Dennis's thoughts on...

[Toph]

He has a lot of love for this tune of Edge...from his website...

I love this recording. Great groove and a killer clarinet solo by John Negus. Best clarinet solo on a rock record ever. Of course there aren't that many. And cool video. - ddy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of6JVn8i934

[Boomchild]

I do like the song. Dennis does seem to have a lot of love for his hometown.

[brywool]

I prefer the Earl of Roseland. This one seems a little Big Band to me. I don't hate it, just doesn't sound like a Styx tune.

[Everett]

I dig this tune as well. But i say back to milwaukee
Also when dennis says "let's watch the sun come up on lakeshore drive" I say water street

[Toph]

Bry -

I would argue that BTC is a natural progression of where Styx was headed with tunes like Why Me, Nothing Ever Goes As Planned, Lonely People, Double Life, and High Time. From Cornerstone on, they started employing a lot more horns and big band sound in their music. This was takes it up all the way. My biggest complaint about the song is that there are no Stygian harmonies - so in that regard it is more like a DDY solo song. Not sure why he didn't have Glen and JY harmonize on the chorus.

[Boomchild]

Bry -

I would argue that BTC is a natural progression of where Styx was headed with tunes like Why Me, Nothing Ever Goes As Planned, Lonely People, Double Life, and High Time. From Cornerstone on, they started employing a lot more horns and big band sound in their music. This was takes it up all the way. My biggest complaint about the song is that there are no Stygian harmonies - so in that regard it is more like a DDY solo song. Not sure why he didn't have Glen and JY harmonize on the chorus.

Most likely JY had his team of lawyers send Dennis a letter telling him he wouldn't because it wasn't a hard rock tune.

[brywool]

Bry -

I would argue that BTC is a natural progression of where Styx was headed with tunes like Why Me, Nothing Ever Goes As Planned, Lonely People, Double Life, and High Time. From Cornerstone on, they started employing a lot more horns and big band sound in their music. This was takes it up all the way. My biggest complaint about the song is that there are no Stygian harmonies - so in that regard it is more like a DDY solo song. Not sure why he didn't have Glen and JY harmonize on the chorus.

yeah.... see, that was the Dennis stuff I didn't appreciate (Why Me and Lonely People being exceptions). Styx just isn't a horn band to me. More like a DDY solo tune- yup. Stuff like "Nothing Ever Goes as Planned" just didn't do anything for me and were the things Dennis was doing that I didn't really dig. That song was the low point of PT for me and I usually skip it when listening to that album.

[yogi]

Hated the horn stuff. They were not nor never should have been Chicago. To bring in outside help for a band of great musicians made little or no sense to me. Wish the band would have stayed the path of Equinox, The Grand Illusion & Pieces Of Eight.

It is what it was.

[Toph]

Different strokes for different folks. I love the horn stuff. If they had done pieces of 8 again then they would have seen there career end much sooner. Kansas is the great example. Done after Point of Know Return because they didn't evolve. Paradise Theater is Styx's best album and had an updated sound. I credit them for not staying stuck in one genre and exploring different things. In many case it worked.

[Boomchild]

Bry -

I would argue that BTC is a natural progression of where Styx was headed with tunes like Why Me, Nothing Ever Goes As Planned, Lonely People, Double Life, and High Time. From Cornerstone on, they started employing a lot more horns and big band sound in their music. This was takes it up all the way. My biggest complaint about the song is that there are no Stygian harmonies - so in that regard it is more like a DDY solo song. Not sure why he didn't have Glen and JY harmonize on the chorus.

yeah.... see, that was the Dennis stuff I didn't appreciate (Why Me and Lonely People being exceptions). Styx just isn't a horn band to me. More like a DDY solo tune- yup. Stuff like "Nothing Ever Goes as Planned" just didn't do anything for me and were the things Dennis was doing that I didn't really dig. That song was the low point of PT for me and I usually skip it when listening to that album.

Your right they weren't a horn band. They also weren't just a hard rock band or a soft\pop rock band or a prog band either. They were a combination of all these styles and more. It was their different individual influences on each other that created diversity in the music they made. It's what made them different from other bands and I think better.

