Gowan vs DeYoung

[classicstyxfan]

1. A couple of questions for y'all, some based off of answers in the "One Question" thread, but I wanted to bring them here instead of changing that subject.

There are more than a few here, and of course JY, who have made the statement that Gowan is superior ( and some say by a large amount ) to DeYoung in regards to talent on the keyboards. What I haven't heard , is anyone pointing to specific work by either of these guys that demonstrates this....can anyone help me out with here? I've never heard any cut by Styx or Dennis ( Studio or live ) where I could detect any drag or pull on the tempo, or any notes that stuck out because they just didnt belong.....In fact, I always thought the keyboard parts sounded great.

Point me in the direction of something to listen to that demonstrates or backs up this opinion. Dont get me wrong, Gowan's playing on Cyclorama sounds fine to me, but not really superior to DeYoung's work to my obviously untrained ear......

And this for Abitman / Eric.....Past "A criminal Mind" and the 2 cuts on Cyclorama, I admit to not being very familiar with Gowan's Writing...Please provide me a list of 10 Gowan songs I should give a closer listen to that are nearly as well written as:

Lady
Come Sail Away
Castle Walls
Rockin In Paradise
Pieces of Eight
Queen Of Spades
The Grand Illusion
Suite Madame Blue
Born For Adventure
Father O.S.A.

I am missing out on something REALLY GOOD if your assessment is correct !

-Classic

[froy]

[quote="classicstyxfan"]1. A couple of questions for y'all, some based off of answers in the "One Question" thread, but I wanted to bring them here instead of changing that subject.

There are more than a few here, and of course JY, who have made the statement that Gowan is superior ( and some say by a large amount ) to DeYoung in regards to talent on the keyboards. What I haven't heard , is anyone pointing to specific work by either of these guys that demonstrates this....can anyone help me out with here? I've never heard any cut by Styx or Dennis ( Studio or live ) where I could detect any drag or pull on the tempo, or any notes that stuck out because they just didnt belong.....In fact, I always thought the keyboard parts sounded great.

Point me in the direction of something to listen to that demonstrates or backs up this opinion. Dont get me wrong, Gowan's playing on Cyclorama sounds fine to me, but not really superior to DeYoung's work to my obviously untrained ear......

And this for Abitman / Eric.....Past "A criminal Mind" and the 2 cuts on Cyclorama, I admit to not being very familiar with Gowan's Writing...Please provide me a list of 10 Gowan songs I should give a closer listen to that are nearly as well written as:

Lady
Come Sail Away
Castle Walls
Rockin In Paradise
Pieces of Eight
Queen Of Spades
The Grand Illusion
Suite Madame Blue
Born For Adventure
Father O.S.A.

I am missing out on something REALLY GOOD if your assessment is correct !

-Classic[/quote



No offence but Gowan is a fill in
He does not deserve this comparison
When he has to sing a beatle cover to get on the radio
He loses all respect.

[bugsymalone]

I have always felt that Dennis ranks in the top tier of any classic rock/progressive rock keyboardists. His right hand speed is phenomenal and I defy anyone to match that. And by that I don’t mean just the blazing speed, but you can hear the individual notes that are MEANT to be heard. It is not just a mush of speed for speed’s sake playing.

As to overall abilities on the keyboard, I think Dennis would be the first to admit his left hand skills are not as proficient as other great keyboard players. He did not really start on keyboards until he was in his mid-twenties, by his own admission.

The only exposure I have had to Gowan’s playing are a couple of televised live performances, and I saw nothing that was any better or any worse than most keyboard players out there. I have never heard any of his solo work, so I cannot judge there.( That said, I did see a lot of dopey keyboard antics by Gowan that do nothing but look stupid --- but that is my opinion on that)

I think what one of Dennis’ greatest abilities was to play awesome keyboards live – often going above and beyond what he did on the studio recordings. He didn’t need a spinning keyboard to impress me. He did that by skill alone.

Bugsy

[yogi]

Live, Gowan is AWESOME!!!. He is though playing mostly Styx songs. Outside of 'Criminal Mind' his solo work is unlistenable. I own 2 of his CD's including his Greatest Hits. The songs are pure torture.

Still, with that said, he is a GREAT keyboard player, live he is FANTASTIC, and he does a very good job vocally singing DDY's songs. He also did a GREAT job on Cyclorama, but he's NO DDY!!!!

[classicstyxfan]

Well, so far no ones offered anything that's convinced me there's even an argument here....

