Just Get Through This Night

[Archetype]

It's outrageous that this song wasn't a hit, and even more ridiculous that Styx doesn't play during their concerts. I can picture it being an awesome live song.

[Baron Von Bielski]

To each his own.

[masque]

this is weird in that I agree that is a fantastic song......but total disagree about it should have been a hit and should be played live now.

if they had submitted a radio edit with it cut down enough to play on the radio it would have lost the cool beginning and ending vibe that helped make the song great.

and overall it really just sounds like a great "album" track that for sure makes the album more solid and better but it does not sound like a single to me.

[gr8dane]

Best song on the album.

[yogi]

[quote="gr8dane"]Best song on the album.[/quote]


TOTALLY agree!

[Toph]

It's outrageous that this song wasn't a hit, and even more ridiculous that Styx doesn't play during their concerts. I can picture it being an awesome live song.

Great song, but not a hit. Haven't We Been Here Before should have been the 3rd single. My Gosh, they went and even did an elaborate video. Would have hit the top 10 and kept the album rolling through the fall. Instead, Tommy smashes his hand, the tour is put on hiatus, and they release High Time without a video....the music world said, NEXT!

[masque]

good ole cocaine.

[gr8dane]

good ole cocaine.

Hehe.Kilroy on marching powder.

[Boomchild]

Great song, but not a hit. Haven't We Been Here Before should have been the 3rd single. My Gosh, they went and even did an elaborate video. Would have hit the top 10 and kept the album rolling through the fall. Instead, Tommy smashes his hand, the tour is put on hiatus, and they release High Time without a video....the music world said, NEXT!

Dennis should have realized then as he seems to now that it was a bad idea to push the band into a project that he was the only one really interested in doing. You can speculate this and that but the project was doomed from the start.

[Toph]

Great song, but not a hit. Haven't We Been Here Before should have been the 3rd single. My Gosh, they went and even did an elaborate video. Would have hit the top 10 and kept the album rolling through the fall. Instead, Tommy smashes his hand, the tour is put on hiatus, and they release High Time without a video....the music world said, NEXT!

Dennis should have realized then as he seems to now that it was a bad idea to push the band into a project that he was the only one really interested in doing. You can speculate this and that but the project was doomed from the start.

That's right, Boom. So it excuses Tommy's behavior in your book. Its all Dennis's fault! That's right! I keep forgetting that...Tommy can personally kill a tour and an album with stupid behavior because he was "self medicating" because poor evil Dennis made him do that album. Poor baby....

And this is what is wrong with our country today...

[Monker]

Great song, but not a hit. Haven't We Been Here Before should have been the 3rd single. My Gosh, they went and even did an elaborate video. Would have hit the top 10 and kept the album rolling through the fall. Instead, Tommy smashes his hand, the tour is put on hiatus, and they release High Time without a video....the music world said, NEXT!

Dennis should have realized then as he seems to now that it was a bad idea to push the band into a project that he was the only one really interested in doing. You can speculate this and that but the project was doomed from the start.

That's right, Boom. So it excuses Tommy's behavior in your book. Its all Dennis's fault! That's right! I keep forgetting that...Tommy can personally kill a tour and an album with stupid behavior because he was "self medicating" because poor evil Dennis made him do that album. Poor baby....

And this is what is wrong with our country today...

And, from Tommy's perspective, the album and tour exacerbated the issues that had already been in the band dating all the way back to Paradise Theater. No, it doesn't excuse Tommy's behavior. But, Dennis should have known the band as a whole was suffering because of his attitude. Instead of learning his lesson after being fired briefly, he tightened his grip on the band, pushed even harder for his ideas.

How can you not see that at that point Tommy really had nothing to lose by leaving the band? He had no reason to want to be there, except to get a paycheck. If he hated being there so much that he had to numb himself with drugs and alcohol, then the best decision to make is to leave. Putting his hand through a window may have saved his life for all we know.

You go through all of these weird alternate histories and make shit up. During that entire fictional alternate timeline, Tommy may have stayed on the drugs and ended up dead halfway through.

[Boomchild]

That's right, Boom. So it excuses Tommy's behavior in your book. Its all Dennis's fault! That's right! I keep forgetting that...Tommy can personally kill a tour and an album with stupid behavior because he was "self medicating" because poor evil Dennis made him do that album. Poor baby....

And this is what is wrong with our country today...

