OT - Standing at the political crossroads

[strangegrey]

Well, I'll spare you the background, but the Obama thread has me thinking...

As a card carrying republican, I found myself on the morning of super tuesday, pissed off that I would not be able to vote in the democratic primary. Not for the reasons that you'd think a republican would want to contribute (i.e. spoiling), but because I felt that I could contribute to the process. Go fucking figure. A republican wanting to log a vote in a democrat primary!

The fact of the matter is that, while I remain conservative on some issues, I've been changing my views on alot of things recently.

I no longer support this war. I did at one point...when I felt that it was justified. That was before George Bush started using 9/11 as an unlimited credit card in a candy store. After government kickback contracts in iraq, numerous reshifting of wartime focus, oil, not catching osama but catching saddam first (a whole war/country later), stripping of civil liberties via the patriot act, the erection of the most bloated, useless government beaurocracy ever, the TSA, etc. I wised up. Yeah, 911 made it quite easy for Dubya to do ALOT of damage....and I didn't even touch upon the piles of shit he left in every country he forced this Iraq War on.

I no longer support conservative fiscal policy. While Deficit spending certainly helps kick start an economy, the way George Bush and the fed have been irresponsibly jockeying interest rates, spending, tax cuts....it's a miracle we're not in a full fledged depression right now. Unfortunately, while Bush has been ass fucking this economy for 8 years, me, my children and most likely, my grandchildren, will inherit a national debt that is the largest it's ever been. The difference is that this time, the guys holding the pink slip aren't even americans. Yes, today's national debt is more foreign financed than ever. Hey, did I forget to mention that our dollar is so fucking weak that NYC stores are accepting euros!?!?!? WTF!!?!!! Sorry, it seems that when republicans get into the white house, they seem to fuck up the economy. For as much as I pissed and moaned about Clinton, when he was getting sucked off, I was making good money!

I could go on, but why fucking bore you people. The fact of the matter is that the two major issues that I most care about...this war and this economy, have been fucked up by the republicans....and I'm no longer willing to ride the boat with these irresponsible assholes.

I might not be entirely fit for duty on the democrat party's ship....but I'm willing to give it a go for 4 years and see what happens. I'm certainly not going to ride on any boat with John McCain steering the ship!

Fuck that! Unless something very strange happens between now and Nov, I'm pulling a fucking lever for Hillary or Obama.

[Granny]

good job, Frank, stating everything so simply and to the point....true on every issue!

[Voyager]

Well, I'll spare you the background, but the Obama thread has me thinking...

As a card carrying republican, I found myself on the morning of super tuesday, pissed off that I would not be able to vote in the democratic primary.

Not me - I jumped off the Republican bandwagon and voted for Obama. Eight years of George W. Bush turned me into a Moderate.

I might not be entirely fit for duty on the democrat party's ship....but I'm willing to give it a go for 4 years and see what happens. I'm certainly not going to ride on any boat with John McCain steering the ship!

Fuck that! Unless something very strange happens between now and Nov, I'm pulling a fucking lever for Hillary or Obama.

Go for it! I can tell you from experience that it felt fucking great!!!

[strangegrey]

Well, I'll spare you the background, but the Obama thread has me thinking...

As a card carrying republican, I found myself on the morning of super tuesday, pissed off that I would not be able to vote in the democratic primary.

Not me - I jumped off the Republican bandwagon and voted for Obama. Eight years of George W. Bush turned me into a Moderate.

AFAIK, The election laws in NY prevent me from making a quick switch. I can change party affiliation, however, it would take at least a year or two before the affiliation became effective. At this stage, it doesn't matter, since in november, I could vote for anyone. But in primary elections in NY State, you can only vote within your party membership.

[Rockindeano]

There are about 25 million other republicans writing this same letter.

Welcome aboard buddy.

Just look the other way when two guys makeout. Not too hard to do.

[Voyager]

AFAIK, The election laws in NY prevent me from making a quick switch. I can change party affiliation, however, it would take at least a year or two before the affiliation became effective. At this stage, it doesn't matter, since in november, I could vote for anyone. But in primary elections in NY State, you can only vote within your party membership.

That's what I figured after reading your post. Fortunately for me, I was able to switch parties in Illinois.

[strangegrey]

There are about 25 million other republicans writing this same letter.

Welcome aboard buddy.

Well, just to clarify, I'm not simply jumping the bandwagon.....regardless, Thank you for the wecome!

Just look the other way when two guys makeout. Not too hard to do.

