MR

Amazed that Don't Stop Believin' has had such longevity for Journey. Awesome song, don't get me wrong, but because a much bigger hit 15+ years after it was released than it ever was in its heyday. Recall, it peaked at #9 in 1981. Solid single, but it wasn't like it was number one for weeks on it. Right now, it is still #3 on the iTunes downloads. Not #3 in rock - #3 OVERALL.

So, how come that never happened to Styx? Was this just the case of Journey catching lightning in a bottle or is there something more to it? Why couldn't a CSA or Renegade ever manage to do the same thing? Its an interesting case study that I'm sure many artists in that genre would love to emulate. But not sure how to replicate it.....

It would take someone far more analytical than I to figure that out....and I am floored that "Don't Stop" hit only #9. It was played endlessly on radio in my area back in the day. In fact, I am quite flabbergasted that it has hit so hard yet again. I'm sure Journey has Glee to thank for that. Plus, the message of the song is uplifting, and considering all that has gone on with the country the last few years, people need all the positivity they can get.

Cassie May wrote:It would take someone far more analytical than I to figure that out....and I am floored that "Don't Stop" hit only #9. It was played endlessly on radio in my area back in the day. In fact, I am quite flabbergasted that it has hit so hard yet again. I'm sure Journey has Glee to thank for that. Plus, the message of the song is uplifting, and considering all that has gone on with the country the last few years, people need all the positivity they can get.

First of all, Styx could have had the same type of success with CSA...for the same reasons you mention above.

There are a few differences between the two bands, and I think Toph knows and just wants to start more trolling.

Journey and Steve Perry have never been in each others way. You do not see a Journey DVD without DSB or "Lovin Touchin Squeezin" (written only by Perry). Steve Perry was "wronged" just as bad as DDY but he never interfered with the bands business. And, Journey has let Perry take over the promotions of their old catalog. Journey (Neal and Jonathan) still have input, but Perry is the one who is free to take those projects...remastering the old catalog, releasing old video on DVD, etc. Journey is on many soundtracks, TV shows, and movies, dating all the way back to Monster, and remasters with bonus tracks, and live DVD's, etc...these are all things Perry used to NOT approve of...for whatever reason, he no longer vetoes them.

IMO, what Journey and Perry realize is all of this helps both sides of the equation. Touring and new live DVD/CD's help sell the old catalog, promoting the old catalog helps sell tickets to the tours.

Styx and DDY do not work this way. Styx releases DVD's and have to exclude DDY songs. I doubt DDY will ever release a DVD from his current band, at least not including Tommy's song, unless Tommy feels the need for royalty $'s. There is way too much fighting for legitimacy...who really "is" Styx. So, they compete with each other instead of staying out of each others way.

Styx was doing well with CSA before the split, and the Roboto commercial. So, there was interest there, but they failed to build on it, and capitalize on it, in the way Journey did. Most DDY fans here said the Po8/GI DVD would never be released because DDY would not allow it. Well, it did happen so maybe there is a bit of a change in attitude going on...but, it's probably too late.

Also, it seems Sony is much more supportive of Journey's catalog then Styx' label (Universal?). But, I don't know if that is a general non-interest in Styx, or just staying away from a feuding band. Whatever the case, Journey's catalog has been been remastered several times and re released, along with DVD's of old concerts and MTV videos. None of that happened for Styx.

Monker wrote:

Cassie May wrote:It would take someone far more analytical than I to figure that out....and I am floored that "Don't Stop" hit only #9. It was played endlessly on radio in my area back in the day. In fact, I am quite flabbergasted that it has hit so hard yet again. I'm sure Journey has Glee to thank for that. Plus, the message of the song is uplifting, and considering all that has gone on with the country the last few years, people need all the positivity they can get.

.

There are a few differences between the two bands, and I think Toph knows and just wants to start more trolling.

[quote]

Monker, I pity you. I was just bringing up a topic.

DSB - a song about two all-American kids (a small town girl and a city boy) trying to find themselves with a chorus about not giving up/following your dreams, etc.

CSA - a song about aliens (initially mistaken for angels) persuading someone to get on their space ship

Hmm...it's a mystery why CSA didn't resonate across generations, isn't it?

i think toph's question is a very fair question....here's what I think.