The more I read your replies to my posts the more it tells me that you can only look at situations from a narrow or simplistic point of view. You think because I agree with DDY that it was not the right decision to push for the Kilroy project at that time that I excuse TS' actions. Well using your simple logic, since DDY HIMSELF has said it was a mistake to push the project on the rest of the band, he too must be making excuses for TS' actions. Dennis pushing for Kilroy doesn't make him evil. It just means he made a bad judgement. Yes, DDY made them do the project, he stated so himself. If you don't agree with that then I suggest you take it up with the man himself. What you keep forgetting is that DDY himself bares some responsibility for the band's difficulties during that period.

[Boomchild]

If he hated being there so much that he had to numb himself with drugs and alcohol, then the best decision to make is to leave.

To me I look at TS' comments about linking his drug and alcohol abuse to Kilroy a cop out. Clearly by other accounts his drug and alcohol usage dates a lot further back then that time frame. But it is typical for addicts to use something other then themselves to pin their addictions on.

[Toph]

And, from Tommy's perspective, the album and tour exacerbated the issues that had already been in the band dating all the way back to Paradise Theater. No, it doesn't excuse Tommy's behavior. But, Dennis should have known the band as a whole was suffering because of his attitude. Instead of learning his lesson after being fired briefly, he tightened his grip on the band, pushed even harder for his ideas.

How can you not see that at that point Tommy really had nothing to lose by leaving the band? He had no reason to want to be there, except to get a paycheck. If he hated being there so much that he had to numb himself with drugs and alcohol, then the best decision to make is to leave. Putting his hand through a window may have saved his life for all we know.

You go through all of these weird alternate histories and make shit up. During that entire fictional alternate timeline, Tommy may have stayed on the drugs and ended up dead halfway through.

I make shit up?!? You are the king of making shit up MonkeyBoy. Its why you got kicked off the Journey board for a while. Remember that? I do... Like to just remind you and everyone of that little fact - that you are often full of shit.

And oh, by the way, Paradise Theatre was really a "suffering" as you put it.....talking about making shit up. First #1 album. Top grossing global tour. Two top 10 singles. Yeah, that really sucked.....wouldn't want to repeat that, now would you?

[Toph]

That's right, Boom. So it excuses Tommy's behavior in your book. Its all Dennis's fault! That's right! I keep forgetting that...Tommy can personally kill a tour and an album with stupid behavior because he was "self medicating" because poor evil Dennis made him do that album. Poor baby....

And this is what is wrong with our country today...

The more I read your replies to my posts the more it tells me that you can only look at situations from a narrow or simplistic point of view. You think because I agree with DDY that it was not the right decision to push for the Kilroy project at that time that I excuse TS' actions. Well using your simple logic, since DDY HIMSELF has said it was a mistake to push the project on the rest of the band, he too must be making excuses for TS' actions. Dennis pushing for Kilroy doesn't make him evil. It just means he made a bad judgement. Yes, DDY made them do the project, he stated so himself. If you don't agree with that then I suggest you take it up with the man himself. What you keep forgetting is that DDY himself bares some responsibility for the band's difficulties during that period.

Not saying he doesn't, but you implying somewhat that Tommy's behavior is somewhat excusable because he wasn't being forced to do something against his will (Kilroy). Tommy could have manned up and explained what was going on and to discuss how they might deal with it. Instead he took the immature way out.

[Monker]

I make shit up?!?

Yes, you absolutely do. You go about saying if this would have happened, then this would have happened, and then that would have happened. Therefore, it's Tommy's fault that none of those things happened. It's bullshit, fiction. The fact is, Kilroy died. Cornerstone died. That is reality. What you constantly say is made up alternate reality fiction in order to change those facts.

You are the king of making shit up MonkeyBoy. Its why you got kicked off the Journey board for a while. Remember that? I do... Like to just remind you and everyone of that little fact - that you are often full of shit.

Wow, if you are going to say something like the above, you should at least know what you are talking about. That is NOT why I got kicked off the forum for 12hrs, or whatever it was. You DON'T know what you are talking about. Only Andrew and I know the details of that...anybody else who comments on it is simply making shit up.

And oh, by the way, Paradise Theatre was really a "suffering" as you put it.....talking about making shit up. First #1 album. Top grossing global tour. Two top 10 singles. Yeah, that really sucked.....wouldn't want to repeat that, now would you?

Dude, money doesn't equate to happiness. They fired DDY and then took him back and he tightened his grip on the band with even more control with PT, and then into Kilroy. You can keep making excuses for DuDY but forcing Kilroy on the band was too much, even DDY admits that.

