Listening Party - Kilroy Was Here

[Toph]

"Moms and Dads I see the future. A future without rock n roll music."

"Kilroy was just a man, whose circumstances went beyond his control..."

With those words launch the most ambitious, most incredulous album release in the history of Styx. Praised by some, derided by others, containing the band's most kitchy and culturally memorable tune, to say Kilroy was Here is polarizing is an understatement.

Let's look at some of the trivia behind Kilroy was Here
- It came out the exact same week as Journey's new album, Frontiers. In fact Rolling Stone did a double review of both albums. Not surprisingly, neither was very positive. On the competition front, Styx did better on the two lead singles (Roboto #3 surpassed Separate Ways #8 and DLIE #6 out charted Faithfully #12), but Journey's Frontiers had more staying power and two more mid chart singles and ultimately sold a few million more copies.
- Styx was so big at the time that like Best of Times on Paradise, both Roboto (#39) and DLIE (#35) debuted in the top 40.
- The two singles were supposed to be Don't Let It End followed by Haven't We Been Here Before. Roboto was never going to be a single. But the power of marketing research showed that it would be a huge hit.
- Roboto was essentially stopped from being a #1 single by the King of Pop, Michael Jackson, who had two little songs you might be aware of "Billie Jean" and "Beat It" both hitting #1 for weeks on end during this period.
- As it was, Roboto joined Babe as Styx's only million selling single
- As many know, HWBHB was going to be the album's third single, but Tommy Shaw, admittedly not operating with all of his faculties in the middle of the KWH tour, wanted a live version of Cold War released as the third single. The band (and the record company) called BS on that. But Shaw was adamant to NOT release HWBHB as he was once again worried about Styx's rock cred. The result was a compromise and High Time was released with little promotion and no video. DeYoung calls High Time the "worst song on the album." Styx had many issues with singles and here is another one....
- The movie - here it is in all its glory. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0yTeUrCjms. Love the clip of Borrowed Time. Why did that leave the set list?
- Backwards messages - To answer the critics, there are actually two backwards messages on Kilroy, both on Heavy Metal Poisoning. The first is well known - Annuit Coeptis Novus Ordo Seclorum God is With Us - A New Order For The Ages. The other is during the guitar solo. Backwards it says "Sparky knows the secret" in reference to Sparky the flying wonder dog from Paradise Theater.

So here it is in all its glory. Styx goes techno. Styx goes New Wave. Styx goes Theatre and then some.....presenting Kilroy Was Here....Put it on and listen to it like its 1983 all over again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfPG_mh ... 1FA5401FE8

[Toph]

And if you really want to see a hilarious review. Check out this guy.....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5842c-9Baw

[yogi]

DAMN that is funny!!

[brywool]

The thing I liked the MOST about Kilroy was the film they showed before the concert and on CITA.
I thought it was awesome (Dennis' acting was a bit funky when he was talking to the Roboto in his cell, but...).
I also loved the video for "Heavy Metal Poisoning". When Shaw stands up out of the audience wagging his finger at Dr. Righteous, it's way cool.

As far as the ALBUM, there are some things I like, there are some things I don't. I think the problems with the album are mostly in the Production area. The songs, for the most part are decent songs, but the Production was so unStyx that I had a hard time getting into it. There're too many high, 80s keyboards over the top. Not enough of Dennis' piano and his Hammond is nowhere to be found. It dates the album for me. This album was missing something for me. It didn't have the balls that previous albums (even Cornerstone) had for me. For example, "High Time"- the harmonies aren't the usual Styx fat harmonies and they just don't sound that powerful to me and for some reason, it's always dragged the track down for me.

Cold War- I remember liking this one quite a bit. It's got a cool groove and a great drum part from John. The one thing I don't like is the higher keyboard that follows the bass line. It just kind of wimps it out to me.

Don't Let it End- Decent single, but kind of a Babe retread. I would rather (and feel the same about Babe) that Dennis played an acoustic piano instead. It's too much like Babe and we'd already heard that. Nothing against Babe. Good guitar solo too.

High Time- Not a fan of the opening low harmonies (bom bom...- just not Styx to me). I think it just makes the song too dorky. Dennis, turns in a good lead vocal here. Again, there's that high keyboard over the top of everything that just bugs me. This song, Roboto, and HMP are really the 'concept album' portion of the record for me. Maybe Cold War too. The "High Time" harmonies are way too... "saturday morning" for me. I do dig the "Change is coming..., etc." harmonies, but the the way "High Time" is sung is just not my bag. The synth horns don't work for me either. I remember liking this when it came out, but as I've gotten older, it doesn't stand up.