DSB happened to be "reinjected" into today's pop culture with a couple of very powerful momentum changers in the form of glee and the finale of soprano's.

DSB is a song that has lots of energy right from the get go and builds up thru the chorus and when the guitar solo takes off it continues to soar wheras CSA has a couple of minutes of the verses seeming very much like a ballad.....and yes, i know that DSB doesnt kick in for awhile but it's quieter parts simply have more energy......doesnt mean it's better its just what it is.

Journey at it's peak was a little more popular overall than Styx at it's peak.....I know that styx had the 4 consecutive triple platinum albums etc....but journey's popularity with escape and frontiers was absolutely over the top and probably made a bit more of a lasting impression along with the fact that they continued to be a band and released singles up thru around 1986 or 87 with raised on radio whereas styx essentially ceased to exist past kilroy as far as the public eye goes.


I also believe that DSB has achieved nearly unparalleled success outside of a few tracks such as we will rock you/we are the champions when compared to their peers. styx has nothing to be ashamed of with CSA being in south park and other songs being on commercials and movies and renegade being played at football stadiums every week and even being adopted as the theme song for the steelers. that's all fantastic and a real testament to the quality of their songs and the case could be made that they have made more of an impact with more of their songs than other bands including journey could claim. but DSB i think really benefits from being a fantastic song with one of the best singers of all time and being at the right place at the right time.

to answer your basic question.......styx has certainly had "post peak" success with their old catalog being in today's pop culture in a very significant way but to a lesser degree than DSB for journey. but when i think about this Queen is probably the only band to have more of a strong hold on today's pop culture with old songs than anybody, with journey probably second due mostly to DSB and honestly outside of that I think an argument could be made for styx to finish about third in that race or certainly in the top five and for my money that's a pretty prestigious place to be.

masque wrote:i think toph's question is a very fair question....here's what I think.

DSB happened to be "reinjected" into today's pop culture with a couple of very powerful momentum changers in the form of glee and the finale of soprano's.

DSB is a song that has lots of energy right from the get go and builds up thru the chorus and when the guitar solo takes off it continues to soar wheras CSA has a couple of minutes of the verses seeming very much like a ballad.....and yes, i know that DSB doesnt kick in for awhile but it's quieter parts simply have more energy......doesnt mean it's better its just what it is.

Journey at it's peak was a little more popular overall than Styx at it's peak.....I know that styx had the 4 consecutive triple platinum albums etc....but journey's popularity with escape and frontiers was absolutely over the top and probably made a bit more of a lasting impression along with the fact that they continued to be a band and released singles up thru around 1986 or 87 with raised on radio whereas styx essentially ceased to exist past kilroy as far as the public eye goes.


I also believe that DSB has achieved nearly unparalleled success outside of a few tracks such as we will rock you/we are the champions when compared to their peers. styx has nothing to be ashamed of with CSA being in south park and other songs being on commercials and movies and renegade being played at football stadiums every week and even being adopted as the theme song for the steelers. that's all fantastic and a real testament to the quality of their songs and the case could be made that they have made more of an impact with more of their songs than other bands including journey could claim. but DSB i think really benefits from being a fantastic song with one of the best singers of all time and being at the right place at the right time.

to answer your basic question.......styx has certainly had "post peak" success with their old catalog being in today's pop culture in a very significant way but to a lesser degree than DSB for journey. but when i think about this Queen is probably the only band to have more of a strong hold on today's pop culture with old songs than anybody, with journey probably second due mostly to DSB and honestly outside of that I think an argument could be made for styx to finish about third in that race or certainly in the top five and for my money that's a pretty prestigious place to be.

Don't forget also when the Chicago White Sox won the World Series, I can't stand that damn song anymore

masque wrote:i think toph's question is a very fair question....here's what I think.

You must have forgotten toph's specialty was always asking questions in a certain way.
Question that would eventually lead to Dennis being the ultimate Styx member and responsible for all things good
,or making Tommy,JY,Gowan ,the Panozzos or Todd the reason for things being bad.

So in this case it was of course the latter.

gr8dane wrote:

masque wrote:i think toph's question is a very fair question....here's what I think.

