MR

This is a MUST read for all Styx Fans!

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi ... 96-992146/

Here's the article:

Flashback: Styx Perform a Soaring ‘Come Sail Away’ in 1996
Three years after this performance, Styx threw Dennis DeYoung out of the band and have since ignored all his pleas to be let back in

By ANDY GREENE

Two weeks ago, Styx founder Dennis DeYoung posted a solo rendition of the band’s 1981 hit “Best of Times” onto YouTube that he recorded in his house. Much to his amazement, it quickly racked up 847,000 views and inspired him to post another song (the band’s 1990 tune “Show Me the Way”) and start his own YouTube channel. “Thank you for everything you’ve done with the ‘Best of Times’ video,” he said. “I can’t believe it. I’ve read all the comments.” (There’s 6,015 of those and climbing.)

The success of the video proves that there’s still a lot love out in the world for DeYoung even though his own band kicked him out 21 years ago and have refused all of his pleas to let him back in. They point to personality clashes on their reunion tours in 1996 and 1997 along with lingering bitterness over the group’s 1983 concept album Kilroy Was Here. “It cut our album sales in half because the male audience was absolutely alienated by ‘Mr. Roboto,’” Styx guitarist J.Y. Young said in 2019. “Not all of them but a large chunk.”


They’ve toured heavily these past two decades with replacement vocalist-keyboardist Lawrence Gowan while DeYoung has played the band’s music at solo shows. “I’m not even in the band I made famous,” he told Rolling Stone earlier this year. “I don’t want to sound like a whiner. I have moved on.”

Many fans have not moved on and continue to hope the group will let him back in at some point. To see what that might look like, here’s video of the band playing “Come Sail Away” on the 1996 Return to Paradise reunion tour. This is before South Park and Freaks and Geeks brought the song back into the public consciousness, but it still gets the entire amphitheater joyfully swaying and singing along.

With all due respect to Lawrence Gowan, who is a fine singer, it’s just not the same when they play it these days. Like so many Styx classics, DeYoung wrote the song and sang it on the record. Not letting him back for one more tour feels almost cruel at this point. They haven’t spoken in 20 years, but when we recently asked DeYoung what he’d like to say to them. “‘Let’s get together and give the fans one more run at this thing and then I’ll ride off into the sunset,'” he said. “‘You’ll keep doing your Styx thing and using the name. I don’t care. I want it one more time for our fans.'”

Gentlemen of Styx, Dennis has put the ball firmly in your court here. What do you say? Will you try the best that you can to carry on as you are? Or will you think of childhood friends and the dreams you had and let him back in? Together you can once again search for tomorrow on every shore.

OH, please, not this again. How often does Styx have to turn him down before he and people like you, Toph, froy, etc understand that Styx simply isn't this band any longer, they don't want to be and are happy NOT being part of DDY's universe.

That's why I fucking hate his album cover and haven't even talked about his latest songs. He's OBSESSED with a Styx reunion that they have consistently and constantly said no to. He says he has let it go but his ego still lets him say "the band I made famous"...as if nobody else matters, nobody else had significant ideas, nobody else was a popular member of Styx. And, yes, he IS a whiner...get over yourself, and get over Styx. Understand that one of the reasons you are not in the band is because you acted like an arrogant asshole, and you are not exactly acting humble by saying things like YOU made the band famous.

What part of "No" does he and his fans not understand?

SuiteMadameBlue wrote:Here's the article:

Flashback: Styx Perform a Soaring ‘Come Sail Away’ in 1996
Three years after this performance, Styx threw Dennis DeYoung out of the band and have since ignored all his pleas to be let back in

By ANDY GREENE

Two weeks ago, Styx founder Dennis DeYoung posted a solo rendition of the band’s 1981 hit “Best of Times” onto YouTube that he recorded in his house. Much to his amazement, it quickly racked up 847,000 views and inspired him to post another song (the band’s 1990 tune “Show Me the Way”) and start his own YouTube channel. “Thank you for everything you’ve done with the ‘Best of Times’ video,” he said. “I can’t believe it. I’ve read all the comments.” (There’s 6,015 of those and climbing.)

The success of the video proves that there’s still a lot love out in the world for DeYoung even though his own band kicked him out 21 years ago and have refused all of his pleas to let him back in. They point to personality clashes on their reunion tours in 1996 and 1997 along with lingering bitterness over the group’s 1983 concept album Kilroy Was Here. “It cut our album sales in half because the male audience was absolutely alienated by ‘Mr. Roboto,’” Styx guitarist J.Y. Young said in 2019. “Not all of them but a large chunk.”


They’ve toured heavily these past two decades with replacement vocalist-keyboardist Lawrence Gowan while DeYoung has played the band’s music at solo shows. “I’m not even in the band I made famous,” he told Rolling Stone earlier this year. “I don’t want to sound like a whiner. I have moved on.”

Many fans have not moved on and continue to hope the group will let him back in at some point. To see what that might look like, here’s video of the band playing “Come Sail Away” on the 1996 Return to Paradise reunion tour. This is before South Park and Freaks and Geeks brought the song back into the public consciousness, but it still gets the entire amphitheater joyfully swaying and singing along.

With all due respect to Lawrence Gowan, who is a fine singer, it’s just not the same when they play it these days. Like so many Styx classics, DeYoung wrote the song and sang it on the record. Not letting him back for one more tour feels almost cruel at this point. They haven’t spoken in 20 years, but when we recently asked DeYoung what he’d like to say to them. “‘Let’s get together and give the fans one more run at this thing and then I’ll ride off into the sunset,'” he said. “‘You’ll keep doing your Styx thing and using the name. I don’t care. I want it one more time for our fans.'”