Heavy Metal Poisoning (HMP)- when I first heard this, I didn't like it. Jy's 'Cowardly Lion' vocal just drove me nuts. I remember my friends just going apeshit because it was so bad. However, in the context of the concept and of course, the HMP video, it works great and this song has actually become a favorite. Great chorus where you can hear all the band members singing as opposed to "Roboto" where it sounds like Dennis only. I would've much preferred to hear Dennis playing Hammond on this than those higher keyboards he's using. Great guitar solo from Shaw here. If you listen to the guitar solo section, THAT is how the entire track should've sounded. Meaning there's none of the 80s keys in there and it makes it so much fatter. Not sure if that makes sense or not, but those keyboards are SO 1983 and they don't stand up for me.

Just Get Through this Night- This to me is the best song on the album. It's not dated, it's not poorly performed or mixed and Shaw packs a lot of "feel" into his vocal. Not sure what happened on this record with Tommy's voice, but his vocal delivery and range really expanded. If you listen to the bridge ("Don't you know that there's no place on this earth...") he uses a super high voice I'd not heard from him to this point. This track actually has the vibe of some of the "Girls With Guns" tracks for me, but the instrumentation on the track is great and it's kind of a "timeless" tune for this album that has such a dated feel to it as a whole. Current Styx should pull this out live because it's a great tune and way underrated.

Double Life- To me it's an extended version of the beginning of "Snowblind". This one just doesn't have enough fire. It feels very wooden and again, for me, Dennis' keyboards really interfere with it. The drums and bass are also extremely dull here. It feels like a well produced demo, as does a lot of this album for me. It just doesn't go anywhere for me. The synth solo in the middle is also quite dull. Not sure if that was JYs guitar synth or Dennis, but I don't dig it at all. Then you got JYs voice.

Haven't we Been Here Before- The other great track of this album along with Just Get Through This Night. Again, Tommy's voice is just amazingly great on this tune. It's nice to hear Dennis and Tommy in a duet too. Not sure if it's correct or not, but this song to me is Tommy weighing his options about staying in Styx or not. For all the strife the band had, he and Dennis were great together and Dennis turns in a great vocal here too. Having said all that, this isn't really a very "Styxish" song to me, it's just a great song.

Don't Let it End Reprise- ehh, just doesn't add much to the "concept" and just doesn't really do much for me.

MR. Roboto-
Man, I remember the excitement of waiting for "Mtv's world premiere video of the new Styx song". They promoted the crap out of it. When I first saw it, I was like "What the hell happened to Styx??". I hated the tune for SO many years. To me, it just destroyed the band. It was like all the ooomph and rock went out of the band at that very moment. "Babe" was one thing- every band has it's share of ballads, some good (babe) some bad (first time)- but THIS?? What the hell is this??? Where's Tommy? Where's JY? Having said all that- the production on this track is actually way cool. Great sound throughout, even though it's Dennis on the same keyboards as everything else. In fact, the whole track sounds like Dennis to me. I don't hear Tommy, Jy, or anyone else. The bass and drum parts could be a drum machine for all I know, but on the backup vocals, it's all Dennis. Now- after doing the Styx tribute thingy, I've got a lot more respect for the track AND it's fun to play. The other thing is, people love the track and that's worth something. So the track has really grown on me and is a cool track.

Now- for something you'll either like or rip me a new one on.... here ya go.

http://youtu.be/1lJgP3BiihI

[Toph]

Bry -

You know when you are too close to something and someone points something out and you want to slap your head and say, of course - why did I not think of that! Your post just did that to me. I always wondered why the songs on Kilroy don't feel like Styx to me and its the harmonies (or lack thereof) - the harmonies aren't nearly as strong as the ones on say Paradise Theater (arguably the album that contains the best Stygian harmonies). There are few instances on Kilroy where the classic three part harmony is in action. THAT is what's missing!!!

Cool rendition of Roboto too!

[Everett]

Why bry why???? My styx tribute band would never play that (ok we prob would even
though i hate the crap outta it ) Anyways you've got an awesome group of
guys there bry and thanks for not whimping out on the high note near the end like ddy
does. Also you should do the whole "who's your daddy??? who's your mama???" thing
he does during the I'm kilroy bit.

[ztyxlynne]

I remember hearing Mr Roboto for the first time. I though where are the guitars? Where is the harmony? I didn't hear any of that. I can't remember the last time I listened to the album. Its been that long. There isn't that rocker in there. Ok HMP but I wanted a DDY or Tommy hard hitting song. Overall a 6 from me.

