MR

Again ChicagoStyx, this isn't all about Dennis

Just to let you know, I read on another board that the current Styx is featured this weekend on Rockline (tonight I think). JY does talk about John C.

I also found this about him from the same 1981 interview. I can't remember who was asking about John C., but here is some more information - remember this is from 1981:

N.R.N. — Tell me about John Curulewski and why he left the group?

J.Y. — "John was very opinionated and had his own ideas on how things should be done, and towards the end of his time with the group he didn't seem very happy with what was going on. His wife had just had a child and maybe being on the road was bothering or whatever...it's difficult for me to say, because I haven't really talked to him in length since he left the band. He was upset with certain things and the way certain things were happening..."

N.R.N. — Is he still into music as far as you know?

J.Y. — "I know he's still teaching guitar lessons and off and on he's had different groups that have played around. But he hasn't had anymore record deals that I know about."

I have always thought of John C. as the Pete Best of Styx. Of course, Pete Best was sort of pulled aside and Ringo Starr was slotted in to the Beatles. Then he had the sad luck to watch his former group soar into the stratosphere without him.

John C. left Styx for probably many reasons, but voluntarily. And off Styx went to go platinum and tour the world and make lots of money.

My personal opinion, though, is that the very best album Styx ever made (and I may get some flack here) is Equinox.

Mother Dear is a terribly underappreciated song. A sonic pleasure of beautiful two-part harmony , Dennis and John, and amazing synthesizer work. The words John wrote were really great and it is one of my favorite Styx songs.

The rest of Equinox has some of their best work, I think and of course, the masterpiece, Suite Madame Blue.

Bugsy

Here's a portion from STYX:Set An Open Course For The Virgin Sea..By Chuck Miller..


But even as the band began a concert tour to support Equinox,there was growing friction within the group.. John Curulewski left the band in December 1975, leaving Styx for a life with his family.." The Equinox album came out in November," said JY," and we were out on the road.. And it became increasingly clear with every tour stop that JC was becoming less and less happy with his life and what was going on around him, and I don't exactly know why..He was extremely negative for that whole month, and ultimately he wound up Quiting around Pearl Harbor Day in 1975.."

From Equal Time for John Curulewski;

According to JC's son, Jamie, there were a couple of main reasons why JC quit Styx..

1( He wanted to spend more time with his family.. The traveling schedule was taking JC away from his family too much..

2( On some of the earlier recordings he was getting screwed out of money because he wasn't old enough yet..

The grueling schedule and "differences of Opinion" with Dennis also contributed to JC's decision...

After leaving Styx, JC was in a couple of Chicago area bands including one called "Spread Eagle"..JC also opened up a music store and a recording studio in a suburb of Chicago..


And Bugsy, If I had to choose a favorite Styx Album, Equinox would be close to the top of the list...A classic solid rock album...

DeeJay...

Any talk about John C. always facinates me. Reason #1 is that I have ALWAYS felt Equinox was Styx's best album EVER. It's my favorite Rock and roll album of all time.

Styx found way more commercial success with The Grand Illusion, Pieces Of Eight, Paradise Theatre etc...,still I always felt Equinox was better. Thats an opinion I know, but what cant be argued is that switching to A&M and that album put Styx the course to HUGE future success. For John to leave right after putting out that masterpiece and before the band even toured to support that masterpiece just blows me away. There must of been some REAL serious shi t going on in his life and in his head. It's kind of like on 'Field Of Dreams' when Kevin Costner says to Doc 'To quit when your so close to your dreams some people would call that a tragedy' etc...

Anyway NO argument here about the brilliance of John C. and Equinox. I know I have writtten this before, but if you ever get the chance get in your car or whwever you listen to music and crank up the last 4 songs( side ll) off of Equinox. Music was NEVER better!!!!!!

Glad to see others feel about Equinox the way I do. There is not a weak song on the entire album in my opinion.
I never get tired of listening to it.

At one time I took my favorites from this Styx album and that Styx album and put them on my on complilation CD's, but I find now I enjoy listening to the entire album as it was meant to be heard.

Both Equinox and Crystal Ball fit on one CD and I really enjoy listeing to those two back to back.


Bugsy

JC and EQUINOX rocks!!

Equinox my favourite Styx album.
JC's A Day,one of my top 5 Styx songs.

i think equinox is a great album.....no denying that for sure.......but JC leaving the band was a good thing IMO.....i dont or didnt dislike him but adding tommy to the mix opened the door for the band to be more creative in their writing and certainly much more dynamic in their stage presentation.

styx would never have achieved the overall success they did if it had not been for JC quiting.

and just to clarify that doesnt mean that they could not have achieved the success they did without tommy.....this may surprise a few, especially toph, but i think they could have if the right person was picked.

what I am saying is that somebody like tommy was what this band needed to get over the hump.......so there could have been someone else they picked that could have pushed them over the edge as well......i do think tommy was obviously the right guy.

but i think it's important for me anyway, that as much as tommy was the right guy for their future at that time that JC was the wrong guy for their future. they needed a change period and JC needed to be gone and somebody with tommy's skills were needed.