Gentlemen of Styx, Dennis has put the ball firmly in your court here. What do you say? Will you try the best that you can to carry on as you are? Or will you think of childhood friends and the dreams you had and let him back in? Together you can once again search for tomorrow on every shore.

Monker,

Rolling Stone wrote the article. You obviously didn't read the bottom of the article

"Gentlemen of Styx, Dennis has put the ball firmly in your court here. What do you say? Will you try the best that you can to carry on as you are? Or will you think of childhood friends and the dreams you had and let him back in? Together you can once again search for tomorrow on every shore."

The writer/Rolling Stone suggested the reunion and put it out there for the public!

I get it... and I'd love to see it.

But the reality is what it is... we all know this.

Tommy and JY do not enjoy being around or working with Dennis DeYoung. Even with having had no contact for 21 years, all they remember is that Dennis is controlling and demanding, which according to them made their 1996 reunion a misery and their 1997 tour unbearable. Dennis wants his show tunes and dramatic acting, while Tommy and JY just want to rock the same setlist 200 nights a year.

They don't need the money from what a reunion *might* provide and they don't care if *some* fans want Dennis on tour because their own happiness is more important.

I can't remember if it was a live interview or article, but what seemed to make things "worse" was when they kicked him out of the band in 78/79 for a few weeks, then when they couldn't find a replacement asked him back. He was so resentful and hurt by them doing that, he basically told JY "I'm in control moving forward or I'm not coming back". JY agreed to this.

So really... Tommy and JY haven't wanted him in Styx for 40 years, opportunity finally struck in 1999 when they had a good and proper reason. Dennis says he's "sick"? Well, sorry Dennis, get well soon and make sure the door hits you on the way out, we have a tour to do!

SuiteMadameBlue wrote:Monker,

Rolling Stone wrote the article. You obviously didn't read the bottom of the article

"Gentlemen of Styx, Dennis has put the ball firmly in your court here. What do you say? Will you try the best that you can to carry on as you are? Or will you think of childhood friends and the dreams you had and let him back in? Together you can once again search for tomorrow on every shore."

The writer/Rolling Stone suggested the reunion and put it out there for the public!

And, it is you pining for a reunion. A reunion that you know isn't going to happen. I know exactly what I replied to. Perhaps you didn't read my first paragraph where I said, "How often does Styx have to turn him down before he and people like you, Toph, froy, etc understand that Styx simply isn't this band any longer, they don't want to be and are happy NOT being part of DDY's universe."

StyxGuy wrote:I can't remember if it was a live interview or article, but what seemed to make things "worse" was when they kicked him out of the band in 78/79 for a few weeks, then when they couldn't find a replacement asked him back. He was so resentful and hurt by them doing that, he basically told JY "I'm in control moving forward or I'm not coming back". JY agreed to this.

A version of this was in the "Behind the Music".

So really... Tommy and JY haven't wanted him in Styx for 40 years, opportunity finally struck in 1999 when they had a good and proper reason. Dennis says he's "sick"? Well, sorry Dennis, get well soon and make sure the door hits you on the way out, we have a tour to do!

That's an exaggeration for what happened. Dennis wanted them to reschedule the tour and/or delay the album because of his light sensitivity (which he says he STILL has), Tommy and the label said they couldn't do that..what's the point of releasing an album if you are not going to tour for it? So they brought in Gowan to tour. Then, as JY said in the BTM, Dennis had no idea when he was going to be better. Tommy posted on his old blog that he talked to Jonathan Cain for advice on what to do, I assume because Steve Perry did exactly the same thing to Journey. So, they ended up firing Dennis. Then Dennis cried (according to him) and then sued the band to get his share of royalties.

I don't think it was just "an opportunity". IMO, as was said back then - maybe the BTM, it was a "here we go again" moment. Remember, there was all kinds of bullshit going on because of Hunchback. Dennis' time was split because of Hunchback, and at times it seemed to take priority over Styx. Even Dennis has admitted in interviews that he was burned out from doing both and that may have contributed to his health issues. Even BNW has a Hunchback song on it. His first tours FEATURED Hunchback songs. On his PBS tour he was promoting the idea of a PBS production of Hunchback. The '97 tour was originally not going to happen because of Hunchback, and was a short tour because of Hunchback. As you said, there was the incident prior to Paradise Theater. Then everything around Kilroy. All of Styx' misery revolved around Dennis and canceling the BNW tour was the last straw...especially since Gowan worked out so well for them.

Monker wrote:

StyxGuy wrote:I can't remember if it was a live interview or article, but what seemed to make things "worse" was when they kicked him out of the band in 78/79 for a few weeks, then when they couldn't find a replacement asked him back. He was so resentful and hurt by them doing that, he basically told JY "I'm in control moving forward or I'm not coming back". JY agreed to this.

A version of this was in the "Behind the Music".

So really... Tommy and JY haven't wanted him in Styx for 40 years, opportunity finally struck in 1999 when they had a good and proper reason. Dennis says he's "sick"? Well, sorry Dennis, get well soon and make sure the door hits you on the way out, we have a tour to do!

That's an exaggeration for what happened. Dennis wanted them to reschedule the tour and/or delay the album because of his light sensitivity (which he says he STILL has), Tommy and the label said they couldn't do that..what's the point of releasing an album if you are not going to tour for it? So they brought in Gowan to tour. Then, as JY said in the BTM, Dennis had no idea when he was going to be better. Tommy posted on his old blog that he talked to Jonathan Cain for advice on what to do, I assume because Steve Perry did exactly the same thing to Journey. So, they ended up firing Dennis. Then Dennis cried (according to him) and then sued the band to get his share of royalties.