[FormerDJMike]

"STYX HAS A NEW LEAD SINGER!!" My friend Chuck told me. "What? But I've heard Roboto and it sounds like Dennis to me!" was my reply. I was 12 years old. "Yep" he said... "I just saw the video on MTV. The new guy is older but he sounds just like Dennis". I couldn't believe it. So I waited and watched MTV. Sure enough Mr. Roboto finally came on... "Wow".. I couldn't believe it myself. Styx DID indeed had a new singer that sounded just like Dennis and they had a new keyboard sound.......

Until I went to a store called The Record Bar in the mall and looked at the Kilroy LP for myself. Ha! It was Dennis after all, with grayer, shorter hair and no beard or mustache. You see, us dumb 12 year olds were used to looking at the GI poster and old pics of Dennis. He was no longer a guy with long black hair and a beard.

Now on the the album. I loved this album and still do to this day. This album solidified me as a Styx fan. But again, I was 12 years old and I think I must've been the type of fan JY & Tommy didn't want at the time. "Kidstuff". I like just about every track on this album. I enjoy the pictures in a jacket (I recently listened to it on vinyl and enjoyed reading the story and looking at the pics again).

Personally I think this is a very polished record and I love the sound of the production. I love the sound on John & Chuck in the rhythm section. To me it sounds like some very seasoned, professional musicians.

Always loved Roboto, Cold War & Don't Let It End.... I've heard rumors that Tom Dziallo actually "ghost" plays lead on this song. After hearing that rumor it does sound like his style of guitar solo. High Time was also enjoyable but I didn't care for the intro (like already mentioned in this thread). I always tried to figure out what the Roboto voice is saying in the middle of the song. I know it is a line or two from the film but I have never been sure if it is the exact same thing. Do they use keyboard horns on this song or are they real horns? I'll need to go back and read the liner notes.

Side 2 opens with HMP. I remember my brother saying "What is that crap you're listening to?!?" I said "STYX!". He then asked "Since when does Styx sing "Holy Moly, Sex & Drugs!". HAHA. I told him what they were really saying. At times Just Get Through This Night was my favorite track. It reminds me of the Ice Chalet in Knoxville. When I was a kid they would always play that song for slow skate. Funny, when I was in college at UT in the early 90's they STILL played it.... Even after I graduated I went there with my wife and even heard it then. So someone who worked there from the time I was 12 to about 24 must've been a fan of that song. Double Life reminded me of Snowblind but a bit wimpier sounding. I still loved the song but it was not as rockin as what I wanted it to be. Haven't We Been Here Before.... Never really cared for it until I got much older. I love the guitar sound when the full band finally kicks in to play. DLE Reprise. I also love that song and how the guitar overpowers the keyboards. One of my favorite Styx albums. I truly enjoy it probably more now at 43 then when I was 12....

Oh, and as for my child-hood pal Chuck, we remained life-long friends and Styx fans. He traveled with me in 1991 to StyxCon to see Styx in Chicago. Even tho we lived several states away from each other we kept in touch. Last summer he actually bought me GI on 180 gram vinyl and sent it to me. Sadly, my life long friend was killed in a tragic car accident on Thanksgiving Day 2013. I miss my pal and every time I look at the Kilroy album I think of him and laugh about how Styx had a "new" lead singer.

[Cassie May]

I remember the very first time I heard Mr Roboto on the radio. One of the Cleveland stations announced the grand unveiling of the song...at 2 AM. I stayed awake and waited for it, sitting on the floor next to my stereo so I could record it. Well, I was FLOORED when I heard it. I didn't understand it at all. I couldn't believe this was Styx. When I read Sterling's book, I laughed because Todd described the same story of hearing Roboto premiere on a Chicago station at 2 AM. Must have been some sort of label deal, who knows? As for the album, I did not like it at all. I did buy it, I did see the tour (I was one of those displaced by Tommy's hand injury--originally scheduled in July of 83, but wound up seeing them 9/11/83 instead), but I did not buy into the concept. I thought it was cheesy as hell and I cringed at the movie and the show. As a teenager then, I just kept wondering what in the hell had happened to my favorite band. Back in those days, we had no idea of the inner strife going on; it was not presented publicly at all. There was even a cheesy mention in 16 Magazine of TS' injury--and it was presented as he had locked himself out of his house and cut his hand while trying to get in through a window. Now, all these years later, there is not much on the album I like or even listen to. I do like Don't Let It End and Just Get Through This Night. I remember seeing the video for Haven't We Been Here Before and thinking, What the hell? It didn't go with the song at all. When I look back on all the albums, I think of Cornerstone as the beginning of the end, and Kilroy as the final nail in the coffin of what had been a great 70s band. It's easy to play the what if game, and I do wonder what would have happened if they had put out an album of rock at this time rather than a sort-of rock opera that no one really understood.

