MR

Monker/Masque/gr8tdane (aka the bathwater drinkers) have been brainwashed enough by Tommy Shaw to think that fans just want to hear the "classic rock" songs of Styx in concert vs. the Greatest Hits which includes both classic rock and pop songs. They never have facts for their argument, but rather think everyone should believe/act/desire the same things that they do.

Well, I'm a fact based kind of guy and here are a few facts that they will conveniently forget about. Let's look at iTunes, shall we? ITunes lists the top downloaded songs by each musical act. Let's check out Styx's.

Top Downloads, Styx

1. Renegade* (GH version)
2. Come Sail Away (GH version)
3. TMTOMH (GH version)
4. Roboto (GH version)
5. BABE (GH version)
6. The Best of Times (GH version)
7. Come Sail Away (Anthology version)

* Note if you combine the bars of CSA GH Version with Anthology Version, you have more downloads than Renegade, thereby placing CSA as the top downloaded Styx song.

If you look at the Top downloads, of the 6 original songs, 5 hit the top 10 when they were released. With Styx, you hear a total of 3 of these songs in concert. With Dennis DeYoung, you get all 6. In fact, if you take it a step further, with DDY, you get all 15 of the TOP DOWNLOADED STYX songs. With Styx, you get 7-8. So, despite the propaganda out there that some folks want you to believe, Styx is definitely hurting themselves by NOT playing their complete catalog.

Facts are a bitch, aren't they?

You are such an idiot.

I said they are obviously catering to the classic rock fans. I went to Google and looked at several "most played classic rock songs on radio"...or some search like that. I looked at a few lists and did not see "Babe" or "Don't Let It End" or "Mr. Roboto" on any of them. Those songs are NOT being played on classic rock radio.

If people want to look it up, they can...it's not that hard.

IMO, you did, found that I was right, and then came up with this generic "most downloaded" list to substitute.

Who cares? That's not my argument. It is looking at generic "Styx fans". That is a very, very limited audience and it is NOT who Styx is targeting.

Styx wants to target classic rock fans. They are having success at it and are able to tour year after year. They enjoy doing it. There is no reason to change simply because a vocal whiner of a DDY fan wants them to.

Monker wrote:You are such an idiot.

I said they are obviously catering to the classic rock fans. I went to Google and looked at several "most played classic rock songs on radio"...or some search like that. I looked at a few lists and did not see "Babe" or "Don't Let It End" or "Mr. Roboto" on any of them. Those songs are NOT being played on classic rock radio.

If people want to look it up, they can...it's not that hard.

IMO, you did, found that I was right, and then came up with this generic "most downloaded" list to substitute.

Who cares? That's not my argument. It is looking at generic "Styx fans". That is a very, very limited audience and it is NOT who Styx is targeting.

Styx wants to target classic rock fans. They are having success at it and are able to tour year after year. They enjoy doing it. There is no reason to change simply because a vocal whiner of a DDY fan wants them to.

How do you define success? Clearly you have low standards because they aren't exactly knocking the doors off with this current incarnation. 4000-5000 shared with 2 other bands is barely making it.

You seem to miss the point altogether. You (and Styx) want to try and dismiss the pop side of the band when in fact if you look at the number of songs downloaded - the songs that PEOPLE WILL PAY MONEY TO HEAR, the fact of the matter is that the pop side of the band is just as big (or actually bigger). This notion that such songs as Babe, Roboto, Best of Times, Show Me The Way, Don't Let It End, etc. etc. were just novelty songs that had a short life span is pure and utter bullshit. But it goes against the narrative that Tommy Shaw spews, so you go along with it.

Again, Journey embraces their pop side, Foreigner embraces theirs, REO embraces theirs. Styx is the only one that doesn't embrace theirs. So, who is the stupid one?

Here's a question for you topher.... who fucking gives a shit????? The fans have
two versions of a band they can see and with either version they will play the songs
you want to hear. Seriously topher you need to quit spending so much time here.
You must not have much of a home life if all you do is spend your time on a internet
message board and bitch about a band 30 yrs past it's prime. But whatever man to
each his own.

Everett wrote:Here's a question for you topher.... who fucking gives a shit????? The fans have
two versions of a band they can see and with either version they will play the songs
you want to hear. Seriously topher you need to quit spending so much time here.
You must not have much of a home life if all you do is spend your time on a internet
message board and bitch about a band 30 yrs past it's prime. But whatever man to
each his own.