I don't think it was just "an opportunity". IMO, as was said back then - maybe the BTM, it was a "here we go again" moment. Remember, there was all kinds of bullshit going on because of Hunchback. Dennis' time was split because of Hunchback, and at times it seemed to take priority over Styx. Even Dennis has admitted in interviews that he was burned out from doing both and that may have contributed to his health issues. Even BNW has a Hunchback song on it. His first tours FEATURED Hunchback songs. On his PBS tour he was promoting the idea of a PBS production of Hunchback. The '97 tour was originally not going to happen because of Hunchback, and was a short tour because of Hunchback. As you said, there was the incident prior to Paradise Theater. Then everything around Kilroy. All of Styx' misery revolved around Dennis and canceling the BNW tour was the last straw...especially since Gowan worked out so well for them.

By contract Styx were suppose to deliver a studio album to CMC in 1997 but Tommy asked Dennis to tour that year instead because he needed money. Dennis had committed to his Hunchback producers in 1995 to a fall 1997 Nashville production before he knew there would be a Styx reunion. Everyone knew that. He was not choosing The Hunchback over Styx.
Dennis did both things that year to help Tommy financially and the studio album was postponed. In 1997 Dennis worked on his prior Hunchback commitment, he mixed and produced the Return To Paradise cd to satisfy CMC and did the Grand Illusion tour which was his idea.
While Dennis did the Hunchback in the fall, Tommy began recording 7 Deadly Zens for CMC. A solo project not a Styx project.
Dennis became ill in 1998. Tommy’s record came out that June.
Still later that year while ill Dennis started recording BNW with JY and Tommy because he liked Tommy’s new songs. In February of 1999 the album was over half done when a tour was proposed not booked. Dennis asked to finish the album and another 6 months to recover.
By saying he wouldn’t finish the album without a tour Tommy angered CMC. They threatened the band and Tommy returned to recording.
These are the facts!!!!!

FFS, move. on.

brywool wrote:FFS, move. on.

I assume you are saying that to the Dennis fans, who keeps yammering on about a reunion.
They seem not to have moved on, where as everybody else has.

Moving on would be easier if all those who have bashed Dennis based on lies and distortions would just admit they were duped. Yet they hide behind the fallacy that we are Dennis fans only instead of actual Styx fans, which is who we are. One million Styx fans recently watched him sing BOT from home. The comments were so numerous and positive they could not have been only so called Dennis fans. They were Styx fans wanting a reunion. Even Rolling Stone.

When Tommy and JY replaced Dennis while he was ill, they told lies as to the reasons. I kept those posts. Dennis passes the baton to Tommy etc. When we learned the truth this divided us. Many who were Styx fans who communicated and were friends were forced to choose. Why? Mr.Roboto, Kilroy and Babe, please this does not make sense. They played Babe on the 96 and 97 tours and no one mentioned Kilroy Was Here. And now they even play Mr. Roboto.

Those of us who like Dennis never hated the other guys we loved the band. But because of all the constant negativity toward Dennis by Tommy and JY, fans of the new band must denigrate Dennis and not just musically but personally. We Styx fans want one last chance to experience what we loved. Please watch the 1996 reunion tour and read those comments. They overwhelming want that experience again

So.. is it the author or Dennis saying "Larry is a fine singer"????

What a bunch of complete bullshit. All you are doing here is playing politics and repeating what Dennis said in recent interviews as if they are some talking points from a politician.

It doesn't make sense to you because you refuse to understand that it isn't just the songs "Babe" and Mr. Roboto, or the KWH album...it is the circumstances that revolve around those entire experiences, and Dennis acting like a controlling, manipulative, ego driven ass.

The very fact that he is begging for a reunion shows that he is STILL trying to control Styx

You never hated the "other guys"? How many times in this forum was Stynx posted? It was you who started "carrot Styx" and carrot Styx fans after Cyclorama was released. Glen had months of anger directed at him because of the belief "Killing the Thing That You Love" was insulting Dennis. Then Dennis himself made the 'bathwater' comment,
and people used that to describe Styx fans. So, don't play innocent because it's bullshit.

This has nothing to do with the fans. It has to do with what Dennis wants and using fan comments in a manipulative and controlling way to try to get it.

SuiteMadameBlue wrote:Moving on would be easier if all those who have bashed Dennis based on lies and distortions would just admit they were duped. Yet they hide behind the fallacy that we are Dennis fans only instead of actual Styx fans, which is who we are. One million Styx fans recently watched him sing BOT from home. The comments were so numerous and positive they could not have been only so called Dennis fans. They were Styx fans wanting a reunion. Even Rolling Stone.

When Tommy and JY replaced Dennis while he was ill, they told lies as to the reasons. I kept those posts. Dennis passes the baton to Tommy etc. When we learned the truth this divided us. Many who were Styx fans who communicated and were friends were forced to choose. Why? Mr.Roboto, Kilroy and Babe, please this does not make sense. They played Babe on the 96 and 97 tours and no one mentioned Kilroy Was Here. And now they even play Mr. Roboto.

Those of us who like Dennis never hated the other guys we loved the band. But because of all the constant negativity toward Dennis by Tommy and JY, fans of the new band must denigrate Dennis and not just musically but personally. We Styx fans want one last chance to experience what we loved. Please watch the 1996 reunion tour and read those comments. They overwhelming want that experience again

Jodes wrote:So.. is it the author or Dennis saying "Larry is a fine singer"????

The author. I don't think Dennis has ever seen Lawrence perform, though he did open for Styx in Quebec City and Montreal in 1997.

Monker wrote:What a bunch of complete bullshit. All you are doing here is playing politics and repeating what Dennis said in recent interviews as if they are some talking points from a politician.

It doesn't make sense to you because you refuse to understand that it isn't just the songs "Babe" and Mr. Roboto, or the KWH album...it is the circumstances that revolve around those entire experiences, and Dennis acting like a controlling, manipulative, ego driven ass.

