Deceiving Their Fans

[styxfanNH]

I still have yet to see how bands are "deceiving their fans" when they go on without a member of the band. Hardcore fans know the lineup changes and casual fans of any band that have been around with for 30 years or so, certainly know that many bands change members.

By this theory a band that has a member leave must give up the work the other band members also had input in creating.

Subsequent incarnations of a band would be said to be ripping off the sound of the previous band they were a part of.

Garbage quality music would have to be created to meet contractual obligations of the music companies.

And the "Classic Lineup" that many refer to of Styx, really should not be called Styx because Curjelewski left after Equinox - thus ending the band.

I am just of the opinion that if you don't like what music the band is making then don't buy it or don't go to the concerts. Support the albums you like by buying their albums. There are many bands that i used to listen to but don't any more because their music went in a direction I wasn't happy with. If a lineup change alters the direction of music I don't want, then I won't support them. But I don't feel the need to continually trash them either. I just move on.

[styxfanNH]

You obviously feel very strongly about this topic as you created consecutive threads stating exactly the same thing.

By the way, if you can't tell a difference between the band that is currently being called "styx" and the band that made it possible for them to continue to tour, I don't know what to say.

If you accept this "best line-up ever" it doesn't bother me. I hope when you go see them live you have a great time. It's just not for me (and quite a few others here). Just because you don't see a problem, doesn't diminish the opinions of those who do.

Scott

Scott,

Actually, Scott, I don't feel this is the best lineup ever. You assume way too much. Actually, I am more of a classic lline-up fan. However, I have accepted the fact that as a band, the core of this band just couldn't get along. I like what this lineup brings to the music, but if I had my druthers, the core would be back together. I am hopeful that someday they will be - but I know better than to hold my breath. I guess I look at each lineup as an era of the band and accept each for what they are.

It is obvious that there were issues during the making of BNW not just when they went to tour it and DDY couldn't do it. Personally, I have no reason to doubt that Dennis has this light sensitivity thing and anyone would have to agree that no one would carry on a facade for five years or more if he didn't.

In the mean time I am happy to hear what Tommy, JY and Chuck are bringing to the fans. Its not the same as when DDY was there, but I don't feel they are making bad music. It is just a different version of the music, that in all honesty is pretty much centered around Tommy's and JY's written songs than Dennis's. If anything, it is the absence of Dennis's songs from their set that gets the criticism from the casual fan as most hard core fans have broken one way or the other between DDY and TS/JY.

If you check my posts, I think I am pretty consistent in supporting all lineups for what they bring to the table. I don't think you have to pick sides as they are all contibutors to the music and have the right to perform the music that they had a part in.

Please tell me how this is "diminishing the opinions of those that do." I just don't believe they are deceiving the fans.

[LordofDaRing]

The deception (IMO) occurs when the current line up tries to convince both classic and casual fans alike how much better they are with two or three new members. Some where along the way the chemistry dies and you have to decide for yourself if this is indeed "STYX" or just a good or not good cover band.

[swwskj]

nh,

I didn't claim you said that it was their best line up ever, this is something that tommy and jy seem to claim all the time.

Usually I agree with you. Check out most of my responses. The tone in which you started the thread led me to believe that you were slighting those who didn't agree with moving on as per usual. My apologies if that wasn't your direction.

Scott

[styxfanNH]

Scott,

I started this thread really as a response to a different thread. I think for the most part we respect the varying points of view each of us on the BB have.

I just don't think that Styx as we know it today is "deceiving their fans". To me its really just what this era of Styx is. I think it is easier to point to bands that have gone forward without members of their "classic line-ups" than it is to find bands that have hung together.

I think when most of us think of Styx, we think of the A&M days - Crystal Ball to Kilroy. It would have been easier to define the band if they stopped then. I just really feel that we are at a point that we can see the near future path of the band and it doesn't do anyone any good to keep slamming either side. Until both sides of the band get out of their respective play pens and learn what it takes to play nice together, this is what it is.

And I think we can give most fans credit that they know who the current players are. Its not as if you go to their website and there are pics of DDY there, actually it is like he never exhisted. (Personally, I think that's ashame). This band spawns fans with polarizing positions, I just hope there is middle ground we can come to.

[piecesofeight]

I go to a lot of concerts and arrive very early for the GA shows so there is a lot of time to talk about music and of course I always bring up Styx. So many casual Styx fans seem to have found them aroun the Paradise Theatre time, due to MTV of course. Even then it wasn't my Styx. For so long I couldn't stand the whole Paradise Theatre/Kilroy crap. I have come to appreciate Mr Roboto via Dennis' concerts. This seems to have become a crowd favorite, I believe due to pop culture. For sentimental reasons I have come to appreciate songs from Paradise Theatre too.
I really found Styx during The Grand Illusion. I had heard Lady on the radio, but it still is not my favorite. I received the GI album via a fluke. To this day it's my favorite album period, of any kind.
My user name obviously represents that I REALLY like songs that are not on the GI album, but to me, that's what Styx is/was.
I compare everything to that album. I'm just saying for me that it's about a time period that represents what Styx is to me. If I want to show someone what Styx is, I give them that album because for ME, that's what Styx is-The Grand Illusion. This album saved my life-or so I thought at the time it was that which did.
I also believe it has to do with who was your favorite in the group or who's songs touched you the most. When I first got the album, it was Tommy's, then both, now more Dennis'.
I'm just glad that I found Styx pre Paradise Theatre and Kilroy because they may not have meant as much to me.
The Grand Illusion kicks A$$!! It was the five guys that were apart of that album making that helped me out so it's tough when any other form of the band plays those songs. It just is not the same..........