[Boomchild]

It's easy to play the what if game, and I do wonder what would have happened if they had put out an album of rock at this time rather than a sort-of rock opera that no one really understood.

They would have still broken up no matter what type of album they would have done. It was the people and personalities that did them in. As far as no one getting the concept of KWH I wouldn't put everyone in that category. I got it and in that I am not saying it was fleshed out enough.

[yogi]

I actually thought it was a GREAT topic and concept and I got it.

The movie explained the concept far better than the album did.

Remember that Tipper Gore and so other right wing elitists thought Styx had put backwards satanic messaging on the song Snowblind( Paradise Theater album). I remember at the time some whack jobs were burning albums. I remember some Prince albums being burned in church parking lot in Minneapolis.

The concept was great and for me it was easy to understand.

[yogi]

You are correct.

Both parties were total whack jobs on this topic.

[masque]

man this is a real tough one for me.......my older brother who graduated high school in 1980 was and still is a huge styx fan.....so from the time I was five up I was listening to styx almost daily.....they were my heroes.

when kilroy came out i was 13 years old and it was the first official album I bought with my own money......all my other stuff I grew up on was listening to albums my brother owned.

at the time of the release I loved roboto.......and I thought dont let it end was OK........the rest of the album I enjoyed alot not quite as much as I had PT in 81 but it was styx and so it was all good to me.

now fast forward to 2014 and I can easily look at their a & m albums and say without hesitation that it is by far their weakest from a song standpoint. dont let it end was just a notch above first time (although the guitar solo was great)......roboto is a career killer.......yes, it was a huge hit, yest, it was catchy as hell, yes people still remember it, yes their was a volksawagon comercial with it in it......

BUT.....that song was so far out of the scope of what millions and millions of fans had grown to love and admire from styx that it was certainly the bump in the tracks that would have/did start the final de-railing of the band.....even if they had stayed together it would have been the beginning of the end. so many people/long time styx fans jumped ship on that tune and that album that it would have been hard to recover from........it doesnt mean roboto is a bad song, but it was not the right song for this band based on what people expected from them......and not many bands (other than queen) are capable enough or have flexible enough fans to ride their creative waves when they stray too far from the formula.

I also agree big time with the previous comment about the gay sounding keyboards that permeate throughout the album. many of those songs would hold up better and have been better then with less of that and more guitar.

with all of that criticism out of the way heres the funny thing about this album.........although i know it is subpar compared to their a & m output.......I find the album to be a huge "guilty pleasure".......it's like the movie "flash gordon".....i know it's cheesy and the fx were dated when it was released and it was campy as hell.....i LOVE it.

same thing with this album......cheesy production, cheesy movie with cheesy acting......some of the songs sound forced to fit the concept.......yet I still can listen and enjoy the hell out of this album.....even to this day.

i know lots of folks dont like "cold war" but for whatever reason once I saw them do it on the live video it became one of my faves from the album.......i love the "you talk talk and you get so intense" parts of the songs.

i really dig both of the JY songs as well. and "just get through this night" is one of tommy's best songs ever.

everyone knows that "havnt we been here before" is a styx classic and i think would have been a nice top 15 hit if tommy would have allowed it to be properly released.

so there it is......the album is pretty good at times, has a few fabulous spots and some not so good spots........my overall rating is a 7.5.

[Kilroy1983]

In my opinion KWH was really a modern album for its time. Particularly I like all music except High Time. Both the movie and music videos seem to have been made for MTV but I think the Styx was buried by KWH Tour. The first leg of the tour was perfect, 6 big cities, small venues, a good idea to take the concept of the new album to the legion of fans with a most elaborated concert. They could even have included the songs "DL" and "JGTTN" which would give more sense in the story.
But take to a second leg of tour a performance of more than 2 hours, with a movie of over 10 minutes and several theatrical inserts during the show, I really think it was not a good strategy and ended up shaking the already sensitive relationship between Tommy and Dennis.

[Toph]

This was my very first Styx album. I guess I would be one of those "newbie" fans that got brought in by Kilroy that JY likes to snub his nose at. Well, it also might have been my age at the time too. I was 13 and probably into the music scene a little later than other kids. I had heard Best of Times before and probably Babe, but this was my first record album that I bought myself. I had the opposite take as DJ Mike in that the short haired Dennis was what I knew and later, when I went to discover their older albums, I remember looking at the back of the Grand Illusion. The only person I recognized was Tommy Shaw and Chuck. Remember, looking at Kilroy, I thought JY had a buzz cut and then you had JP with much shorter hair and DDY looks like a totally different person than what is depicted on Grand Illusion. I thought to myself - that band really changed a lot of members over the course of their albums!