The very fact that he is begging for a reunion shows that he is STILL trying to control Styx

You never hated the "other guys"? How many times in this forum was Stynx posted? It was you who started "carrot Styx" and carrot Styx fans after Cyclorama was released. Glen had months of anger directed at him because of the belief "Killing the Thing That You Love" was insulting Dennis. Then Dennis himself made the 'bathwater' comment,
and people used that to describe Styx fans. So, don't play innocent because it's bullshit.

This has nothing to do with the fans. It has to do with what Dennis wants and using fan comments in a manipulative and controlling way to try to get it.

SuiteMadameBlue wrote:Moving on would be easier if all those who have bashed Dennis based on lies and distortions would just admit they were duped. Yet they hide behind the fallacy that we are Dennis fans only instead of actual Styx fans, which is who we are. One million Styx fans recently watched him sing BOT from home. The comments were so numerous and positive they could not have been only so called Dennis fans. They were Styx fans wanting a reunion. Even Rolling Stone.

When Tommy and JY replaced Dennis while he was ill, they told lies as to the reasons. I kept those posts. Dennis passes the baton to Tommy etc. When we learned the truth this divided us. Many who were Styx fans who communicated and were friends were forced to choose. Why? Mr.Roboto, Kilroy and Babe, please this does not make sense. They played Babe on the 96 and 97 tours and no one mentioned Kilroy Was Here. And now they even play Mr. Roboto.

Those of us who like Dennis never hated the other guys we loved the band. But because of all the constant negativity toward Dennis by Tommy and JY, fans of the new band must denigrate Dennis and not just musically but personally. We Styx fans want one last chance to experience what we loved. Please watch the 1996 reunion tour and read those comments. They overwhelming want that experience again

Politics? These were simply facts.
We were all Styx fans until JY and Tommy replaced Dennis then lied about it. I repeat I have those posts. Why did they lie? Any anger directed at them after they lied was understandable given the love true Styx fans had for the whole band. Remember the vitriol was started by those who joined in with Tommy and JY after BTM and made Dennis into a villain. Please remember without Lady hardly anyone would know Styx or Tommy Shaw.

Dennis was correct in calling those who excepted whatever Tommy and JY said as “bath water drinkers”. They lied and some fans believed them. He never called all Styx fans that but if the shoe fits.

Have you read the comments on his YouTube BOT home video. These countless fans want a reunion. Plus over 4 million views of the 1996 Return to Paradise reunion all saying that this is the Styx they want.

Please address the facts, the events or timeline presented in the last post. Relying on falsehoods told by your heroes to form opinions on someone you have never met is unwise. To constantly refer to Dennis as a controlling ego maniac simply reinforces the distortion and lies you accepted from Tommy and JY!!!!
Let’s assume he was the controlling dictator they claim then at the very least he should receive enormous credit for that string of albums we all love.
They replaced a sick colleague in a power and money grab nothing more. Need proof, the first corporation formed by them after Dennis was replaced was called TMB. Two man band. Not three that would have included Chuck. Follow the money.

Read Alan Hirt’s interview with Tommy where he admits that Dennis was the leader and the one who spent the time in the studio making those albums we love.
Dennis is not trying to control Styx he wants one last tour for the fans and the vast majority of fans want the same thing. Should a tour happen stay home if you like. But I don’t think you will. Before BTM we all loved the same thing. Styx.

One more thing, about BTM, there was so much footage that was never shown and that's from each person involved. In fact, from what I understand, there's footage from family members and friends of members past and present of the band that was never shown either.

Speaking of politics, politicians and their sheep live by the axiom if you tell falsehoods enough even the liar will start to believe them. I was at the Texas Jam and the garbage that was spewed about Styx and their Kilroy concert was one of the biggest lies ever told regarding the band. Dennis should of sued Cahil, Tommy& JY for that whopper and how BTM depicted that show. That rBehind the Music episode made Dennis look so bad, and after a while Tommy & JY started to believe the lies they spewed. Mission accomplished Tommy & JY.

It’s hard to believe just a year or two prior Dennis was joining Tommy in Chicago on Tommy’s Border bookstore venue promoting his 7 Deadly Zens album. Tommy acted like DDY was his long lost best friend when Dennis appeared then poof .........

For whatever reason,& like a couple of HS girls Tommy & JY found a target that WAS a friend and ganged up on him told some believable lies and literally stole something that Dennis created.

All DDY wants now is what he created back for a brief time. Who on earth could blame him for that?

Is this 1999 or 2020?

We've been hashing this same stuff for over 20 years now.

Disclaimer: I'm credited in the BTM as I provided material for them to use. That said ...

BTM tells a story. They made entertainment. None of us - me, Laurie, Monker, the man on the street corner - lived through it. They did. Was DDY difficult to work with? Maybe. Were JY and TS peaches to work with? Maybe, maybe not. Are *you* always pleasant to be around? I know I have my moments. You'd be lying if you're a ray of sunshine 24x7.

Look at the Michael Jordan documentary, especially the last two parts. I saw that bit of the end of Episode 7. There's a guy who STILL has that competitive fire. Did it make him a jerk to some? Hell yes. Am I saying DDY is MJ? No. But don't delude yourself that bands can always effectively work as a democracy, either. Look at the gaffes of many bands and how most of them hate each other these days. They hang on for a couple of hours on stage and then go their separate ways.

I can tell you that post-Po8 you can hear a difference in the way the band wrote and recorded. Demos and such pre-Cornerstone for the most part sound different and I'll leave it at that. At some point ALL bands become about business - even in ones like Rush where they genuinely did like each other but still almost split apart in the mid-80s. The Styx you hear on the Mantra show - hungry, ready to break it big - is not the same band you hear at Chicago Stadium basically 18 months later which seems to be on automatic pilot. Styx, give or take, has been doing a variation of that '78 show now more often than not for 40 years with some songs rotating in and out.