OK coming from you Everett that is quite the irony...

Toph wrote:

Everett wrote:Here's a question for you topher.... who fucking gives a shit????? The fans have
two versions of a band they can see and with either version they will play the songs
you want to hear. Seriously topher you need to quit spending so much time here.
You must not have much of a home life if all you do is spend your time on a internet
message board and bitch about a band 30 yrs past it's prime. But whatever man to
each his own.

OK coming from you Everett that is quite the irony...

I may spend alot of time here but i don't start thread after thread bitching
about the same thing

Everett wrote:Here's a question for you topher.... who fucking gives a shit????? The fans have
two versions of a band they can see and with either version they will play the songs
you want to hear. Seriously topher you need to quit spending so much time here.
You must not have much of a home life if all you do is spend your time on a internet
message board and bitch about a band 30 yrs past it's prime. But whatever man to
each his own.

He can spend so much time here because he is an alien and probably the technology to slow down time so he can here as often as he wants.

Toph wrote:How do you define success?

I define success as making enough profit to tour next year, and have fun doing it.

Clearly you have low standards because they aren't exactly knocking the doors off with this current incarnation. 4000-5000 shared with 2 other bands is barely making it.

Clearly you cherry pick your info in a lame attempt to "prove" something that nobody really cares about.

They will perform here to 10,000 paying fans, and only Foreigner is with them.

You seem to miss the point altogether. You (and Styx) want to try and dismiss the pop side of the band when in fact if you look at the number of songs downloaded - the songs that PEOPLE WILL PAY MONEY TO HEAR, the fact of the matter is that the pop side of the band is just as big (or actually bigger).

Blah, blah, blah.

And, if they go and perform Mr. Roboto and Babe, this forum will have to put up with the same whiners....except this time you'll say that Styx are hypocrites for trashing those songs but play them in concert.

They do what they want to do and have fun doing it. You are just upset that Styx has proven for 15yrs that they do not need those songs. Get over it already.

This notion that such songs as Babe, Roboto, Best of Times, Show Me The Way, Don't Let It End, etc. etc. were just novelty songs that had a short life span is pure and utter bullshit. But it goes against the narrative that Tommy Shaw spews, so you go along with it.

Really? Please post a quote where I said that about those songs. Again....are you a liar or are you just stupid?

Again, as I have said repeatedly, Styx is catering to a classic rock crowd....NOT an 80's pop crowd.

Again, Journey embraces their pop side

Of course that is why their last album went in the exact opposite direction from their 80's pop sound, and why they are rotating non-hits into their set.

Ever since Augeri was hired Neal has said he wanted to take Journey into a new direction. It is why JSS briefly entered the band, and it is what Eclipse represents.

And, in the past they constantly whined about having to play nothing but hits...because when they don't they notice the crowd has a "WTF is this?" expression and half of them head to get a beer or to the toilet.

Get a clue.

Foreigner embraces theirs, REO embraces theirs

Don't know, don't care.

Styx is the only one that doesn't embrace theirs. So, who is the stupid one?

Good for Styx...I'd rather be a fan of a band that believes in a vision for the band and runs with it than one that constantly whines about certain songs but does nothing about it.

Toph wrote:Monker/Masque/gr8tdane (aka the bathwater drinkers) have been brainwashed enough by Tommy Shaw to think that fans just want to hear the "classic rock" songs of Styx in concert vs. the Greatest Hits which includes both classic rock and pop songs. They never have facts for their argument, but rather think everyone should believe/act/desire the same things that they do.

Well, I'm a fact based kind of guy and here are a few facts that they will conveniently forget about. Let's look at iTunes, shall we? ITunes lists the top downloaded songs by each musical act. Let's check out Styx's.

Top Downloads, Styx

1. Renegade* (GH version)
2. Come Sail Away (GH version)
3. TMTOMH (GH version)
4. Roboto (GH version)
5. BABE (GH version)
6. The Best of Times (GH version)
7. Come Sail Away (Anthology version)

* Note if you combine the bars of CSA GH Version with Anthology Version, you have more downloads than Renegade, thereby placing CSA as the top downloaded Styx song.