Perhaps it is simply a matter of ones personal taste ? It does get under my skin a little to have Gowans overall proficiency on Keyboards touted over DDY's, when there is little concrete evidence offered to prove the point.

If anyone out ther can offer evidence , I'm still waiting......

[bugsymalone]

It does get under my skin a little to have Gowans overall proficiency on Keyboards touted over DDY's, when there is little concrete evidence offered to prove the point.

If anyone out ther can offer evidence , I'm still waiting......

Me too, Classic. Me too.

Bugsy

[ek88]

It does get under my skin a little to have Gowans overall proficiency on Keyboards touted over DDY's, when there is little concrete evidence offered to prove the point.

But JY said so!!! What more evidence do you need?

[Abitaman]

I posted a reply earlier but it is not showing, I was for Classicstyx fan, and it was a vey long post, but I am not going to redo it again. Lets just say, I am a classic styx fan myself and the Dennis, Tommy, JY version will always be the true Styx.
Dennis is a beter writer, and blows Larry out of the water vocaly. But "in concert" Larry beats Dennis. And that is what my comments were about in the other thread. HAving seen all versions, except the J.C. version, I can say this.
There is nothing wrong with Dennis's playing, nothing. But having seen Larry 6 times since 99, Larry actually runs circles around Dennis on the keys. Plus stands, on them jumps on them, plays them backwards. And he has not goofed up. Larry is amore in your face player than Dennis, and Dennis is more laid back.
On cd Dennis is probably better just because I like him better(his playing, writing, and SINGING), and I only have about 20 songs of Larry to go by. Nothing wrong with Larry's songs!, but they are not Dennis!!!!!!
Anyway maybe my other post will pop up. But its just my thoughts, and I think Larry does a better job of enteraining people on the keys (not singing, or being goofy, or singing) than Dennis-ERIC

[classicstyxfan]

Eric,

thanks for the Clarification..too bad your longer post went down a black hole, sounds as though it would have been enlightening.

I hope you didnt take my post as a personal attack......I was just a bit surprised that you felt Gowan compared to DDY as a songwriter.......if indeed you felt that way, I was interested in taking a closer look to see if his catalog is as overlooked/underrated as it would have to be if it were of that quality. Aside of Andrew ( and just recently ) not many here have had much to say about his solo work.

[styxfanNH]

They both add to this band.

When JY refers to Gowan as being a better technical player than Dennis, I believe he is referring to the fact that he went to the Royal Conservatory of Music (http://www.rcmexaminations.org/). I am not sure whether DDY went to a similar school or not, perhaps someone can help me out here, but I think Dennis pretty much learned to play himself or was taught by a regular piano teacher. The RCM part usually gets cut off in more recent interviews.

Dennis definitely has better range than Gowan. Gowan does an adequate job an Dennis' songs.

I don't think any song written by either of them actually shows their ability to play or their best piano playing work. Each is part of an ensemble of musicians that everyone's work takes a backseat at one point in every song. While I prefer Dennis's writing style, I have no issues with Larry's writing style.

Larry is a better entertainer while Dennis is more laid back when he is on stage. (Or at least he was when I saw him in pre 96) Whether it is because of the larger keyboard setup that Dennis had to bring with him because of the era and Larry's is much more streamlined as he uses technology on his keyboard or not has always be unanswered. Tommy has said that Larry wanted to make sure they kept true to the keyboard sounds Dennis used and actually bought the old keyboards and sampled them for his keyboard in order to keep true to the sound of the songs.
It's hard to compare their stage presence because they have taken on different roles.

For those that criticize the choreography on Kilroy. They are musicians, not dancers and it was the creation was Dennis'.

I would think that we would all prefer to have Dennis at the keyboard helm if for no other reason the musical imprint he has had on the band. Dennis is a part of the lineup that created what we all would probably agree is Styx. That doesn't mean that Gowan doesn't have his place on the band now and can't try to move the band forward in whatever role he is being asked to take.

I prefer to have Dennis, but am happy with Gowans presence .

[Abitaman]

At the risk of sounding like John Kerry , I want to change what I said about Dennis and Larry being on the same writing level. I am not taking away from Larry, I just upping Dennis' skill. Larry has writen some good songs ( send me a blank cd and I'll burn you some), and some bad, just like Dennis. BUT Larry has no Come Sail Away, Babe, Best of Times, Suite Madame Blue, etcc... Dennis had gotten alittle lazy lately, and I guess I was judging Larry to him now. Larry songs are like early Styx, but they are missing something? Dennis! Really Larry is talented, and I think for Styx LArry is a better ROCK performer. I like the antics and running keys. Larry fights to be seen in the band, where Dennis sat back and knew he was the band.
So I had to rethink things, Dennis 2 Larry 1 -ERIC

[classicstyxfan]

John Kerry never flip flopped on ANYTHING ! ( just ask him, he'll tell you so.......)