Oh man, you just ruined it all for me!

[Voyager]

There are about 25 million other republicans writing this same letter.

Welcome aboard buddy.

Just look the other way when two guys makeout. Not too hard to do.

LOL! Or just don't worry about becoming gay if you sit next to a gay man or woman (which many right-wingers are scared of).

[Andrew]

Good old George W has doubled the price of my gas (and that goes for every citizen on earth...nice one!!) and through his destroying of the US economy, has altered the currency exchange rates so much that I am working for 25% less than I was 2 or 3 years ago.

Thanks George!

[Rockindeano]

Good old George W has doubled the price of my gas (and that goes for every citizen on earth...nice one!!) and through his destroying of the US economy, has altered the currency exchange rates so much that I am working for 25% less than I was 2 or 3 years ago.

Thanks George!

I would laugh, but he fucked up our own dollar, which is now behind the Canadian dollar!

Just be happy that sonafabitch Cheney isn't running!

[7 Wishes]

I voted for Bush I twice and I would do it again. He was a great diplomat with sound fiscal policy, and he knew how to reach across borders and cultures.

He and Clinton have become very close friends over the years - I guarantee Senior spends more time with Bill than he does his idiot son.

[Rockindeano]

41 sucked ass as well. Bill had to clean his shit up.

[Voyager]

Good old George W has doubled the price of my gas (and that goes for every citizen on earth...nice one!!) and through his destroying of the US economy, has altered the currency exchange rates so much that I am working for 25% less than I was 2 or 3 years ago.

Thanks George!

I personally think George W. Bush deserves a worse fate than that of Suddam Hussein. And to think that that our Congress impeached Bill Clinton just for getting his cock sucked. WTF is wrong with this country???

Hey Andrew, know of any decent vacant housing in Australia? I'm about ready to move my Internet business and my family to the land down under. I'm disgusted with our government! Hopefully Obama (or Clinton) will fix it, and fast!!!

[7 Wishes]

41 sucked ass as well. Bill had to clean his shit up.

I think Clinton was cleaning up the mess from overspending under Carter and Reagan for 12 years. Bush had three great years and one shit year at election time.

[G.I.Jim]

41 sucked ass as well. Bill had to clean his shit up.

I love you man (In a hetrosexual kind of way of course ) I'm turning over a new leaf as of tonight.

I read Rick's post earlier, and he's right! I've been getting myself all worked up over these political debates, and was willing (almost) to sign off of here permanently.

I've made several friends in here over the last couple of years, and I think it's pretty damn stupid to throw friendships away because of something as stupid as politics!

Most of us in here have our own beliefs of what's good for this country politically, and people from the other side of the spectrum aren't going to change eachother's opinions or beliefs.

I've come to realize this and ultimately, it's more about the frinedships and sharing musical ideas and thoughts in here than anything else. I really appreciate all of you who have been a friend to me in here, and hope to continue our friendship. I also hope to get to know several of you that I haven't really got to know yet.

Hopefully this didn't come off TOO gay (No offense Bobby ), but I just think I've been an ass on here lately, and am going to make an effort to police my own actions.

Peace out!

[Voyager]

I've made several friends in here over the last couple of years, and I think it's pretty damn stupid to throw friendships away because of something as stupid as politics!

Most of us in here have our own beliefs of what's good for this country politically, and people from the other side of the spectrum aren't going to change eachother's opinions or beliefs.

I've come to realize this and ultimately, it's more about the frinedships and sharing musical ideas and thoughts in here than anything else.

You're right - screw the politics! If our country goes to hell in a handbasket, at least we can rock out together on "Still They Ride" on the downhill ride!

[G.I.Jim]

I've made several friends in here over the last couple of years, and I think it's pretty damn stupid to throw friendships away because of something as stupid as politics!

Most of us in here have our own beliefs of what's good for this country politically, and people from the other side of the spectrum aren't going to change eachother's opinions or beliefs.

I've come to realize this and ultimately, it's more about the frinedships and sharing musical ideas and thoughts in here than anything else.

You're right - screw the politics! If our country goes to hell in a handbasket, at least we can rock out together on "Still They Ride" on the downhill ride!

Are you being serious, or are you messing with me? If you're being a smart-ass, it's nothing for me to whip you're...Oh yeah, I'm going to play nice from now on! Never mind!!!

[Voyager]

I've made several friends in here over the last couple of years, and I think it's pretty damn stupid to throw friendships away because of something as stupid as politics!