If you look at the Top downloads, of the 6 original songs, 5 hit the top 10 when they were released. With Styx, you hear a total of 3 of these songs in concert. With Dennis DeYoung, you get all 6. In fact, if you take it a step further, with DDY, you get all 15 of the TOP DOWNLOADED STYX songs. With Styx, you get 7-8. So, despite the propaganda out there that some folks want you to believe, Styx is definitely hurting themselves by NOT playing their complete catalog.

Facts are a bitch, aren't they?

Fascinating.
How about this bitching fact.
Dennis got the boot.
I don't miss him one bit.
Good riddance.
Styx,keep doing what you are doing.

The Illusion is that if DDY was to return and the band went back to the the type of set lists they used to play prior to DDY's ousting they would be playing to much larger audiences. That's not realistic. Were talking about a nostalgia act i.e. has-been. At best the casual fan is willing to shell out a few bucks to see a bunch of bands they liked in their youth and relive it for a few hours. That's it. They could care less about band politics, whats in or out of the set list etc. etc.. Only the diehards languish over such things and with Styx your talking about a very small hand full of diehards.

Toph wrote: REO embraces theirs.

That's because they still have that whiney egotistical cronin still at the helm.

gr8dane wrote:
Fascinating.
How about this bitching fact.
Dennis got the boot.
I don't miss him one bit.
Good riddance.
Styx,keep doing what you are doing.

+1000

Everett wrote:

gr8dane wrote:
Fascinating.
How about this bitching fact.
Dennis got the boot.
I don't miss him one bit.
Good riddance.
Styx,keep doing what you are doing.

+1000

Everett - you suck

gr8dane wrote:

Toph wrote:Monker/Masque/gr8tdane (aka the bathwater drinkers) have been brainwashed enough by Tommy Shaw to think that fans just want to hear the "classic rock" songs of Styx in concert vs. the Greatest Hits which includes both classic rock and pop songs. They never have facts for their argument, but rather think everyone should believe/act/desire the same things that they do.

Well, I'm a fact based kind of guy and here are a few facts that they will conveniently forget about. Let's look at iTunes, shall we? ITunes lists the top downloaded songs by each musical act. Let's check out Styx's.

Top Downloads, Styx

1. Renegade* (GH version)
2. Come Sail Away (GH version)
3. TMTOMH (GH version)
4. Roboto (GH version)
5. BABE (GH version)
6. The Best of Times (GH version)
7. Come Sail Away (Anthology version)

* Note if you combine the bars of CSA GH Version with Anthology Version, you have more downloads than Renegade, thereby placing CSA as the top downloaded Styx song.

If you look at the Top downloads, of the 6 original songs, 5 hit the top 10 when they were released. With Styx, you hear a total of 3 of these songs in concert. With Dennis DeYoung, you get all 6. In fact, if you take it a step further, with DDY, you get all 15 of the TOP DOWNLOADED STYX songs. With Styx, you get 7-8. So, despite the propaganda out there that some folks want you to believe, Styx is definitely hurting themselves by NOT playing their complete catalog.

Facts are a bitch, aren't they?

Fascinating.
How about this bitching fact.
Dennis got the boot.
I don't miss him one bit.
Good riddance.
Styx,keep doing what you are doing.

You and your buddy Everett continue to show your ignorance. Good riddance to that pathological lying drug addict and his no talent partner. Today's Styx SUCKS.

Toph wrote:You and your buddy Everett continue to show your ignorance. Good riddance to that pathological lying drug addict and his no talent partner. Today's Styx SUCKS.

So with this you are saying that since the ousting of DDY, TS and JY have lost all their talent and now suck at what they are doing? I wouldn't go that far. I am sure that they still can perform well and put on a professional show. It just not my cup of tea. Nor yours. But totally sucking is a stretch at best. I don't care for the replacements and the set list does not have the diversity of what Styx' music was. Hence the reason I don't go to see them. For the most part I can get what I enjoyed about Styx be seeing DDY. The ship has sailed and the fat lady has sung on the issues bounced around here. No amount of hashing or re-hashing is going to change it one bit.

Toph wrote:Good riddance to that pathological lying drug addict and his no talent partner. Today's Styx SUCKS.