I couldn't disagree more.

Tommy is GREAT no doubt. But the biggest thing that happened at the time was the label switch. A&M and their management gave the band some major muscle. That muscle added to the fact that the band had now hit their stride( as proven by Equinox) put Styx over the top.

yogi wrote:I couldn't disagree more.

Tommy is GREAT no doubt. But the biggest thing that happened at the time was the label switch. A&M and their management gave the band some major muscle. That muscle added to the fact that the band had now hit their stride( as proven by Equinox) put Styx over the top.

i agree that the switch to a & m was also hugely important……but i don't think the band would have continued to grow like it did if they had continued on with JC….not a slam against the guy i like him just fine……..but their music became more appealing after he was gone and tommy was in.

Speaking about J.C. I remember reading about a confrontation between DDY and JC. I think it's was in Sterling's book. Apparently at a show JC appeared to be high or drunk and his performance was bad. After the show DDY confronted JC and told him that he never wanted to play onstage with him again ever.

Boomchild wrote:Speaking about J.C. I remember reading about a confrontation between DDY and JC. I think it's was in Sterling's book. Apparently at a show JC appeared to be high or drunk and his performance was bad. After the show DDY confronted JC and told him that he never wanted to play onstage with him again ever.

and if that's true then that is part of what I mean.....JC was apparently not happy with ddy becoming the leader and his ideas seeming less important.

you take a band member that becomes disgruntled and is unhappy and he will bring down the rest of the band......every......single........time.

whatever the reason was the relationship between JC and ddy was splintering and i think tommy brought the right spirit, sense of melody, stage show and songwriting/musicianship to the band that they and dennis needed.

i think tommy's writing ability pushed dennis to become a better writer......everyone knows there is always competition in bands with multiple writers in the band to get their material on the album......so back when albums contained 7 or 8 songs there was a real chance you may get left behind if you didnt "bring it".......tommy was a great writer, dennis knew it, but wasnt about to let go of being the man (and I dont mean that in a bad way, i mean he was naturally competitive) and as a result I think his songwriting started getting better.

dennis becoming better=styx becoming better.

That being said, IMO Dennis was NEVER better than he was on Equinox.

That album was all DDY and it was a masterpiece!!!

yogi wrote:That being said, IMO Dennis was NEVER better than he was on Equinox.

That album was all DDY and it was a masterpiece!!!

thats what's great about this band is that they made so much good music that fans have different favorite moments......yours for dennis is equinox.

while i agree his stuff on equinox is great my best from dennis would be the "grand illusion" album

followed by "paradise theater"

and even though he doesnt care much for what he did on "pieces of eight" i think his contributions were stellar.

so for ddy output during the a & m "hey day" years I would rank em and keep in mind that I like pretty much all of his output;

1) grand illusion
2) paradise theater
3) pieces of eight
4) equinox
5) crystal ball
6) cornerstone
7) kilroy

Well I have never seen any JC live performance. I really don't know how was his stage presentation.
Also his songs was not so "pop" for radio like tommy's . But he is behind 2 of my all time fave Styx songs "A Day" and " The Serpent Is Rising".
Equinox is my fave Styx album too. And JC with JY and Dennis made the best Styx rock song in my opinion - "Born For Adventure".

Could not agree more than what Kilroy just posted.

masque wrote:

yogi wrote:That being said, IMO Dennis was NEVER better than he was on Equinox.

That album was all DDY and it was a masterpiece!!!

thats what's great about this band is that they made so much good music that fans have different favorite moments......yours for dennis is equinox.

while i agree his stuff on equinox is great my best from dennis would be the "grand illusion" album

followed by "paradise theater"

and even though he doesnt care much for what he did on "pieces of eight" i think his contributions were stellar.

so for ddy output during the a & m "hey day" years I would rank em and keep in mind that I like pretty much all of his output;

1) grand illusion
2) paradise theater
3) pieces of eight
4) equinox
5) crystal ball
6) cornerstone
7) kilroy

Think DDY hit his creative peak with Paradise Theatre, although GI would be close. GI nudges as an album above PT because of 2 of Tommy's contributions (thought Superstars was just average). I think DDY was essentially equal on PT to GI, Tommy was far superior on GI than PT, JY was superior on PT than GI. Net, net GI by a smidgen.

Toph wrote:

masque wrote:

yogi wrote:That being said, IMO Dennis was NEVER better than he was on Equinox.