Most of us in here have our own beliefs of what's good for this country politically, and people from the other side of the spectrum aren't going to change eachother's opinions or beliefs.

I've come to realize this and ultimately, it's more about the frinedships and sharing musical ideas and thoughts in here than anything else.

You're right - screw the politics! If our country goes to hell in a handbasket, at least we can rock out together on "Still They Ride" on the downhill ride!

Are you being serious, or are you messing with me? If you're being a smart-ass, it's nothing for me to whip you're...Oh yeah, I'm going to play nice from now on! Never mind!!!

Partly agreeing with you and partly trying to toss a little humor into what can sometimes be a contentious debate.

[Andrew]

Good old George W has doubled the price of my gas (and that goes for every citizen on earth...nice one!!) and through his destroying of the US economy, has altered the currency exchange rates so much that I am working for 25% less than I was 2 or 3 years ago.

Thanks George!

I would laugh, but he fucked up our own dollar, which is now behind the Canadian dollar!

That's what I mean...all my business is in US dollars. What's left of the $ that is!

[conversationpc]

I no longer support conservative fiscal policy. While Deficit spending certainly helps kick start an economy, the way George Bush and the fed have been irresponsibly jockeying interest rates, spending, tax cuts....it's a miracle we're not in a full fledged depression right now. Unfortunately, while Bush has been ass fucking this economy for 8 years, me, my children and most likely, my grandchildren, will inherit a national debt that is the largest it's ever been. The difference is that this time, the guys holding the pink slip aren't even americans. Yes, today's national debt is more foreign financed than ever. Hey, did I forget to mention that our dollar is so fucking weak that NYC stores are accepting euros!?!?!? WTF!!?!!! Sorry, it seems that when republicans get into the white house, they seem to fuck up the economy. For as much as I pissed and moaned about Clinton, when he was getting sucked off, I was making good money!

The reason for the increase in the debt is because Bush has backed spending plans that make liberals proud.

I might not be entirely fit for duty on the democrat party's ship....but I'm willing to give it a go for 4 years and see what happens. I'm certainly not going to ride on any boat with John McCain steering the ship!

Fuck that! Unless something very strange happens between now and Nov, I'm pulling a fucking lever for Hillary or Obama.

I'm with you on McCain. He's as much of a political opportunist as anyone in either the Republican or Democratic party. There's no way I'm voting for that dude even if it means Obama or Hillary being elected.

[ohsherrie]

Great post Frank. I'm very surprised that nobody demanded links and sources to back up your allegations of Bush's deceit and fiscal ineptitude though. (If they do let me know. I've got a bunch. )

The reason for the increase in the debt is because Bush has backed spending plans that make liberals proud

Such as?

[conversationpc]

Great post Frank. I'm very surprised that nobody demanded links and sources to back up your allegations of Bush's deceit and fiscal ineptitude though. (If they do let me know. I've got a bunch. )

Yeah, requesting supporting evidence is just really over the top, isn't it?

The reason for the increase in the debt is because Bush has backed spending plans that make liberals proud

Such as?

The medicare prescription debacle is one huge example.

[Rocker Chic]

<snip> I could go on, but why fucking bore you people. The fact of the matter is that the two major issues that I most care about...this war and this economy, have been fucked up by the republicans....and I'm no longer willing to ride the boat with these irresponsible assholes.

I might not be entirely fit for duty on the democrat party's ship....but I'm willing to give it a go for 4 years and see what happens. I'm certainly not going to ride on any boat with John McCain steering the ship!

Fuck that! Unless something very strange happens between now and Nov, I'm pulling a fucking lever for Hillary or Obama.

I'm with you on this, Frank! My husband used to hang on Dubbya's every word as if he was the second coming. He thought he was the greatest. Lately, my husband's been really quiet about things and has been slowly coming to the Dark Side, so to speak.

I've been a Democrat since I was registered for one very important reason: I am a woman and want to be sure that I support a woman's right to choose what to do with her own body. I don't want the government coming into my doctor's offfice any more than I want them in my church. I always try to vote in the Democratic primaries so that I can add my support to whomever I feel the best candidate is.

May the best man or woman win the Whitehouse!

Debbie

[ohsherrie]

Great post Frank. I'm very surprised that nobody demanded links and sources to back up your allegations of Bush's deceit and fiscal ineptitude though. (If they do let me know. I've got a bunch. )

Yeah, requesting supporting evidence is just really over the top, isn't it?