Q: What's the difference between Vietnam and Iraq ?

A: George W. had a plan to get out of the war in Vietnam.........

Don't forget to vote !

[yogi]

George W. came up with 'No Child Gets Left behind' after watching the movie 'Home Alone'!!!!!

[Jimmy]

First off I would like to say your very very uninformed if you think ddy is a better singer than gowan. You obviously know nothing about music, ddy is a little idiot who wrote some great songs but some very bad and sappy ones too. Gowan has a far larger vocal range and he can sing rock songs and ballads, unlike ddy. As far as the light sickness goes, there is no proof of that ever happening, ddy is a liar and a horrible person to work with. He has no stage presence whatsoever, Gowan is the greatest frontman of all time. He pays and sings circles around ddy. ddy knows gowan is much more talented
than he himself is and has commented to gowan that he would like to break his fingers. DDy is a good singer, pianist and a great song writer but gowan is a rockstar and ddy is a crooner. Gowan is way better there's no contest. The band is way better than it has ever been. If you see a concert you will see the piano solo segment and know Gowan is the greatest pianist of all time, and ddy is a poser.

please e-mail me to discuss this further at mickeymousekilledminnie@hotmail.com

[pinkfloyd1973]

First off I would like to say your very very uninformed if you think ddy is a better singer than gowan. You obviously know nothing about music, ddy is a little idiot who wrote some great songs but some very bad and sappy ones too. Gowan has a far larger vocal range and he can sing rock songs and ballads, unlike ddy. As far as the light sickness goes, there is no proof of that ever happening, ddy is a liar and a horrible person to work with. He has no stage presence whatsoever, Gowan is the greatest frontman of all time. He pays and sings circles around ddy. ddy knows gowan is much more talented
than he himself is and has commented to gowan that he would like to break his fingers. DDy is a good singer, pianist and a great song writer but gowan is a rockstar and ddy is a crooner. Gowan is way better there's no contest. The band is way better than it has ever been. If you see a concert you will see the piano solo segment and know Gowan is the greatest pianist of all time, and ddy is a poser.

please e-mail me to discuss this further at mickeymousekilledminnie@hotmail.com

WOW Jimmy, your personal attack on DDY discredits you enough. While I think Larry is a very good keyboard player and a proficient singer, DDY will always be better. I like Criminal Mind and loved the version he did with the Canadian Rap Duo. I don't care much for Larry's spinning keyboard and can do without the antics onstage. Perhaps because i'm pretty much a purist is why I prefer Dennis, he's more laid back and relies solely on skill than dancing and spinning around a keyboard

Robin

[DerriD]

Wow,

Almost 2 years since the last post on that thread. Did it honestly take that long to craft that little gem? Just wait 'til daddy billy goat gruff comes along, he'll take care of you.

[Zan]

Did anyone happen to notice the "debuter's" emaill address? Methinks it's an attempt at satire.

[SuiteMadameBlue]

Did anyone happen to notice the "debuter's" emaill address? Methinks it's an attempt at satire.

Yes "ATTEMPT"!!!

Why can't these goofs just stay at the Journey board?? LOL (just kidding)

I should go back and bring up some older posts, there were some funny ones, especially with Froy's rants from a few years ago!! LOL

[styxfanNH]

I kinda like most of the journey board members that have come over recently. It's nice to have them.

[SuiteMadameBlue]

I kinda like most of the journey board members that have come over recently. It's nice to have them.

So do I.

It's more active over there since a lot of new members joined in the last couple of months.

Same stuff here!

[froy]

I should go back and bring up some older posts, there were some funny ones, especially with Froy's rants from a few years ago!! LOL

DO IT BABY DO IT ,

[Jodes]

ddy knows gowan is much more talented
than he himself is and has commented to gowan that he would like to break his fingers.
please e-mail me to discuss this further at mickeymousekilledminnie@hotmail.com

Okay, I'm a Dennis Fan and I am a Larry fan (was into Styx and Gowan at the same time) but after seeing DDY in Calgary a few weeks ago, I don't think I want to see Styx in it's current form live anymore, actually I haven't seen them live since 2003. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed Cyclorama, and liked some of BBT (Word to JY - Don't cover anymore Hendrix Tunes!) and look forward to hearing new music from them, but to see them in concert, I don't think so.