[Boomchild]

Hated the horn stuff. They were not nor never should have been Chicago. To bring in outside help for a band of great musicians made little or no sense to me. Wish the band would have stayed the path of Equinox, The Grand Illusion & Pieces Of Eight.

It is what it was.

As far as the horn stuff, it's not like they switched to horns being a part of every song. Also, if they would have stayed on the path of the style of the albums you mentioned, people would have lost interest and dismissed them after lets say '79. AOR was dying out. In order to stay in the game they had to change things up. Dennis saw that and I think that JY and Tommy did as well but they had a harder time accepting the need for change. I think if they didn't change things up, A&M would have dropped them because they as a label to could see the shift as well.

[yogi]

You must be shi tting me. A&M would have dropped them after the success of The Grand Illusion & Pieces Of Eight. BULL shi.!!

Yes Dennis went to Europe on The Grand Decathelon/Cornerstone Tour, and yes he made an observation about the music scene and that the music scene had changed(over there)...... so damn what.

The Euros come here to make it BIG. You dont make it in the music scene until you make it in America. Why did The Beattles cross the pond???

What if Cornerstone had more songs like Borrowed Time, Love in The Midnight & Lights? Boy that would have really sucked. Lady proved that Styx could write and perform the power ballad. Hell, Styx orginated the power ballad . Another Lady VS Babe ,which is a better song?

Had Styx stayed the course of Equinox, The Grand Illusion & Pieces Of Eight plus the power ballad Lady Rush most likely would be following them into the R&R Hall of Fame,no matter what Rolling Slime and the other so called 'music experts' thought.


That Euro argument is a TOTAL bunch of crap. Hell I liked Cornerstone & Paradise Theatre but when they went techno with crap like Roboto, High Time and Music Time they COMPLETELY ceased to be the band they once were which was a GREAT GREAT band.

Roboto fit right in with The Safety Dance and They Blinded Me With Science is that a good thing? They should have stayed the course that got em there in the first place. If so they would be far more relevant today.

[masque]

yogi isnt wrong.

[Toph]

No, Yogi is wrong. I am so sick of this double standard on here totally fed by the Tommy Shaw contigent that says that its okay to like Styx from 75-78, but anything starting in 79 sucks and was a huge mistake by the band. That is fucking bullshit. Period. Styx gained an entire legion of fans as a result of their work from 1979 - 1983 including yours truly. There are a lot of people that like Styx from 1979 onward more than the "early" days. Paradise Theater was my first album and I still consider it to be the masterpiece of Styx albums. It was the only album to hit #1. Quite frankly, I think that outside of the title track and maybe This Old Man, Crystal Ball as an album sucks the big one. There are some good Styx moments from 75-78, but there are a lot of bombastic, overdone, and quite frankly, obnoxious moments too. So, let's give up this tired refrain of the wheels fell off after Pieces of Eight, because that is a huge load of crap. A lot of people discovered and appreciate the pop side of Styx more than the overdone, pretentiousness of the earlier years.

[Toph]

P.S. Love In The Midnight is filler....

[gr8dane]

No toph.You are wrong.
Yogi is right.

[Archetype]

I probably wouldn't have gotten into bands like Styx, Journey, REO Speedwagon, Kansas, etc. if it weren't for the song Mr. Roboto.

[gr8dane]

I probably wouldn't have gotten into bands like Styx, Journey, REO Speedwagon, Kansas, etc. if it weren't for the song Mr. Roboto.

In that case credit where credit is due.
That is probably the only good thing, to come out of mr. roboto then.

[cittadeeno23]

Love in the Midnight is filler???????

