MR

forget what radio wants or casual fans etc.........just list the one song or more if you feel the need that you think should have been a monster hit for the band or that you personally wish had been a huge hit for the band and I understand that some listed may have actually charted a bit but didnt make it into the top ten or so is what I am talking about;


for me i will go with;

1) lights
2) mademoiselle
3) borrowed time
4) rockin the paradise
5) havnt we been here before
6) crystal ball

She cares

masque wrote:forget what radio wants or casual fans etc.........just list the one song or more if you feel the need that you think should have been a monster hit for the band or that you personally wish had been a huge hit for the band and I understand that some listed may have actually charted a bit but didnt make it into the top ten or so is what I am talking about;


for me i will go with;

1) lights
2) mademoiselle
3) borrowed time
4) rockin the paradise
5) havnt we been here before
6) crystal ball

Love ALL of these - and 100% agree with you on them. Many were good enough to have been a "hit"

A few more...

Pieces of Eight
Nothing Ever Goes As Planned
All In A Day's Work
Never Say Never
Man In The Wilderness

Paradise, On My Way and Roseland would have been FOR SURE HUGE HUGE hits had they been released back in the 1977 thru1983 time period that Styx somewhat dominated.

Toph wrote:

masque wrote:forget what radio wants or casual fans etc.........just list the one song or more if you feel the need that you think should have been a monster hit for the band or that you personally wish had been a huge hit for the band and I understand that some listed may have actually charted a bit but didnt make it into the top ten or so is what I am talking about;


for me i will go with;

1) lights
2) mademoiselle
3) borrowed time
4) rockin the paradise
5) havnt we been here before
6) crystal ball

Love ALL of these - and 100% agree with you on them. Many were good enough to have been a "hit"

A few more...

Pieces of Eight
Nothing Ever Goes As Planned
All In A Day's Work
Never Say Never
Man In The Wilderness

VERY cool to see nothing ever goes as planned make your list……i should have put it on mine but i was afraid it was getting too long…….to me that song is fantastic….great lyrics and just real catchy to me……..a super underrated dennis song for sure.

"ill strut around the stage like a little king………tonight!!!!!!" always loved that shit!

For me "Unfinished Song". A beautiful and dismissed ballad. This song should have been re-recorded by A&M records (because of original copyrights of WN) and included into Equinox LP.

Kilroy1983 wrote:For me "Unfinished Song". A beautiful and dismissed ballad. This song should have been re-recorded by A&M records (because of original copyrights of WN) and included into Equinox LP.

Nicely played, Kilroy.

At a minimum, Dennis could have recorded it on a solo album. Great, underrated song that was a sign of the Styx sound that would come in the late 70s and 80s.

masque wrote:

Toph wrote:

masque wrote:forget what radio wants or casual fans etc.........just list the one song or more if you feel the need that you think should have been a monster hit for the band or that you personally wish had been a huge hit for the band and I understand that some listed may have actually charted a bit but didnt make it into the top ten or so is what I am talking about;


for me i will go with;

1) lights
2) mademoiselle
3) borrowed time
4) rockin the paradise
5) havnt we been here before
6) crystal ball

Love ALL of these - and 100% agree with you on them. Many were good enough to have been a "hit"

A few more...

Pieces of Eight
Nothing Ever Goes As Planned
All In A Day's Work
Never Say Never
Man In The Wilderness

VERY cool to see nothing ever goes as planned make your list……i should have put it on mine but i was afraid it was getting too long…….to me that song is fantastic….great lyrics and just real catchy to me……..a super underrated dennis song for sure.

"ill strut around the stage like a little king………tonight!!!!!!" always loved that shit!

That first side of Paradise Theatre is like "Butter!" (Mike Myers Coffee Talk character on SNL). Almost the perfect album side.

I really like Nothing Ever Goes As Planned now, but back then as a 17 yr old I didn't like it at all. Same with Lonely People.

[/quote]

That first side of Paradise Theatre is like "Butter!" (Mike Myers Coffee Talk character on SNL). Almost the perfect album side.[/quote]

agreed!!!!!!!!!!!!

Toph wrote:

Kilroy1983 wrote:For me "Unfinished Song". A beautiful and dismissed ballad. This song should have been re-recorded by A&M records (because of original copyrights of WN) and included into Equinox LP.

Nicely played, Kilroy.

At a minimum, Dennis could have recorded it on a solo album. Great, underrated song that was a sign of the Styx sound that would come in the late 70s and 80s.

i have always loved that song as well!

I wish "Stairway to Heaven" was a hit because then all of those people who use charts and single sales to argue about how good or bad a song is would actually have a bit of a point.

