not putting down the project as it had good energy; it just sounds like shit and it was mixed in a paper bag.

Even post-1999, Tommy's done two major solo projects (S/B Influence and Great Divide), so with or without DDY, it doesn't seem to have impacted that aspect of Tommy at all. You didn't see DDY or anyone else bitching about 7DZ which Tommy even did a brief tour for in '98 (not just Borders, but as an opening act down South).

If you take the best 10-11 songs from Cyclorama and 100 Years, you'd have a hell of a Styx album with arguably no filler at all. You'd have a mix of harder and lighter songs like a traditional Styx album (some I included like Yes I Can and I Believe in You since the former they did a video and the latter still gets airplay on XM Blend meaning it has some commercial viability. Tell me this wouldn't be a heck of an album.

This Time Next Year
Waiting For Our Time
Rain
Yes I Can
Kiss Your Ass Goodbye
Crossing The Rubicon
Do Things My Way
Save Me
These Are The Times
I Believe In You
One With Everything

hoagiepete wrote:Seems like doing stuff like the Ice Capades is an attempt to lure DDY back.

Not a sides thing, but if 10 years ago DDY did something like that people would use it as evidence to say, "Look, JY's right! DDY doesn't rock." Again, I have no issue with it whether it was Styx or DDY. It's promotion. Amazing how the passing of time changes perception.

brywool wrote:

masque wrote:

Ash wrote:

cinj wrote:

masque wrote:yes most folks would still blast the band for not producing enough new music.

Sadly, I agree. We'd also bash the record labels for not "promoting the band enough" if they DID have new music.

Journey has had FOUR new releases since 1999, and yet they're not exactly selling out arenas either - at least not on their own. Granted, Steve Perry isn't in the band.

Cinj

Actually, judging by Bridgestone Arena in Nashville, Journey is doing pretty damn well at the whole Arena thing.

i was at that show and it was a great crowd but in all fairness i'm not sure it would have been that packed without it being a "package" tour....journey was the clear headlner but including foreigner (one of the best sellers in the US) and night ranger a multi million seller in their own right doesnt hurt attendence.

NO classic rock artists are doing well without a package tour. There's a major recession going on. MANY folks are out of work. And time has moved on for these guys and their fans. It's surprising that these acts are touring at all and if they can put together an interesting package, that's cool. The drag is, you only hear the hits and nothing obscure. That will keep me home. Huge Journey fan here - Was psyched about their new album and then throughout their last tour, they played less and less of it live. My show was their last one and they'd dropped all their new stuff. Luckily, they played ONE new song on that last night of the tour. There was supposed to be a video filmed that night, but I never saw it. Still, no new music from these bands will keep me from buying a ticket. Especially Styx. There are a bazillion live albums and DVDs out there with the older live stuff. If you have that, why would you pay for the tickets to go see them play the same stuff with the same live arrangements that they've used since the 70s? Even for major fans, the old stuff gets old. Without new stuff or obscure tracks thrown in, it's no longer interesting. Diehards can predict what they will do during the songs and this includes stage moves, etc. because that really hasn't changed. Not a slam on the band at all, but for those that've gone to these shows over the years, it does get old seeing the same stuff. That's why the PO8/Grand Illusion thing was interesting. At least a few songs they'd not done live before.

McCartney, Clapton, Waters, Tom Petty.

Not sure anything would be the same, but for argument's sake, the lack of new music would lose peoples' interest after awhile, and the usual suspects would still find something to complain about.

StyxCollector wrote:

hoagiepete wrote:Seems like doing stuff like the Ice Capades is an attempt to lure DDY back.

Not a sides thing, but if 10 years ago DDY did something like that people would use it as evidence to say, "Look, JY's right! DDY doesn't rock." Again, I have no issue with it whether it was Styx or DDY. It's promotion. Amazing how the passing of time changes perception.

But, those actually watched it, it was NOTHING like "Icecapades"....it was basically a Styx concert that happened to have some ice skaters doing their thing.

Monker wrote:

StyxCollector wrote:

hoagiepete wrote:Seems like doing stuff like the Ice Capades is an attempt to lure DDY back.

Not a sides thing, but if 10 years ago DDY did something like that people would use it as evidence to say, "Look, JY's right! DDY doesn't rock." Again, I have no issue with it whether it was Styx or DDY. It's promotion. Amazing how the passing of time changes perception.

But, those actually watched it, it was NOTHING like "Icecapades"....it was basically a Styx concert that happened to have some ice skaters doing their thing.