You must have forgotten toph's specialty was always asking questions in a certain way.
Question that would eventually lead to Dennis being the ultimate Styx member and responsible for all things good
,or making Tommy,JY,Gowan ,the Panozzos or Todd the reason for things being bad.

So in this case it was of course the latter.

i'm well aware of "toph's MO"....i was just giving him the benefit of the doubt because honestly I could discuss true styx related topics constantly.......favorite albums, songs, haidos etc...... so to finally "try" to have a topic that doesnt turn nasty around here and actually discuss something I thought would be a refreshing change.

gr8dane wrote:

masque wrote:i think toph's question is a very fair question....here's what I think.

You must have forgotten toph's specialty was always asking questions in a certain way.
Question that would eventually lead to Dennis being the ultimate Styx member and responsible for all things good
,or making Tommy,JY,Gowan ,the Panozzos or Todd the reason for things being bad.

So in this case it was of course the latter.

had nothing to do with the dennis situation.

Thought I would check in for this one.

My thoughts.

One. Styx never really had that "perfect" kind of song that would be appropriate in multiple situations. "Don't Stop Believing'" is one that can/could be used in so many types of scenarios.

Two. Styx never had, nor will they ever have, the respect given to Journey. On all levels. Journey is looked upon more favorably by "the industry" types, has a bigger fan base, and I think Steve Perry gets far more positive responses to his vocals than anyone in Styx, then or now, including DDY.

Styx is, despite the people who do love them, more likely to be sneered at and made fun of than Journey. That would translate to the choices made regarding using their music. IMO.


Bugsy

My thinking on this VERY Good topic Poth brings up is, that if Tony Soprano would have had another quarter he would have also chosen the song 'Come Sail Away', along with 'Dont Stop Believin'. The letter C comes before D, so as Medow attempted to parallel park her car while Tony, AJ and Carmela devoured their onion rings, 'Come Sail Away' would have been blarring over the juke box speakers. Then, as the words 'a gathering of angels appeared above my head' rang out...... the screen would have faded to black and all us Soprano fans would of concluded that Tony & his entire family minus Medow got whacked.

Hence Poth's 'assembly line' would now read in the Journey section ' Why Did Journey Never Have Their Come Sail Away Moment'?

Its all about fate, revenge, and quarters!!!!

bugsymalone wrote:Thought I would check in for this one.

My thoughts.

One. Styx never really had that "perfect" kind of song that would be appropriate in multiple situations. "Don't Stop Believing'" is one that can/could be used in so many types of scenarios.

Two. Styx never had, nor will they ever have, the respect given to Journey. On all levels. Journey is looked upon more favorably by "the industry" types, has a bigger fan base, and I think Steve Perry gets far more positive responses to his vocals than anyone in Styx, then or now, including DDY.

Styx is, despite the people who do love them, more likely to be sneered at and made fun of than Journey. That would translate to the choices made regarding using their music. IMO.


Bugsy

The closest I think Styx ever came to that was Show Me The Way. I think your right about that the industry and critics had a more positive view Journey then they did of Styx.

gr8dane wrote:

masque wrote:i think toph's question is a very fair question....here's what I think.

You must have forgotten toph's specialty was always asking questions in a certain way.
Question that would eventually lead to Dennis being the ultimate Styx member and responsible for all things good
,or making Tommy,JY,Gowan ,the Panozzos or Todd the reason for things being bad.

So in this case it was of course the latter.

You are really good at being a moron.

Baron Von Bielski wrote:

gr8dane wrote:

masque wrote:i think toph's question is a very fair question....here's what I think.

You must have forgotten toph's specialty was always asking questions in a certain way.
Question that would eventually lead to Dennis being the ultimate Styx member and responsible for all things good
,or making Tommy,JY,Gowan ,the Panozzos or Todd the reason for things being bad.

So in this case it was of course the latter.

You are really good at being a moron.

Well, Toph is really good at being a troll, LOL.

Baron Von Bielski wrote:

gr8dane wrote:

masque wrote:i think toph's question is a very fair question....here's what I think.

You must have forgotten toph's specialty was always asking questions in a certain way.
Question that would eventually lead to Dennis being the ultimate Styx member and responsible for all things good
,or making Tommy,JY,Gowan ,the Panozzos or Todd the reason for things being bad.