Monker wrote:I wish "Stairway to Heaven" was a hit because then all of those people who use charts and single sales to argue about how good or bad a song is would actually have a bit of a point.

Overrated song

Toph wrote:

Monker wrote:I wish "Stairway to Heaven" was a hit because then all of those people who use charts and single sales to argue about how good or bad a song is would actually have a bit of a point.

Overrated song

Exactly...most songs that hit the top 40 are VERY over rated. So, it shouldn't matter.

Monker wrote:

Toph wrote:

Monker wrote:I wish "Stairway to Heaven" was a hit because then all of those people who use charts and single sales to argue about how good or bad a song is would actually have a bit of a point.

Overrated song

Exactly...most songs that hit the top 40 are VERY over rated. So, it shouldn't matter.

Top 40 hits define a band by most listeners. They are the songs that are known by the culture. So as much as it pisses you off, Styx is known by Babe and Roboto and Best of Times and Don't Let It End and Show Me the Way as much or more than Blue Collar Man.

On the solo side of the isle I always felt that JY's 'Toys For American Boys' had the moxie to become a huge hit.

Tommy's 'This Is Not A Test' and DDY's 'Please' also had the gitty up with the proper backing to be top 10's.

Please tell me what top 40 songs "defined" Led Zeppelin.

Whole Lotta Love, Black Dog & Immigrant Song were all top 20.

Advantage Toph, but Monker has the serve and Toph has yet to break Monker's serve!

Monker wrote:Please tell me what top 40 songs "defined" Led Zeppelin.

Hardly the same genre as Styx. Want to trot out Iron Maiden next as the comparison?

Let's go back to reality.

Tell me what Journey is defined by: I'll show you a list of their top 40 hits.

Tell me what Foreigner is defined by: I'll show you a list of their top 40 hits.

REO, Billy Joel, Boston, Kansas, Queen, we can go "on and on and on and on".....Journey, Don't Stop Believin' - peak #9, 1981

Tell me in three words or less what Styx' "genre' is.

Toph wrote:

Monker wrote:Please tell me what top 40 songs "defined" Led Zeppelin.

Hardly the same genre as Styx. Want to trot out Iron Maiden next as the comparison?

Let's go back to reality.

Tell me what Journey is defined by: I'll show you a list of their top 40 hits.

Tell me what Foreigner is defined by: I'll show you a list of their top 40 hits.

REO, Billy Joel, Boston, Kansas, Queen, we can go "on and on and on and on".....Journey, Don't Stop Believin' - peak #9, 1981

yogi wrote:Whole Lotta Love, Black Dog & Immigrant Song were all top 20.

Advantage Toph, but Monker has the serve and Toph has yet to break Monker's serve!

First,I didn't think Zep had singles,and therefore no hits.
Secondly, Don't know much about tennis,but this description sounds like the game, that will never end.

Toph wrote:Top 40 hits define a band by most listeners. They are the songs that are known by the culture. So as much as it pisses you off, Styx is known by Babe and Roboto and Best of Times and Don't Let It End and Show Me the Way as much or more than Blue Collar Man.

I would have to say it's the singles or tracks that are chosen to be played on radio that define an artist or band. Not just what hits the Billboard charts.

Boomchild wrote:

Toph wrote:Top 40 hits define a band by most listeners. They are the songs that are known by the culture. So as much as it pisses you off, Styx is known by Babe and Roboto and Best of Times and Don't Let It End and Show Me the Way as much or more than Blue Collar Man.

I would have to say it's the singles or tracks that are chosen to be played on radio that define an artist or band. Not just what hits the Billboard charts.

yes, but that "definition" is not pure.......because the songs that were chosen many times also involved record label presidents, a & r people, the album producers.....basically all the people outside the band that stood a chance to profit from a song making money.

a record label president may have thought castle walls was actually the best song on GI, but felt that a shortened version of come sail away stood to make the "business" the most money.

look, as much as I line up on the rock side of things, I can tell you that strictly from a standpoint of making money that you could tell that babe was going to be a golden goose......they were gonna be able to print their own money because of that song.

BUT, as a fan myself, that song is my second least favorite song on the album only beaten out by first time, which would have also made millions if released properly. However, if my involvement with the band was to ensure financial prosperity back in the day I too would have chosen babe to be a single. its a no brainer.

BUT you can read over and over and over again how bands were forced to release certain songs because the label wanted it as the single and the band relented.......over the years the songs that would have been released would have differed many times form what we know if the artist had always had final say.

Masque, you know for this reason alone, it seems to me like bands should have a seat at the table on these type of discussions, if not final authority. If a song is going to be a "single" then what you are signing up for is playing that song in finitum in the future ( assuming its a hit, and from 1977-1983, Styx could assume that Tommy Shaw and DDY having a fart competition, if released as the first single, would do reasonably well just based on prior success.)