WTF? Are you kidding me? Not only was Love in the Midnight the best song on Cornerstone (next to Borrowed Time) it was one of the best songs that Styx EVER recorded!
And Yogi is right. As much as I love Cornerstone and Paradise Theater, as they are the soundtracks to my Highschool years,
the 4 previous albums are so much better. Equinox and The Grand Illusion are both masterpieces!
There was no need to change musical direction. And there was certainly no need for HORNS!!! They could have still had 'Babe' and 'The Best of Times', but kept the rest of the albums more progressive. It would have been a great compromise.
I absolutely love Dennis and I understand what he was trying to do, and I admire him for taking a chance. And in some ways, he was right. They may have gained more fans than they lost with the new sound. (although a LOT of my friends jumped ship when Cornerstone came out).
But the bottom line is the fact that the change in musical direction led to the eventual breakup of the band, because it rubbed the other guys the wrong way. No matter how you look at it. Period. And that is NOT a good thing. What good is it to be new and fresh and relevant and "with the times" IF THE BAND IS BROKEN UP!!!

[brywool]

Your right they weren't a horn band. They also weren't just a hard rock band or a soft\pop rock band or a prog band either. They were a combination of all these styles and more. It was their different individual influences on each other that created diversity in the music they made. It's what made them different from other bands and I think better.

I agree with this, wholeheartedly. I just didn't dig the horn tunes much. A clarinet solo isn't what I want out of Styx.

[brywool]

See, when Toph goes on the whole rant deal and just blankets everyone as part of the Tommy Shaw militia ya lose me...

MANY Styx fans (Including the majority of STYX themselves apparently) did not want to go into certain territories with the band. It's THEIR music, it's THEIR decision. Just because fans like the Pre-Cornerstone version of the band doesn't mean they are "Tommy Shaw Loyalists" or absolutely hate the band after that period. That's absurd. It probably, more likely, means they wanted the band to lean to more rock than pop. The band did great things after Pieces of 8 and it did great things before it. However- for my money (and many others), which I paid by buying albums and cds (note- NOT OR CDS, I PURCHASED BOTH) chinks in the armour started to appear around Cornerstone. That was the first Styx album since Equinox where I actually didn't like a few tracks. For the most part, those tracks were Eddie and First Time. The rest of it was fine, even Babe. It was light, but it was one track, big deal. The assertion that Love in the Midnight was filler is just dumb. The Message and Aku Aku- THOSE were filler for the fact that they sound like unfinished tracks.

[Toph]

Love in the Midnight is filler???????

WTF? Are you kidding me? Not only was Love in the Midnight the best song on Cornerstone (next to Borrowed Time) it was one of the best songs that Styx EVER recorded!
And Yogi is right. As much as I love Cornerstone and Paradise Theater, as they are the soundtracks to my Highschool years,
the 4 previous albums are so much better. Equinox and The Grand Illusion are both masterpieces!
There was no need to change musical direction. And there was certainly no need for HORNS!!! They could have still had 'Babe' and 'The Best of Times', but kept the rest of the albums more progressive. It would have been a great compromise.
I absolutely love Dennis and I understand what he was trying to do, and I admire him for taking a chance. And in some ways, he was right. They may have gained more fans than they lost with the new sound. (although a LOT of my friends jumped ship when Cornerstone came out).
But the bottom line is the fact that the change in musical direction led to the eventual breakup of the band, because it rubbed the other guys the wrong way. No matter how you look at it. Period. And that is NOT a good thing. What good is it to be new and fresh and relevant and "with the times" IF THE BAND IS BROKEN UP!!!

If Love in the Midnight is such a good song, then where did it chart? When was it played in concert? I really want to know. If a song is not released, not played in concert, and ultimately forgotten, then to me that qualifies as filler.

Yogi likes to think is opinion represents everyone when in fact, it clearly doesn't. The 9 million record buyers who bought albums after Pieces of Eight would beg to differ. And there was a need to change musical direction - the times were changing - either evolve or go away.

And, this direction wasn't the reason for the breakup. I love how people conveniently forget that one member was so stoned out of his mind that he thought his interests were better than the bands, cutting short a tour, interupting the single releases, and being a self admitted asshole. That is why the band broke up. One member was a coke addict and couldn't pull himself together.

[Boomchild]

You must be shi tting me. A&M would have dropped them after the success of The Grand Illusion & Pieces Of Eight. BULL shi.!!

Yes Dennis went to Europe on The Grand Decathelon/Cornerstone Tour, and yes he made an observation about the music scene and that the music scene had changed(over there)...... so damn what.