Kilroy came out and of course everyone heard Roboto. You could not miss it - it was so overplayed. If its released any other time besides when Michael Jackson is ruling the world, its a #1 single. I thought it was interesting sounding and while some of my friends were listening to harder edge stuff, this was certainly acceptable by my friends to listen to (again, we were 13). Looking at it today, I feel what most do - this is the second Dennis DeYoung solo song (Babe was the first). I don't hear any other member on this song - drum machine - no JP; Bass synth - no chuck; No JY; maybe one guitar at the end - tommy shaw or tommy dziallo? Vocals - obviously DDY overdubbed. Even though the harmonies are all DDY, one of the better harmonic tunes on the album - which has little classic Styx harmonies.

Cold War - The problem I have with Cold War is that it takes too long to get to the chorus. Yes, you have the Cold War up front, but the verses are long and with out a chorus separating the first two, it takes forever to get to the chorus. The song doesn't really know whether it should be a guitar rocker or a techno-keyboard driven pop tune. Feels like more of the latter. Assuming they were thinking this might be a sister to TMTOMH, but it just doesn't work as well. Not as catchy, not as good harmonies. Speaking of harmonies - who is singing on this. Does not sound like Styx.

DLIE - The DDY ballad. Weaker than Babe, Best of Times, Lady. A fine song but not a classic. The "Hon-ney" and echoing "more, more, more" are obnoxious and take away from the song. Harmonies are just TS and DDY and while okay aren't as big sounding as past Styx albums. Still it was a Styx ballad, and any ballad they were going to release then was going to do well. This is no exception.

High Time - Another song that takes WAAAAAAYYY to long to get to the chorus. I guess that was the style back then - two verses before the chorus, but it just leaves you with the "get on with it already" feeling. Again, who is singing background vocals here. I don't recognize the voices at all and they don't sound very Styx-like. Another solo DDY tune? Trumpets actually add to the song and make it more catchy than it should be. Should never have been released as a single - its role was to help tell the story.

Heavy Metal Poisoning - A kitschy type of tune that is fun and ironic at the same time. Dr. Righteous singing a "metal" song about the evils of heavy metal. Ha ha ha, you got us there, Styx. Can definitely hear DDY on background vox here, but Tommy Shaw? Again, the harmonies, especially considering how strong they were on Paradise Theatre, just aren't as good on Kilroy. Not really a hard rock JY song - DDY's keyboard tones that down a lot. But the "sex and drugs" part were a bit controversial if I can recall as parents would hear that and not understand the context and not be happy!

JGTTN - Great Tommy Shaw vocals, but again feels more like a TS solo song than a whole band effort. No background vox really here at all except the line "humbly thank my director" which again is not the big vocal sound we're used to hearing by Styx. Styx once again tries to put something mysterious on at the beginning with the Kilroy Jonathan conversation, but it is too soft to really make out.

DL - JY's first real pop song. And a good one at that. Best background vox so far on the album. I think all three are finally singing together here. If DDY sings this, it would have been a single, its that catchy. I guess A&M was afraid to release a JY tune.

HWBHB - should have been the third single. Very listenable and very strong vocally again by TS. Love the duet part with DDY. But again, lacks that big Styx harmony. Closest you get is the last "And as time goes on!" that is pretty good and dramatic, but still could hit harder. Very melodic tune that I enjoyed listening to a lot. Bet it would have done well.

DLIE (R) - Tommy singing the Roboto part and DDY doing his best Elvis impersonation. Very catchy song. A good chorus hear vocally. Could have maybe been longer and made into a regular song. Very fun to listen to and very upbeat - good defeats evil! We're saved!!

So there it is. Have very mixed feelings about Kilroy. Don't like the music as much as the others but it was also the album that introduced me to the band. I do not like the constant barrage of criticism it receives because a) its not that bad and b) they are at least trying to experiment. I think Kilroy does not suffer nearly the criticism if a) the songs are better, and b) there is a strong rock song on there. There really isn't. There is no Renegade or Snowblind. There really isn't even a TMTOMH. It feels like it is just trying too damn hard to be "cool" - too techno and too new wavey. I would have loved to have heard what the original concept (see liner notes of Greatest HIts) was like and had songs that were so techno/modern. That is this album's biggest failure.