You don't trust DDY at all. You disagree wiith him about why Tommy wasn't on EotC. You disagree with him about pushing Kirloy being a mistake.

[Monker]

If he hated being there so much that he had to numb himself with drugs and alcohol, then the best decision to make is to leave.

To me I look at TS' comments about linking his drug and alcohol abuse to Kilroy a cop out. Clearly by other accounts his drug and alcohol usage dates a lot further back then that time frame. But it is typical for addicts to use something other then themselves to pin their addictions on.

What I have read did not sound to me like Tommy was "making excuses", but simply telling it like it was back then. He absolutely admitted that he was an addict and had an issue. The part you and others don't seem to like is him saying that at that point in Styx, it took a bad situation with his addiction and made it worse.

BTW, if he DIDN'T take responsibility for his own issues, he would still be blaming everybody else, and he would still be an addict.

If there is some interview where Tommy blames DDY for his addiction, I'd like to read the full interview - because I've never seen it.

[Boomchild]

Not saying he doesn't, but you implying somewhat that Tommy's behavior is somewhat excusable because he wasn't being forced to do something against his will (Kilroy). Tommy could have manned up and explained what was going on and to discuss how they might deal with it. Instead he took the immature way out.

I am implying no such thing. You are reading into to something that isn't there. Mainly due to the fact that you cannot comprehend that just because someone doesn't agree with who you want to blame for the bands problems must then be excusing that persons entire actions. That just isn't so. BTW, Tommy did express that he did not want to get into doing yet another concept album at that time. Derrick Sutton commented about that in the BTM program. I'm sure that Dennis was well aware that the others were not so keen on the KWH project for various reasons. By reading and listening to DDY's comments about KWH it's clear to me that he is taking the blame for the issues in the band that project caused. If that is good enough for him it should be good enough for you. Why? Because it's actually what happened. Get over it and move on.

[Boomchild]

BTW, if he DIDN'T take responsibility for his own issues, he would still be blaming everybody else, and he would still be an addict.

If there is some interview where Tommy blames DDY for his addiction, I'd like to read the full interview - because I've never seen it.

Lots of recovered addicts still blame someone or something else as the reason for their substance abuse. I not saying that TS blames DDY personally but the Kilroy project itself. All of this doesn't really matter anyway because as we all know no one can force someone to use and abuse a substance.

[Toph]

[quote="Monker"]

Yes, you absolutely do. You go about saying if this would have happened, then this would have happened, and then that would have happened. Therefore, it's Tommy's fault that none of those things happened. It's bullshit, fiction. The fact is, Kilroy died. Cornerstone died. That is reality. What you constantly say is made up alternate reality fiction in order to change those facts.

[quote]


Please show me how Cornerstone "died"? Cornerstone was 3x platinum, was the only Styx album nominated for a Grammy Award, and was their biggest selling international album. I'm only saying "What if?" What if Tommy hadn't been so immature and those albums had been led to reach their optimal heights?

The band would kill for the success of those albums today. Hell, they would have killed for the success of those albums starting in 1984....

[yogi]

' 20/20 hindsight by Tommy, JY and management this is my take on Kilroy': If they would NOT have lost soooo much money on it at what could have been the height of their popularity than we would have never heard about their displeasure in the project.

Like so many things with so many people it ended up being about money. You can argue all you want about it, but Dennis was the creative force in the band. When his ideas made them all a ton of $$$$ no one really bitched. Ya they kicked him out for a brief time( which at the time NONE of us knew about it) but when they figured out they would damn near fold without him. I'm sure they then looked at their bank accounts and swallowed their pride knowing how much they stood to lose and welcomed him back like the rich uncle( with no family) he was for them.

Then once Kilroy flopped financially by taking it into small venues that's when everyones displeasure surfaced publically.

If Kilroy would have made the same money as Paradise Theratre did Tommy would of had that much more coke JY etc would have had that much more money and nothing would have really of been said. You can also argue that with a $$$$ successful Kilroy, Tommy would of had with even more money to spend on drugs and he could have really gone off the deep end.

Kilroys financial failure might have save Tommy's life.

This is my take on the topic. Now please do your best to rip it apart.

[Baron Von Bielski]

All I can say is I wish Kilroy never happened.