I think we all know a reunion won't happen. It doesn't mean *some* fans or even Dennis on some level don't want it - many do. Just like other fans hate DDY and ballads, and just want to hear Styx as it is today. Neither viewpoint is wrong, but neither is necessarily right. At the end of the day they are both opinions. Opinions are like a$$holes. Everyone has one.

None of them are spring chickens, and with the state of the world today, I'm thankful I got to see them on EOTC, both reunion tours in 96 and 97, and both DDY and Styx numerous times post-99. All of this back and forth and bickering is tiring at this point. Like what you like, hate what you hate, but who gives a flip? There's a very real chance none of us may see DDY or Styx live for the forseeable future ... or ever again.

Thank you Allan.. Always the voice of reason!

It's Styx - it's always going to be controversial!

Stay safe man.. I hope all is well.

That goes for all of you.. well except for the DB that joked about my mom's Alzheimer's that guy can go straight to Hell! (No I won't let that one go)

Jodes wrote:Thank you Allan.. Always the voice of reason!

It's Styx - it's always going to be controversial!

Stay safe man.. I hope all is well.

That goes for all of you.. well except for the DB that joked about my mom's Alzheimer's that guy can go straight to Hell! (No I won't let that one go)

Doing well, thanks for asking. hope you're hanging in with everything going on.

I'm not trying to be the voice of reason, but after 20 years, you might as well try to figure out peace in the Middle East which hasn't been settled for thousands of years.

StyxCollector wrote:Is this 1999 or 2020?

We've been hashing this same stuff for over 20 years now.

Disclaimer: I'm credited in the BTM as I provided material for them to use. That said ...

BTM tells a story. They made entertainment. None of us - me, Laurie, Monker, the man on the street corner - lived through it. They did. Was DDY difficult to work with? Maybe. Were JY and TS peaches to work with? Maybe, maybe not. Are *you* always pleasant to be around? I know I have my moments. You'd be lying if you're a ray of sunshine 24x7.

Look at the Michael Jordan documentary, especially the last two parts. I saw that bit of the end of Episode 7. There's a guy who STILL has that competitive fire. Did it make him a jerk to some? Hell yes. Am I saying DDY is MJ? No. But don't delude yourself that bands can always effectively work as a democracy, either. Look at the gaffes of many bands and how most of them hate each other these days. They hang on for a couple of hours on stage and then go their separate ways.

I can tell you that post-Po8 you can hear a difference in the way the band wrote and recorded. Demos and such pre-Cornerstone for the most part sound different and I'll leave it at that. At some point ALL bands become about business - even in ones like Rush where they genuinely did like each other but still almost split apart in the mid-80s. The Styx you hear on the Mantra show - hungry, ready to break it big - is not the same band you hear at Chicago Stadium basically 18 months later which seems to be on automatic pilot. Styx, give or take, has been doing a variation of that '78 show now more often than not for 40 years with some songs rotating in and out.

I think we all know a reunion won't happen. It doesn't mean *some* fans or even Dennis on some level don't want it - many do. Just like other fans hate DDY and ballads, and just want to hear Styx as it is today. Neither viewpoint is wrong, but neither is necessarily right. At the end of the day they are both opinions. Opinions are like a$$holes. Everyone has one.

None of them are spring chickens, and with the state of the world today, I'm thankful I got to see them on EOTC, both reunion tours in 96 and 97, and both DDY and Styx numerous times post-99. All of this back and forth and bickering is tiring at this point. Like what you like, hate what you hate, but who gives a flip? There's a very real chance none of us may see DDY or Styx live for the forseeable future ... or ever again.

Exactly.None of us were in Styx and lived it.
So for the Dennis fans who wants him back in Styx,don't have any idea.
All I can say, he must have been ass enough, for them not wanting anything to do with him.
Simples.Get over it.Move on.

Everyone’s points are correct to a degree.

Yes we were not there but.... what I truly believe was that a little over a year earlier Dennis was sitting in with Tommy on a Borders/ Zens show with Tommy acting ( and he is not acting) like Dennis is his best friend. Dennis didn’t have to do this. He was just helping a good friend out. If Zens would have taken off ( like it should have because it was GREAT) would of Tommy been there for Brave New World?? Point is that Tommy had an outside interest just like Dennis had with Hunchback. Neither took off so here comes Styx and Dennis gets sick. JY needs $$$ but Dennis can’t tour and now he’s the bad guy. That’s total bullshit. My god Def Leopard at the height of their popularity took off a year++ so their bandmate could learn to play the drums with one arm. Dennis needed a little time to figure out his illness and get well. Instead.... as a group they got together and returned to the Kilroy era and butchered Dennis with a story they convinced themselves was true. Again it’s bullshit what they did.

Then with Cahil and all involved in the tour aspect of Styx they publicly humiliated him, making him look like shit with the BTM episode.

When the Behind the Music episode came out if I had to chose I was probably more on the Styx side as to them moving on without him thinking he’d be back in once he recovers. Once I saw that, and heard the TOTAL BULLSHIT story about their horrible performance at the Texas Jam without one mention of the early enactment of the Texas Blue Laws( no more beer sold), no bathrooms etc.... I knew DDY was in trouble in regards to getting back with Styx.

I guess it really doesn’t matter now but if I was Dennis and some guys that were suppose to be my friends literally stole my life’s work by publicly spewing LIES I’d be PISSED off beyond belief.

SuiteMadameBlue wrote: But because of all the constant negativity toward Dennis by Tommy and JY, fans of the new band must denigrate Dennis and not just musically but personally.