The reason for the increase in the debt is because Bush has backed spending plans that make liberals proud

Such as?

The medicare prescription debacle is one huge example.

If the reps had allowed it to be done the way the Dems wanted it wouldn't have been a debacle or as expensive in the long run. It's the expensive mess that it is because Dumbya and had to make sure his special interest insurance companies got their cut of it.

[conversationpc]

If the reps had allowed it to be done the way the Dems wanted it wouldn't have been a debacle or as expensive in the long run. It's the expensive mess that it is because Dumbya and had to make sure his special interest insurance companies got their cut of it.

The special interest angle is a red herring as far as arguing about either party. The Dems are just as deep in the pockets of their special interests as the Republicans are. That's why there's such a huge problem with overspending, kickbacks, and earmarks (which surprisingly has continued with the Democratically-controlled congress...imagine that ).

[ohsherrie]

If the reps had allowed it to be done the way the Dems wanted it wouldn't have been a debacle or as expensive in the long run. It's the expensive mess that it is because Dumbya and had to make sure his special interest insurance companies got their cut of it.

The special interest angle is a red herring as far as arguing about either party. The Dems are just as deep in the pockets of their special interests as the Republicans are. That's why there's such a huge problem with overspending, kickbacks, and earmarks (which surprisingly has continued with the Democratically-controlled congress...imagine that ).

I didn't say special interest favoring didn't happen in both parties,(although the amount and nature differs) but we were specifically discussing the Medicare Prescription Plan debacle.

[conversationpc]

If the reps had allowed it to be done the way the Dems wanted it wouldn't have been a debacle or as expensive in the long run. It's the expensive mess that it is because Dumbya and had to make sure his special interest insurance companies got their cut of it.

The special interest angle is a red herring as far as arguing about either party. The Dems are just as deep in the pockets of their special interests as the Republicans are. That's why there's such a huge problem with overspending, kickbacks, and earmarks (which surprisingly has continued with the Democratically-controlled congress...imagine that ).

I didn't say special interest favoring didn't happen in both parties,(although the amount and nature differs) but we were specifically discussing the Medicare Prescription Plan debacle.

But you brought up the special interest angle, so it's fair game, no?

[ohsherrie]

If the reps had allowed it to be done the way the Dems wanted it wouldn't have been a debacle or as expensive in the long run. It's the expensive mess that it is because Dumbya and had to make sure his special interest insurance companies got their cut of it.

The special interest angle is a red herring as far as arguing about either party. The Dems are just as deep in the pockets of their special interests as the Republicans are. That's why there's such a huge problem with overspending, kickbacks, and earmarks (which surprisingly has continued with the Democratically-controlled congress...imagine that ).

I didn't say special interest favoring didn't happen in both parties,(although the amount and nature differs) but we were specifically discussing the Medicare Prescription Plan debacle.

But you brought up the special interest angle, so it's fair game, no?

I didn't say we couldn't talk about it, but I don't want to cloud the issue of why the Medicare Prescription Plan is a fiasco with it.

You brought that up as an example of the reps spending like libs and that was clearly not a good example because they didn't do it at all like the Dems would have. The reason they didn't is because the insurance industry is a republican special interest. In fact, during one of the Bush/Gore debates when asked about health care Bush said plainly and bluntly that he was not going to do anything to hurt any insurance companies.

[Barb]

Monday Feb 11, 2008

General Election: McCain vs. Clinton Rasmussen (Mon) McCain 45, Clinton 43, Und 12

General Election: McCain vs. Obama Rasmussen (Mon) McCain 40, Obama 44, Und 16

General Election: McCain vs. Clinton USA Today/Gallup McCain 49, Clinton 48, Und 3

General Election: McCain vs. Obama USA Today/Gallup McCain 46, Obama 50, Und 4

General Election: McCain vs. Clinton AP-Ipsos McCain 45, Clinton 46, Und 7

General Election: McCain vs. Obama AP-Ipsos McCain 42, Obama 48, Und 8

That is pretty damn interesting! I expect more tears from Hillary - I think she's toast. Obama has the momentum and the excitement and if the Dem establishment feels he can actually beat McCain, he's the nominee.

[Rockindeano]

The Clinton Campaign has Texas, Ohio and Pennsylvania. Their math shows if they get those 3, and they expect too, and win big, they will have enough to win.

The GOP's worst nightmare is a Clinton/Obama ticket, and if they stay close, they will have to unite and be a ticket.

Those polls will widen, a lot. I see a 60-40 Dem win. This won't be close.