[Monker]

Yes, you absolutely do. You go about saying if this would have happened, then this would have happened, and then that would have happened. Therefore, it's Tommy's fault that none of those things happened. It's bullshit, fiction. The fact is, Kilroy died. Cornerstone died. That is reality. What you constantly say is made up alternate reality fiction in order to change those facts.

Please show me how Cornerstone "died"? Cornerstone was 3x platinum, was the only Styx album nominated for a Grammy Award, and was their biggest selling international album.

And, YOU make the constant argument, "which could have even been bigger if they had only released 'First Time'."

I'm only saying "What if?" What if Tommy hadn't been so immature and those albums had been led to reach their optimal heights?

And, you make up entire fictional alternate histories. AKA bullshit.

The simple truth is that you don't know if Styx DID reach their ultimate heights...which, IMO, they probably did and there is no way of knowing if they didn't.

But, IMO, that's not why you do it. You do it because you read interviews where the band rags on Dennis. You read it here, too. So, to compensate, you redirect your anger to blame other members of the band. Tommy's "immature", JY is an asshole, Gowan can't sing. Ricky is just a hired hand. Anything to return the insults you feel Dennis has to endure.

If you REALLY cared about Styx reaching their potential, you wouldn't need to wrap Tommy's addiction issues and what you perceive as Tommy's immaturity around the conversation. THAT is the 'real' focus on this...your need to insult Tommy....not the potential Styx had back then.

The band would kill for the success of those albums today. Hell, they would have killed for the success of those albums starting in 1984....

[/quote][/quote]

ANY band of Styx' era would love to have even a platinum album. That was such a pointless comment that you made.. No need to act jealous that Styx has released Cyclorama, BBT, the CYO live DVD, the GI/Po8 DVD, rerecorded the GH, and a few other new songs along the way. I know your comment was meant as a backhanded attempt at an insult regarding sales...but in the end it doesn't really matter. I'm happy they recorded all of that stuff, regardless of how it sold.

[Baron Von Bielski]

The major problem around here is ones rush to insult DDY and blame him for everything ever wrong with Styx and also ones rush to insult Tommy and blame him. Both en have admitted to their faults. They are many people in this world that are control freaks. There are worse things to be. And many battle with addiction. It is not a weakness. It's a curse. Point is without both of them Styx wouldn't have grown into the arena headliner they did. But they may have been semi-successful even without Tommy. I mean look at Equinox, but I doubt they would have achieved nothing more than a couple of gold records mid level stardom. However the Styx camp (Tommy/ JY) to this day barely give Dennis any credit where he's due and seem to change history. At least DDY is generous with his praise. That much is true. Unfortunately it will never change here or there.

[Boomchild]

The major problem around here is ones rush to insult DDY and blame him for everything ever wrong with Styx and also ones rush to insult Tommy and blame him. Both en have admitted to their faults. They are many people in this world that are control freaks. There are worse things to be. And many battle with addiction. It is not a weakness. It's a curse. Point is without both of them Styx wouldn't have grown into the arena headliner they did. But they may have been semi-successful even without Tommy. I mean look at Equinox, but I doubt they would have achieved nothing more than a couple of gold records mid level stardom. However the Styx camp (Tommy/ JY) to this day barely give Dennis any credit where he's due and seem to change history. At least DDY is generous with his praise. That much is true. Unfortunately it will never change here or there.

That's the point I think people need to realize. That they all are human beings and therefore have faults and quirks that led to instability in the band. No one is\was a innocent victim. I too feel that they don't or attempt to play down credit that DDY deserves. Some will say it 's because of terms in the lawsuit settlement or that they they are just trying to focus and promote the current incarnation of Styx. I am not so sure those are the main reasons.

[Toph]

Please show me how Cornerstone "died"? Cornerstone was 3x platinum, was the only Styx album nominated for a Grammy Award, and was their biggest selling international album.

And, YOU make the constant argument, "which could have even been bigger if they had only released 'First Time'."

Uh, what's wrong with speculation? And you know I'm right. Cornerstone would have been 5x platinum had they released First Time, that song was already trending big time by some major radio stations that starting to play it before it was even released. Instead you got Why M

I'm only saying "What if?" What if Tommy hadn't been so immature and those albums had been led to reach their optimal heights?

And, you make up entire fictional alternate histories. AKA bullshit.

The simple truth is that you don't know if Styx DID reach their ultimate heights...which, IMO, they probably did and there is no way of knowing if they didn't.