That album was all DDY and it was a masterpiece!!!

thats what's great about this band is that they made so much good music that fans have different favorite moments......yours for dennis is equinox.

while i agree his stuff on equinox is great my best from dennis would be the "grand illusion" album

followed by "paradise theater"

and even though he doesnt care much for what he did on "pieces of eight" i think his contributions were stellar.

so for ddy output during the a & m "hey day" years I would rank em and keep in mind that I like pretty much all of his output;

1) grand illusion
2) paradise theater
3) pieces of eight
4) equinox
5) crystal ball
6) cornerstone
7) kilroy

Think DDY hit his creative peak with Paradise Theatre, although GI would be close. GI nudges as an album above PT because of 2 of Tommy's contributions (thought Superstars was just average). I think DDY was essentially equal on PT to GI, Tommy was far superior on GI than PT, JY was superior on PT than GI. Net, net GI by a smidgen.

i would agree with those assessments as well.

Kilroy1983 wrote:Well I have never saw any JC live performance. I really don't know how was his stage presentation.
Also his songs was not so "pop" for radio like tommy's . But he is behind 2 of my all time fave Styx songs "A Day" and " The Serpent Is Rising".
Equinox is my fave Styx album too. And JC with JY and Dennis made the best Styx rock song in my opinion - "Born For Adventure".

You know how people on here argue about Larry and Dennis? Well, back in the late 90's I lived in Southeast Missouri and I knew a guy who followed Styx in the early days in Southern Illinois. He and I used to have a similar argument except his was "There is no Styx without JC!". He was a huge JC fan and was proud to say the only Styx he ever saw live was the Wooden Nickel Styx with JC and he had no interest in anything beyond Equinox....

So I asked him what JC did on stage and he said JC was only allowed 2 songs... Serpent Is Rising and Krakatoa (which isn't even a song). So according to him, JC only had these two and was basically just a part of band because Dennis and JY handled most of the lead vocals.

Do you know if they ever performed 'A Day' live? That was a GREAT progressive song off of Styx ll.

yogi wrote:Do you know if they ever performed 'A Day' live? That was a GREAT progressive song off of Styx ll.

i have never seen a setlist with that song on it.....BUT, i would not be surprised to know they played it some during the initial touring behind styx II.

I asked my friend about it. He said they never played A Day. The only two JC songs played live were the two I listed above. Might explain how he was "screwed out of money". Not playing songs written by himself results in zero residuals. Sure he got paid for playing and performing but no pay for his own stuff since he didnt play it live with the exception of those 2 from the 3rd album.

That's unreal. That is some info that should have been in Sterling's or Chucks book about maybe as to one of the reasons JC quit the band.

Who was in charge of what songs were played in concert? Did JY, Chuck and John also have input into what they played live? Was it all DDY or did Wooden Nickel and the management team also have a say?

It's hard to believe that JC quit right as the band was really coming into its own and they were on the cusp of stardom & fame.

PLEASE keep the information about JC & early Styx coming.

Thanks!!

"Krakatoa" and "Serpent is Rising" are terrible tunes. If Styx kept up with those kinds of releases, the band would never have gotten where they did. Gotta wonder if SIR was released after "Man of Miracles" (albums) if A&M wouldn't have said "Nope, too weird". There were better, more audience-friendly JC songs that could've been performed live. Seems like JC should've realized that.

ABSOLUTELY LOVED 'Serpent is Rising'. A Kurt Cobain led Styx song. Was a GREAT GREAT vocal effort by John on an even better song.

To each his own. It was a GREAT song

actually "serpent is rising" is by far my favorite JC song….LOVE that tune.

yogi wrote:That's unreal. That is some info that should have been in Sterling's or Chucks book about maybe as to one of the reasons JC quit the band.

Who was in charge of what songs were played in concert? Did JY, Chuck and John also have input into what they played live? Was it all DDY or did Wooden Nickel and the management team also have a say?

It's hard to believe that JC quit right as the band was really coming into its own and they were on the cusp of stardom & fame.

PLEASE keep the information about JC & early Styx coming.

Thanks!!

Again this is all information given to me by a coworker at the time. He followed the band in the early years. Mostly they played covers. He loved JC's music so he kept up with what they played. Why they only played those 2 I don't know. Probably wasn't mentioned in Sterlings book because he doesn't know this guy. And honestly I'm just taking his word for it but as I said he had no reason to make it up. I'm willing to bet Dennis and JY decided what was played in those days.

Did he follow JC's career after Styx? What kind of band was Spread Eagle? Who was in it? Any albums of theirs out there?

yogi wrote:Did he follow JC's career after Styx? What kind of band was Spread Eagle? Who was in it? Any albums of theirs out there?

Do you know the following Spread Eagles live recordings? both with JC.
SPREAD EAGLE Live at Harlow's 1976 [ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QE3v3F3rgdQ ]
SPREAD EAGLE Live at Lawn Roller Rink July 23, 1977 [ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9WYCaT4oco ]

yogi wrote:It's hard to believe that JC quit right as the band was really coming into its own and they were on the cusp of stardom & fame.

I don't think it's hard to believe that he did when you consider that:

A. JC was not happy that DDY was becoming a more dominant force in the band. As per JY.
B. It's been said that he also was not happy with the musical direction the band was taking.