I watched some of it. I went in thinking it was going to be a complete embarrassment. It came off better than I thought it would, although, I still thought it just a little weird. I mean, I'm now less inclined to go out of my way to admit out loud that Styx was one of my favorite bands growing up, to have someone turn around and say, "Is that the hack 70's band that played for a bunch of goofy washed up has-been ice skaters?". Anyway, the little I saw, they didn't sound too bad. I only saw a few, and they were all TS songs. Did Gowan get to mangle anything?

I wonder what the ratings were like, especially since there was a football game on.

Monker wrote:But, those actually watched it, it was NOTHING like "Icecapades"....it was basically a Styx concert that happened to have some ice skaters doing their thing.

I never called it Ice Capades.

I did watch part of it (DVR'd it). It was ... odd. No matter how you slice and dice it, it wasn't the most "rock" thing to do. Just sayin' The Styx of 2001 would have never done it. The Styx of 2011, yes.

StyxCollector wrote:

Monker wrote:But, those actually watched it, it was NOTHING like "Icecapades"....it was basically a Styx concert that happened to have some ice skaters doing their thing.

I never called it Ice Capades.

I did watch part of it (DVR'd it). It was ... odd. No matter how you slice and dice it, it wasn't the most "rock" thing to do. Just sayin' The Styx of 2001 would have never done it. The Styx of 2011, yes.

And if it was Dennis with his band doing this people would be all over it saying how this just shows his heart isn't in doing Rock N' Roll anymore. I wouldn't be surprised hearing JY use it as a yet another slam on Dennis.

I called it the Ice Capades. That is EXACTLY what it was.

Years ago a 'Pre owned' car was called a 'Used Car'

Same damn thing.

Styx played the Ice Capades!!

Boomchild wrote:And if it was Dennis with his band doing this people would be all over it saying how this just shows his heart isn't in doing Rock N' Roll anymore.

I basically said it already. Like I said, the Styx of 2001 would have laughed at this opportunity. The Styx of 2011, nope. And I don't care if they did since I've seen both DDY and Styx plenty of times, but they've softened their attitude on a lot of things over the years.

StyxCollector wrote:

Boomchild wrote:And if it was Dennis with his band doing this people would be all over it saying how this just shows his heart isn't in doing Rock N' Roll anymore.

I basically said it already. Like I said, the Styx of 2001 would have laughed at this opportunity. The Styx of 2011, nope. And I don't care if they did since I've seen both DDY and Styx plenty of times, but they've softened their attitude on a lot of things over the years.

Well said... and true.

StyxCollector wrote:

Boomchild wrote:And if it was Dennis with his band doing this people would be all over it saying how this just shows his heart isn't in doing Rock N' Roll anymore.

I basically said it already. Like I said, the Styx of 2001 would have laughed at this opportunity. The Styx of 2011, nope. And I don't care if they did since I've seen both DDY and Styx plenty of times, but they've softened their attitude on a lot of things over the years.

There has always been the hypocrissy though - especially around the ballad thing (see "Yes I Can", "Just Be" et al).

hoagiepete wrote:Seems like doing stuff like the Ice Capades is an attempt to lure DDY back.

No need to lure Dennis back. All they'd have to do is pick up the phone and call him. He'd go back. That's what he wants; Tommy/JY don't want it.

Archetype wrote:

hoagiepete wrote:Seems like doing stuff like the Ice Capades is an attempt to lure DDY back.

No need to lure Dennis back. All they'd have to do is pick up the phone and call him. He'd go back. That's what he wants; Tommy/JY don't want it.

He says that, but I don't think it'd be that easy for any of them. Imagine if you were Dennis and (for whatever reason) you were kicked out of your own band.
There's a lotta anger there on both sides. Even if JY/Tommy/and co said "Hey Dennis, we were wrong" or "Lawrence is just too much of a chick magnet for the rest of us", "Would you come back please?" I DOUBT it'd happen. If both sides were smart, they'd stay where they are now. Right now, everybody gets to do what they want. With Dennis in there, it will be a compromise for Dennis and it will be a compromise for Styx.

I think the one chance they have to reunite is if Lawrence says "Enough, I want to get back to my own solo career". Even then, I don't think it'd happen. Too much has been said by Styx about how they'd "never" do that, etc.

gr8whitehope wrote:

brywool wrote:NO classic rock artists are doing well without a package tour. .

McCartney, Clapton, Waters, Tom Petty.

Van Halen, Rush, KISS, Aerosmith, Springsteen

Monker wrote:, it was NOTHING like "Icecapades"....it was basically a Styx concert that happened to have some ice skaters doing their thing.

I was hoping to see Tonya Harding skating to Witch Wolf.