So in this case it was of course the latter.

You are really good at being a moron.

Thank you.
Did you have time to read the 8 lines by Todd on page 294 in Sterling's book yet?

gr8dane wrote:

Baron Von Bielski wrote:

gr8dane wrote:

masque wrote:i think toph's question is a very fair question....here's what I think.

You must have forgotten toph's specialty was always asking questions in a certain way.
Question that would eventually lead to Dennis being the ultimate Styx member and responsible for all things good
,or making Tommy,JY,Gowan ,the Panozzos or Todd the reason for things being bad.

So in this case it was of course the latter.

You are really good at being a moron.

Thank you.
Did you have time to read the 8 lines by Todd on page 294 in Sterling's book yet?

Refresh my memory.

gr8dane wrote:

Baron Von Bielski wrote:

gr8dane wrote:

masque wrote:i think toph's question is a very fair question....here's what I think.

You must have forgotten toph's specialty was always asking questions in a certain way.
Question that would eventually lead to Dennis being the ultimate Styx member and responsible for all things good
,or making Tommy,JY,Gowan ,the Panozzos or Todd the reason for things being bad.

So in this case it was of course the latter.

You are really good at being a moron.

Thank you.
Did you have time to read the 8 lines by Todd on page 294 in Sterling's book yet?

Is that where Todd talks about Dennis "green lighting" him to join Styx and has allowed him to enjoy a lengthy successful drumming career?

Boomchild wrote:

gr8dane wrote:

Baron Von Bielski wrote:

gr8dane wrote:

masque wrote:i think toph's question is a very fair question....here's what I think.

You must have forgotten toph's specialty was always asking questions in a certain way.
Question that would eventually lead to Dennis being the ultimate Styx member and responsible for all things good
,or making Tommy,JY,Gowan ,the Panozzos or Todd the reason for things being bad.

So in this case it was of course the latter.

You are really good at being a moron.

Thank you.
Did you have time to read the 8 lines by Todd on page 294 in Sterling's book yet?

Is that where Todd talks about Dennis "green lighting" him to join Styx and has allowed him to enjoy a lengthy successful drumming career?

No,but close.

Baron Von Bielski wrote:

gr8dane wrote:

Baron Von Bielski wrote:

gr8dane wrote:

masque wrote:i think toph's question is a very fair question....here's what I think.

You must have forgotten toph's specialty was always asking questions in a certain way.
Question that would eventually lead to Dennis being the ultimate Styx member and responsible for all things good
,or making Tommy,JY,Gowan ,the Panozzos or Todd the reason for things being bad.

So in this case it was of course the latter.

You are really good at being a moron.

Thank you.
Did you have time to read the 8 lines by Todd on page 294 in Sterling's book yet?

Refresh my memory.

Oh.I thought you had the book?
Well,it's basically where Dennis is talking himself into getting fired from Styx.
Todd is in a room with Tommy and Dennis.Dennis is constantly shutting Tommy down,and he has the look on his face that tells Todd,
that it is the last time D will be talking to him like that.Sure enough Dennis got the boot.Good ole Dennis.And the rest is history.
Refreshed?

gr8dane wrote:

Baron Von Bielski wrote:

gr8dane wrote:

Baron Von Bielski wrote:

gr8dane wrote:

masque wrote:i think toph's question is a very fair question....here's what I think.

You must have forgotten toph's specialty was always asking questions in a certain way.
Question that would eventually lead to Dennis being the ultimate Styx member and responsible for all things good
,or making Tommy,JY,Gowan ,the Panozzos or Todd the reason for things being bad.

So in this case it was of course the latter.

You are really good at being a moron.

Thank you.
Did you have time to read the 8 lines by Todd on page 294 in Sterling's book yet?

Refresh my memory.

Oh.I thought you had the book?
Well,it's basically where Dennis is talking himself into getting fired from Styx.
Todd is in a room with Tommy and Dennis.Dennis is constantly shutting Tommy down,and he has the look on his face that tells Todd,
that it is the last time D will be talking to him like that.Sure enough Dennis got the boot.Good ole Dennis.And the rest is history.
Refreshed?

