Arnel and the Doomsayer's Ball

[Natalie]

you dont wanna know. just let it go. I have been partying it up tonight....

OH NO!! Are you going to be confessing another man crush here soon?????

not a mancrush....maybe a Natalie crush......

WHOA!! Careful there big guy....jrnyfan86 won't like that!!!!!!!!!!

[ScarabGator]

you dont wanna know. just let it go. I have been partying it up tonight....

OH NO!! Are you going to be confessing another man crush here soon?????

not a mancrush....maybe a Natalie crush......

WHOA!! Careful there big guy....jrnyfan86 won't like that!!!!!!!!!!

hell with him. I'd kick his ass.

[stevew2]

Boiigggggggg

[ScarabGator]

Boiigggggggg

what he said.

[Natalie]

I don't even know what that means. It looks like stevew2 fell asleep and hit his head on his keyboard.

[corncob]

I don't even know what that means. It looks like stevew2 fell asleep and hit his head on his keyboard.

the guy's hammered (as usual), 'am not surprised.....

[RebornJrny]

Boiigggggggg

what he said.

I think he's jackin off and press these letters

[Natalie]

Boiigggggggg

what he said.

I think he's jackin off and press these letters

I tend to have that effect on people...what can I say????

[Monker]

strangegrey,

Let's suppose that prime Steve Perry is the 100%.
I've already supposed Arnel is 90%.

Fuck Steve Perry.

Going out and finding somebody to imatate him on stage and on album was an incredibly stupid decision. As you admint above, it can't be done.

It's as stupid as going out and finding somebody who sounds very little like Steve Perry, like JSS, and having him sing these same songs.

Both are stupid decisions. They are opposite sides of the failure coin.

As I have said before, they are still trying to replace Augeri, not Perry. Augeri had a middle ground...he sounded enough like Perry to do these songs. But, not so much like him that he came from a tribute band, singing cover songs.

So, that is why I say this is going to fail. NO matter how good Arnel is, no matter how well he imitates Perry...hie still isn't Perry. Journey trying to imitate their sound from 198x is not taking them any place they have not already been.

[wednesday's child]

Well. okay, disregard Steve Perry.

What if, as seems reasonably possible, Journey builds a reasonably popular
catalog of new stuff with Arnel? We already know 'nel doesn't sound like Perry
on the new stuff. What if they manage a few new, recognizable hits via the
albums to come?

(I'm not going down the St. John road of metering Journey's success on chart
position and sales, I'm talking about songs that become fondly familiar to an audience,
or maybe even a generation or more.)

It can happen, and I'm fairly confident it will.

All the objection you're left with then, is the stigma that Arnel was once in a cover band.
(not a tribute band, but I do get what you're saying) I personally find nothing wrong
with cover/tribute bands, and feel that when the bulk of a legendary band's business
is essaying their old hits... they're partly their own tribute anyway.

A LOT of vocalists start off doing covers.
Was Perry --well okay, fuck him, as you say-- was Augeri an exception?
Arnel's just Neal's "next... new singer" (...something like that... LOL).
I was willing to lend Augeri an open ear, when he was dog-and-ponied in,
and I'm willing to give Arnel the same benefit.


wech.

[fightingilliniJRNY]

Fuck Steve Perry.

Going out and finding somebody to imatate him on stage and on album was an incredibly stupid decision. As you admint above, it can't be done.

It's as stupid as going out and finding somebody who sounds very little like Steve Perry, like JSS, and having him sing these same songs.

Both are stupid decisions. They are opposite sides of the failure coin.

As I have said before, they are still trying to replace Augeri, not Perry. Augeri had a middle ground...he sounded enough like Perry to do these songs. But, not so much like him that he came from a tribute band, singing cover songs.

So, that is why I say this is going to fail. NO matter how good Arnel is, no matter how well he imitates Perry...hie still isn't Perry. Journey trying to imitate their sound from 198x is not taking them any place they have not already been.