Wow, I'm sorry you hate Dennis so much for hiring Tommy and JY sound and look-a-likes. Dennis REALLY sucks for doing that. Now every time you see one of his shows you have to look up on stage and be reminded of two people you feel nothing but malice towards.

I had a dream last night.
Topher was standing outside a Styx concert in Titusville.
He was trying to get people to sign a petition to get Styx to restore the legacy by playing Babe.
Out of a couple of thousand people,topher got 3 signatures.
Topher was trying to rile up the crowd.

topher- 'What do we want ?'
3 sigs- 'Babe'
topher - 'When do we want it ?'
3 sigs - 'Now'
topher - 'Why do we want it ?'
3 sigs - 'Legacy'.

And everybody else were laughing their faces off.

you know what pisses you off toph?

lets say youre a 100% correct and we're all fucking idiots.......then why does styx still get hired to play?

every promoter out there knows exactly what they are getting with this band......their current lineup and setlists are all out in the mainstream.

just because they carry the name styx doesnt mean that they havnt run it into the ground over the last 15 years (at least according to you)........

so if the replacement guys suck......the glory guys suck, the current band sucks and they have ruined the name and reputation of the band...........


then why in the fuck do they still get hired? why is there enough demand for them to get to play over 100 dates per year for the last 15 years?

it matters not what ANY of us think.......it's all about supply and demand and the all mighty dollar......the FACTS are if they werent able to draw a crowd as this band with this setlist then guess the fuck what????? they wouldnt exist....NO PROMOTER WOULD HIRE THEM. or they would have to conform and play babe and the other songs they choose not to play. surely to god in heaven you arent too dumb to understand those F-A-C-T-S.

you know it, I know it, the fucking monkey down the street knows it.....end of story. thread over.

and as for being a tommy bathwater guy.....let me say this for your dense brain again.

i simply like tommy's music better....his songs overall are my favorite.......i prefer his voice over dennis's voice.

I am also a guitar player and what tommy does appeals to me a bit more than what dennis does.

it's just that simple.....no bathwater.......just a preference.

I love DDY and the music he, tommy and JY made is my favorite music of all time.....so i dont dislike any of the members.

some of dennis' tunes are some of my faves and this band would not be considered my fave of all time without him.

im sorry they cant work together anymore.....i wish it werent that way but it is so i take it for what it is. some kids hate that their parents divorce but they still love both of them even if they can identify which is more to blame. I dont care who is to blame.....why does it matter to you.....just listen to their music.

in the end it's all about the music for me.....i dont care about their personalities or their private lives.....i just care about the music they created that has given me decades of enjoyment.

i think the current incarnation of styx is a great band and they do the original music justice. but i also think ddy and his current band do a good job as well. good for both of em I say.

maybe you are truly a dick or maybe you sit and laugh at all the shit you stir up toph and get off on creating a stir, but in reality the vitriol that you show towards the members of styx in regards to ddy leads me to believe that you must actually have a vested interest in the deal and are hiding behind the internet (protecting your loved one), or you're simply an ignorant dickhead that doesnt have enough of a life so you do these things to stir up trouble for your amusement.

i have been around this message board since about 2007 and I have no idea who you really are but i have honestly thought at different times you must be related to ddy in some way and are bitter and are fighting for him online in this message board......it has to be that because I refuse to believe that anyone could actually be as dumb as you are as evidenced by some of your arguments in recent years. either way its a very sad testament to the kind of person you are. i'm glad I dont have to wake up everyday in your skin.

Toph wrote:

Everett wrote:

gr8dane wrote:
Fascinating.
How about this bitching fact.
Dennis got the boot.
I don't miss him one bit.
Good riddance.
Styx,keep doing what you are doing.

+1000

Everett - you suck

I always suspected you were a 5 year old trapped in a grown ups body

masque wrote:i have been around this message board since about 2007 and I have no idea who you really are but i have honestly thought at different times you must be related to ddy in some way and are bitter and are fighting for him online in this message board......it has to be that because I refuse to believe that anyone could actually be as dumb as you are as evidenced by some of your arguments in recent years. either way its a very sad testament to the kind of person you are. i'm glad I dont have to wake up everyday in your skin.

Well, if that is the case I would think that DDY would cringe. I doubt that DDY would want this kind of support and defense. He clearly has said what is important is the music they created together. The old saying of "it takes two to tango" applies here. They all had their issues and faults that led to them no longer being able to work together as they did in the past. Sooner then later it won't matter anymore. Because at their age it will start to become a parody.