But that's not the reason why I'm posting.. this is:

Sorry, but I highly doubt that Dennis Deyoung would want to "break his fingers". Even though Dennis might be hard to work with, I can't see him wanting to do harm to anyone. My question to you is Where was this printed? When? What's your source?

Thank you.

[SuiteMadameBlue]

Jodes, Dennis never said that. There were a few articles/radio interviews in which Dennis talked very nice about Gowan. I never seen or heard Dennis say anything bad about Gowan. In fact, he really hasn't said anything really bad about any of the other boys in the band.

[Zan]

In fact, he really hasn't said anything really bad about any of the other boys in the band.

no comment

[styxfanNH]

Jodes, Dennis never said that. There were a few articles/radio interviews in which Dennis talked very nice about Gowan. I never seen or heard Dennis say anything bad about Gowan. In fact, he really hasn't said anything really bad about any of the other boys in the band.

Recently. or at least for quite a while. he's made a couple of barbs at Gowan, but nothing like what is being said by Jimmy.


Jodes, what's happen to the show at Red's? The Link from Dennis' site goes to a non existing web page and Ticketmaster no longer has it listed.

[SuiteMadameBlue]

In fact, he really hasn't said anything really bad about any of the other boys in the band.

no comment

I should've added in print or in interviews RECENTLY. I guess I'm just comparing to recent articles of other members, that's what I was thinking when I posted that in the middle of the night with no sleep.

[Zan]

In fact, he really hasn't said anything really bad about any of the other boys in the band.

no comment

I should've added in print or in interviews RECENTLY. I guess I'm just comparing to recent articles of other members, that's what I was thinking when I posted that in the middle of the night with no sleep.

Ok, ok. I'll let ya slide on this one.

[StyxCollector]

I agree early on and for quite awhile both sides threw mud over the fence quite often. Notice Tommy doesn't do many interviews anymore. JY is the 'voice' of Styx many times these days. Although there was a Tommy quote recently I read where he alluded to DDY in not the most positive light. Have to find the link.

DDY has certainly pretty much eliminated the rhetoric publicly, and even in his pre-"Come Sail Away" intro at every concert he doesn't take the lightly veiled stab anymore.

So I think for whatever reason DDY is taking the high road at this point, and it's about time. I wish both sides would. It would be less damaging to all parties.

For example - look at Glen and DDY playing together now. In the past, I'm sure DDY would have held a grudge because he played with JY & TS and has not always been as complimentary towards DDY in all of his comments. I know Glen very much respects Dennis, though, despite some of what he has said publicly over the years. As far as I know, DDY called Glen to get this train rolling.

It's definitely an interesting time for Styx fans at this point, since there's nowhere to go but up, right?

[Jodes]

Allan, according to Glen it was Dennis's manager, not Dennis himself that got the ball a rolling. I think that's the kind of guy that Glen is though, just burying the hatchet and letting it all be about the music.

But at the Calgary show, Dennis introduces Glen as "A Former Styx member from 90-92, then he was in Styx again for 4 years until a couple years ago and now he's playing with me, back where he belongs". So take that as you see fit.

As for the Edmonton show NH, well it was cancelled in early June. Reason being (which I discussed on here) was that Edmonton was in the midst of Stanley Cup fever and EVERYBODY was glued to their TV's or in bars, not going to concerts. Dennis realized that they couldn't compete with that (It had been 16 years since the Oilers had been there) so they moved it now to Saturday November 4th because he did want to play here.

Also, the venue Reds has changed names since the Mall bought it. It's called "Ed's" now, and I'm sure they will have a website up and running soon.

The Radio station says he is still coming back.. I'm sure they will start selling tickets in the fall.

[StyxCollector]

Allan, according to Glen it was Dennis's manager, not Dennis himself that got the ball a rolling. I think that's the kind of guy that Glen is though, just burying the hatchet and letting it all be about the music.

It semantics at that point whether Dennis told his manager to do it, Dennis called himself, or his manager did it and then told Dennis. I agree that Glen is, as we say, a mensch.

But at the Calgary show, Dennis introduces Glen as "A Former Styx member from 90-92, then he was in Styx again for 4 years until a couple years ago and now he's playing with me, back where he belongs". So take that as you see fit.

He didn't do it that way at either show in NJ, but glad to see Dennis is not saying "those guys" or some crap like that.