Have you heard the new music, Monker? I don't hear Perry in the new songs. I hear a great singer. On the re-records I hear Perry, but I think that's inevitable considering he sang them first.

[Monker]

Well. okay, disregard Steve Perry.

What if, as seems reasonably possible, Journey builds a reasonably popular
catalog of new stuff with Arnel? We already know 'nel doesn't sound like Perry
on the new stuff. What if they manage a few new, recognizable hits via the
albums to come?

That's BS. He's emulating Perry on the songs I've heard. he was specificaly hired because they wanted to return to their 'legacy sound'. At least that was one of the stoiries the band was telling.

As for the the new stuff and having 'popular catalog of new stuff' and 'recognizable hits', I don't think that will ever happen - no matter how good he is, or if they hired somebody else, or if they stuck with JSS. The new singer could be cloned from DNA obtained from Perry's mustache shavings in 1983, and it wouldn't matter.

All the objection you're left with then, is the stigma that Arnel was once in a cover band.
(not a tribute band, but I do get what you're saying) I personally find nothing wrong
with cover/tribute bands, and feel that when the bulk of a legendary band's business
is essaying their old hits... they're partly their own tribute anyway.

You asked why there are 'doomsayers', and I told you why...and then you dismiss the reasons. That's your fantasy you wish to live in. I know they will never have a platinum album or huge hit coming out on this album. It's no different then the people who always say Perry is going to make a big comeback. It's what you want, but there is very little chance that it will happen.

Was Perry --well okay, fuck him, as you say-- was Augeri an exception?
Arnel's just Neal's "next... new singer" (...something like that... LOL).
I was willing to lend Augeri an open ear, when he was dog-and-ponied in,
and I'm willing to give Arnel the same benefit.

And, I think fewer are. I think people were giving up on this band even before Augeri left. I think the JSS fiasco added to that...and I think Arnil did nothing to stop it. As I have said, Journey jumped the shark when they fired Augeri.

[Monker]

Have you heard the new music, Monker? I don't hear Perry in the new songs. I hear a great singer. On the re-records I hear Perry, but I think that's inevitable considering he sang them first.

Yes, I heard the two new singles. The 'rocker' one sounds like something from ROR which should have been on the album but Perry cut it. The ballad is a damn good song, but it's 20yrs too late. And, yes, it sounds like he is trying to emulate Perry...expecialy on the ROR song.

[fightingilliniJRNY]

Have you heard the new music, Monker? I don't hear Perry in the new songs. I hear a great singer. On the re-records I hear Perry, but I think that's inevitable considering he sang them first.

Yes, I heard the two new singles. The 'rocker' one sounds like something from ROR which should have been on the album but Perry cut it. The ballad is a damn good song, but it's 20yrs too late. And, yes, it sounds like he is trying to emulate Perry...expecialy on the ROR song.

Agree to disagree, I think.

[wednesday's child]

All the objection you're left with then, is the stigma that Arnel was once in a cover band.
(not a tribute band, but I do get what you're saying) I personally find nothing wrong
with cover/tribute bands, and feel that when the bulk of a legendary band's business
is essaying their old hits... they're partly their own tribute anyway.

You asked why there are 'doomsayers', and I told you why...and then you dismiss the reasons. That's your fantasy you wish to live in. I know they will never have a platinum album or huge hit coming out on this album. It's no different then the people who always say Perry is going to make a big comeback. It's what you want, but there is very little chance that it will happen.

I'm sorry if I came off "dismissing"your opinion.
It didn't make complete sense to me, and I tried to lay out why,
in the hope of understanding your opinion better.

Was Perry --well okay, fuck him, as you say-- was Augeri an exception?
Arnel's just Neal's "next... new singer" (...something like that... LOL).
I was willing to lend Augeri an open ear, when he was dog-and-ponied in,
and I'm willing to give Arnel the same benefit.

And, I think fewer are. I think people were giving up on this band even before Augeri left. I think the JSS fiasco added to that...and I think Arnil did nothing to stop it...