Always great when you have one side of the story isn't it?

I don't know if this would have any impact in it, but does anyone think that with Styx having 3 guys who sing lead vocals as opposed to 1 guy might have been a slight hinderance on their part.

Boomchild wrote:

gr8dane wrote:

Baron Von Bielski wrote:

gr8dane wrote:

Baron Von Bielski wrote:

gr8dane wrote:

masque wrote:i think toph's question is a very fair question....here's what I think.

You must have forgotten toph's specialty was always asking questions in a certain way.
Question that would eventually lead to Dennis being the ultimate Styx member and responsible for all things good
,or making Tommy,JY,Gowan ,the Panozzos or Todd the reason for things being bad.

So in this case it was of course the latter.

You are really good at being a moron.

Thank you.
Did you have time to read the 8 lines by Todd on page 294 in Sterling's book yet?

Refresh my memory.

Oh.I thought you had the book?
Well,it's basically where Dennis is talking himself into getting fired from Styx.
Todd is in a room with Tommy and Dennis.Dennis is constantly shutting Tommy down,and he has the look on his face that tells Todd,
that it is the last time D will be talking to him like that.Sure enough Dennis got the boot.Good ole Dennis.And the rest is history.
Refreshed?

Always great when you have one side of the story isn't it?

I know how you feel.It couldn't possibly be true.

gr8dane wrote:

Baron Von Bielski wrote:

gr8dane wrote:

Baron Von Bielski wrote:

gr8dane wrote:

masque wrote:i think toph's question is a very fair question....here's what I think.

You must have forgotten toph's specialty was always asking questions in a certain way.
Question that would eventually lead to Dennis being the ultimate Styx member and responsible for all things good
,or making Tommy,JY,Gowan ,the Panozzos or Todd the reason for things being bad.

So in this case it was of course the latter.

You are really good at being a moron.

Thank you.
Did you have time to read the 8 lines by Todd on page 294 in Sterling's book yet?

Refresh my memory.

Oh.I thought you had the book?
Well,it's basically where Dennis is talking himself into getting fired from Styx.
Todd is in a room with Tommy and Dennis.Dennis is constantly shutting Tommy down,and he has the look on his face that tells Todd,
that it is the last time D will be talking to him like that.Sure enough Dennis got the boot.Good ole Dennis.And the rest is history.
Refreshed?

I do have the book, you remember it right... I just wanted a refresher on why I needed to read that page. I'm extremely forgetful.

jestor92 wrote:I don't know if this would have any impact in it, but does anyone think that with Styx having 3 guys who sing lead vocals as opposed to 1 guy might have been a slight hinderance on their part.

It certainly is now.

gr8dane wrote:

Boomchild wrote:

gr8dane wrote:

Baron Von Bielski wrote:

gr8dane wrote:

Baron Von Bielski wrote:

gr8dane wrote:

masque wrote:i think toph's question is a very fair question....here's what I think.

You must have forgotten toph's specialty was always asking questions in a certain way.
Question that would eventually lead to Dennis being the ultimate Styx member and responsible for all things good
,or making Tommy,JY,Gowan ,the Panozzos or Todd the reason for things being bad.

So in this case it was of course the latter.

You are really good at being a moron.

Thank you.
Did you have time to read the 8 lines by Todd on page 294 in Sterling's book yet?

Refresh my memory.

Oh.I thought you had the book?
Well,it's basically where Dennis is talking himself into getting fired from Styx.
Todd is in a room with Tommy and Dennis.Dennis is constantly shutting Tommy down,and he has the look on his face that tells Todd,
that it is the last time D will be talking to him like that.Sure enough Dennis got the boot.Good ole Dennis.And the rest is history.
Refreshed?

Always great when you have one side of the story isn't it?

I know how you feel.It couldn't possibly be true.

I'm sure what Todd observed happened. But, Todd may not know what led up to that situation or anything else regarding the matter. While Sterling;s book was well put together and a quite interesting read, it has it's holes or flaws. Like the fact JY and DDY where not interviewed for it. Sorry, but I just don't take for granted comments by a guy who had been in the band for a very short period of time and most likely had little if anything to do with the inner workings of the band.