Actually, I see a lot more folks bashing the new band as opposed to Dennis, but I do see that too. Having gone through The Beatles split up, there was always this "Lennon OR McCartney?" thing. You were supposed to choose. Nope. They were all great. They all threw barbs at each other too. Rolling Stone would make John legit and Paul shit. Rolling Stone ALWAYS crapped on Styx. Suddenly, we're supposed to listen to them?

I have a problem with the whole "you can only like one side" approach. I think it's ridiculous. You can like all sides and support both. These guys have differences and sometimes people can just no longer work together. It happens. Personally, I think the fans and Dennis need to get over it and yeah, move on.

Styx has NEVER extended an olive branch to Dennis. Jy never wastes a chance to take a shot. Tommy, at least is more quiet about it these days. Dennis, has remained gracious throughout. But, it's been more than obvious that they aren't interested. Leave it at that.

More importantly, Dennis has a band and they are good. If I was in that band, and I kept reading/hearing Dennis say "I want my old band, I want my old band, I want my old band", I think I'd start looking for another gig. It's not a great 'team building' thing to say to the guys that are keeping you out there working. I cringe whenever I hear Dennis that, just because, as a band member, that's pretty deflating.

I saw Styx many times since 77. Those were great shows. I also saw the Reunion tour and the one right after that, sadly, without John. For me, I've HAD the reunion moment. They tried and failed to keep it going for whatever reasons. Some things cannot be forced.

The ONLY reunion I am interested in with JY, Tommy, Dennis, and Chuck is one offstage where they can at least be friendly, civil, have a drink and remember the good things that they did do. If they can't work together, that doesn't bother me. But if those truly were 'friendships' and not just business, THOSE would be good to mend. It sounds like Dennis had good moment with Chuck about the photos used for the album and if you've seen the video of Dennis' new song, Chuck and John are prominent throughout. So it seems like they are at least on speaking terms. That is great to know.

SuiteMadameBlue wrote:Politics? These were simply facts.

Presented by you in an almost word for word way that Dennis did, as if they are political talking points.

Any anger directed at them after they lied was understandable given the love true Styx fans had for the whole band.

There is no such thing as a "true fan". You are either a fan or you are not. It is not up to Dennis, or you, to determine who is a somehow a legitimate "fan" and who isn't.

Funny how when you are called out for insulting the band, and Styx fans, that you then say they deserve it, and contradict yourself further by then saying you love the whole band. Such a farce.

Remember the vitriol was started by those who joined in with Tommy and JY after BTM and made Dennis into a villain.

That's bullshit too. There was "vitriol" dating backing to EotC and DY. You obviously were not around forums back in the early 90's, were you? Remember Micky Jorgenson from Yankee Pride and the crap she went through on Prodigy? Remember Glen being called a liar on Prodigy because some people didn't believe it was him? Remember people calling Tommy fans "Tommy Droolers"? Remember the "Babe" DY controversy? Remember the JY/Ted almost confrontation? Remember the fights on GEnie between those that accepted and those who did not accept Glen? Remember 976-Styx and how some of Donna Lettow's commentary incensed some fans on GEnie? I doubt it, because you were not there.

Please remember without Lady hardly anyone would know Styx or Tommy Shaw.

That is alternate history and therefore fiction. You do not KNOW what would have happened. It also shows the arrogance of Dennis being posted through you.

Dennis was correct in calling those who excepted whatever Tommy and JY said as “bath water drinkers”. They lied and some fans believed them. He never called all Styx fans that but if the shoe fits.

You don't even know what you are talking about above. Dennis was talking about how Tommy was listening to the fans and making decisions based on that, those fans would do whatever he said to do, if he told them to drink his bathwater, they would.

Tommy reached out to the fans on the internet LONG before the reunion. He was on the Styx mailing list for a while because I got him in touch with the owner and asked if he wanted to be added. He posted on the blog on the Styx site, he posted notes on the Crystal Ball fan site.

Yes, at that time, a lot of fans felt more of a personal connection to Tommy because Tommy attempted to make a personal connection to them. Too bad Dennis did not understand that and lashed out and attacked him and his fans due to his ignorance, arrogance, and HIS vitriol.

Have you read the comments on his YouTube BOT home video. These countless fans want a reunion. Plus over 4 million views of the 1996 Return to Paradise reunion all saying that this is the Styx they want.

Yes, I did read some. It's not a big deal to me. And, not ALL of them agree with what you said. And, just because fans want something doesn't mean it should happen. Fans are selfish and want what is best for them.

To constantly refer to Dennis as a controlling ego maniac simply reinforces the distortion and lies you accepted from Tommy and JY!!!!

You don't even read my posts. I do not rely on what Tommy and JY say. I rely on what DENNIS says. He takes full credit for all of Styx success. He says ridiculous things like "I Will Be Your Witness" would have been a huge hit if he had been producer on BNW. He points to things like Renegade and how he influenced the song and made it a hit. He blames everybody else for every conflict.

ALL of this is evidence of an arrogant ass who doesn't take any responsibility for wrong doing, he takes ALL of the credit for success, he blames everybody else for failure, he talks about himself in a grandiose "I am Styx" way. It is all about himself first, and then MAYBE he'll throw a bone to somebody else. I have no doubt that is the type of person Dennis is and how he would be a pain in the ass to work with.

Let’s assume he was the controlling dictator they claim

HE claims Styx was HIS band.
HE claims he produced every album and was responsible for coming up with the Styx sound.
HE claims he brought all the success to Styx and EVERYBODY joined an already successful band.
HE claims he is the person who is responsible for the hits.
HE claims if only Styx did what he wanted certain songs would have been huge hits.
HE is the one who got fired from the band and who is now using fan comments to wriggle his way back in.

then at the very least he should receive enormous credit for that string of albums we all love.