On that point we can agree.
It is in fact, in a context of realistic expectations that I spoke of reasonably-popular new songs.
Journey AREN'T going back to the stadium-filling, radio-ruling days of old.
In today's context, I'm talking about having new, recognizable material to tour with,
stuff good enough to retain or maybe even expand the remaining fan base,
until they all decide to invest in rocking chairs.


wech

[Magwheels]

Monker..buddy...I'm curious to know what you think could have been accomplished by these guys had they
just started something new(as in- not Journey) from day one when it was known Perry wasn't coming back. (this isn't about whether
or not they should have)

[Monker]

Monker..buddy...I'm curious to know what you think could have been accomplished by these guys had they
just started something new(as in- not Journey) from day one when it was known Perry wasn't coming back. (this isn't about whether
or not they should have)

Nobody can really answer that. The closest comparison is Bad English....and they did fairly well with that.

The bottom line was, is, and always well be, that Jonathan and (especialy) Neal wanted to do Journey again, even before TBF. Perry didn't, or couldn't, or aliens abducted him and he just wasn't around after TBF. Neal, Jonathan, and Ross going out and performing a set of live Journey songs as anything other then Journey would be a very, very, very dumb idea.

They didn't WANT to go out and create a 'new band', and they didn't have to.

[Rick]

Perry didn't, or couldn't, or aliens abducted him and he just wasn't around after TBF.

That's gotta be it!!! Would explain a lot.

[Magwheels]

Monker..buddy...I'm curious to know what you think could have been accomplished by these guys had they
just started something new(as in- not Journey) from day one when it was known Perry wasn't coming back. (this isn't about whether
or not they should have)

Nobody can really answer that. The closest comparison is Bad English....and they did fairly well with that.

The bottom line was, is, and always well be, that Jonathan and (especialy) Neal wanted to do Journey again, even before TBF. Perry didn't, or couldn't, or aliens abducted him and he just wasn't around after TBF. Neal, Jonathan, and Ross going out and performing a set of live Journey songs as anything other then Journey would be a very, very, very dumb idea.

They didn't WANT to go out and create a 'new band', and they didn't have to.

I used to always say they COULDN'T do it w/out Journey. With everything that's gone on though...makes me wonder if they'd actually done better going another route. Play some Journey tunes from time to time.

[wednesday's child]

Are you talking about NOT using the Journey name?

[Magwheels]

Are you talking about NOT using the Journey name?

Yep.

[wednesday's child]

I honesty think that would have been the route to go.
Best med/long-term plan at any rate, but what happened, happened.
It would have left the Journey 'brand' outside of controversy,
and certainly not raised so many barricades to a Perry comeback.

[Edit: sorry for the typos, but I'm pounding this out with a heavy bandage on the right wrist]

[strangegrey]

Steve A shot Steve P in the hip??

Dude, if you can't see that i was being quite sarcastic, you sir, are the drunk one!

[strangegrey]

strangegrey,

Let's suppose that prime Steve Perry is the 100%.
I've already supposed Arnel is 90%.

Then you need to switch from sterno fluid to H20, brother.

Sorry, bringing arnel even within 50% of Perry is like saying the schoolteachers chalk really does taste like Cheddar.

Listen, I've been one of the more anti-perry gunners around here. I think the guy, when it comes to doing the right thing, is on par with his former band mates Schon and Cain. He's fucked the pooch more than I care to comment...and I've got about as much respect for him as the pile of beagle dog poo that this fucking beagle mix dumped on my property 24 minutes ago.

But lets face facts here, arnel, while he sounds good on the new material, and timbre wise, bears an uncanny resemblance to Perry...vocally....is not half the singer Perry was.

For you to make such a bold claim, you are going to have to wait until the end of this tour....and pray arnel doesn't croak under the tour schedule....and then, you're going to have to wait another 5 years to see arnel keep up a similar schedule to perry between 78-83. Sorry.....It is downright silly to even suggest arnel be in the same ballpark as Perry until he's walked enough miles in Perry's shoes to boast the claim.