Which makes the choice of Roboto even more curious. The band didn't plan that as a single, the record company's research dictated that. I'm betting the original single order thought through during the recording process was going to be DLIE, HWBHB, and then (?). 2 ballads back to back would be reminiscent of Babe/First Time, so not sure what the thinking was. As it was, record company came in and said, "Roboto is the single." Could the band push back? Or was Dennis so in love with Roboto that he aligned with the record company and pushed that through. On Edge, it was different. Record company always wanted SMTW to lead off because it had the Styx "sound" that was so radio friendly. Styx wanted a Glen more modern rock (read hair band) sounding song. So, they pushed for EOTC or Love. I think I read somewhere that Dennis wanted EOTC and JY and Glen wanted LITR, but regardless, it sounded like the band was calling the shots on that one.

I think the inner workings and inside stories as to how some songs became singles and others did not would be a fabulous book. Care to take a crack at it Sterling?

Toph wrote:Masque, you know for this reason alone, it seems to me like bands should have a seat at the table on these type of discussions, if not final authority. If a song is going to be a "single" then what you are signing up for is playing that song in finitum in the future ( assuming its a hit, and from 1977-1983, Styx could assume that Tommy Shaw and DDY having a fart competition, if released as the first single, would do reasonably well just based on prior success.)

Which makes the choice of Roboto even more curious. The band didn't plan that as a single, the record company's research dictated that. I'm betting the original single order thought through during the recording process was going to be DLIE, HWBHB, and then (?). 2 ballads back to back would be reminiscent of Babe/First Time, so not sure what the thinking was. As it was, record company came in and said, "Roboto is the single." Could the band push back? Or was Dennis so in love with Roboto that he aligned with the record company and pushed that through. On Edge, it was different. Record company always wanted SMTW to lead off because it had the Styx "sound" that was so radio friendly. Styx wanted a Glen more modern rock (read hair band) sounding song. So, they pushed for EOTC or Love. I think I read somewhere that Dennis wanted EOTC and JY and Glen wanted LITR, but regardless, it sounded like the band was calling the shots on that one.

I think the inner workings and inside stories as to how some songs became singles and others did not would be a fabulous book. Care to take a crack at it Sterling?

As a follow up to this, wonder if they worked out a deal with A&M prior to Edge to have more control on single releases? They obviously had it with CMC.

Toph wrote:Masque, you know for this reason alone, it seems to me like bands should have a seat at the table on these type of discussions, if not final authority. If a song is going to be a "single" then what you are signing up for is playing that song in finitum in the future ( assuming its a hit, and from 1977-1983, Styx could assume that Tommy Shaw and DDY having a fart competition, if released as the first single, would do reasonably well just based on prior success.)

Which makes the choice of Roboto even more curious. The band didn't plan that as a single, the record company's research dictated that. I'm betting the original single order thought through during the recording process was going to be DLIE, HWBHB, and then (?). 2 ballads back to back would be reminiscent of Babe/First Time, so not sure what the thinking was. As it was, record company came in and said, "Roboto is the single." Could the band push back? Or was Dennis so in love with Roboto that he aligned with the record company and pushed that through. On Edge, it was different. Record company always wanted SMTW to lead off because it had the Styx "sound" that was so radio friendly. Styx wanted a Glen more modern rock (read hair band) sounding song. So, they pushed for EOTC or Love. I think I read somewhere that Dennis wanted EOTC and JY and Glen wanted LITR, but regardless, it sounded like the band was calling the shots on that one.

I think the inner workings and inside stories as to how some songs became singles and others did not would be a fabulous book. Care to take a crack at it Sterling?

i agree with all of that topher……..and YES, i would freaking love to have a good honest book about the inner workings of how all of this stuff went down and how it all worked………it would be great.

i have not bought the lou gramm book, but i got to read several pages and i stumbled on his version of the meeting/argument that took place over how him and mick jones divided writing credits……typically, they would sit down at the end of making an album and both write down how the %'s of writing went for each song…..present that to each other and then negotiate the final %'s between each other.

lou claims for the most part that it usually went well or pretty fair……until "i want to know what love it" had to be figured out. lou felt that the song was pretty much co-written and mick did not……..mick thought it was 95-5 him and lou was devastated….long story short, mick gave lou more of some other songs to be able to claim 95% of the writing on i want to know what love is……..and lou claims it is one of the worst mistakes he ever made…

true or not? have no idea, but that kind of stuff is beyond fascinating to me.

would love to know all the inner workings of styx back in the day.