No, he shouldn't. Cyclorama gave the entire writing credits to STYX. THAT is way it should be. STYX deserves the credit for ALL of the albums, not one person or a set of individuals. Styx was NOT DDY and a backing band - which is how it seems he, and you, feels it should have been.

They replaced a sick colleague in a power and money grab nothing more. Need proof, the first corporation formed by them after Dennis was replaced was called TMB. Two man band. Not three that would have included Chuck. Follow the money.

That is so meaningless. Neal Schon's publishing company, and Journey's after Steve Perry left is NOMOTA....or, "NO MOre TAils"...in reference to Steve Perry wearing a tux on stage. It's just in your face angst and bullshit. Implying it is something more is just more propaganda and politics from you.

Read Alan Hirt’s interview with Tommy where he admits that Dennis was the leader and the one who spent the time in the studio making those albums we love.

So what? According to Tommy it is also Dennis and the Roboto tour that drove him to drugs and ultimately put his hand through a pane of glass. One quote you will use as proof of something, the other you will dismiss or redirect to mean something else.

Dennis is not trying to control Styx he wants one last tour for the fans and the vast majority of fans want the same thing. Should a tour happen stay home if you like. But I don’t think you will. Before BTM we all loved the same thing. Styx.

[/quote][/quote]

This question has been asked of the band MULTIPLE times and they have turned him down multiple times. JY said the famous line "when they play ice hockey on the river Styx" in reference to working with Dennis again. Dennis is ABSOLUTELY using those fan comments as a way to manipulate and control Styx. You are just to blind to see it.

brywool wrote:
The ONLY reunion I am interested in with JY, Tommy, Dennis, and Chuck is one offstage where they can at least be friendly, civil, have a drink and remember the good things that they did do. If they can't work together, that doesn't bother me. But if those truly were 'friendships' and not just business, THOSE would be good to mend. It sounds like Dennis had good moment with Chuck about the photos used for the album and if you've seen the video of Dennis' new song, Chuck and John are prominent throughout. So it seems like they are at least on speaking terms. That is great to know.

I'm not sure where the heads started butting with Dennis and JY but theirs is a rift that will never change I think. JY is the guy who "forgave" Dennis of all his wrongdoings over the years in Styx and just wants to move forward. "All the best to Mr. DeYoung"

Tommy I could see possibly having a bit of a relationship, and I truly think something must have been there with Chuck (and John).

Dennis isn't on speaking terms with Chuck, but he did reach out to seek permission to use the footage of him and John in his music video. I honestly want to hear that Chuck and Dennis and on amicable terms.. I don't even care about a reunion that much anymore.

Monker makes alot of decent arguments, but obviously based on Tommy doing 7 Deadly Zens in 97/98 he too like Dennis ( Hunchback) had other outside interests. What If ( Horrible album) the following happens:

Tommy's 7 Deadly Zens album hits BIG and now Tommy's a BIG solo star. Dennis doesnt get sick flying back & forth for Hunchback but Disney still causes Hunchback to fail. Now Cartman, Big Daddy, Freaks & Geeks & the VW commericial all happen and Styx is in vogue again. Based on Cartman, Big Daddy.... Tommy keeps his word to Styx & agrees to make the BNW album but wont tour because he's a now a solo star & 7DZ demands a tour. What happens??

Is Tommy now the BAD guy in JY's world? I think the answer is absolutely yes, because the real money is going to be made touring. Only now, on the Behind the Music we are hearing about all of Tommy's faults along with a bunch of thrown in vicious lies.

Remember just one year prior Tommy & Dennis were friends with Dennis helping Tommy out in Chicago on Tommy's Borders tour. Before that, they were on tour reliving Paradise Theater & The Grand Illusion and before that JY & Chuck had no problem doing Edge Of The Century & they would have done Edge ll.

Why wasnt Dennis such a tyrant then??

As for Dennis demanding the spotlight I would say ANY group doing anything worthwhile MUST have a leader. If he was such a tyrant why would he allow the first album with Tommy in the band to be titled Crystal Ball with the first single being Mademoislle. Then later Glen enters the band and the album is titled Edge Of The Century and the first single released is Love Is The Ritual.

That's not a tyrant that's a team player.

Finally, if my above scenario would have happened with 7 Deadly Zens hitting I believe Dennis wouldnt of gone on tour to support Brave New World until Tommy was good to go. Again thats not a tyrant thats a TEAM guy.

yogi wrote:Monker makes alot of decent arguments, but obviously based on Tommy doing 7 Deadly Zens in 97/98 he too like Dennis ( Hunchback) had other outside interests. What If ( Horrible album) the following happens:

Tommy's 7 Deadly Zens album hits BIG and now Tommy's a BIG solo star. Dennis doesnt get sick flying back & forth for Hunchback but Disney still causes Hunchback to fail. Now Cartman, Big Daddy, Freaks & Geeks & the VW commericial all happen and Styx is in vogue again. Based on Cartman, Big Daddy.... Tommy keeps his word to Styx & agrees to make the BNW album but wont tour because he's a now a solo star & 7DZ demands a tour. What happens??

Is Tommy now the BAD guy in JY's world? I think the answer is absolutely yes, because the real money is going to be made touring. Only now, on the Behind the Music we are hearing about all of Tommy's faults along with a bunch of thrown in vicious lies.

Remember just one year prior Tommy & Dennis were friends with Dennis helping Tommy out in Chicago on Tommy's Borders tour. Before that, they were on tour reliving Paradise Theater & The Grand Illusion and before that JY & Chuck had no problem doing Edge Of The Century & they would have done Edge ll.

Why wasnt Dennis such a tyrant then??