The Euros come here to make it BIG. You dont make it in the music scene until you make it in America. Why did The Beattles cross the pond???

What if Cornerstone had more songs like Borrowed Time, Love in The Midnight & Lights? Boy that would have really sucked. Lady proved that Styx could write and perform the power ballad. Hell, Styx orginated the power ballad . Another Lady VS Babe ,which is a better song?

Had Styx stayed the course of Equinox, The Grand Illusion & Pieces Of Eight plus the power ballad Lady Rush most likely would be following them into the R&R Hall of Fame,no matter what Rolling Slime and the other so called 'music experts' thought.


That Euro argument is a TOTAL bunch of crap. Hell I liked Cornerstone & Paradise Theatre but when they went techno with crap like Roboto, High Time and Music Time they COMPLETELY ceased to be the band they once were which was a GREAT GREAT band.

Roboto fit right in with The Safety Dance and They Blinded Me With Science is that a good thing? They should have stayed the course that got em there in the first place. If so they would be far more relevant today.

Regardless of where Dennis got the impression that the musical landscape was changing doesn't change the fact that it did. The snyth stuff was what was becoming popular during the 80's so from a business stand point it wasn't a bad idea to have them try it out. And speaking about KWH, even Dennis said that after it he felt they would have gone back to a making a more traditional rock album. But all of this is speculation because the demise of the band had more to do with Tommy's drug use, getting bored and quitting. Also to this day I still believe that due to his drug use he got the delusional idea in his head that he could be just as successful on his own.

[yogi]

Styx knew all about the synth stuff. Hell, in song one off of Tommy's first album with the band JY's ' Put Me On' sings about letting the synthesizers play.

My point is so what if the music landscape was changing in Europe. Why would that dictate a change in music direction? Did it change what Pink Floyd, Rush or Led Zepplin was doing at the time? Was Styx planning to play at Cricket matches?

I liked the shi t out of Cornerstone and Paradise Theatre but IMO they were not even close to as good as Equinox, The Grand Illusion or Pieces Of Eight. The concept for Kilroy was excellent but the album blew chunks( Welcome back Froy)

Why did Dennis let Europe dictate what he thought was popular, That is what I dont get. Why did he even care?? Because of this Styx diminished its prog influence that attracted so many to Styx in the first place.

[Toph]

Styx knew all about the synth stuff. Hell, in song one off of Tommy's first album with the band JY's ' Put Me On' sings about letting the synthesizers play.

My point is so what if the music landscape was changing in Europe. Why would that dictate a change in music direction? Did it change what Pink Floyd, Rush or Led Zepplin was doing at the time? Was Styx planning to play at Cricket matches?

I liked the shi t out of Cornerstone and Paradise Theatre but IMO they were not even close to as good as Equinox, The Grand Illusion or Pieces Of Eight. The concept for Kilroy was excellent but the album blew chunks( Welcome back Froy)

Why did Dennis let Europe dictate what he thought was popular, That is what I dont get. Why did he even care?? Because of this Styx diminished its prog influence that attracted so many to Styx in the first place.

Styx is not prog. They have a few songs that are influenced by prog, but they are not close to being in the same vein as ELP, Kansas, early Genesis, Yes, etc.

[yogi]

Never said they were a prog band but many of their early A&M albums had a good dose of prog influence on many of their songs.

Cornerstone went pop, then Paradise moved them back slightly toward Pieces Of Eight,but then the Kilroy album had major techno influences ala Men at Work, Men Without Hats Thomas Dolby, etc. Music Time....vomit.... For the most part Edge rocked and then Tommy dusted off his Backstreet Boys influence with Witness as Denny went showtune.............. for about 80% of Brave New World.

As for me I liked my Styx when they were closer to Rush, Pink Floyd, Kansas, Yes, etc....

[cittadeeno23]

A song doesn't have to "chart" to be a good song. Have you listened to the top-40 lately? 95% of it is pure trash. Probably closer to 99.9%.

Did Suite Madame Blue chart? Did Grand Illusion Chart? Did Castle Walls chart? Did Man in the Wilderness chart? Did Born for Adventure chart? Did Half Penny, Two Penny chart? Did Queen of Spades chart?