Boomchild wrote:

masque wrote:i have been around this message board since about 2007 and I have no idea who you really are but i have honestly thought at different times you must be related to ddy in some way and are bitter and are fighting for him online in this message board......it has to be that because I refuse to believe that anyone could actually be as dumb as you are as evidenced by some of your arguments in recent years. either way its a very sad testament to the kind of person you are. i'm glad I dont have to wake up everyday in your skin.

Well, if that is the case I would think that DDY would cringe. I doubt that DDY would want this kind of support and defense. He clearly has said what is important is the music they created together. The old saying of "it takes two to tango" applies here. They all had their issues and faults that led to them no longer being able to work together as they did in the past. Sooner then later it won't matter anymore. Because at their age it will start to become a parody.

perfectly said boomchild!

Ooh Ev...how long did it take you to come up with that mom? How's Wal-Mart dude?

masque wrote:and as for being a tommy bathwater guy.....let me say this for your dense brain again.

i simply like tommy's music better....his songs overall are my favorite.......i prefer his voice over dennis's voice.

I am also a guitar player and what tommy does appeals to me a bit more than what dennis does.

it's just that simple.....no bathwater.......just a preference.

I love DDY and the music he, tommy and JY made is my favorite music of all time.....so i dont dislike any of the members.

some of dennis' tunes are some of my faves and this band would not be considered my fave of all time without him.

im sorry they cant work together anymore.....i wish it werent that way but it is so i take it for what it is. some kids hate that their parents divorce but they still love both of them even if they can identify which is more to blame. I dont care who is to blame.....why does it matter to you.....just listen to their music.

in the end it's all about the music for me.....i dont care about their personalities or their private lives.....i just care about the music they created that has given me decades of enjoyment.

i think the current incarnation of styx is a great band and they do the original music justice. but i also think ddy and his current band do a good job as well. good for both of em I say.

maybe you are truly a dick or maybe you sit and laugh at all the shit you stir up toph and get off on creating a stir, but in reality the vitriol that you show towards the members of styx in regards to ddy leads me to believe that you must actually have a vested interest in the deal and are hiding behind the internet (protecting your loved one), or you're simply an ignorant dickhead that doesnt have enough of a life so you do these things to stir up trouble for your amusement.

i have been around this message board since about 2007 and I have no idea who you really are but i have honestly thought at different times you must be related to ddy in some way and are bitter and are fighting for him online in this message board......it has to be that because I refuse to believe that anyone could actually be as dumb as you are as evidenced by some of your arguments in recent years. either way its a very sad testament to the kind of person you are. i'm glad I dont have to wake up everyday in your skin.

Love how I get accused of the vitriol by you and Boomer when in fact gr8t and monker (and at times you) have been just as bad or worse that some of the shit you throw at DDY.

And to set the record straight - I have nothing to do with DDY or his family. I have never met the man. All I know is that he got a royal screw job by TS and JY.

If Styx and DDY were playing on the same night in my hometown and I had a choice as to whom I would rather go see that night I'd pick DDY.

I don't mean that as disrespect to Styx as they are right now because they are a damn good band live right now. I just prefer DDYs voice over Larry's voice. As a fan of the band I also like the setlist DDY seemingly performs better than Styx.


On a side note I do think it's a damn shame that Shaw/JY have basically run Styx creativity into the ground by not recording new material in recent years. Cyclorama even though it didn't chart very well was a damn good album and I would've loved to have seen a follow up. Instead all the band has put out was a shitty covers album and what is it like 3-4 new songs since Cyclorama that haven't been very good.

I wish Froy was still around to weigh in on this subject, I miss his posts.

Toph wrote:Love how I get accused of the vitriol by you and Boomer when in fact gr8t and monker (and at times you) have been just as bad or worse that some of the shit you throw at DDY.

And to set the record straight - I have nothing to do with DDY or his family. I have never met the man. All I know is that he got a royal screw job by TS and JY.