[bugsymalone]

I think the idea that Styx was "deceiving the fans" stemmed from the promotion of the lineup after Styx left Dennis. They continued to promote heavily using his voice and his image, leading many to believe he was still in the group and that the lineup had not changed.

This, of course, was blatantly false advertising. That said, it is possible the promotions were the product of local advertisers and often they went with what they knew, ie, Classic Styx. The current lineup may not have had much input as to how they were promoted, but apparently did not (and do not) protest much.

There is still quite a bit of that going on today, most egregiously by VH1 which shows Dennis in performance and uses his music, including Babe, in the promotional ad shown on VH1Classic.

I keep thinking that the further away from Dennis the current lineup moves, these types of ads will stop, but they keep popping up with Dennis' voice and music to sell the act all over the country.

Mind you, I feel many of us have moved on from 5 years ago, and the music is what it is to each and every fan. I certainly have no objections to any enjoyment anyone gets from a Current Styx concert, but I do wish they would acknowledge Dennis is gone in their promotions.



Bugsy

[ek88]

There is still quite a bit of that going on today, most egregiously by VH1 which shows Dennis in performance and uses his music, including Babe, in the promotional ad shown on VH1Classic.

You know, I don't know how much say the band has about these things, but I find this sort of thing annoying. Dennis is no longer in the band and to use his image and to include Babe (a song the new lineup will probably never touch) is most definitely misleading. While I'm not opposed to the different directions classic Styx members have gone, I do get a little annoyed at some of the promotional details. At the very least, the band or VH1 or whoever should be straight up about what to expect from the band these days. Not everyone follows as closely as we do

[piecesofeight]

It's a tough call. For instance. When a casino is haveing a 'Styx' show and the newspaper uses a picture of Dennis or a radio station plays a song where Dennis is singing, is the casino or band to blame. After a while maybe the band is to blame if they are on large tour and don't get their promo person to get on this.
Lou Gramm. This was a mess. We talk about how most fans know. Well, many didn't. All of the promos where billing it as Foreigner in one way or another so the fans thought Mick was going to be there too. Lou was hot and got on it right away and it was taken care of.
It's abvious that not all fans of music know as much as we do here. I find this true via people I talk to at shows. A lot of people do rely on info from media, whatever form it may be in.

On a side note. I think it's easier for us as fans to let this stuff go when we see that the current members have. JY has a right to speak his mind just as we do, but it just doesn't help any of the matters.

[styxfanNH]

Last Winter after Ricky joined the band, I had emailed management about venues using outdated pictures as well as VH1.com, Rollingstone.com, and Ticketmaster.com. They had said that they had sent updated pics to all the outlets, but for one reason or another they hadn't updated them. Even today, Rolling Stone still features a pic of Dennis and Tommy from Kilroy. The same is true right now if you go to the Reno Hilton site, only they are showing a pic of Tommy, JY, Glen, and Todd as the band.

Advertising is usually left to the regional promoter. I don't believe the band has much to do with it. I agree with you that today, any song that features Dennis as lead singer shouldn't be used - especially seeing there is more than enough material around with the last lineup that more than resembles the band as it is today, post Burtnik. I know I cringe every time I see what are clearly Dennis' songs being featured as songs of Styx, inferring they will hear them in concert.

I can understand the issues in promotion around 1999 - as both sides were still trying to figure out what was happening with the band and there was no prerecorded music of the lineup then. But at that time they were playing a lot more of Dennis's songs than they are now. Hopefully its getting better.

I agree with you that the Beach Boys thing is a hoax. And I agree with you that if Tommy decided to do other things - JY would not continue with the name of Styx. Foreigner without Lou Gramm is not Foreigner, and at this point The Eagles wouldn't be the Eagles without Henley, Frey or Walsh.

To some point, I think that with three lead singers - you just have fans of each of them and the varying song writing styles. Dennis wrote great ballads, JY wrote great hard edge stuff, and tommy bridged the gap in between. Also the fact that all three singers voices were distinctively different than the others really made their songs stick out from the others without really encroaching on the others. If Styx had only one lead singer, things would be much different if he left. But with the three, the dynamics are different.

[piecesofeight]

JY would not continue with the name of Styx.

To some point, I think that with three lead singers - you just have fans of each of them and the varying song writing styles. Dennis wrote great ballads, JY wrote great hard edge stuff, and tommy bridged the gap in between. Also the fact that all three singers voices were distinctively different than the others really made their songs stick out from the others without really encroaching on the others. If Styx had only one lead singer, things would be much different if he left. But with the three, the dynamics are different.

I believe you are correct. I don't think that JY would continue so the fans wouldn't have to decide.
That has always been the one big difference then with other bands who have lost lead singer. Styx had more than one main singer although Dennis is still referred to many times as 'the former lead singer of Styx.' I think it's just because more of his songs got played. Styx has proven they can okay when Tommy or Dennis are missing because each one of these guys are very talented. I believe Styx was so popular because there was something written for every kind of music fan.