As for Dennis demanding the spotlight I would say ANY group doing anything worthwhile MUST have a leader. If he was such a tyrant why would he allow the first album with Tommy in the band to be titled Crystal Ball with the first single being Mademoislle. Then later Glen enters the band and the album is titled Edge Of The Century and the first single released is Love Is The Ritual.

That's not a tyrant that's a team player.

Finally, if my above scenario would have happened with 7 Deadly Zens hitting I believe Dennis wouldnt of gone on tour to support Brave New World until Tommy was good to go. Again thats not a tyrant thats a TEAM guy.

Didn't Dennis have writers block for Crystal Ball,maybe EOC too.
Don't know how the Borders hookup came about, but however it was, it was only for maybe 15 minutes ??
Easier to handle than a full tour.

Thought he said the writers block took place during Pieces of Eight

I thought the writers block happened during the making of Pieces of Eight.

gr8dane wrote:

StyxCollector wrote:Is this 1999 or 2020?

We've been hashing this same stuff for over 20 years now.

Disclaimer: I'm credited in the BTM as I provided material for them to use. That said ...

BTM tells a story. They made entertainment. None of us - me, Laurie, Monker, the man on the street corner - lived through it. They did. Was DDY difficult to work with? Maybe. Were JY and TS peaches to work with? Maybe, maybe not. Are *you* always pleasant to be around? I know I have my moments. You'd be lying if you're a ray of sunshine 24x7.

Look at the Michael Jordan documentary, especially the last two parts. I saw that bit of the end of Episode 7. There's a guy who STILL has that competitive fire. Did it make him a jerk to some? Hell yes. Am I saying DDY is MJ? No. But don't delude yourself that bands can always effectively work as a democracy, either. Look at the gaffes of many bands and how most of them hate each other these days. They hang on for a couple of hours on stage and then go their separate ways.

I can tell you that post-Po8 you can hear a difference in the way the band wrote and recorded. Demos and such pre-Cornerstone for the most part sound different and I'll leave it at that. At some point ALL bands become about business - even in ones like Rush where they genuinely did like each other but still almost split apart in the mid-80s. The Styx you hear on the Mantra show - hungry, ready to break it big - is not the same band you hear at Chicago Stadium basically 18 months later which seems to be on automatic pilot. Styx, give or take, has been doing a variation of that '78 show now more often than not for 40 years with some songs rotating in and out.

I think we all know a reunion won't happen. It doesn't mean *some* fans or even Dennis on some level don't want it - many do. Just like other fans hate DDY and ballads, and just want to hear Styx as it is today. Neither viewpoint is wrong, but neither is necessarily right. At the end of the day they are both opinions. Opinions are like a$$holes. Everyone has one.

None of them are spring chickens, and with the state of the world today, I'm thankful I got to see them on EOTC, both reunion tours in 96 and 97, and both DDY and Styx numerous times post-99. All of this back and forth and bickering is tiring at this point. Like what you like, hate what you hate, but who gives a flip? There's a very real chance none of us may see DDY or Styx live for the forseeable future ... or ever again.

Exactly.None of us were in Styx and lived it.
So for the Dennis fans who wants him back in Styx,don't have any idea.
All I can say, he must have been ass enough, for them not wanting anything to do with him.
Simples.Get over it.Move on.

Gr8dane when you mentioned “He must have been ass enough for them not wanting anything to do with him”, a few people on here keep repeating JY and Tommy’s talking points which were created for BTM solely to divert attention from the fact that they were replacing a sick band member for money. Where was all this talk about bad Dennis before BTM. I can’t find it. They lied to all of us about his retirement and passing of the baton.

Read Tommys interview with Sterling conducted via phone on May 24, 1993 while in Damn Yankees. Here’s an excerpt of the truth.

SW: The albums say "Produced by Styx". Does that mean that each of you produced your own work?

TS: We each spent more time on our own songs, but Dennis was the guy, he was the anchor there. He knew more of what he was doing than the rest of us did. Knowing what I know now, I see what he was doing then. But at the time I didn't understand why he would just keep working at things. I just wanted to move on to the next thing. Dennis had a real vision, and he knew which song to put more emphasis on to get it through.

SW: Was he as pushy as people portray him as being?

TS: Not pushy, I just think focused. You've got to be able to keep things moving when you're making an album. You just can't keep taking little side trips, otherwise you lose your edge.

SW: Quite a number of people have potrayed him to me as someone they don't like very much.

TS: I think Dennis is very likeable. You know, not everybody gets his humor. He's a very bright, very charming guy. Except for when he's mad at me, I enjoy being around him.

SW: So what is it about him that seems to rub so many people the wrong way?

TS: Well, he's very confident, he's very intelligent, and he suffers no fools.

SW: Sincerely, a lot of people feel like he thinks he's the Lord of the Earth and they are just peons.

TS: (Laughs). I know Dennis better than that, and I know he can come off like that. But I have a lot of respect for Dennis. I think there's more to Dennis than what people know. I think he has more talent than has been appreciated.

SW: Have you seen any of the reviews for Jesus Christ Superstar?

TS: No, but I've talked to people who have been there. They said that he was the best thing in the show.

SW: Believe it or not, that's what reviewers are saying, too. I would never have believed it.

TS: Oh, I would.

SW: Just beause I didn't think they would review him fairly even if he was great.

TS: That is totally his realm. I always felt he wanted to be an actor.

SW: And that's not your thing, obviously.

TS: It's close enough to what I do that I can do it. But I would never claim to be good at it. You could put me in a movie and I would not embarrass you, you know, but I would not see me accept the best actor award. I have an appreciation for the craft, and I haven't studied it. But I know how to sit in front of a camera and not pick my nose, where to hit my mark, and not trip over the furniture.

SW: When you were doing Kilroy, were you pretty uncomfortable?

TS: I was pretty high. (Laughs). I was a little jittery, pretty anxious. (Laughs).