But, IMO, that's not why you do it. You do it because you read interviews where the band rags on Dennis. You read it here, too. So, to compensate, you redirect your anger to blame other members of the band. Tommy's "immature", JY is an asshole, Gowan can't sing. Ricky is just a hired hand. Anything to return the insults you feel Dennis has to endure.

If you REALLY cared about Styx reaching their potential, you wouldn't need to wrap Tommy's addiction issues and what you perceive as Tommy's immaturity around the conversation. THAT is the 'real' focus on this...your need to insult Tommy....not the potential Styx had back then.
-----
So what you are saying is ok for you and the band to rag on DDY, but God forbid anyone point out the flaws of your hero, tommy Shaw. Have you ever said anything critical about him? Talk about being a bathwater drinker. You seem to constantly point out DDY's flaws and excuse Tommy Shaw's and JYs.

[Boomchild]

Uh, what's wrong with speculation? And you know I'm right. Cornerstone would have been 5x platinum had they released First Time, that song was already trending big time by some major radio stations that starting to play it before it was even released. Instead you got Why M

I don't think it's about the speculation itself. It's about how you use that speculation to bash members of the band. You seem to think the fictional events actually would have occurred if a certain band member did or didn't do something. Speaking of FT, Dennis already knew that the other members were concerned about even releasing a straight ballad (Babe). So in my opinion he should have not tried to push the envelope with using FT as follow up. Personally I don't have anything really against the song. But, I could see where it would concern other band members that using it as a follow up to Babe could change the image of the band. Just because something would be the "right" business decision doesn't mean it's best decision for the relationships between band members.

[Monker]

Uh, what's wrong with speculation?

It's not just speculation. As Boomchild said, you surround it with Tommy being an addict or Tommy being immature or whatever.

You also do not just "speculate", you state these things as fact, see quote below.

And you know I'm right. Cornerstone would have been 5x platinum had they released First Time, that song was already trending big time by some major radio stations that starting to play it before it was even released. Instead you got Why Me

No, I don't think you are right. I think you are just repeating things that DDY has said from his very biased perspective. I think PT had run its course and whatever was released as the last single really would not have mattered at all. Both "Why Me" and "First Time" are pretty much forgotten songs of Styx past among the masses and I do not believe either could sell millions copies of an album.

So what you are saying is ok for you and the band to rag on DDY, but God forbid anyone point out the flaws of your hero, tommy Shaw. Have you ever said anything critical about him? Talk about being a bathwater drinker. You seem to constantly point out DDY's flaws and excuse Tommy Shaw's and JYs.

What I am saying is you care too much about what people say about DDY. Have I gone all ballistic about Tommy being an addict? Have I defended his right to put his own hand through glass? In the big picture, it really doesn't matter what you think of those specific incidents. But, to say an entire history would change for the better is taking things into some kinda weird fantasy. I could write an entire fictional history about DDY shaving his head bald...it would have reflected some of the stage lighting, he would have got his vampire complex, and he could have toured for BNW and still be in the band. But, it really doesn't matter because he didn't shave his head, he did get his sun allergy, and he did get fired. That's how things went, and I can deal with it just fine.

When Tommy went into DY and Glen replaced him. I didn't go on these forums for years arguing about how much Styx sucks because Tommy wasn't there, or go on writing alternate histories of how things would have been better if Dennis would have been able to get the band together a few months earlier. I accepted how things were without all of the bullshit.

[Toph]

Uh, what's wrong with speculation? And you know I'm right. Cornerstone would have been 5x platinum had they released First Time, that song was already trending big time by some major radio stations that starting to play it before it was even released. Instead you got Why M

I don't think it's about the speculation itself. It's about how you use that speculation to bash members of the band. You seem to think the fictional events actually would have occurred if a certain band member did or didn't do something. Speaking of FT, Dennis already knew that the other members were concerned about even releasing a straight ballad (Babe). So in my opinion he should have not tried to push the envelope with using FT as follow up. Personally I don't have anything really against the song. But, I could see where it would concern other band members that using it as a follow up to Babe could change the image of the band. Just because something would be the "right" business decision doesn't mean it's best decision for the relationships between band members.

You'd be more credible in two ways - 1) If you weren't such a flip flopper and 2) If you actually got your facts right. 't wasn't Dennis that wanted to release it - it was the record company. I'm sure Dennis didn't have an issue with it since it was his song, but A&M wanted to release First Time as a single.

[Toph]

Monkey - We'll just have to disagree then. I think you are high as a kite if you don't think that a good single following a #1 single would have just "faded away." The album was ripe to be huge.