Sure vitriol has been thrown at both sides here. At times it seems to me that some of it is just done to get a rise and reaction from those with the opposing opinion or viewpoint. I just think your painting with a broad brush when you say that since the band is no longer the way it was that TS and JY suck at what they do. That just is not the case. They may not be doing what you or some others feel they should be doing but that in no way proves that they totally suck. As far as DDY getting the royal screw job, I agree that the way they handled things was bad. Hence the reason DDY brought the lawsuit. They should have handled it from a legal stand point from the get go. I would also say that to think that DDY did not play a part in what led to the turmoil within the band is being short sighted. Their are no totally innocent victims here.

Toph wrote:

masque wrote:and as for being a tommy bathwater guy.....let me say this for your dense brain again.

i simply like tommy's music better....his songs overall are my favorite.......i prefer his voice over dennis's voice.

I am also a guitar player and what tommy does appeals to me a bit more than what dennis does.

it's just that simple.....no bathwater.......just a preference.

I love DDY and the music he, tommy and JY made is my favorite music of all time.....so i dont dislike any of the members.

some of dennis' tunes are some of my faves and this band would not be considered my fave of all time without him.

im sorry they cant work together anymore.....i wish it werent that way but it is so i take it for what it is. some kids hate that their parents divorce but they still love both of them even if they can identify which is more to blame. I dont care who is to blame.....why does it matter to you.....just listen to their music.

in the end it's all about the music for me.....i dont care about their personalities or their private lives.....i just care about the music they created that has given me decades of enjoyment.

i think the current incarnation of styx is a great band and they do the original music justice. but i also think ddy and his current band do a good job as well. good for both of em I say.

maybe you are truly a dick or maybe you sit and laugh at all the shit you stir up toph and get off on creating a stir, but in reality the vitriol that you show towards the members of styx in regards to ddy leads me to believe that you must actually have a vested interest in the deal and are hiding behind the internet (protecting your loved one), or you're simply an ignorant dickhead that doesnt have enough of a life so you do these things to stir up trouble for your amusement.

i have been around this message board since about 2007 and I have no idea who you really are but i have honestly thought at different times you must be related to ddy in some way and are bitter and are fighting for him online in this message board......it has to be that because I refuse to believe that anyone could actually be as dumb as you are as evidenced by some of your arguments in recent years. either way its a very sad testament to the kind of person you are. i'm glad I dont have to wake up everyday in your skin.

Love how I get accused of the vitriol by you and Boomer when in fact gr8t and monker (and at times you) have been just as bad or worse that some of the shit you throw at DDY.

And to set the record straight - I have nothing to do with DDY or his family. I have never met the man. All I know is that he got a royal screw job by TS and JY.

show me the posts where you claim i throw vitriol at ddy? i have stated over and over again that I love the man and his music…..styx would not have even been what they were without him. i just simply prefer tommy and sometimes JY's stuff over his (at least great white hope and put me on)…….to this day I wish they were still together.

the only negatives I ever recall saying about dennis is that I wished he take more of an effort to not look like a 100 year old grandpa and i have mentioned that he is a super cheesy performer……i think wee can all agree that he throws on the cheese a lot…….no vitriol.

you on the other hand act like you would do bodily harm to JY and tommy if you could get to them……and i have never understood it……..why? they are just a fucking band……..they play music….nothing they do affects your income or future…….it's just simply a rock band……if you don't like what any of them are doing now then go listen to pieces of eight and try not to think about the personal issues between them or how big the shed was that they just played.

masque wrote:the only negatives I ever recall saying about dennis is that I wished he take more of an effort to not look like a 100 year old grandpa and i have mentioned that he is a super cheesy performer……i think wee can all agree that he throws on the cheese a lot…….no vitriol.

So what are you expecting him to do when it comes to his looks? Dye his hair wear some hipster clothing or what? In my opinion, I'd rather see him be real and himself. Meaning not trying to hide his age. I think when artists do that it's so obvious and I don't take them as seriously. When artists start to do those things to me it just shows how shallow they are. I think the 100 year old grandpa thing is a stretch. He's 67 and in my opinion seems to look pretty good and in shape for his age. I remember when he was dying his hair especially in the late nineties. It was so obvious I was glad he stopped. When I go to see someone perform, I am there to enjoy the musical performance. No to take in what they look like or are wearing. It's about the music. This is one of the big issues with the music today. It's more about looks then musical talent. Image above substance.

[quote="LtVanish"]I wish Froy was still around to weigh in on this subject, I miss his posts. [/quote]


Who's Froy??????