Until then, you can remain cautiously optimistic and inside, pray to death he lasts more than his supposed 3 year contract. If I were a betting man, I would put down a cool grand on Neal Schon claiming he was drunk through arnel's time and that he's really just a pro tools wiz!


Lay down the crack pipe....until Arnel proves himself with several tours, several multiplatinum albums and a fucking boatload of critical aclaim, he is unfit to lick the dogshit from Perry's cowboy boots. and let me continue to remind you...I am *not* one of the biggest Perry fans here....really.

This isnt the a case of pulling the sword from the stone. The guy fell ass backwards into a gig because his greaseball manager peppered youtube with videos. Until he PROVES himself....and I mean, really PROVES himself....he's just a fucking replacement singer...nothing more nothing less.


For all you know, in 6 months, he's going to be in Manila, doing a farewell gig with The Zoo...and he's going to bump into Kevin Cronin, who will appologize for hearing that he's been fired!

[fightingilliniJRNY]

For all you know, in 6 months, he's going to be in Manila, doing a farewell gig with The Zoo...and he's going to bump into Kevin Cronin, who will appologize for hearing that he's been fired!

Cronin in Manila...what's he doing there, trying to get some more material for his epic speeches in between songs?

[wednesday's child]

strangegrey,

Let's suppose that prime Steve Perry is the 100%.
I've already supposed Arnel is 90%.

Then you need to switch from sterno fluid to H20, brother.
Sorry, bringing arnel even within 50% of Perry is like saying the schoolteachers chalk really does taste like Cheddar.
{snip}
Lay down the crack pipe....until Arnel proves himself with several tours, several multiplatinum albums and a fucking boatload of critical aclaim,
he is unfit to lick the dogshit from Perry's cowboy boots. and let me continue to remind you...I am *not* one of the biggest Perry fans here....really.

Don't blow an artery just yet!
I said "suppose", just as I'd "supposed" 90: to make it easier to make the point.
As for how I'd really rate Arnel, given what little I've heard of him with Journey, well...
The threads were lost when Andrew transferred the forum database, but those might have informed you that
I am *not* one of the biggest Arnel fans here ...really. Took heat for it, too.

For all you know, in 6 months, he's going to be in Manila, doing a farewell gig with The Zoo...
and he's going to bump into Kevin Cronin, who will appologize for hearing that he's been fired!

Thatt'll be on YouTube, too.

[JrnySuxBalls]

Journey trying to imitate their sound from 198x is not taking them any place they have not already been.

Well said.

[Since 78]

So, that is why I say this is going to fail. NO matter how good Arnel is, no matter how well he imitates Perry...hie still isn't Perry. Journey trying to imitate their sound from 198x is not taking them any place they have not already been.

Then that will be good enough for me!!

[fightingilliniJRNY]

Journey trying to imitate their sound from 198x is not taking them any place they have not already been.

Well said.

Journey's first effort with a new singer was not going to be a new direction for the band. It simply wouldn't make sense. If the first album post-Augeri had been with JSS, it still would have sounded like Journey. It wouldn't have been Soul Sirkus, it wouldn't have been any sort of prog-rock (sorry ProgRocker). Who knows if they'll open things up a little on this next effort with Arnel. Even still, Journey's always going to sound like Journey. Maybe with a twist or two, but it's never going to be a total switch in directions. And it shouldn't be. They have a successful formula.

[ProgRocker53]

For all you know, in 6 months, he's going to be in Manila, doing a farewell gig with The Zoo...and he's going to bump into Kevin Cronin, who will appologize for hearing that he's been fired!

Cronin in Manila...what's he doing there, trying to get some more material for his epic speeches in between songs?

That damn Cronin's everywhere.

I ran into Cronin the other day actually, at the Coffee Central down by the Aaron's downtown. I came in to grab a sub and there he was with his new life partner, enjoying iced coffees with one another.