Boomchild wrote:

gr8dane wrote:

Boomchild wrote:

gr8dane wrote:

Baron Von Bielski wrote:

gr8dane wrote:

Baron Von Bielski wrote:

gr8dane wrote:

masque wrote:i think toph's question is a very fair question....here's what I think.

You must have forgotten toph's specialty was always asking questions in a certain way.
Question that would eventually lead to Dennis being the ultimate Styx member and responsible for all things good
,or making Tommy,JY,Gowan ,the Panozzos or Todd the reason for things being bad.

So in this case it was of course the latter.

You are really good at being a moron.

Thank you.
Did you have time to read the 8 lines by Todd on page 294 in Sterling's book yet?

Refresh my memory.

Oh.I thought you had the book?
Well,it's basically where Dennis is talking himself into getting fired from Styx.
Todd is in a room with Tommy and Dennis.Dennis is constantly shutting Tommy down,and he has the look on his face that tells Todd,
that it is the last time D will be talking to him like that.Sure enough Dennis got the boot.Good ole Dennis.And the rest is history.
Refreshed?

Always great when you have one side of the story isn't it?

I know how you feel.It couldn't possibly be true.

I'm sure what Todd observed happened. But, Todd may not know what led up to that situation or anything else regarding the matter. While Sterling;s book was well put together and a quite interesting read, it has it's holes or flaws. Like the fact JY and DDY where not interviewed for it. Sorry, but I just don't take for granted comments by a guy who had been in the band for a very short period of time and most likely had little if anything to do with the inner workings of the band.

One rhetorical question to ask about Todd's allegiances - who is signing his paycheck?

bugsymalone wrote:Thought I would check in for this one.

My thoughts.

One. Styx never really had that "perfect" kind of song that would be appropriate in multiple situations. "Don't Stop Believing'" is one that can/could be used in so many types of scenarios.

Two. Styx never had, nor will they ever have, the respect given to Journey. On all levels. Journey is looked upon more favorably by "the industry" types, has a bigger fan base, and I think Steve Perry gets far more positive responses to his vocals than anyone in Styx, then or now, including DDY.

Styx is, despite the people who do love them, more likely to be sneered at and made fun of than Journey. That would translate to the choices made regarding using their music. IMO.


Bugsy

I never remember Journey being looked upon good by the critics...Rolling Stone hated them. Alway thought Styx and Journey were in the same boat.

Toph wrote:

Boomchild wrote:

gr8dane wrote:

Boomchild wrote:

gr8dane wrote:

Baron Von Bielski wrote:

gr8dane wrote:

Baron Von Bielski wrote:

gr8dane wrote:

masque wrote:i think toph's question is a very fair question....here's what I think.

You must have forgotten toph's specialty was always asking questions in a certain way.
Question that would eventually lead to Dennis being the ultimate Styx member and responsible for all things good
,or making Tommy,JY,Gowan ,the Panozzos or Todd the reason for things being bad.

So in this case it was of course the latter.

You are really good at being a moron.

Thank you.
Did you have time to read the 8 lines by Todd on page 294 in Sterling's book yet?

Refresh my memory.

Oh.I thought you had the book?
Well,it's basically where Dennis is talking himself into getting fired from Styx.
Todd is in a room with Tommy and Dennis.Dennis is constantly shutting Tommy down,and he has the look on his face that tells Todd,
that it is the last time D will be talking to him like that.Sure enough Dennis got the boot.Good ole Dennis.And the rest is history.
Refreshed?

Always great when you have one side of the story isn't it?

I know how you feel.It couldn't possibly be true.

I'm sure what Todd observed happened. But, Todd may not know what led up to that situation or anything else regarding the matter. While Sterling;s book was well put together and a quite interesting read, it has it's holes or flaws. Like the fact JY and DDY where not interviewed for it. Sorry, but I just don't take for granted comments by a guy who had been in the band for a very short period of time and most likely had little if anything to do with the inner workings of the band.

One rhetorical question to ask about Todd's allegiances - who is signing his paycheck?

Well that could or could not play into Todd's perception. I just don't fall into the assumption that in this situation Dennis is "the bad guy" and Tommy is the "innocent guy" since there is no background on what led up to that conversation they had.