Not all songs are meant for pop radio. Styx was a fantastic, ROCK band before Cornerstone came out.
How many pop songs has the band RUSH charted? Yet are they still going strong? Are they still Relevant???
Take a look at Billboard's book of top 40 POP hits. See any Led Zeppelin in there? Were they a relevant band?

And have you even listened to the HARMONIES on Love in the Midnight? How can you possibly call THAT filler???

[Toph]

A song doesn't have to "chart" to be a good song. Have you listened to the top-40 lately? 95% of it is pure trash. Probably closer to 99.9%.

Did Suite Madame Blue chart? Did Grand Illusion Chart? Did Castle Walls chart? Did Man in the Wilderness chart? Did Born for Adventure chart? Did Half Penny, Two Penny chart? Did Queen of Spades chart?

Not all songs are meant for pop radio. Styx was a fantastic, ROCK band before Cornerstone came out.
How many pop songs has the band RUSH charted? Yet are they still going strong? Are they still Relevant???
Take a look at Billboard's book of top 40 POP hits. See any Led Zeppelin in there? Were they a relevant band?

And have you even listened to the HARMONIES on Love in the Midnight? How can you possibly call THAT filler???

Clearly reading comprehension wasn't your strong suit. I said a song if filler if it is not released as a single, played on the radio, OR played by the band in concert. The definition of filler is a one and done - recorded for the album then never heard from again. So, for example, here are some Styx songs that I would consider "Filler" in the A&M years.

- Mother Dear
- Lonely Child
- Jennifer
- Put Me On
- This Old Man
- Superstars (until played at GI/Po* tour)
- I'm Okay (until GI/Po8 tour)
- Lords Of The Ring (until GI/Po8 tour)
- Never Say Never
- Eddie
- Love In the Midnight
- Lonely People
- She Cares
- Double Life
- Just Get Through This Night
- Carrie Ann
- Homewrecker
- Back To Chicago

And Styx isn't Rush and isn't Led Zepplin. Styx is closer to Air Supply than Led Zepplin. I love how so many of you want Styx to be this macho, hard rock band. They just weren't. Get over it.

[Toph]

Never said they were a prog band but many of their early A&M albums had a good dose of prog influence on many of their songs.

Cornerstone went pop, then Paradise moved them back slightly toward Pieces Of Eight,but then the Kilroy album had major techno influences ala Men at Work, Men Without Hats Thomas Dolby, etc. Music Time....vomit.... For the most part Edge rocked and then Tommy dusted off his Backstreet Boys influence with Witness as Denny went showtune.............. for about 80% of Brave New World.

As for me I liked my Styx when they were closer to Rush, Pink Floyd, Kansas, Yes, etc....

And I like them when they are closer to Chicago, Journey, Foreigner, etc.....but yet for some reason that isn't ok, but yours is? Styx has many different sounds. There is not one Styx sound. People can choose to like which version they like. But let's stop trying to pretend that the only good Styx occured from 75-78, despite what JY wants you to think. They had plenty of clunkers during that time period and they had plenty of good songs from 79-91.

[Boomchild]

Styx knew all about the synth stuff. Hell, in song one off of Tommy's first album with the band JY's ' Put Me On' sings about letting the synthesizers play.

My point is so what if the music landscape was changing in Europe. Why would that dictate a change in music direction? Did it change what Pink Floyd, Rush or Led Zepplin was doing at the time? Was Styx planning to play at Cricket matches?

I liked the shi t out of Cornerstone and Paradise Theatre but IMO they were not even close to as good as Equinox, The Grand Illusion or Pieces Of Eight. The concept for Kilroy was excellent but the album blew chunks( Welcome back Froy)

Why did Dennis let Europe dictate what he thought was popular, That is what I dont get. Why did he even care?? Because of this Styx diminished its prog influence that attracted so many to Styx in the first place.

It wasn't just what Dennis thought about the change in the music scene. He has also commented that he wanted to do something different post PO8 because he thought they had done enough of that type of album.